Disney finally Made Me Mad

[practicallyperfect77]

I don't think anyone wants to see the rides becoming FP+ only. It's distressing enough to see it happen on a few less crowded Meet and Greets. Honestly though, I think I'm going to reserve judgment. I had a lot of issues and distaste for the FP+ system and felt broken hearted as an AP in how our visits have had to change. But I've learned the benefits of it and how to work with it, and I don't have any current issues. For now, with the three meet and greets that are going to be FP+ only, I don't feel upset because I don't see that change affecting me or my child in a negative way. We don't do those M & Gs too often, and if we want to in the future I feel we will be able to without too much fuss. We can also see those characters elsewhere in standby. If this is the trend for all meet and greets, or all rides and attractions, well, I'll jump off that bridge when I get there, but for now, I think it's experimental, possibly to do with the queues or possibly for budget reasons, or possibly to test the new talking character technology. For now, I haven't seen anything to make me mad, just another change I have to learn to roll with.

The thing that makes me upset is that while I personally don't mind planning, I don't feel I can do a good job b/c the rules are always changing. I'm going with my sis and her fam in Oct. It's a once n done for them. Will we have a super wonder magical time even if this M&G is FP+ only....yes we will. But it still puts me on edge a little b/c I don't know what changes are in the pipeline.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

I'm glad you're willing to risk thousands of dollars to be a guinea pig. Others are not. I had 1 or 2 years left when I could take my daughter out of school for a week-long trip to Disney and they are being frittered away with them putzing around with a system I won't spend money on. And that makes me sad.

I feel the same way. Once they hit High School it is impossible to take them out and experience a low crowd vacation when FP- weren't even needed. We tavel during peak season now and I've experienced less attractions because of FP+.

Higher Standby Lines + Less FP = less time on attractions.

I actually think a fair number of people were starting to come around to the "cautiously optimistic" front once Disney added the 4th and subsequent FPs......... until this curve ball. And once again, it's not about Pooh.

At MK I think the fourth FP+ will work wonderfully because there are more than 1 or 2 headliners, but Epcot is glaring lacking in ride capacity.

Yeah Planogirl, no speaking unless spoken to first!

Or better yet, write a complaining post on people complaining.

If you're right, they will certainly change it. They aren't going to pay people to be dressed up (and their handlers) if no one is visiting. But I think a few months from now you'll find that Pooh FP+'s will be hard to get.

Yep, with Soarin, TT, and Illuminations all gone day of, as the only thing left for the fourth FP+ it will be hard to get.

It will be a manufactured demand to distract from very little options.

 

[2Tiggies]

Seems to me that a bunch of people had the ability to not get hysterical about the FP+ change WDW made, and adopt a wait and see attitude recognizing that any large scale change to a company's operations (or really ANY large scale project) has a degree of latitude to change, adapt, modify and improve as it rolls out, and that ultimately WDW wants happy and satisfied customers, and furthermore that they have had a very long history of being literally world class in providing entertainment options that produce said customers.

I was one of those initially with a wait and see attitude. At the time I had this upcoming trip booked but I figured things would get better. Yes, in certain respects things have come a long way from where they were a few months ago. But at the time thoughts of putting the thousands I'd invested in this vacation into Disney's coffers so I could pay rack rate to deal with their glitches and problems were a long way off in my mind. Once I'd paid my $2000+ for our flights which are non refundable, I had to commit to this trip. And suddenly there was a lot more at stake.

I accept that change brings teething problems. Poorly thought out and badly implemented change where new problems are stacked onto existing ones without solving the first issues before introducing even more changes does not draw out the same level of acceptance and tolerance from me. There is a vast difference between a voluntary test and a system titled 'test', but with nothing else to fall back on. Operational problems should not be the customer (or guest's) problem. That's all there is to it.

It boils down to this: My vacation is not a test. We make sacrifices daily throughout the year to get our vacation of choice. It's not there for someone else to play around with just to see if they can make it work in a way that suits them, without giving me the option to accept or decline the invitation to the trial.

While some may be convinced that Disney is looking for a way to enhance the guest experience, I see it more as Disney has designed a system to enhance its profits (nothing wrong with that) and now has to try and persuade the guest that this is what we want. So far they haven't sold it to me yet. They almost did when reports of the subsequent FP's proving quite successful started emerging ... and then they try find a way to cut something else out. Can't say I'm jumping up and down cheering them on just yet.

 

[PlutoMars]

The thing that makes me upset is that while I personally don't mind planning, I don't feel I can do a good job b/c the rules are always changing. I'm going with my sis and her fam in Oct. It's a once n done for them. Will we have a super wonder magical time even if this M&G is FP+ only....yes we will. But it still puts me on edge a little b/c I don't know what changes are in the pipeline.

What are your expectations for changes in the pipeline? Do you expect Disney to inform you of every idea they throw up on a whiteboard for discussion?

 

[JeremyGNJ]

The thing that makes me upset is that while I personally don't mind planning, I don't feel I can do a good job b/c the rules are always changing. I'm going with my sis and her fam in Oct. It's a once n done for them. Will we have a super wonder magical time even if this M&G is FP+ only....yes we will. But it still puts me on edge a little b/c I don't know what changes are in the pipeline.

Perhaps this is the plan. To make it so that no one can ever get the "most optimized" experience. If everything is always changing, at some point you just have to pick what looks good and go with it.

This is after all what they do with the parade FP+'s. Even if you're planning 60 days out, you cant get the parade passes. These FP+ only attractions might be according to a similar plan. (and that's why they're only available until the 24th)

 

[practicallyperfect77]

What are your expectations for changes in the pipeline? Do you expect Disney to inform you of every idea they throw up on a whiteboard for discussion?

Not at all. But I got burned in the Pop having MB only deal back in Dec so maybe that's where some of my frustration lies.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

What if....
They do this to all the restrooms
They do this to the parking lots
They do this at the waterparks
They do this at the QS restaurants
They do this for the parades

Yes, lets get outraged at everything that is POSSIBLE at WDW but not PROBABLE.

Besides, Disney's IT is too incompetent to make all this happen. It is amazing that their IT staff keeps the parks running...

Extremist examples doesn't negate the possibility of a ride becoming FP+

I just talked to IT and they did a marvelous job of fixing a problem.

Is it probable that WDW releases so many FP+ that all SB lines are so outrageously long that touring WDW can only be done efficiently by FP+?

I've said since the announcement of FP+ months ago that this would make the SB lines at RD longer faster and I was right.

That is what I experienced despite the spin that more people would sleep in, and more people would decide to use FP+ in the afternoon and it would make RD MORE desirable etc. everything and anything to pitch the wonders of FP+ but that isn't what happened.

 

[practicallyperfect77]

Perhaps this is the plan. To make it so that no one can ever get the "most optimized" experience. If everything is always changing, at some point you just have to pick what looks good and go with it.

This is after all what they do with the parade FP+'s. Even if you're planning 60 days out, you cant get the parade passes. These FP+ only attractions might be according to a similar plan. (and that's why they're only available until the 24th)

Your guess on why Disney does things is as good as mine. I honestly don't think they are out to purposefully make someone's trip less optimized but ya might be right. At the same time I don't think everything they do is done to make a trip better. I do think everything they do comes down to money tho. I haven't been able to connect the dots on how this makes them more. Unless it's just to spread out crowds more so they can get more thru the door.

 

[mom2rtk]

So, this is just a test through May 24th? Any clue what happens on the 25th? We arrive on the 31st, and I am curious if this will be extended, if there will be no M&G for these characters at all, if it will go back to all SB, or if it will be a mixture of FP+ and SB from the 25th on.

I am guessing nobody knows, but if the The Hub or some other CM with insider knowledge has any insight, that would be fantastic.

That's on a need to know basis. And apparently Disney doesn't think you need to know.

 

[leebee]

I accept that change brings teething problems. Poorly thought out and badly implemented change where new problems are stacked onto existing ones without solving the first issues before introducing even more changes does not draw out the same level of acceptance and tolerance from me. There is a vast difference between a voluntary test and a system titled 'test', but with nothing else to fall back on. Operational problems should not be the customer (or guest's) problem. That's all there is to it.

It boils down to this: My vacation is not a test. We make sacrifices daily throughout the year to get our vacation of choice. It's not there for someone else to play around with just to see if they can make it work in a way that suits them, without giving me the option to accept or decline the invitation to the trial.

Your guess on why Disney does things is as good as mine. I honestly don't think they are out to purposefully make someone's trip less optimized but ya might be right. At the same time I don't think everything they do is done to make a trip better. I do think everything they do comes down to money tho. I haven't been able to connect the dots on how this makes them more. Unless it's just to spread out crowds more so they can get more thru the door.

This just about sums up my feelings exactly.

 

[EMode]

I was one of those initially with a wait and see attitude. At the time I had this upcoming trip booked but I figured things would get better. Yes, in certain respects things have come a long way from where they were a few months ago. But at the time thoughts of putting the thousands I'd invested in this vacation into Disney's coffers so I could pay rack rate to deal with their glitches and problems were a long way off in my mind. Once I'd paid my $2000+ for our flights which are non refundable, I had to commit to this trip. And suddenly there was a lot more at stake.

I accept that change brings teething problems. Poorly thought out and badly implemented change where new problems are stacked onto existing ones without solving the first issues before introducing even more changes does not draw out the same level of acceptance and tolerance from me. There is a vast difference between a voluntary test and a system titled 'test', but with nothing else to fall back on. Operational problems should not be the customer (or guest's) problem. That's all there is to it.

It boils down to this: My vacation is not a test. We make sacrifices daily throughout the year to get our vacation of choice. It's not there for someone else to play around with just to see if they can make it work in a way that suits them, without giving me the option to accept or decline the invitation to the trial.

While some may be convinced that Disney is looking for a way to enhance the guest experience, I see it more as Disney has designed a system to enhance its profits (nothing wrong with that) and now has to try and persuade the guest that this is what we want. So far they haven't sold it to me yet. They almost did when reports of the subsequent FP's proving quite successful started emerging ... and then they try find a way to cut something else out. Can't say I'm jumping up and down cheering them on just yet.

 

[chocolatemint]

The reality is this: Disney is a corporation that, like every corporation, seeks to optimize its revenue while cutting costs.

They will cut and eliminate and reduce their costs without ceasing-- until they see a negative effect on revenue.

Disney's not our Grandma. Disney doesn't care about our feelings. As long as the money keeps coming in (and the more of it the better!) they will continue on this trajectory. It's the way of everything.

 

[2Tiggies]

The reality is this: Disney is a corporation that, like every corporation, seeks to optimize its revenue while cutting costs.

They will cut and eliminate and reduce their costs without ceasing-- until they see a negative effect on revenue.

Disney's not our Grandma. Disney doesn't care about our feelings. As long as the money keeps coming in (and the more of it the better!) they will continue on this trajectory. It's the way of everything.

It's difficult to be a successful business when providing goods and services to people if you do not consider the needs and preferences of those people though. If you don't take care of your customers, somebody else will. The challenge is finding the balance between the customer and the business plan. The budget is not the customer's problem; but the customer is in the business' best interests. I don't see how you can have one without the other.

 

[chocolatemint]

It's difficult to be a successful business when providing goods and services to people if you do not consider the needs and preferences of those people though. If you don't take care of your customers, somebody else will. The challenge is finding the balance between the customer and the business plan. The budget is not the customer's problem; but the customer is in the business' best interests. I don't see how you can have one without the other.

But see, that's what I said -- they will cut costs until they see a negative effect on revenue. If customers are unhappy enough to stop going (and in enough numbers to have an effect on revenue), then you will see changes. If people are lining up just like always, then it makes no difference to Disney whether some people are unhappy. If you are unhappy but still spending money, then in their eyes, you aren't that unhappy.

To give an example: There's a restaurant near me that used to have fantastic food and service. It was frequently featured on tv shows and was always crowded. Slowly, the service got worse (high turnover of staff), the food became inconsistent and increasingly more expensive (far more expensive than comparable restaurants) and the portions got smaller.

We used to go nearly weekly, but then we stopped going entirely and haven't gone in years. Visited them last week and all the same issues were present --maybe more so.

Guess what? It's still totally packed. None of the families I know go there any longer (we all have the same issues). But yet it's full of tourists and snowbirds -- i.e., people who have no experience with the former quality or people who are visiting based on what they've heard on t.v.

I think that's probably a good analogy. YMMV.

 

[ferd]

But see, that's what I said -- they will cut costs until they see a negative effect on revenue. If customers are unhappy enough to stop going (and in enough numbers to have an effect on revenue), then you will see changes. If people are lining up just like always, then it makes no difference to Disney whether some people are unhappy. If you are unhappy but still spending money, then in their eyes, you aren't that unhappy.

To give an example: There's a restaurant near me that used to have fantastic food and service. It was frequently featured on tv shows and was always crowded. Slowly, the service got worse (high turnover of staff), the food became inconsistent and increasingly more expensive (far more expensive than comparable restaurants) and the portions got smaller.

We used to go nearly weekly, but then we stopped going entirely and haven't gone in years. Visited them last week and all the same issues were present --maybe more so.

Guess what? It's still totally packed. None of the families I know go there any longer (we all have the same issues). But yet it's full of tourists and snowbirds -- i.e., people who have no experience with the former quality or people who are visiting based on what they've heard on t.v.

I think that's probably a good analogy. YMMV.

I agree. At the end of the day, Disney is unique, and although some may say Universal will 'win' the war because of WWOHP or whatever, at the end of the day, people are drawn to WDW for a reason, and people like us come to this board and other places online to discuss all things Disney because we love it, flaws and all. I was rather upset with all the FP+ drama a couple months back and felt very disheartened about it, but amidst all of that, I still renewed our annual passes and we still continue to go to the parks and make many purchases while there. I see many people on this board upset about things, and yet, people are not cancelling their trips and are still booking new ones. People are complaining about A & E wait times, and yet, people are still hopping in those long lines each and every day and have been for months. We can get mad, glad or sad about it, but until their choices with FP+ or whatever else literally drive us away and cause us to not give them a nickel, then they will not see our outrage as being that detrimental. At the end of the day, change is hard, and a lot of time we look back at Disney days of yore with rose colored glasses (I know I do). We don't like feeling as though the new system is being tested on us and failing, and we don't like being able to do what we've always been able to do while visiting the parks. We feel as though we lost an element of control and spontaniety to our 'fun' time, but considering what has been spent on the technology, I don't see it changing. So if the good outweighs the bad for you, you'll keep going to Disney. If you are truly so outraged by it all, then don't give them your money and maybe they'll get the hint.

 

[ArwenMarie]

We always knew they were in the business of making money. We're not children (although who said that the characters are people dressed up in costumes?! What! Kidding)

But all of this has shown how the only thing that matters is money, or maybe the feeling that you are being processed. Again, you always knew it, but it didn't feel so obvious.

 

[JanaDee]

What if....
They do this to all the restrooms
They do this to the parking lots
They do this at the waterparks
They do this at the QS restaurants
They do this for the parades

Yes, lets get outraged at everything that is POSSIBLE at WDW but not PROBABLE.

Besides, Disney's IT is too incompetent to make all this happen. It is amazing that their IT staff keeps the parks running...

Who would ever have thought WDW would get rid of a stand by line? No one, and if they say otherwise, they're a liar.

 

[chocolatemint]

But all of this has shown how the only thing that matters is money, or maybe the feeling that you are being processed. Again, you always knew it, but it didn't feel so obvious.

I think you really hit the nail on the head.

 

[JanaDee]

But see, that's what I said -- they will cut costs until they see a negative effect on revenue. If customers are unhappy enough to stop going (and in enough numbers to have an effect on revenue), then you will see changes. If people are lining up just like always, then it makes no difference to Disney whether some people are unhappy. If you are unhappy but still spending money, then in their eyes, you aren't that unhappy.

To give an example: There's a restaurant near me that used to have fantastic food and service. It was frequently featured on tv shows and was always crowded. Slowly, the service got worse (high turnover of staff), the food became inconsistent and increasingly more expensive (far more expensive than comparable restaurants) and the portions got smaller.

We used to go nearly weekly, but then we stopped going entirely and haven't gone in years. Visited them last week and all the same issues were present --maybe more so.

Guess what? It's still totally packed. None of the families I know go there any longer (we all have the same issues). But yet it's full of tourists and snowbirds -- i.e., people who have no experience with the former quality or people who are visiting based on what they've heard on t.v.

I think that's probably a good analogy. YMMV.

I think that is a great point. People who have never been before have no prior experience to compare the current situation to. *That* is what Disney is counting on.

 

[famy27]

Who would ever have thought WDW would get rid of a stand by line? No one, and if they say otherwise, they're a liar.

I posted Disney's own FAQ upthread. It says that standby lines are available for every attraction that isn't down for refurbishment. I am sure that was put in place to calm the fears of appointment riding. But it appears that those fears might not be unfounded.