Disney endorses....

[write2caro]

The only thing I really think is important is monogamy in any relationship. Other than that, whatever floats your boat.

I just am not that smart nor capable. I muddle through and am willing to let others do the same.

Slightly Goofy

I like your post and totally agree with the first part I quoted. [OT - As for the seocnd part, you should not be so modest... I recongize you from a bunch of other posts I've read, and I'd say you're pretty darned smart and capable! I always enjoy hearing your take. Here's a fellow DISer who enjoys the lightness and positivity you bring. ]

 

[SlightlyGoofy]

What a nice way to wake up!

chrismom2005 and write2caro, I really appreciate your kind words, especially since my children think I am dumber than a box of rocks. How I raised such narrow minded human beings I will never know. Breaks my heart, really.

I am not overly modest. I just think that people who 'know it all' seldom know much of anything. We are all born a clean slate and then life starts writing on our pages. it is not just what is written but how we read it that determines what kind of a person we are, our thoughts, prejudices and such. Everyone has prejudices and acknowledging that fact makes it possible to get over them.

It is fear of the unknown that causes so many problems. With the Internet we get to meet so many different people that we might not otherwise get to meet and can thus overcome some of those misconceptions and fears. I grew up reading so I had a headstart on knowledge even before I discovered computers.

I have the thought that a lot of the problem with people being against gay people is that they are 'afraid' of being propositioned. Heck, if I had freaked out over every guy (and a few gals) who asked me out or went over and beyond the bounds of decency I would be crazier than I already am. Women have learned how to cope with such, mostly, and men will have to also. I figure as long as folks understand the word 'no' life is good. Just hope no one hears 'no' all the time. Would be a sad and lonely life. (BTW, I welcome other opinions in that I might learn.)

Back to work for me. I would rather spend my day here with people who I have deluded into thinking I am smart.

Slightly Goofy

 

[GreatLakes5]

I agree with the poster that pointed out the importance of monogomy. Both heterosexual and homosexual folks seem to have problems with living out that word. See we have more in common than some care to point out.

For those opposed make sure you have the correct term: Commitment Ceremony. This would be an issue if Disney decided to offer marriages. An issue because this is not legal in the state of Florida.

As a relatively conservative Christian I may or may not agree with this, but as an American citizen who reads history correctly rather than through rose-colored (or rainbow-colored) glasses, this country was established on the basis that all men are created equal. When two adults are involved they will have to answer for themselves. I do not have to answer for them, nor them for me. Such is life.

Now speaking as a straight woman who has never been to this event (though has read and seen photos on both liberal and conservative media outlets) I would dare say I'd rather see Disney during a commitment ceremony celebrating monogomy than on Gay Days which - if the ads for hotels and such are any indication - does not celebrate such things.

Finally, if one was looking for a reason to boycott Disney or worried about them going out on a limb, they should have worried back when Desparate Housewives came out, or when the Bachelor began (decidedly not celebrating heterosexual monogomy)...how about when they stopped offering on site church services (Easter not withstanding).....

It's not a limb - not a skinny one anyway. A skinny limb would be white supremacist day or pedophile day. That's a limb...

 

[SlightlyGoofy]

GreatLakes5, it is my belief that our slide into immorality started with "The Love Boat". Not being a believer in censorship I cringed when my kids wanted to watch that show. (dating myself are I not?) Instead of forbidding it and making it far more attractive I sat and watched it with them and pointed out, when I could, that it was not 'natural' to fall in 'love' with a different person each and every week.

I could not conceive of disowning a child because they preferred a blonde to a brunette, of either sex, and it would break my heart if a child of mine thought they were gay or otherwise "outside the norm" and felt they had to hide that from me. We are each unique individuals and trying to be that which we are not is the cause of much misery and sin. As long as we are not hurting anyone and attempting to be the best we can be that is all that can be asked of anyone and any of us are going to fall short of that goal at some point.

Fresh air and debate takes care of many things. I am loving this thread for its overwhelming ability to disagree without being disagreeable, for the most part.

GreatLakes5, the sad fact is that either White Supremists (why are those who join such an organization the lowest common denominator of our race??) or Pedophiles could decide to gather at DW and there would not be a single thing that DW could do about it UNLESS they broke a law or rule of the park.

I am firmly in favor of allowing the KKK or any other organization march. Secrecy is what is dangerous and I want to know who is living around me. I would even offer to wash their robes. I am a believer in being good to those who do evil. If it does not make them feel bad at least it makes me feel better.

The only limb that I will climb out on is the one where people claim bi sexuality. It seems to me to be a bit greedy, Pick one person, any sex, that you want to make a life with. That is my rule but then what do I know? I am a nearly 60 year old married wife/mother/grandmother.

Slightly Goofy who wishes everyone a great weekend!!

 

[ms_mckenna]

Well giving my 2 cents. I am thrilled that Disney has opened the doors for this to be able to happen. My theory on those who have issue with it is please go ahead and feel free to boycott Disney. I am guessing those same people are a good portion of the same people who stare at my husband and myself when we are out in public (he is black and I am white). Disney without those people I imagine would be even more enjoyable!
On a positive note CONGRATS to anyone from here who is now going to have a ceremony at Disney I look forward to reading trip reports all about your magical moments!

 

[jillyjoey]

Well -- I personally hope alot of narrow-minded people decide to stay home and boycot WDW.


Less crowds for me!

 

[sk!mom]

A little suprised this hasnt already been addressed here, and I am going to attempt to pose the question w/o offending anyone, but does anyone see an issue with Disney allowing/promoting same sex wedings in there parks and on their cruises? It would seem to me, that they are going out on a big limb here. Heres the link for those who want to read the story.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17972793/?GT1=9246

Nope- no issue for me. In fact, I say good for Disney. I'm sure that it was mostly a business decision. It opens up a whole new wedding market.

 

[GreatLakes5]

GreatLakes5, it is my belief that our slide into immorality started with "The Love Boat". Not being a believer in censorship I cringed when my kids wanted to watch that show. (dating myself are I not?) Instead of forbidding it and making it far more attractive I sat and watched it with them and pointed out, when I could, that it was not 'natural' to fall in 'love' with a different person each and every week.


My father says the same thing from time to time. That and "Fantasy Island"...granted when the show was on my greatest "fantasy" would be to live at Disney so I knew no better!

And my point with regard to KKK, et al is if Disney supported this by giving them a special event it would be a skinny limb. Of course they cannot control who is in their parks at any given time. THAT was my point, not free assembly in the constitutional sense of the concept.

 

[bethbuchall]

Hi folks! I rarely if ever visit the Disney for Families board simply because I've often thought, "Well heck, it really doesn't apply to me. We're a family of two with one dog." But I do lurk on all boards from time to time just to see what's what.

With that, I'm so incredibly happy to see this posted here. Support from so many different walks of life is an amazing thing to see, and whether you know it or not, it is incredibly gratifying and heartening. I recall not long ago when I was absolutely without a doubt terrified of telling anyone I was gay. The very idea made me nauseous. Gay characters rarely existed on TV and in the movies. There were no gay role models. The concept of being gay was just not discussed.

I came out in 1985 when the idea of a commitment ceremony was nothing but a pipe dream. I felt that marriage was for other people that lived heterosexual lives, wanted to raise children in the suburbs and that if I were to ever find someone to love, we'd simply have to do so as room mates at best.

It's a new age and one that I'm so happy to live in. I have a wonderful man in my life, in a committed relationship of many, many, MANY years (16+). And I then realized that we could have a ceremony of sorts. That we could have a "marriage" albeit not recognized legally (that's a battle I'm still fighting). But the one thing I had always wanted was to have a small group of friends with us, in my favorite place on earth, both of us in tuxedos, my brother at my side as best man, grinning like idiots as we were married in Disney World. But it was never, ever an option and it always bothered me. At times it depressed me that it would never be something I could do, let alone dream of.

And now it is and we're going to do it!

So whether I know you or not, whether you and I ever meet, whether we'll ever speak in person, whether we'll chat in line for Haunted Mansion, whether we'll bump into each other during Illuminations.... just know that you're support means the World to my partner and I. From being a terrified college kid who was horrified at telling anyone that I was gay, to being a proud 40 year old man with the best partner, home, dog and friends, the world is becoming a better, more inclusive and accepting place... at least through my view off my balcony.

This gave me chills and brought tears to my eyes. I am so happy that you will be able to make this dream come true!

 

[swillis]

I have NO issues with it what so ever. And if there are close minded people who are willing to boycott the parks because they do not agree with this, then that is just fine with me. I am happy that everyone gets to have the Fairy Tale Wedding of their dreams!!

 

[SlightlyGoofy]

GreatLakes5, I am sorry, I must not have made myself clear. I was not disagreeing with you at all even though I am quite capable as I am sort of ornery and will take the opposite tack on most any old subject just for the fun of it. I hate to be an old fogey but I am coming to believe that the constant parade of tv shows, shock jock radio, rap music and all makes it nearly impossible for us not be become numb to things that once were not to be thought of let alone done. JMO I do not want to go back to Dick and Jane days either though.

RickinNYC , I read your post a few hours ago but had to go to a school play. I was thinking about you and your post a great deal. I just wish that I could give you a great big motherly hug. I am going to impart some great wisdom, learned after much time and much pain by myself. "To thine own self be true". If you pretend to be other than who you really are you will not attract the sort of people you want nor deserve in your life.

A simple thing like a different pronoun should not make people turn from you. I truly feel that if more gay (I do not know why I do not like that word, it just does not feel, to me like a respectful and appropriate word, people are people and straight and gay just does not do it for me) people would just stand up and be counted instead of just the brave, and sometimes over the top, people would come to understand and accept easier. I watched a show once where all 'gay' people turned a lovely shade of something overnight and people were amazed at the friends, neighbors, family members etc. who were in this grouping. It was even more interesting the folks who were singled out who were not 'aware' as they had not been able to accept themselves. It broke my heart that last part.

The truth of the matter is that everyone has some deep dark secret (mine is that I do not clean my oven often enough-that is all I am confessing to here anyway ). Why anyone should have to keep secret who they love unless they are messing around with someone they should not ought to be messing around with is unsupportable. Loving someone is something to be proud of.

Another fundamental truth is that most everyone is so darned busy worrying about what people think of THEM that they do not really have enough time to worry about YOU.

The last and most important thing is that you do NOT need US to support, affirm or approve of you. If you look for that from others you will often be disappointed. Look within yourself and be proud of the life you have built for yourself. It is one that many would envy, whatever their inclinations.

If I offend someone I truly do not intend to. These are just the lessons I have learned, so far. I am willing to learn more. I am not in a position to know a lot of gay people. I know a few. Some I like, some I do not, just the same as other people. I figure they feel the same about me.

I am a Ricky Nelson fan and love his "Garden Party" and its truths.

Slightly Goofy

BTW, there always WERE lots of gay people on TV, movies etc. They were called 'confirmed bachelors' in those bad old days.

 

[RickinNYC]

Been out of commission for a few days due to work but saw this the above post. Sorry for dredging up a thread a few days old.

Slightlygoofy, I just had to jump in and say that I do appreciate your post. But you should know that I am very true to myself, am not even remotely "hiding" anything about myself, nor do I invest too much time in what others think (although admittedly my posts would give a different impression). I am very much an open and "out" proud gay man and don't consistently harbor any anger towards others who would prefer that gay people just shut up and play nice. If, however, anyone should take issue with it and want to volly a few verbal attacks, rest assured I will vehemently participate. Sure, they'll be the ones to whine and cry "foul" because they are entitled to speak their mind and hide behind freedom of speech and yet forget that I have the very same right.

Although the topic at hand is gay issues, marriage specifically, I am absolutely morally outraged by anyone who feels that they are better than anyone else for any reason, whether it is due to one's skin color, religion, sex, orientation, weight, disability. I'll speak out for them as vociferously as I do for myself. To look the other way when someone is being disparaged, bashed or scoffed, is a disgusting character trait.

What absolutely drives me crazy is that there is no single individual who hasn't been pigeon holed and stuffed into a categorization. Women make fun of men and vice versa. People treat those with handicaps as an invisible population. Much of the elderly are left behind as youth grow older. Don't even get me started on how the general population look upon the obese. Black/white. Short/tall. Blond/brunette. Christian/Jewish/Muslim/Buddhist/Atheist/Agnostic. The list is absolutely endless.

No one is free from some potential for some level of hatred or disgust and if everyone is willing to look in the mirror and acknowledge this as fact, then we wouldn't be having this discourse.

Fundamentalist Christians and hardline conservatives feel that gay marriage is the beginning of a slippery slope to other lifestyle aspects that they feel are wrong and immoral. Might I say the exact same thing about them and feel that their stance is the slippery slope to skin heads and race purification? We can all dream up extremes in every aspect as long as it suits our world view. But the truth is, equal rights are equal rights.

Am I the perfect citizen that wouldn't dream of not telling a politically incorrect joke? God, no. Do I have my own biases? Of course I do. It's human nature. But I am not inflexible. My mind can be changed and is quite frequently. Am I ashamed of myself when I've said something that hurt another. Hell yes.

So I do have to politely and respectfully, but 100% disagree with you. Do I and the gay community need your support? Yes, we do. We are in the minority. If the rights we are currently entitled to are to ever change, then we need everyone's support to help vote out archaic laws that currently categorize us as second class citizens, i.e. the right to marriage. We pay the same taxes in the same country, we vote in the same elections.

Everyone on this board and in real life knows someone who is gay, regardless of how rural, urban or suburban your community might be. We are your postal carriers, teachers, ministers, waiters, firefighters, police officers and bank clerks. We are your neighbor, friend, son, daughter, grandchild, niece, nephew, in-law, brother and sister. We are indeed everywhere. To think otherwise is ignorant. Yet we're not going to be considered equal until laws change.

Do you really want someone you love to be unhappy because it fits your definition of moral? I hope not. Because in my own humble opinion, THAT is immoral.

 

[GreatLakes5]

Rick - I did just want to point out what I am sure is rather obvious, but when we discuss religious differences not all differences are born out of hatred. If a Christian walks a path that is true to CORRECT Christian values, they should, no MUST, believe there is a path of salvation that includes but one God. A TRUE Christian will do their best, IN LOVE, to convert others. And, of course, a TRUE Muslim should want the same for their fellow man as their path of salvation involves Allah. Etc.... I guess as a Christian I just wanted to stand up for my fellow believers and point out that when our group is maligned it is often because we are seen as haters of others because of a believe in our one God. It's our belief. And if evangelism would be done correctly it would never be seen as born out of hatred of others, but rather out of immense love.

And speaking of immense love, I have a very very (very) close family member who is gay and I must say that lives would be a whole lot easier all the way around if he came out to all of his family members. Instead we have to keep mental checklists of who knows and who does not so as to have appropriate conversations and remember to mention the boyfriend only in certain circles, etc. Closets - no matter what closet it may be - make some feel that there is "sneaking around" and where there is sneaking there must be embaressment and deceit. To move forward in any movement closets must be torn down. I believe this is really what needs to happen to have any sort of true legal change - those which we KNOW are living in closets but already having great impact on society for the good need to muster up the courage of civil rights pioneers of days of old and tear down the closets. Hollywood stars and uber-left politicians won't help. It's going to be the common 'man'...it's got to be the very people you list - the firefighters, the teachers, the bank clerks, the farmers - the people we can't help but relate to.

So back on Disney thread - bully for them for recognizing equal rights - but perhaps a Disney statement hinders on occasion rather than helps - it's when the farmer in Iowa or the conservative Republican pollster takes a stand - that's when things will happen and "stick".

 

[write2caro]

I guess as a Christian I just wanted to stand up for my fellow believers and point out that when our group is maligned it is often because we are seen as haters of others because of a believe in our one God. It's our belief. And if evangelism would be done correctly it would never be seen as born out of hatred of others, but rather out of immense love.

While I understand your point, sometimes what matters is the result, at least as much as the intention/motivation. If the result of that "immense love" is that a true Christian supports unequal treatment of, and unequal rights for gay people, I'm not sure I care that it comes from "immense love" rather than from hatred. At some point, you either believe in equality for all your fellow man or you don't. I think those are the important categories when it comes to making a true legal change in this country.

 

[RickinNYC]

Rick - I did just want to point out what I am sure is rather obvious, but when we discuss religious differences not all differences are born out of hatred. If a Christian walks a path that is true to CORRECT Christian values, they should, no MUST, believe there is a path of salvation that includes but one God. A TRUE Christian will do their best, IN LOVE, to convert others. And, of course, a TRUE Muslim should want the same for their fellow man as their path of salvation involves Allah. Etc.... I guess as a Christian I just wanted to stand up for my fellow believers and point out that when our group is maligned it is often because we are seen as haters of others because of a believe in our one God. It's our belief. And if evangelism would be done correctly it would never be seen as born out of hatred of others, but rather out of immense love.

That is entirely my point. Today, fundamentalist Christians are under incredibly intense scrutiny by the majority. They are being condemned for what is essentially their lifestyle. Their actions, i.e. witnessing, are scoffed. They are victims of the same bias as the gay community. They are not free from any level of persecution yet their are willing to judge and use their belief system to condemn when in fact they should be more understanding BECAUSE they know what it feels like.

ETA: And a Disney statment certainly does not hinder any advancements in equal rights, hence their announcement allowing gay ceremonies on property. It brings to light to many that they are one of the first major international corporations to recognize that our current laws are, quite simply, stupid and they do not support it.

Some have said that it was likely a change to increase capital. So what if it is? The gay community has as much a right to go broke getting married as the straight community!

 

[GreatLakes5]

While I understand your point, sometimes what matters is the result, at least as much as the intention/motivation. If the result of that "immense love" is that a true Christian supports unequal treatment of, and unequal rights for gay people, I'm not sure I care that it comes from "immense love" rather than from hatred. At some point, you either believe in equality for all your fellow man or you don't. I think those are the important categories when it comes to making a true legal change in this country.

I believe if you read my entire post I am stating this in conjunction with discussing equal rights - I would hope one section is not pulled out without the other sections being read.

And anyone religious would have to point out that they are more concerned with eternity rather than the here and now. Regardless of religious bent unless, of course, you believe in reincarnation.....

 

[GreatLakes5]

ETA: And a Disney statment certainly does not hinder any advancements in equal rights, hence their announcement allowing gay ceremonies on property. It brings to light to many that they are one of the first major international corporations to recognize that our current laws are, quite simply, stupid and they do not support it.

Some have said that it was likely a change to increase capital. So what if it is? The gay community has as much a right to go broke getting married as the straight community!

Indeed - feel free to go broke along with the masses!

As for Disney and hinder vs. advance, I suppose it depends on how one sees productive change happening. I sit back and teach history and can't help but find more instances of individuals and common man making change, rather than major corporations. The individual and the common man can come together and relate to the "average Joe", Disney has already done some things which has alienated itself from the average citizen - allowing this is not going to assist in changing laws or swaying opinions.

I am NOT saying they are wrong - I am simply stating that I don't believe what they are doing will make a difference - apart from equal opportunity to go broke.

 

[*KeepMovingForward*]

RickinNYC...You certainly have my support!

I have been following this thread and am amazed at some of the responses...but to each his own I guess. I am for whatever makes a person happy. I am not a deeply religious person (although I was brought up in the Episcopal church with my father as part of the ministry). I believe in a higher power (God in my case) and I tend to think that my God would not condemn any man or woman for their sexual preference. I only wish that the country would legalize gay unions already. Seems silly to me-and inevitable. I have friends that are not really hung up on the moral issue of gay marriage, it is just something that they fail to understand and are not used to. Let's just say we have had some heated discussions on this topic. Times change though...commitment ceremonies are a step in the right direction, but there is still a long way to go.

 

[write2caro]

I believe if you read my entire post I am stating this in conjunction with discussing equal rights - I would hope one section is not pulled out without the other sections being read.

And anyone religious would have to point out that they are more concerned with eternity rather than the here and now. Regardless of religious bent unless, of course, you believe in reincarnation.....

I did read your entire post. I wouldn't respond if I hadn't. I was commenting on how many of us might view true Christians - not as haters (as you propose), but as people who regardless of their motivation, contribute to equal rights being witheld from the gay community. That on this issue, THIS might be why your group is maligned. Not for being haters, but for contributing in this way to discrimination, regardless of your "immense love". That was the point I was trying to make - hope it's clearer now.

 

[jenelope]

Well, I think it's a great change! I tend to lurk on the Weddings and Honeymoons board, and every once in a while, a poster will ask if same sex ceremonies are allowed. It's nice to know that they can now have a simple and resounding "yes!" in reply, instead of a dismayed "no."

My only regret is that neither of my siblings cares about Disney enough to take advantage of the new rule, They are much more likely to marry or have a committment ceremony than I am, and I would love to be part of Disney Fairy Tale Wedding in one way or another. I will say this, if I ever do manage to find my match, I fully intend to be married at the Boardwalk with my socially liberal, religiously ambiguous, undeniably lesbian sister as my maid of honor and my conservative, born-again Christian, SAHM best friend as my matron of honor. One is the sister God blessed me with and one is the sister I picked out for myself in the fourth grade. I could never choose between them.