Disney does not want or need FastPass+ Haters business!

[ellie05]

I think is too early to say who is the 20% if in fact that is what they are looking for. This whole system is to gather information. They will be able to access so much of it and once the system is establish. It is naive to think that Disney didn't know they will loose some guest and it seems they are ok with that. Economy is changing not only in the US, but the latin America countries. I read an article that said international guest had gone up 7%. We took a trip to various latin American countries in December/January and we were surprised how much Disney advertisement we saw during our trip. Not only that but last week I saw the first Disney advertisement that was target to just adults.

 

[jade1]

FYI: If you stay on property, at HRH, Portofino Bay, or Royal Pacific....Universal Express Pass (the unlimited version) is included with your room rate for all guests staying in the room.

Only at the new hotel (their "value" resort, Cabana bay) does not include it.

And, across the board, room rates are less expensive on site at Universal.

Thank you for wording it that way, not "free".

We used to stay at RP for under $100 and HRH was usually about $129.

Also the big dog attraction is not on the list anyway (and I doubt the next new HP attraction will be either) but you can enter an hour sooner or so in the am for that.

I wish they would make 7DMT a "4TH FP+" you could purchase, or else choose SB.

 

[pilferk]

Thank you for wording it that way, not "free".

We used to stay at RP for under $100 and HRH was usually about $129.

Also the big dog attraction is not on the list anyway (and I doubt the next new HP attraction will be either) but you can enter an hour sooner or so in the am for that.

I wish they would make 7DMT a "4TH FP+" you could purchase, or else choose SB.

Very little in life is truly "free".

Just as I would term FP+ (or access to FP Legacy, before) as "Included with the price of your theme park ticket".

Because you certainly can't use it without one.

Having said that, by comparison, Uni's deluxe hotels ARE less expensive than Disney's comparable offerings. So..you have that to consider, too, I guess.

We choose both, usually. A couple days on Uni property (in a "deluxe" room at their "deluxe" hotels...because it can sleep 5 of us), and then a move to our DVC villa.

 

[jade1]

Very little in life is truly "free".

Just as I would term FP+ (or access to FP Legacy, before) as "Included with the price of your theme park ticket".

Because you certainly can't use it without one.

Having said that, by comparison, Uni's deluxe hotels ARE less expensive than Disney's comparable offerings. So..you have that to consider, too, I guess.

We choose both, usually. A couple days on Uni property (in a "deluxe" room at their "deluxe" hotels...because it can sleep 5 of us), and then a move to our DVC villa.

Yep true, although I think US hotels really spiked with FOTL. My Niece and new hubby stayed at HRH last mid Sept on a wed.....$229 plus tax. Had a great time though, and like you say-WDW would have been more.

 

[smallworldnh]

And that's why we're going to Universal this year and skipping Disney...

Already cancelled my reservations and made new ones for Universal - call me a traitor or a disloyal Disneyer, I don't care. I'll try again next year.

 

[superdiz]

It is absolutely about that.

To get all the whiz bang back end predictive algorithms working, they need as many people using the system, entirely (including and esp FP+) as possible. It allows them to use the predictive modeling so they can get those resource and staffing economies.

This isn't about being "fair". It's not even about making sure FP's are distributed more evenly, simply for the sake of even distribution.

It's about getting as many people "on the bus" to fuel their heuristics as possible. It's about BUSINESS....and not even the normal revenue cycle stuff. We're talking, potentially (if all this works) West World levels of automation of their staffing, ordering. resource allocation, etc. Not at first....but eventually.

THAT'S what this is all about. It's not what Disney is selling...it's not even what they are initially selling to the stockholders (they're getting the "keep 'em on site and spending" pitch...which, incidentally, is ALSO true) right now. But that's what the blue sky is, for the project.

And if they manage to do it, without incurring significant consumer blowback, they'll look like geniuses to the stockholders in about 2 to 3 years.

Completely agree.

 

[superdiz]

Universal is cheaper. In all ways. You have to then rent a car or cab if you want to go off property.

With little ones I personally think of the time value of money. Lugging them back to the car at the end of the night, waking them up, paying for parking each day, no thanks.

I do think the hotels at Disney for Deluxe are overpriced, but there is someone out there wiling to pay it, so I cannot begrudge Disney for maximizing profits.

Lines are great times for me to talk and spend time with my family. Which is, to me, the point of my vacation. Naturally I wouldn.t wait in a 60 minute line, but I am confident once the glitches are worked out, that won't be the case for most rides.

I enjoy getting my vacation packet months in advance, discussing dining options with my husband, talking about strategies, all of that is part of my vacation experience so this new plan is right up my alley.

Sorry people do not like it, but I have never had a problem in the past two years walking up to Le Cellier and Ohana and getting in. I do not go in summer or school vacation weeks so I understand that frustration. However, if you truly love something and feel like you are a die hard fan, then you will find a way to make changes work for you and your family.

If this pushes someone to Universal instead, have at it. I do not understand the need to freak out on those of us who either like or want to give the new system a chance before we stomp our feet and start threatening to take our toys to a different sandbox. Give it a chance!

 

[pilferk]

Universal is cheaper. In all ways. You have to then rent a car or cab if you want to go off property.

With little ones I personally think of the time value of money. Lugging them back to the car at the end of the night, waking them up, paying for parking each day, no thanks.

I do think the hotels at Disney for Deluxe are overpriced, but there is someone out there wiling to pay it, so I cannot begrudge Disney for maximizing profits.

Lines are great times for me to talk and spend time with my family. Which is, to me, the point of my vacation. Naturally I wouldn.t wait in a 60 minute line, but I am confident once the glitches are worked out, that won't be the case for most rides.

I enjoy getting my vacation packet months in advance, discussing dining options with my husband, talking about strategies, all of that is part of my vacation experience so this new plan is right up my alley.

Sorry people do not like it, but I have never had a problem in the past two years walking up to Le Cellier and Ohana and getting in. I do not go in summer or school vacation weeks so I understand that frustration. However, if you truly love something and feel like you are a die hard fan, then you will find a way to make changes work for you and your family.

If this pushes someone to Universal instead, have at it. I do not understand the need to freak out on those of us who either like or want to give the new system a chance before we stomp our feet and start threatening to take our toys to a different sandbox. Give it a chance!

I think part of the problem is that people take things that are not in any way meant to be attacks...as attacks. (Keep in mind, I'm not pointing at anyone(s) specific).

For example:

"We're not going back to Disney, and are going to Universal instead" is not an attack on those who love Disney, and like the FP system. It's a simple expression of opinion based off a value calculation FOR THAT POSTER.

Just as "We like the new system because it lets us sleep in a little" isn't an attack against those who HATE FP+, and liked FP legacy much more. It's a simple expression of an opinion based off of one persons use of the system, and, perhaps, a love of sleep.

There are differing opinions. And they are going to be rife amongst the messages in a public forum like this.

In addition...people need to expect that when they post one of the above, people with differing views are going to post THEIR opinions, too. They are not attacks, they are just differing viewpoints offered to add context to your own.

Which is not to say there is no spirited debate going on here...there certainly is. And it gets heated from BOTH sides....

 

[Silock]

It means that only 20% of customers provide 80% of all profits. Inversely, it means 20% of customers suck up and devour an astonishing 80% of all resources, direct consumer costs, time w/customer service-- and wreak the most havoc.

These 20% aren't necessarily the same group.

Businesses also know that they can always drum up temporary business quickly by throwing the least desirable and least profitable group of customers a bone every now and then.....in the form of some kind of discount or freebie and they will come a runnin'.

Except the Pareto Principle tells us that this is incredibly economically INefficient. Businesses suffer from hugely diminished ROI when they go outside of the core 20%. What the PP wants us to do is to focus solely on the core 20%, and do as little as possible to maintain the other 80%.

I don't think Disney is doing this at all. In fact, I think they're doing the complete opposite, and I don't know how well it will work for them in the long-run.

 

[Silock]

Curious to see if they know how coveted that ride is and curious to see how long that standby will be with this new system.

As long as ever.

 

[sethschroeder]

Yep true, although I think US hotels really spiked with FOTL. My Niece and new hubby stayed at HRH last mid Sept on a wed.....$229 plus tax. Had a great time though, and like you say-WDW would have been more.

Sorry but staying this September for 11 days via rented DVC at the boardwalk with boardwalk view for 204 a night after tax and all fees. Is it 100% comparable likely not as it's DVC instead of resort but the daily cleaning isn't a big thing to give up.

 

[Eldon_Brasche]

These 20% aren't necessarily the same group.

You are right, they are not the same 20%. They are the other end of the spectrum that no business wants to try and maintain a relationship with. And why would they?

Except the Pareto Principle tells us that this is incredibly economically INefficient. Businesses suffer from hugely diminished ROI when they go outside of the core 20%. What the PP wants us to do is to focus solely on the core 20%, and do as little as possible to maintain the other 80%.

I don't think Disney is doing this at all. In fact, I think they're doing the complete opposite, and I don't know how well it will work for them in the long-run.

Can you share your insight into what leads you to this thought? It may be a bit premature to tell until they have the data that allows them to determine where their customers fall and they can make on-the-fly changes that focuses on the 20%.

 

[joybeth]

Also - intended or not - this new FastPass+ DOES even out the playing field. Before, as a Disney veteran, I knew to go directly to Toy Story for a FP. Now, I will be choosing that FP along with everyone else who also has to follow the new rules. Curious to see if they know how coveted that ride is and curious to see how long that standby will be with this new system.

Not is you are an offsite visitor. I went with my sisters' family to HS yesterday (Sunday) and arrived at the FP+ kiosk at 830 am. That is 30 min prior to the official park opening. FP for Toy Story were gone BEFORE park opening. My sister waited in the SB line at park opening and waited 70 minutes. Not my idea of an even playing field.

 

[luvthemouse71]

It isn't designed for fairness. Disney have clearly stated in the press that MM+ (not FP+, MM+) was designed to keep people on Disney property, and thus spend more money with Disney and not with their competitors.

FP+ is what they are using to get people to use MM+...nothing more, nothing less.

This is true. Any good business is going to be concerned with profit and making money. Fairness shouldn't matter at all. Although, I think Disney is more concerned than they need to be with placating people, to the point where they've created problems for themselves.

 

[Mad Hattered]

Why be so nasty? Oh- that's right....Disney took three of your little FastPasses away so it's perfectly acceptable to be rude. Do whatever works for you.......have at it. I'm just showing my Disney side.....I don't care who likes FastPass+ or not.....I have no desire to judge folks!

You haven't seen "nasty" yet. And Disney took 5 of my FPs away, not 3!

 

[luvthemouse71]

Already cancelled my reservations and made new ones for Universal - call me a traitor or a disloyal Disneyer, I don't care. I'll try again next year.

And you should be applauded for doing so. Rather have someone stop going than continue to complain. You voted with your dollars, nothing wrong with that.

Just as long as you don't expect Disney to care, because they don't,lol.

 

[magicbob]

After reading some more people's thoughts on the 80/20 principle, I think I've cracked the code.

I think some of us have been looking at this problem all wrong. We've been assuming that the die-hard loyal return guests are the 20%. Perhaps not.

Apparently WDW's research indicated that the 20% of people providing the vast majority of their profits were the 20% of guests who complained about not being able to get a TSMM FP after 11am. FP+ solves this problem and keeps that 20% happy. I can only assume that these are the people spending all the money at WDW. Hence, the need to overhaul the FP system to placate this small minority.

 

[EMode]

Universal is cheaper. In all ways. You have to then rent a car or cab if you want to go off property.

With little ones I personally think of the time value of money. Lugging them back to the car at the end of the night, waking them up, paying for parking each day, no thanks.

I do think the hotels at Disney for Deluxe are overpriced, but there is someone out there wiling to pay it, so I cannot begrudge Disney for maximizing profits.

Lines are great times for me to talk and spend time with my family. Which is, to me, the point of my vacation. Naturally I wouldn.t wait in a 60 minute line, but I am confident once the glitches are worked out, that won't be the case for most rides.

I enjoy getting my vacation packet months in advance, discussing dining options with my husband, talking about strategies, all of that is part of my vacation experience so this new plan is right up my alley.

Sorry people do not like it, but I have never had a problem in the past two years walking up to Le Cellier and Ohana and getting in. I do not go in summer or school vacation weeks so I understand that frustration. However, if you truly love something and feel like you are a die hard fan, then you will find a way to make changes work for you and your family.

If this pushes someone to Universal instead, have at it. I do not understand the need to freak out on those of us who either like or want to give the new system a chance before we stomp our feet and start threatening to take our toys to a different sandbox. Give it a chance!

I don't understand the FP+ lovers insisting we must give it a chance before we decide "to take our toys to a different sandbox". I know how we tour WDW and how we like to vacation at any destination. I know that the limit of 3 FP, the restriction of only being able to use it in one park, and the tiering does not work with how we like to tour WDW. I don't need to give it a chance to know that
And FTR, I don't like to be compared to a baby just because I'm not choosing to continue to support WDW after they change their "products and services" to something I know I will not enjoy. I guess it makes you feel better to insult us just because we are "attacking" your Disney. I think some of you need to step back from your Disney love if you can't accept critcism of that corporation's decisions

 

[Silock]

You are right, they are not the same 20%. They are the other end of the spectrum that no business wants to try and maintain a relationship with. And why would they?

While they aren't necessarily the same group, they still COULD be. Just because a group takes up a lot of resources doesn't mean that they cannot contribute more overall in spite of that, especially when it comes to money. For instance, you could have a group of 20 people in Mizner's for an evening monopolizing the bar, wait staff and everything else. 80% of the bar's resources for that night are dedicated to those 20 people. But if they run up a tab of $15,000, they have out-contributed what they consumed.

OTOH, if they only run up a small tab, the dedication of services to this group of people was inefficient.

Can you share your insight into what leads you to this thought? It may be a bit premature to tell until they have the data that allows them to determine where their customers fall and they can make on-the-fly changes that focuses on the 20%.

I would say that the marginalization of AP holders and DVC members is a start. They are increasing costs for DVC holders, making it less economically efficient to actually own DVC, and especially inefficient by purchasing directly from Disney. A much smaller PAP discount this year. It really only makes sense if you're using the Water Parks and More option.

More generally, Disney will get more money from repeat visitors over the repeat visitor's lifetime. The more you go, the more money they get, even if you are an annual pass holder that goes every other weekend. If they are only focused on the one-time visitors, they are potentially losing money via a decreased focus on the repeat visitors. That potential exists insofar as it is possible to continue accruing one-time visitors.

I will readily admit that it's too early to tell if this is the case. Will FP+ encourage more first-timers to come back? Will someone who doesn't get to see the whole park be dissatisfied or want to come back to experience the rest? That's the real question. First-timers can only grow as a market up to a certain point. Given that attendance has been steadily increasing, I'd like to know how many are first-timers and how many are repeat guests. This whole thing can really only be known in the long-term and nothing concrete can be known right now.

However, it's my opinion that they aren't working to satisfy repeat customers as hard as they are to woo first-timers. And that really doesn't make sense to me given how hard they're pushing and investing in DVC.

 

[Planogirl]

I don't understand the FP+ lovers insisting we must give it a chance before we decide "to take our toys to a different sandbox". I know how we tour WDW and how we like to vacation at any destination. I know that the limit of 3 FP, the restriction of only being able to use it in one park, and the tiering does not work with how we like to tour WDW. I don't need to give it a chance to know that
And FTR, I don't like to be compared to a baby just because I'm not choosing to continue to support WDW after they change their "products and services" to something I know I will not enjoy. I guess it makes you feel better to insult us just because we are "attacking" your Disney. I think some of you need to step back from your Disney love if you can't accept critcism of that corporation's decisions

I agree. I don't have to travel to the dessert or Antarctica to know that I won't enjoy these places. These are extreme examples but I think that people in all cases have to weight the pros and cons of every destination and judge if it fits.