Direct Purchase benefits announced!

[Sammie]

I know that as consumers one should always look beyond what the company is selling, but regardless of what anyone says, Disney and DVC will tell you they sell magic, whether that is actually what they are selling or not.

per their website:

We Go Beyond Traditional Timeshare Programs
With a Disney Vacation Club timeshare, you can expect magical touches and friendly service at all of our Disney Vacation Club Resorts and other Disney destinations

.

I can guarantee you can go to another other timeshare website and you will not see the word magical used in their presentation.

What sets Disney Vacation Club apart from other vacation ownership programs? We call it the Disney Difference. It's the heritage, tradition and values that began with Walt himself, carried forth to the present.

I know many will say they were always just a timeshare company from the beginning, but I feel and your opinion might differ that until recently they did a very good job of hiding that image. I don't think they looked or acted like other timeshare companies.

Sure maybe it was all a facade just like Main Street is, but at least the facade was there.

I and many others I am sure feel like recently instead of walking down Main St looking at the beautiful facade, we are walking behind it and truly seeing that yes it is just another timeshare.

And sadly I think this is just the begining of becoming just another timeshare company.

And I have to agree with Joan, if they are just another timeshare company, they may see that many are not interested in "just another timeshare company."

 

[Joan of Arc]

i know that as consumers one should always look beyond what the company is selling, but regardless of what anyone says, disney and dvc will tell you they sell magic, whether that is actually what they are selling or not.

Per their website:

.

I can guarantee you can go to another other timeshare website and you will not see the word magical used in their presentation.



I know many will say they were always just a timeshare company from the beginning, but i feel and your opinion might differ that until recently they did a very good job of hiding that image. I don't think they looked or acted like other timeshare companies.

Sure maybe it was all a facade just like main street is, but at least the facade was there.

I and many others i am sure feel like recently instead of walking down main st looking at the beautiful facade, we are walking behind it and truly seeing that yes it is just another timeshare.

And sadly i think this is just the begining of becoming just another timeshare company.

And i have to agree with joan, if they are just another timeshare company, they may see that many are not interested in "just another timeshare company."

what he said

 

[Deb & Bill]

...I and many others I am sure feel like recently instead of walking down Main St looking at the beautiful facade, we are walking behind it and truly seeing that yes it is just another timeshare. ...

Kind of like paying for the Keys to the Kingdom tour. You pay a whole bunch and the magic is all gone.

 

[nolanboys]

Well put Sammie.

 

[JimMIA]

And this is where in lies the problem. How they sell and what they sell are starting to contradict each other.

Not "starting to contradict"...have always contradicted. Much of what they present is an illusion -- "smoke and mirrors," as some of our experienced timeshare experts have said on this thread. They're selling room-nights, represented by points. If anyone's buying anything else, that's not the fault of the timeshare salesman.

People will be able to see this much clearer with this selfish move.

Yeah...hopefully... And that would be a good thing, because a LOT of DVC owners purchased with their head in the clouds and their eyes full of pixie dust.

DVC is a very good timeshare system. But it's not the benevolent, loving, caring host a lot of people think it is.

That is why even those who bought just a timeshare like you, paid considerablly more to be closer to the magic. Its what its all about.

LOCATION is what it's all about, and that's what I bought. Location IS worth more. Disney theming IS worth more. The likelihood that Disney will not tolerate substandard accommodations in their onsite resorts IS worth more.

 

[JimMIA]

I would have to agree with you on this one but I don't believe Disney's intention when making decisions is to be perceived as a rodent that bites those that support them. And remember many rats and mice, end up in traps if they are not careful.....

Despite the inherent risks, rodents do better than most species. Rodents and cockroaches are among nature's greatest success stories...and there's a reason for that.

 

[Sammie]

Despite the inherent risks, rodents do better than most species. Rodents and cockroaches are among nature's greatest success stories...and there's a reason for that.

Ok now that was funny. I just can decide at this point who is the Rat and who is the Cockroach,

 

[Joan of Arc]

Despite the inherent risks, rodents do better than most species. Rodents and cockroaches are among nature's greatest success stories...and there's a reason for that.

And then came the ORKIN MAN

 

[JimMIA]

And sadly I think this is just the begining of becoming just another timeshare company.

I would argue that it's hardly the beginning...

And I have to agree with Joan, if they are just another timeshare company, they may see that many are not interested in "just another timeshare company."

I hope you're both right, and I think that would be a good thing. Some folks need to understand that there is no Fairy Godmother. Tink doesn't work at the Preview Center!

...and those who are looking for "just" a timeshare will find a good one in DVC.

 

[JimMIA]

And then came the ORKIN MAN

We're talking geologic time here. The Orkin Man is a flash in the pan.

 

[Joan of Arc]

We're talking geologic time here. The Orkin Man is a flash in the pan.

The Flash I like that..... Hey is that oak? I must admit I am not an entimologist or a rodentologist. ok I made that last one up

 

[Dean]

For those that are more knowledgeable then me regarding DVC and have thoughts on DVC's future building intentions of new resorts, could it be DVC's goal and objective to:

a) Minimize if not eliminate the costly building of new resorts (maybe they have reached the max that they can get for a point). I know I never would have bought at the current rates.

b) Put a plan in place to devalue members points.

c) Purchase devalued points through resale/ROFR.

d) Sell the points all over again at the price levels that appear to be a bit easier and still profitable to sell ($80 to $90 rather then over $100) with NO new building expenses. They can even extend the life of the older resorts.

Thoughts? I hate to think that this could be part of their plan, but as many continue to remind us, it is business.

Actually this move makes future resorts more likely, not less likely. Disney has never participated in points crepe where you essentially raise the price of a future option simply to make it more costly for present owners. Some may argue to the contrary with BLT, AKV, HI, etc but I think the inherent value of a stay at those locations fully explains the differences, not just a way to increase the cost. While I'm sure they'll buy back very low contracts, that is not the goal. The goal is that resale contracts don't sell and that all buyers buy retail. Obviously nothing is 100% but that's the ultimate goal. There really isn't real money to be made by DVD buying and reselling. Not enough margin, too many costs and they are competing with their newer retail products. It's a small fish in the big pond.

The whole thing is very disturbing and disappointing to me. Because of the negative changes (enhancements) over the last few years and now this, there is a big part of me that wishes I had stayed out of the timeshare market. I had a friend that was considering purchasing. I have shared this with them and they are pretty confident that they will not proceed as they cannot purchase prior to March 21 through resale and will not pay over $100 to Disney.

What negative changes. I can't think of a single change that was negative to the membership as a whole (reallocations, valet parking, 1 week reservation at a time). This is the only one that can be argued such and even then, it's c/w timeshare standards and something some of us have talked about her for years. Your friend is better off if they wait and purchase at a lower price plus DVD has forced them to make BETTER financial decisions of how to use their points and how many to purchase.

While legally they could probably make changes retroactively, if that was their long term plan, why would they have given any notice of the coming changes at all, and why not just go ahead and make those more drastic changes now?

Again, they are somewhat limited as to what they can change as far as the actual use of the timeshare. Any perks or outside destinations can change at any time for all members.

Technically and legally they could have made all such changes apply to current members as well.

LOSS of SALES for DVC

The history of other companies would suggest otherwise. While they may lose some, they will sell some retail they would not have done so previously. The net is almost certainly a significant gain and a fairly predictable one given their insider knowledge. Plus, they don't really care if a resale sells or not, only that someone pays the fees on it. The only neg affect to the system is delinquent fees and even that's not a biggie since you then can't use the points either.

Agreed to a point. Other timeshares are not Disney. What works for them may not work for DVC. Remember that DVC makes it easy easy easy to add on with no credit check, Just sign by the mouse ears and you are good to go. They have had a captured market by doing this with letting people have an out if needed. They will now loose that captured market. Will it be offset by fewer direct purchases? Time will tell on that one, but I doubt very strongly that other timeshares have had an owner add on market as strong as DVC. Seems to be a big gamble on their part. But hey, if it doesnt work out for them in their favor, they will change it back saying they are giving the owners what they are asking for. They always have an out.

I think you give the membership way too much credit. While there was a certain amount of uproar with the reallocation (for no good reason though) and claims of selling, etc; there's no evidence to suggest that enough people followed through to suggest it even made a dent, much less a real difference. I think more correctly, DVC is not the other timeshares. DVC has essentially sat by passively and hoped the product would sell itself. It did for some time except for HH & VB, but those days are gone. Expect more aggression from DVC from a sales standpoint going forward.

 

[Dean]

May make more owners who cant trade out book rooms and rent them, that cant be good for members or CRO.

Book and use is no different than book and rent from a usage standpoint.

I thought the POS guaranteed at least a one month home booking advantage, so how would they get round this?

It does for CURRENT owners at each resort. One way around it would be to create a NEW system which is trust based and with different rules, possibly with no home resort priority. You'd then allow each portion of the resort to run somewhat independently. Say OKW were half current contracts and half trust contracts, each group would have access to half the inventory. Just an example but given I don't think the current options alone will have enough of an effect, we will likely see some other change along this direction or intent going forward.

I certainly hope DVC clearly adds this to the 'Product Understanding Checklist' that we all received when we purchased. I'm sure it definitely won't be part of all that wonderful promotional literature they have with pictures of all those happy members strolling down Main Street with Mickey Mouse.....

I think it's effectively there already, certainly the info is covered adequately in the POS.

I did read the rules and no exactly what they say. Believe it or not I even did a chart regarding compounded increases on maintenance fees for the life of my timeshare!! Unfortunately the increases are happening at the rate we forecasted which is not such a good thing either for any of us owners.

Many people bought from Disney because they TRUST the product and believe they won't be taken advantage of by Disney. This is not the case with this latest negative change.

I think more correctly many people assumed changes would not happen because it's Disney but with no good legal or contractual basis. Therein lies the problem, everyone has different assumptions.

Personally I am sick and tired of going on these boards and discovering yet again another member enhancement has been announced. At 11:00pm the other night I almost fell off my chair when I read this one. What is going to be the next member enhancement to devalue our membership or make things more difficult?

Name one other thing you see as inappropriate or outside the contractual obligations. I can tell you that removal of valet, the reallocations and the 1 week reservations option would not qualify no matter how you felt about them personally.

My husband what's to know, so the logical step to get new direct customers is to take away benefits from current owner contracts if they should happen to have to sell by devaluing their ownership? That is good business? Does anyone remember the marketing/sales lesson in college about customer goodwill? Wasn't that course called Marketing 101 or was that the Business Ethics course that my husband and I took?

No benefits have been removed from current owners, even ones who bought resale. All that may have changed is that resale values will be modestly lower and there will also likely be a few less resale buyers. This is not a loss of benefits.

Many people don't just buy a timeshare from DVC they buy 'Disney Magic'. When the magic is gone so goes many buyers. Wonder what DVC's ROI will be if and when that happens???

Then they made assumptions that were simply not true. Shame on them. I know some got upset years ago when I said then that DVC was just a nice timeshare, but it was true when I bought in 1994, true when I made the statement the first time maybe 10 or 11 years ago and is still true today. Nothing has changed, Timeshares always change over time and usually for the worse. That's one of the reasons that it was foolish to average the cost of DVC over the entire length of the contract, 15-20 years is the longest one should go in figuring value.

 

[Dean]

And this is where in lies the problem. How they sell and what they sell are starting to contradict each other. People will be able to see this much clearer with this selfish move. We demand the Disney experience from every other part of our experience with them. That is why even those who bought just a timeshare like you, paid considerablly more to be closer to the magic. Its what its all about.

Have you ever been to a real high pressure timeshare sales presentation? Say 4 hours of beating on you by 3 or 4 different people who are really good at pressuring you. When it comes to timeshare sales and all related processes, Disney is a lightweight amateur. I know some like that fact but it was been costly to the members both in terms of the dues we pay and the off property resort options we had (and don't have).

I can guarantee you can go to another other timeshare website and you will not see the word magical used in their presentation.

Maybe, maybe not. Marriott's sales site
Bluegreen's sales site
Wyndham

I don't think there's any doubt that Disney has sold itself as a cut above and IMO, it still is in many ways. However, many made far too broad of assumptions in areas that were not protected legally and this was a mistake on the part of the buyer. Just walk onto a car lot and you'll see many of the same approaches.

 

[Joan of Arc]

Have you ever been to a real high pressure timeshare sales presentation? Say 4 hours of beating on you by 3 or 4 different people who are really good at pressuring you. When it comes to timeshare sales and all related processes, Disney is a lightweight amateur. I know some like that fact but it was been costly to the members both in terms of the dues we pay and the off property resort options we had (and don't have).

Maybe, maybe not. Marriott's sales site
Bluegreen's sales site
Wyndham

I don't think there's any doubt that Disney has sold itself as a cut above and IMO, it still is in many ways. However, many made far too broad of assumptions in areas that were not protected legally and this was a mistake on the part of the buyer. Just walk onto a car lot and you'll see many of the same approaches.[/Q

Comparing Disney sales tactics to car sales, that about sums up my argument. The only thing we differ on is that you dont seem to think that many owners bought out of brand trust and emotion. I think most owners do and DVC likes it that way. All I am saying again, with the new ENHANCEMENT of our ownership, owners will not buy into the promise of a magical timeshare as they once did. Owners will now see that DVC is operating at the level of car dealerships and thats not a compliment by any means.

 

[Dean]

Comparing Disney sales tactics to car sales, that about sums up my argument. The only thing we differ on is that you dont seem to think that many owners bought out of brand trust and emotion. I think most owners do and DVC likes it that way. All I am saying again, with the new ENHANCEMENT of our ownership, owners will not buy into the promise of a magical timeshare as they once did. Owners will now see that DVC is operating at the level of car dealerships and thats not a compliment by any means.

I've been chastised here in the past for comparing timeshare sales people to used car sales staff and I do think those from DVC are a cut or two above. It was just as true when I made the statement first years ago as it is now, all that's changed is that some are now realizing I was right. Overall, there are some good car sales, but many bad ones.

More correctly to my statements, I don't especially care nor think it matters what assumptions many made other than how it affects sales in the past and going forward and I think that is where we differ. While I'm sure some won't buy and some will sell due to this change, en-bloc, I don't think it'll have enough of an effect to matter on the negative side and will have a significant affect for increasing sales profits. Owners will still buy in/add on, people will still buy resale and many will still buy retail as their first purchase. Nothing will change in that regards, only some minor adjustments in the numbers. I will bet you it won't be 6 months before we see a post that someone bought retail because of this change and from someone else that bought resale also directly related to this change and the lower buy in cost (real or perceived).

 

[taaren]

The only thing we differ on is that you dont seem to think that many owners bought out of brand trust and emotion. I think most owners do and DVC likes it that way. All I am saying again, with the new ENHANCEMENT of our ownership, owners will not buy into the promise of a magical timeshare as they once did.

I bought with brand trust and emotion - I was extremely excited to prepay my vacations for the next 50 years. However, since I was plunking down a sum that was only slightly less than my last car purchase, I was also exercising some amount of common sense and reading the fine print, and knew what I was getting into and what I was _not_ getting into. I knew there were no guarantees beyond being able to book at my home resort, and having my points be worth the same amount of time at some point each year. I would hope that everybody that buys into DVC, or any timeshare, brings their financial prudence and practicality to the table as well as their emotion and brand trust. Unless they're the kind of people to whom $16-30K means nothing, in which case I can't begin to comprehend what they're feeling when they buy ...

 

[4Pluto]

Isn't it true that the magic is palpable This is not your typical company. Grown adults cry and what does that inspire? oh boy,I can buy a piece of magic for me and my family. That is why many of us buy. If DVC strips the magic little by little, there will only be a timeshare. Well, who cares about that?

Maybe a different way of putting this is that presumably those of us who bought at WDW did so to be near Disney. These aren't resorts that are by beaches or ski resorts. If Disney were not next door, there's no way I would have bought a timeshare in a central Florida swamp no matter how nice they made the kitchen counters or the sleeper couches. Which is to say that if Disney did something that lost the magic for us (and no, this change won't lose the magic for us), that would spoil the point of staying at a Disney resort. There aren't many other timeshares where the location is so intrinsically connected to the company offering the timeshares.

Conversely, Disney has a lot more to gain from happy timeshare occupants (at least at the themepark resorts) than other timeshare companies. When our family goes to Disney, we spend a couple thousand dollars on Disney tickets, Disney restaurants, and Disney souvenirs (there must be some point at which my nieces can no longer fit princess dresses in their closets . . .). When I stay at a Marriott timeshare I don't spend a nickel on any Marriott tickets, food or souvenirs (so far, a Marriott uniform doesn't compete with a Cinderalla dress). There is a benefit to Disney to keeping the magic going that isn't in the mix for other timeshare companies.

If Disney is continuing to expand beyond the parks, not just to Hawaii but to other locations, it may be that the synergy of drawing people into the parks and restaurants and theaters won't be as important to the timeshare arm of the company, but I gotta think that they would be just a little disappointed if we all showed up at BWV or SSR or the other Orlando resorts with our coolers of food, our WI's and Playstations and golf clubs and tennis rackets and didn't spend a penny in the parks, the restaurants or the shops.


Just saying.

 

[nyck]

I think you are so wrong. Plenty of people bought because they believed in the company. Just zip over to the cruise board and see how crazy people are to hear the new horn from the Disney Dream. No where do you see people going crazy to hear a ships horn,but disney's customer base. Disney sells dreams and magic and unfortunately may not be able to do so in the future. They will just sell a timeshare like all the others. Not why we chose them. I can get that any day of the week and at a lot less money. The magic is what commands the higher price and take that away and its just another timeshare.

I go on the cruises and it isn't because of the "magic". I just like to go on cruises. And it is something new. People are addicted to anything and everything so there are bound to be people wanting to get on it. When a new Carnival ship comes out I am sure there are people on a different cruise board raving about that too.

And I am very sorry, but if you choose to drop $5000-30,000 on a timeshare because of the "magic" then you are doomed for disappointment at some point whatever the change is. I expect a child or a teenager to say that, not a grown adult who knows the difference between fact and fiction. Magic isn't real, it is an illusion. Disney sells illusions, which an adult should recognize as just that. It is up to you to see past that and make an informed decision, especially if that is why you purchased DVC. If you wanted a piece of the Disney magic then you should have gotten that in writing, because that is not what my 2 contracts say at all.

 

[nyck]

I know that as consumers one should always look beyond what the company is selling, but regardless of what anyone says, Disney and DVC will tell you they sell magic, whether that is actually what they are selling or not.

per their website:

.

I can guarantee you can go to another other timeshare website and you will not see the word magical used in their presentation.



I know many will say they were always just a timeshare company from the beginning, but I feel and your opinion might differ that until recently they did a very good job of hiding that image. I don't think they looked or acted like other timeshare companies.

Sure maybe it was all a facade just like Main Street is, but at least the facade was there.

I and many others I am sure feel like recently instead of walking down Main St looking at the beautiful facade, we are walking behind it and truly seeing that yes it is just another timeshare.

And sadly I think this is just the begining of becoming just another timeshare company.

And I have to agree with Joan, if they are just another timeshare company, they may see that many are not interested in "just another timeshare company."

Marketing 101: Use fancy adjectives to describe your product to create a feeling of want and belonging to entice a sale. All of these bolded words are descriptive, not necessarly facts. When I spend $30,000 on something, I look at facts