Direct Purchase benefits announced!

[Sammie]

Marketing 101: Use fancy adjectives to describe your product to create a feeling of want and belonging to entice a sale. All of these bolded words are descriptive, not necessarly facts. When I spend $30,000 on something, I look at facts

We looked at facts, Fact: when we bought DVC was different.

Fact, that has changed, they are now just another timeshare.

Not saying that is a horrible thing, yet.

Judgement on that will be dependent on the next round of changes.

 

[maminnie]

It really is disturbing to have people over and over tell others that they did not read their contract. For fun I dug out of the back of my closet our notes/files from when we purchased our contracts.

I have an extremely highligted multi-site public offering with question marks in various places and six pages of questions that I asked our guide from condo fee increases, special assessments, what happens if people quit paying their fees, how inheritances are handled, the 252 rule and the 20% rule (bet some of you may not even know about these), condemnation issues (by the way this is on page 77 of the multisite public offering), the land lease (the answer to that is it is paid off), radon gas issues because we received an energy brochure (by the way we were told there were no issues with radon gas), how outstanding liens are handled, square footage of units versus the deluxe Disney hotel rooms, guest responsibility if something is broken, removal of DVC management (for inquiring minds this takes a 60% vote to remove them), etc., etc, etc. And low and behold here is one of the questions, deletion of resorts and the answer was do not anticipate. My guess is that I also discussed with them about changes to vacation opportunities and offerings in general and was likely told do not anticipate. I am a pretty i's dotted t's crossed sort of gal!

As far as condo fees not to ruin anyone's Saturday morning but the maintenance fee increases are close to what we calculated so a 3.93 per point condo fee in 2000 could be 13.22 by the year 2042 at a compounded rate of 3%. Hopefully the Disney central reservation room rate that started at $500 will be my calculated rate of $1013 by 2042 too. (Wanted to share something that might make us all feel better about my first statement.)

So I hope I have convinced some of your that we did do our homework when buying. Our complaints and subsequent passion regarding this change are not about my husband and I believing in magic, pixie dust, fairies, or even in that smiling mouse, it is that we did not believe DVC/Disney would purposely institute a policy that would quite possibly significantly devalue our membership should we have to sell. We felt that any increases or decreases would be because of availability of resales and new direct purchase properties and the state of the economy not Disney/DVC manipulation and greed. We unfortunately assumed that if vacation options and perks were lost it would be the membership as a whole not a specific sub-group designed to negatively impact the members who were once DVC's direct purchasers. I guess that is where we made our mistake.

All direct buyers should be warned and clearly educated by DVC regarding this issue should they too have to sell in the future. It may make one think more carefully about making that $100 plus per point investment.

 

[Joan of Arc]

I go on the cruises and it isn't because of the "magic". I just like to go on cruises. And it is something new. People are addicted to anything and everything so there are bound to be people wanting to get on it. When a new Carnival ship comes out I am sure there are people on a different cruise board raving about that too.

And I am very sorry, but if you choose to drop $5000-30,000 on a timeshare because of the "magic" then you are doomed for disappointment at some point whatever the change is. I expect a child or a teenager to say that, not a grown adult who knows the difference between fact and fiction. Magic isn't real, it is an illusion. Disney sells illusions, which an adult should recognize as just that. It is up to you to see past that and make an informed decision, especially if that is why you purchased DVC. If you wanted a piece of the Disney magic then you should have gotten that in writing, because that is not what my 2 contracts say at all.

No,other cruise lines dont have podcasts, aren't on Good Morning America, and people clammering down at Port Canaveral just to get a look at the newest ship. Disney stirs that kind of pot. Why do they command so much more money than others for the same products:Its the Disney difference! Ships, theme parks, timeshares can offer you the disney difference. What is that difference? A brand name that has reputation and trust behind it. Not everything you expect from Disney, be it in its parks, hotels, or ships is written in contracts. People still buy the products because although its not written in a contract that a theme park will be clean, or a ship will be maintained to the highest standards, people trust that these things will be part of their experience.WHY? Its the Disney difference. It has always been that way. You may think it is emature but, you buy into it as well. This is why you paid a lot more for a timeshare than others in the area. You want the Disney difference. I did read the contract as well. Some products including timeshares are sold not only based on a contract,but also on brand name and trust. Would I have trusted another company with my money for a timeshare NO. Do I think Disney will maintain my home resort to the highest standards YES. Is it spelled out in the contract that we signed that this will be done NO. But, its on Disney property and Disney would never allow delapitated old buildings next to their resorts. WHY its the Disney Difference. Does the contract say we bought a piece of the magic NO, But the box it comes in sure does. There is an inherenit amount of trust that you are placing in DVC, in addition to the contract. One does not expect that trust to broken with a selfish, greedy act by DVC, weather its in the contract or not.

 

[going/again]

The only logical step is to take perks away from resale to at least give the appearance that you are getting more by buying direct. .

Not the only alternative, they could have given more perks to direct owners, taking stuff away was the easy option.

 

[maminnie]

Not the only alternative, they could have given more perks to direct owners, taking stuff away was the easy option.

Good point...they could have added something new for the direct purchasers. That would have taken too much thought and creativity on their part. It might have cost them a couple of pennies.

 

[RescueRanger]

Not the only alternative, they could have given more perks to direct owners, taking stuff away was the easy option.

Adding perks that would be good enough to sway potential buyers would most likely cost DVC money. Why do you think they stopped the free valet parking? Taking away perks cost DVC nothing. Disney is not a charity. They are a business.

 

[going/again]

People will think twice about adding on resale because of the limitations. And you underestimate the power of international buyers, who are not going to want a "limited" membership and have better spending power than US consumers.

Sorry but I have to disagree, got a big compensation check coming next month, fully intend to spend it on more points, resale ones, purely because they are cheaper, already got direct ones, the limited membership you mention has no concern for us we only stay at SSR, none of the others appeal to us, UK owner

 

[going/again]

.not as buying magic,"

So why do the adverts say own a peice of the magic, maybe they need to change them to,

Own a piece of the magic .
buy resale not so much

 

[maminnie]

So why do the adverts say own a peice of the magic, maybe they need to change them to,

Own a piece of the magic .
buy resale not so much

Perfect!!!!!!!!!

 

[maminnie]

Hey here is a good one.....Disney/DVC timed this annoucement the same week as the christening cruise of the Disney Dream!!!! Disney/DCL has been all over the news spreading magic and pixie dust to all those who dare to dream......how coincidental!!!!!!!!!!!!

But be careful you don't buy resale after March 20th because that dream is over.....

 

[maminnie]

No,other cruise lines dont have podcasts, aren't on Good Morning America, and people clammering down at Port Canaveral just to get a look at the newest ship. Disney stirs that kind of pot. Why do they command so much more money than others for the same products:Its the Disney difference! Ships, theme parks, timeshares can offer you the disney difference. What is that difference? A brand name that has reputation and trust behind it. Not everything you expect from Disney, be it in its parks, hotels, or ships is written in contracts. People still buy the products because although its not written in a contract that a theme park will be clean, or a ship will be maintained to the highest standards, people trust that these things will be part of their experience.WHY? Its the Disney difference. It has always been that way. You may think it is emature but, you buy into it as well. This is why you paid a lot more for a timeshare than others in the area. You want the Disney difference. I did read the contract as well. Some products including timeshares are sold not only based on a contract,but also on brand name and trust. Would I have trusted another company with my money for a timeshare NO. Do I think Disney will maintain my home resort to the highest standards YES. Is it spelled out in the contract that we signed that this will be done NO. But, its on Disney property and Disney would never allow delapitated old buildings next to their resorts. WHY its the Disney Difference. Does the contract say we bought a piece of the magic NO, But the box it comes in sure does. There is an inherenit amount of trust that you are placing in DVC, in addition to the contract. One does not expect that trust to broken with a selfish, greedy act by DVC, weather its in the contract or not.

Believe or not I still have that box with all my member documents!!!!! I really do need to get some deep cleaning done around here rather then being on the disboards!!!

The pretty yellow DVC box reads "Making magic of your own". They can now add "you have that magic as a direct owner but if you have to sell your buyers only get a piece of the magic."

 

[going/again]

Adding perks that would be good enough to sway potential buyers would most likely cost DVC money. Why do you think they stopped the free valet parking? Taking away perks cost DVC nothing. Disney is not a charity. They are a business.

most likely you say, they must have a think tank that could of thought up some ideas to make direct more appealing, rather than making resale owners feel second class, FWIW all our current points are direct, will be buying resale next.

 

[CarolMN]

.....(snip).....we did not believe DVC/Disney would purposely institute a policy that would quite possibly significantly devalue our membership should we have to sell. We felt that any increases or decreases would be because of availability of resales and new direct purchase properties and the state of the economy not Disney/DVC manipulation and greed. We unfortunately assumed that if vacation options and perks were lost it would be the membership as a whole not a specific sub-group designed to negatively impact the members who were once DVC's direct purchasers. I guess that is where we made our mistake.........

I added the bolding because this is where I disagree with many here. I can't see how this change (removing the ability to book selected non-DVC options from resales) is going to cause a significant decrease in the value of a resale.

The economy and changes in the mortgage market have had a HUGE effect on prices. At some point, the expiring length of the contracts will also significantly impact resale value. The change scheduled for the end of March will be minuscule, if it can even be noticed.

Nearly all here agree that buying DVC to cruise or stay at a non-DVC resort is not a good value. So why are we assuming that those who go the resale route will place a significant value on that option? Markets are not like that. (Remember that the market didn't and still doesn't value the OKW extension at $15 per point even though that's what DVD said it was worth).

IMO, those who post about going resale are doing their homework and buying resale contracts to use at a DVC resort. They are not buying to cruise or stay at the Poly! The overall resale market will reflect the value of the contract.

The change will give DVD sales a "comeback" for those who take the tour and ask about resale. They are good at selling the "options" and "flexibility", but the informed buyer will "do the math". DVD will get a few more people going direct - the sales force can really make those expensive options sound wonderful. I actually hope they are successful. Then perhaps DVD won't feel the need to differentiate further.


The only perk I'd hate to see go is the AP discount. IMO, if they want to differentiate further, they should rearrange eligibility for some of the discounts, too.

As long as they don't change the booking windows, I not worried about resale values.

 

[Chuck S]

I still question what tangible, legal product you all define as "magic." It is like buying "blue sky."

Catch phrases used in marketing are exactly that, marketing. The only people that actually "own a piece" of the Disney magic are called Stockholders, and they actually have a legal right to expect the company to maximize profitability.

And just because many of you received "Do not anticipate" as an answer to a question does not in any way imply it can not or will not, happen....only that your guide did not have a working crystal ball to see the future. Things happen in life all the time that we "do not anticipate," some good, some bad. It simply means we didn't see them coming, and likely had no way of knowing.

I really doubt any of us actually anticipate most of what happens in our daily lives. Did most people 20 years ago anticipate the bankruptcy of GM, the mortgage banks failing, and the current high price of gas?

 

[Paging Tom Morrow]

Nearly all here agree that buying DVC to cruise or stay at a non-DVC resort is not a good value. So why are we assuming that those who go the resale route will place a significant value on that option?

Amen.

 

[RobDoc]

...All direct buyers should be warned and clearly educated by DVC regarding this issue should they too have to sell in the future. It may make one think more carefully about making that $100 plus per point investment.

That is the exact purpose of the documents. There is even a clause in there about the documents superceding any oral comments by a guide. If it's not in writing, it has no standing.

Many never read them to know what's actually included (or not). It is not Disney's responsibility to educate anyone, it's Disney's responsibility to sell their product. It is the buyers responsibility to understand what they are purchasing - resale included.

 

[maminnie]

I added the bolding because this is where I disagree with many here. I can't see how this change (removing the ability to book selected non-DVC options from resales) is going to cause a significant decrease in the value of a resale.

The economy and changes in the mortgage market have had a HUGE effect on prices. At some point, the expiring length of the contracts will also significantly impact resale value. The change scheduled for the end of March will be minuscule, if it can even be noticed.

Nearly all here agree that buying DVC to cruise or stay at a non-DVC resort is not a good value. So why are we assuming that those who go the resale route will place a significant value on that option? Markets are not like that. (Remember that the market didn't and still doesn't value the OKW extension at $15 per point even though that's what DVD said it was worth).

IMO, those who post about going resale are doing their homework and buying resale contracts to use at a DVC resort. They are not buying to cruise or stay at the Poly! The overall resale market will reflect the value of the contract.

The change will give DVD sales a "comeback" for those who take the tour and ask about resale. They are good at selling the "options" and "flexibility", but the informed buyer will "do the math". DVD will get a few more people going direct - the sales force can really make those expensive options sound wonderful. I actually hope they are successful. Then perhaps DVD won't feel the need to differentiate further.


The only perk I'd hate to see go is the AP discount. IMO, if they want to differentiate further, they should rearrange eligibility for some of the discounts, too.

As long as they don't change the booking windows, I not worried about resale values.

So many keep minimizing members use of points on DCL cruises but remember they just shut down the use of points on some 2011 cruises because they had reached capacity. I personally have used points on two DCL cruises and would not want to lose that option should I wish to do so. I may have an abundence of points next year and I may just decide rather then lose the points or enter the rental market, lets go on a 4 day cruise if I can get it at the time I am able to make that decision.

I personally don't use the wonderful AP discount as I don't have the luxury and flexibility to go to Disney multiple times of the year (airfare, time off, and kid's schedules are the biggest problems).

Once again had all members lost these perks, it would have been one thing. But to take things away from a sub-group with possibly the hope to devalue the per point resale value, was shaddy IMHO.

 

[babydoll]

I need to read these boards more often. I had no idea this was in the works. We've been considering selling our timeshare but the $/point at the timeshare store is so low the timing just didn't seem right. I think this is going to lower the point value even more. Not much notification for a change like this-should have been 6 months at least to allow people a chance to sell if they wanted before this new rule kicked in.

I'm losing the "magic"

Mary

 

[CarolMN]

So many keep minimizing members use of points on DCL cruises but remember they just shut down the use of points on some 2011 cruises because they had reached capacity. I personally have used points on two DCL cruises and would not want to lose that option should I wish to do so. I may have an abundence of points next year and I may just decide rather then lose the points or enter the rental market, lets go on a 4 day cruise if I can get it at the time I am able to make that decision.

I personally don't use the wonderful AP discount as I don't have the luxury and flexibility to go to Disney multiple times of the year (airfare and time off is the biggest problem).

Once again had all members lost these perks, it would have been one thing. But to take things away from a sub-group with possibly the hope to devalue the per point resale value, was shaddy IMHO.

I know that many members do use points to cruise. That doesn't change the value proposition going forward. In most cases, it is NOT a good value to pay for cruises with points. Members who buy DVC to cruise, whether it be direct or resale, are making a poor economic choice. IMO, most who buy resale are very rational and have not and will not buy to cruise. So there is no reason to suppose that the resale market will fall.

The value proposition is different for those who have already purchased and occasionally use their points to cruise. They have NOT lost a thing.

I do remember the limitation on cruising (although I think that the main reason the limit was reached at all was due to the cruise incentive DVD offered new purchasers. I do not think the limit will be such an issue in the future unless DVD goes back to that incentive).

Consider this: If resale points are no longer allowed to book cruises, perhaps availability will increase for the grandfathered points and those who purchase direct. The cost of cruising may also go down, since DVC will not have to send so many villas over to CRO to get the $$ to pay for the cruises. Less availability of cash DVC villas means less discounting required to rent them, too.

 

[maminnie]

I need to read these boards more often. I had no idea this was in the works. We've been considering selling our timeshare but the $/point at the timeshare store is so low the timing just didn't seem right. I think this is going to lower the point value even more. Not much notification for a change like this-should have been 6 months at least to allow people a chance to sell if they wanted before this new rule kicked in.

I'm losing the "magic"

Mary

Disney's timing was masterful.....bad economy, large number of resales on the market, and even the same week as the christening cruise of the DCL Dream (a perk that resale consumers now lose). Two months to react is unfair IMHO but according to the contract they didn't have to give us any advance notification. I expected more from Disney but that is where I went wrong.