Direct Purchase benefits announced!

[Dean]

WOW ! Maybe I am looking at this picture in the "long run" wrong......some one tell me that I am not, here goes;
Let say after that March cut off date, or any time there after , you get hard up for cash and you are force to sale and you go sale resale, what is your pts. value going to be worth. To me it looks like not very much.It looks like to me that DVC took the great impact of going to buy resale rather than DVC off the table.So to get as they say "all the bells and whisles", [every thing that is cutoff in March] by DvC you are forced to buy from them.........and there prices will go up more in no time. While the poor sucker can not get much at all trying to sale his on the resale market. CPA's Lawyers ....people in the "know"....tell me I am wrong.

Technically that has always been the case. My best guess is that once thing's settle out we'll see a $5-10 reduction for most contracts, maybe a little more for the higher ones like BLT, BCV, etc. It may take a little longer to sell as well with a portion of potential buyers moving to retail purchases. If DVC were to abandon ROFR, it would have a much larger impact on sales long term than this change.

Also, wouldn't it be amazing if ROFR suddenly takes about two months to complete so that no one purchasing a resale now closes before the deadline?

They don't have that option unless the broker is asleep at the wheel. You don't have to have ROFR to close, only give them the 30 opportunity.

Some have said this will have an effect on everyone and that's likely true but the effect will be positive for some. The only negative effect is for those looking to sell in the future, for most it's just a paper loss in a system that should never have been looked at as an investment. For some, it will be a buying opportunity.

I don't like the idea of "second class" ownership for resale purchasers. I think Disney is doing it more for it's benefit than our benefit. That being said, it doesn't surprise me.

If you look at what's being eliminated, it is the options where Disney gets the point then turns around and rents those units to the general public. Over the long run, this will lead to fewer points being used for Disney Collection, Cruises, etc. Which in turn would be fewer points for Disney to need to rent out.

RCI on the other hand is an exchange between members of DVC and members of a different timeshare. Disney is only acting as an intermediary between the owner and RCI. RCI is doing most of the work. I also wonder if RCI's contract with DVC grants membership to all owners and until the contract comes up for renewal they can't make changes to it.

IMO, one has to have the ability to look at the big picture and overlook certain issues to even participate in timesharing, DVC and otherwise. An extension of your second paragraph is that it's entirely possible that qualified members will see a better exchange rate in the future looking at those cash type exchanges, hopefully enough to make it a reasonable options for once. I'm sure the RCI contract does extend to all DVC members and if DVC's contract is like the one's I am familiar with, to exclude some members would likely cost DVC/DVD money, even after any renewal.

I know some find this a slap in the face but I believe it will strengthen DVD as a company going forward. Better to have a job at 80% pay than no job at all so to speak.

 

[nyck]

While we all bought for different reasons, I have used my points for DCL, Disney Collection and Concierge Collection, so I am glad that I have what I have. Yes it may be a waste of points sometimes, but I don't feel like doing a contract and renting points and all that crap, so it is worth it to me. I go to WDW every 6 months thanks to DVC, but like doing other things with my membership as well. People say it doesn't effect them now, but you don't know how you will feel 10 years from now and you have a hard time selling this because it is worth less. This is an emotional purchase and people underestimate that. If a DVC sales person is telling you that if you buy resale your membership wil be "limited" compared to a direct purchase, people will buy. Most of them won't even know that you can "rent points" out and the amount they go for. Not every or potential member is on these boards, so I think the resale market will be low.

 

[Jason@dvcstore]

Am kind of wondering if everything between now and March will be ROFR'd.

At The Timeshare Store, Inc.® we sold around 1800 contracts in 2010 and Disney hasn't bought any property back except for Beach Club since February of 2010.

Disney also just waived on 17 more contracts this evening. I personally think Disney has plenty of their own inventory at this point and are not looking to purchase back any contracts.

Jason

 

[Dean]

I don't use my points for anything but stays in DVC resorts; however, what bothers me is that what I contracted for is no longer what I will be able to convey. My contracts included whatever benefits that exist or would exist in the future, since the benefits could be changed. They are now saying I can't sell what I purchased. I have no problem with the elimination or altering of benefits for all members but not the unilateral changing of my contracts which included whatever exists at the time. What I can buy on 3/15 is what I should be able to sell on 3/25. This change should only apply to direct sales and resales after the effective date.

All you can sell is what you own, a single timeshare contract. The perks, exchange options, etc are not and never were contractual and a retail purchaser acknowledged that in writing and a resale buyer technically and legally assumes those limitations as well. You did not contract for those other options, they were handed to you as value added options with the express understanding that they could change or be eliminated without notice. Any position to the contrary, including the position that all have to be treated equally, are simply not accurate. IMO, this is a move they should have done at the onset or many years ago. Members may see it as a negative move but the reality is this is a positive move from a business standpoint.

At The Timeshare Store, Inc.® we sold around 1800 contracts in 2010 and Disney hasn't bought any property back except for Beach Club since February of 2010.

Disney also just waived on 17 more contracts this evening. I personally think Disney has plenty of their own inventory at this point and are not looking to purchase back any contracts.

Jason

I think it's almost time for lowball offers.

 

[johde]

IMO, one has to have the ability to look at the big picture and overlook certain issues to even participate in timesharing, DVC and otherwise. An extension of your second paragraph is that it's entirely possible that qualified members will see a better exchange rate in the future looking at those cash type exchanges, hopefully enough to make it a reasonable options for once. I'm sure the RCI contract does extend to all DVC members and if DVC's contract is like the one's I am familiar with, to exclude some members would likely cost DVC/DVD money, even after any renewal.

To put it blatently, Disney having fewer point rent out for cash would mean fewer rooms available for the value to DVC studio upgrades that have happened from time to time over the past few years. This change isn't going to happen overnight though but over the long run.

 

[Jason@dvcstore]

I think it's almost time for lowball offers.

At The Timeshare Store, Inc.® a buyer is welcome to make any offer. We would submit the offer to the seller and they will either accept, counter or they might be firm at their price.

I guess "lowball offers" might be a matter of opinion but we have been dealing with "lowball offers" since we opened. Recently I submitted an offer of $50 a point for a Beach Club property. The Beach Club seller did not accept this offer but simply said they were firm at their price.

Even though ROFR may not exist DVC sellers are still looking to sell their property for what they perceive as the current market value (of course, this can be a matter of opinion as well.)

Jason

 

[CPTJAK]

I think that there may be impact to non DVCers who exchange through RCI. I think there may be less DVC units available to exchange.

If resale (after March 20 close) can no longer use for non DVC than DVC will have less units to bulk deposit into RCI. On the otherhand DVC units should become even more valuable as traders.

Also this may just be the frist step of limiting resale benefits, similar to other timeshare orgs.

 

[CPTJAK]

At The Timeshare Store, Inc.® a buyer is welcome to make any offer. We would submit the offer to the seller and they will either accept, counter or they might be firm at their price.

I guess "lowball offers" might be a matter of opinion but we have been dealing with "lowball offers" since we opened. Recently I submitted an offer of $50 a point for a Beach Club property. The Beach Club seller did not accept this offer but simply said they were firm at their price.

Even though ROFR may not exist DVC sellers are still looking to sell their property for what they perceive as the current market value (of course, this can be a matter of opinion as well.)

Jason

I would think that there will be a significant decrease in value after March 20 or maybe already with all the uncertainity. We saw the samething with Marriott and their new point program..resale prices have gone down.

Today's low ball offer maybe tomorrow's high bid. You may want to inform your sellers that the price they get in the next week or so maybe the best they will ever see......

 

[Jason@dvcstore]

I would think that there will be a significant decrease in value after March 20 or maybe already with all the uncertainity. We saw the samething with Marriott and their new point program..resale prices have gone down.

Today's low ball offer maybe tomorrow's high bid. You may want to inform your sellers that the price they get in the next week or so maybe the best they will ever see......

The Timeshare Store, Inc.® wishes we knew exactly what is going to happen to the resale prices beginning on March 20th. We are informing the sellers of the announcement, however, we are letting them make the decision as to what they think will happen to the prices after March 20th. The Timeshare Store, Inc.® doesn't want to give the impression we know exactly what will happen with the prices in the future. We are, however, trying to do our best to let buyers and sellers know of the announcement.

Disney Vacation Club just did a large amount advertising for The Timeshare Store, Inc.® with this announcement as they let all members know there is a secondary market. We are getting a number of owners who have never contacted us or knew we existed calling us asking a questions. Some of this owners have never used their points for the Concierge Collection, the Disney Collection or the Adventurer Collection. These members are excited to find they can now buy more points they need for a lot less then buying from Disney.

Only time will tell what exactly will happen with the resale market after March 20th, 2011. Be advised The Timeshare Store, Inc.® doesn't plan on going anywhere though. We still plan on helping out those that need to sell their DVC and if anyone out there plans on becoming an owner after March 20th, 2011 or wants to add on to their current membership knowing they can't use the Concierge Collection, the Disney Collection or the Adventurer Collection feel free to give us a call.

Jason

 

[BWV Dreamin]

A resales contract will only be worth what someone is willing to pay for it. If these contracts are now " perceived" to be worth less after March 20, you will surely start to see " lowball" offers. If these offers persist or become greater in number, sellers will have no choice but to accept these offers to sell. There is nothing driving prices up, only lower. Now, if DVC were to limit resales points to home resorts only, this trend would dramatically reverse itself for the smaller resorts.

At The Timeshare Store, Inc.® a buyer is welcome to make any offer. We would submit the offer to the seller and they will either accept, counter or they might be firm at their price.

I guess "lowball offers" might be a matter of opinion but we have been dealing with "lowball offers" since we opened. Recently I submitted an offer of $50 a point for a Beach Club property. The Beach Club seller did not accept this offer but simply said they were firm at their price.

Even though ROFR may not exist DVC sellers are still looking to sell their property for what they perceive as the current market value (of course, this can be a matter of opinion as well.)

Jason

 

[Dean]

To put it blatently, Disney having fewer point rent out for cash would mean fewer rooms available for the value to DVC studio upgrades that have happened from time to time over the past few years. This change isn't going to happen overnight though but over the long run.

I don't see this as a bad thing, just like I don't see less points traded for cash options as a bad thing for DVD, DVC or the members in general.

At The Timeshare Store, Inc.® a buyer is welcome to make any offer. We would submit the offer to the seller and they will either accept, counter or they might be firm at their price.

I guess "lowball offers" might be a matter of opinion but we have been dealing with "lowball offers" since we opened. Recently I submitted an offer of $50 a point for a Beach Club property. The Beach Club seller did not accept this offer but simply said they were firm at their price.

Even though ROFR may not exist DVC sellers are still looking to sell their property for what they perceive as the current market value (of course, this can be a matter of opinion as well.)

Jason

Can we say $15-20 a point or less, LOL. To be honest, I'm a little tongue in cheek but honestly I'm sure it will happen.

 

[RescueRanger]

It's probably an inconsequential deletion as far as annual member usage goes, but it does the one and only thing necessary: allows the salespeople to say there's a benefit to buying direct and a downside to buying resale.


My complaint:
the hints of tiered benefits but no actual declaration. It would be nice to know if what the levels of tier-ing will be and if they'll have any significant benefit.

Those members who may be short by 80 pts. or whatever to the next tier should have the option of adding on via resale now, and making an informed decision based on what has yet to be announced.




Am kind of wondering if everything between now and March will be ROFR'd.

I could be wrong; however, I am willing to bet that if DVC comes out with a tiered Loyalty Program, only points from direct sales will be used to determine eligibility. I don't see them grandfathering for such a program. This is pure specualtion on my part, but that is my opinion.

 

[dis-happy]

Surely you do not think they would make it easy for you the member, that would defeat the purpose of doing all this.
Make resale less attractive first, then after that, announce the tier benefits for members, which I am sure we will hear nothing about until this March date passes.

That way they will tempt you to add on direct from them.

Smart like a fox.

No, but a girl can dream of a perfect world.

They DID announce coming tiered benefits back in December...no mention of this though.


So now I'm wondering if Disney will be going to the opposite extreme of ROFR and become completely hands off. Just let the resale market fall wherever it will. The $100 bid on ebay as someone tries to dump their timeshare may exist one day.

And the Guides that say "Beach Club" (or whatever) is sold out and can't be sold to a first time purchaser....wonder if that will stick. With no resale options a new buyer has no other choice but to buy whatever is currently for sale. Aulani anyone?

 

[dj~merlin]

never claim to be an english professor. but i saw you got the
message. let me guess...you have resales points?

apples & oranges. one can brag about paying less for resales
& then claimed their points are just as valauble as those
paying top dollar for blt? ssr points $55 vs. $117 for blt?
which ones are worth more?

and there are many , many corrective measures that can be done.

as for damages, i am expecting those tearing up the property
to be held accountable instead of rasing our dues.

oh, the best wat to influence others is a positive message not
negative &/or defensive.

 

[MrShiny]

My prediction: prices will dip initially (but of course ROFR will create a bottom), but then there will be so many great deals it will go right back up! Ask me in a year!

 

[calypso726]

apples & oranges. one can brag about paying less for resales
& then claimed their points are just as valauble as those
paying top dollar for blt? ssr points $55 vs. $117 for blt?
which ones are worth more?

Value is in the eye of the beholder. But as for which one is "worth more". I'm going to say the SSR @ $55 pp. If I bought SSR @ that price and I now have to turn around and sell these points in a devalued resale market after March 20, I am assuming I will probably take a loss of about $10 per point. If I bought BLT at $117 and have to sell I will take a greater loss. Just looking at the ROFR board BLT has been selling pre "restriction on resale announcement" for $92 to $100 pp. That is already a $17 loss per point looking at the high end. Add the devaluation that will occur on anything selling past March 20th and I am taking a much greater loss on the BLT points. In all likelihood more than double what I will lose on the SSR points.

For the record: I own more direct points than I own resale points.

 

[MrShiny]

It's hard to call it a "loss" when you had the use of those points for all the years you owned.

And the thing to remember here is Disney still controls the minimum resale price!

 

[maminnie]

DVC may have done themselves a a bit of a dis-service as well....this may deter some people from also buying direct from DVC as there are significant negative ramifications if they want or have to sell in the future on the resale market. As we know, there are unfortunately many people in the position of having to sell at this point.

Very disappointed in this latest change and the lack of a fair and adequate amount of time to make a good decision as to what to do with our vacation interest as they call it. Nothing surprises me from DVC at this point......

 

[deide71]

DVC may have done themselves a a bit of a dis-service as well....this may deter some people from also buying direct from DVC as there are significant negative ramifications if they want or have to sell in the future on the resale market. As we know, there are unfortunately many people in the position of having to sell at this point.

Very disappointed in this latest change and the lack of a fair and adequate amount of time to make a good decision as to what to do with our vacation interest as they call it. Nothing surprises me from DVC at this point......

I've just been lurking through what...all 16 pages of this thread. You very simply summed up my feelings exactly!

 

[lonebadger]

if they grandfather purchases in before 3/20/11. is it still worth buy. My family enjoy staying at places like Grand Flordian. is it tough getting a reservation at those places?