Difference between the fires and Katrina

[mickeyfan2]

And as for your first statement - the levees failed and the "bowl" filled up. It wasn't a tsunami, and it took a lot longer than 2 seconds.

Actually it only took about 2 seconds. My friend's BIL is a NOLA Fireman, so he was required to stay. He called my friend to recount this story as well as let him know that he and the family were fine.

He took his family to a safe place and then returned to their home. He kept the family dog with him. He was napping on his couch when the dog started barking. He sat up and he was ankle deep in water. In a few seconds the water was at the 1st floor ceiling. He is an expert swimming and went to the ceiling to get a breath then grabbed the dog and they got to the stairs to the second floor. I forget how far into the second floor the water rose. He opened a window and climbed onto his roof. The male neighbor, his was alone (maybe took his family to safety?) told him to wait on his roof for help. The firefighter said what help? Who knows we are here. He said the water was now calm and not longer rising. He, the neighbor and the dog swam to safety. Since I am sure you are all convinced that hhe NOLA fireman is a white man; well he is not, he is a black man who saved his family, his neighbor and his pets.

 

[KariC]

Actually it only took about 2 seconds. My friend's BIL is a NOLA Fireman, so he was required to stay. He called my friend to recount this story as well as let him know that he and the family were fine.

He took his family to a safe place and then returned to their home. He kept the family dog with him. He was napping on his couch when the dog started barking. He sat up and he was ankle deep in water. In a few seconds the water was at the 1st floor ceiling. He is an expert swimming and went to the ceiling to get a breath then grabbed the dog and they got to the stairs to the second floor. I forget how far into the second floor the water rose. He opened a window and climbed onto his roof. The male neighbor, his was alone (maybe took his family to safety?) told him to wait on his roof for help. The firefighter said what help? Who knows we are here. He said the water was now calm and not longer rising. He, the neighbor and the dog swam to safety. Since I am sure you are all convinced that hhe NOLA fireman is a white man; well he is not, he is a black man who saved his family, his neighbor and his pets.

just curious....why would anyone assume this guy is white? how in the world is that relevant?

 

[bsnyder]

I answered this already..Those in a position to, should have evacuated. There were thousands who were not in any position to do so for a variety of reasons..Go back and read the posts. Painting them all as welfare taking, gang banging, rapist hiding in bathrooms, is a little insensitive, don't you think? How about the people in the hospitals that were euthanized for God's sake. How can you, for a minute, excuse the inabilty of FEMA to get water to people for 5 days? There is no excuse.

Is it really your contention that current hospital disaster plans should rely totally on FEMA to bring them water immediately after a disaster?

 

[LakeAriel]

Actually it only took about 2 seconds. My friend's BIL is a NOLA Fireman, so he was required to stay. He called my friend to recount this story as well as let him know that he and the family were fine.

He took his family to a safe place and then returned to their home. He kept the family dog with him. He was napping on his couch when the dog started barking. He sat up and he was ankle deep in water. In a few seconds the water was at the 1st floor ceiling. He is an expert swimming and went to the ceiling to get a breath then grabbed the dog and they got to the stairs to the second floor. I forget how far into the second floor the water rose. He opened a window and climbed onto his roof. The male neighbor, his was alone (maybe took his family to safety?) told him to wait on his roof for help. The firefighter said what help? Who knows we are here. He said the water was now calm and not longer rising. He, the neighbor and the dog swam to safety. Since I am sure you are all convinced that hhe NOLA fireman is a white man; well he is not, he is a black man who saved his family, his neighbor and his pets.

There many unsung heroes during that devastation..bless them all!

 

[hiwaygal]

How can you, for a minute, excuse the inabilty of FEMA to get water to people for 5 days? There is no excuse.

Again this comment comes from someone who obviously does not live in an area that is prone to hurricanes.

We are ALWAYS told to have enough supplies (including food and water) to last 3-5 days if a storm is approaching. This is one of the basic "rules" for survival. NO was the worst possible scenario and even supplies for 3-5 days wasn't enough...but it certainly would have helped.

We are told that "help" may not be able to get in for at least 3-5 days. This is a known quantity.

When Isabel hit our area, it took the government agencies more than a week to arrive with food/water/ice for those who were at shelters. And our area was no where near as badly devastated as NO.

It's common sense for someone who lives in the area to KNOW how this stuff works.

 

[LukenDC]

California is a much wealthier state than Louisiana. My guess is that CA also has much better disaster preparedness due to the earthquake threat and past wildfire tragedies. It is also easier to respond to a wildfire than it is to a hurricaine.

 

[meandtheguys2]

California is a much wealthier state than Louisiana. My guess is that CA also has much better disaster preparedness due to the earthquake threat and past wildfire tragedies. It is also easier to respond to a wildfire than it is to a hurricaine.

Exactly. The people in the shelters aren't still in the midst of the disaster. Nothing will keep supplies out...it is an apple to orange comparison. And, as soon as they are out of harm's way, the CA people are landing with friends and family, oftentimes. Because those people live outside the danger area.

 

[KariC]

Again this comment comes from someone who obviously does not live in an area that is prone to hurricanes.

We are ALWAYS told to have enough supplies (including food and water) to last 3-5 days if a storm is approaching. This is one of the basic "rules" for survival. NO was the worst possible scenario and even supplies for 3-5 days wasn't enough...but it certainly would have helped.

We are told that "help" may not be able to get in for at least 3-5 days. This is a known quantity.

When Isabel hit our area, it took the government agencies more than a week to arrive with food/water/ice for those who were at shelters. And our area was no where near as badly devastated as NO.

It's common sense for someone who lives in the area to KNOW how this stuff works.

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/HAW2/english/prepare/family_plan.shtml

well, it's all spelled out here.....and it's the same stuff they say on the tv (ad infinitum when a storm is approaching), in the paper, on the radio, in the kids' schools, etc. So... ANY ABLE-BODIED person should be prepared, or they should consider moving out of a potential disaster zone.

 

[ExPirateShopGirl]

[QUOTE="Got Disney";21445732]Where is this at???? what area? Glad to here you are back in your home. I am watching the Harris fire out my bedroom window right know as it heads into Rancho SanDiego/Steel canyon High School.

They are setting backfires with flares in hopes of stoping it from heading down and crossing the 94.[/QUOTE]

We are in Rolling Hills Ranch, right up against the southwest corner of Mt. San Miguel. The fire you see is the FIRST backfire they lit for the Harris Ranch fire, but it blew out of control, jumped Proctor Valley Road and headed over the mountain and down to Sweetwater Reservoir. It subsequently became known as the Mt. Miguel fire... go figure.

I'm no fireman... but even I can figure out that 53 mph Santa Ana winds and controlled burns don't go hand in hand...

Schools are closed all week, so DD13 gets to accompany me to Chicago today, on the trip I was supposed to take Monday.

Good luck in RSD. I'm sure they've evacuated Steele Canyon HS by now.

 

[Keli]

I believe the difference comes down to leadership at the local and state level. CA leadership has a plan and unfortunately, a lot of experience, to deal with this situation. It's like a well oiled machine. So they are not rejecting federal help, they are using it where it's needed most. Because they know where it's needed most and they know all their other needs and have them prioritized.
LA didn't have an effective plan and no experience in dealing with a catastrophe of that level. It was inevitable that they would make mistakes. It was unbelievable that they made so many huge, stupid ones. Partly their mistakes must be blamed on inexperience and partly on incompetence.
I don't believe good leadership at the local and state level would have prevented all of the issues but it would have dramatically lessened the severity of nearly all of them.

 

[LuvDuke]

What does this have to do with Bush's approval ratings?

That's the percentage of Planet Bush residents who still support him.

 

[mickeyfan2]

just curious....why would anyone assume this guy is white? how in the world is that relevant?

Because many say that the black males did not help only the white males.

 

[LuvDuke]

It really has become predictable. Regardless of the topic, there is guaranteed to be some comment about "Planet Bush" or the "24 percent". Doesn't matter how irrelevant it is to the conversation.

It certainly has become predictable.

 

[Mr Man]

It really has become predictable. Regardless of the topic, there is guaranteed to be some comment about "Planet Bush" or the "24 percent". Doesn't matter how irrelevant it is to the conversation.

Yes, I was wondering how long it was going to take for Pres. Bush to be mentioned by the "haters".

Living proof it is possible to be so "open minded" that your brains fall out.

 

[Mr. Sunshine]

unsubscribing.

 

[eclectics]

Actually it only took about 2 seconds. My friend's BIL is a NOLA Fireman, so he was required to stay. He called my friend to recount this story as well as let him know that he and the family were fine.

He took his family to a safe place and then returned to their home. He kept the family dog with him. He was napping on his couch when the dog started barking. He sat up and he was ankle deep in water. In a few seconds the water was at the 1st floor ceiling. He is an expert swimming and went to the ceiling to get a breath then grabbed the dog and they got to the stairs to the second floor. I forget how far into the second floor the water rose. He opened a window and climbed onto his roof. The male neighbor, his was alone (maybe took his family to safety?) told him to wait on his roof for help. The firefighter said what help? Who knows we are here. He said the water was now calm and not longer rising. He, the neighbor and the dog swam to safety. Since I am sure you are all convinced that hhe NOLA fireman is a white man; well he is not, he is a black man who saved his family, his neighbor and his pets.

It's amazing that there are people who still think the people in NO had all the time in the world to leisurely make their way up to safety.
And in response to those who keep insisting these people were stupid to stay, when, for years, it's been drummed into their head that they are safe and well protected and the levees will not fail, then to suddenly be told no, sorry, we made a mistake you HAVE to evacuate now, well....I would be a bit confused also as to what to do. Add to that, no car, no money, can't take your pets, afraid of what others might do to your property if you leave, etc. I can totally see why a lot of them stayed put. And I think it's sad that there seems to be this undercurrent that they got what they deserved because they chose to stay.

 

[What the Heck]

How can you, for a minute, excuse the inabilty of FEMA to get water to people for 5 days? There is no excuse.

How can you, for a minute, keep harping that it was FEMA's responsibility to get water to the people for 5 days? This was a state run rescue, this was state employees who turned away the trucks from Walmart, etc from entering NO. Anything to stay part of the other 24%.

 

[hiwaygal]

All I can say is, if the weathermen here were telling me that a CAT 4 storm is about to make a direct hit within the next 72 hours, you best believe I'm getting the hell out and taking my dogs with me. But what do I know...the worst I've ever experienced was Hurricane Floyd and Hurricane Isabel. It amazes me that all these folks who have no clue how it all really works will condemn those who make disaster plans as coldhearted and unfeeling because we actually pay attention to the warnings.

Personally, I think the biggest difference in these two catastrophies is that people KNOW they cannot survive a fire/smoke. So they will leave.

They THINK they can survive some wind/rain/flood so they stay...and then are surprised when they realize that wind/rain/flood is a heck of a lot more damaging than they thought.

 

[What the Heck]

I love how threads like this bring out the Planet Bush people. It serves as a good reminder of what life is like on Planet Bush.

Hell, the Planet Bush response to this thread could be even be classified as a public service.

You know I miss the old threads when you would provide quality responses, even if I didn't agree with them. This calling anyone who stands up for the President for a situation and turning it into they must be standing up for him no matter what the sitatution is really getting old.

War on Iraq and the evidence to get there? Blast away. Just because he is wrong on one doesn't make it his fault for everything. I have stood my ground on Katrina since 2005. And no one from the left, not even the staunchiest of that 24% has ever answered this question:

If you think Bush is such an idiot, why do you want to give him dictotorial powers over the entire United States? The powers those from the left blast him for not using are powers that he is not allowed to use in the Constitution. You would have, in effect, given him powers to federalize and declare martial law for any situation that should be handled by local authorities - any situation, such as a traffic light going out. I've been waiting for an answer on that one for 2 years.

 

[LakeAriel]

How can you, for a minute, keep harping that it was FEMA's responsibility to get water to the people for 5 days? This was a state run rescue, this was state employees who turned away the trucks from Walmart, etc from entering NO. Anything to stay part of the other 24%.

FEMA: Federal Emergency Management Agency.

That's their job.