Difference between the fires and Katrina

[DVC Sadie]

Okay, I kinda figured I was, I just wanted to put that out there just incase. Like I said, I heard it from a conspiracy nut so I took it with a grain of salt!

There are enough nuts on both sides of the aisle!

Maybe I am dreaming, but I wish the moderates of both sides could/would work together and actually help fix the problems in the US instead of politicizing and spinning for their "fringe" groups.

 

[yeartolate]

Challenge accepted (I really need to get a life )

I'm trying to point out that he doesn't deserve the lions share of the blame. He doesn't deserve the majority of the blame. Many of the things he has been blamed for by the press, by the Democrats, are things that were not his fault or his responsibility.

Like your last sentance. That is a 24% sentance, all or nothing. In general, I believe you are right, George Bush is going to end up as one of the worst presidents in our history, as poor as Carter (although I don't think he will be listed as worst than Carter, inside information on that). However, in the case of Katrina, history will be very kind in my opinion. The quotes I listed were from 3 people on this thread - but go to the threads from the Hurricane Katrina area and there will be 100's (ok, maybe 10's, but the majority of posters) who were pissed at the inaction of the federal government. When I pointed out then that it wasn't his responsibility, that he didn't have the authority I was brushed off as being one of the 39% at that time.

His leadership sucked at that time. His political savvy was childish and moronic. But it wasn't the federal government's responsibility to get the water/supplies to the people. It wasn't the federal governments responsibility to put troops on the ground. It wasn't the federal governments responsibility to coordinate supplies coming in. That was then and still is the jurisdiction of the state government, and that is where it should be.

I think we actually are coming closer to agreement.

But for the record, I do no believe he deserves a lion's share of the blame, nor do I think I said this.

I also do not believe that I stated anywhere that he was at blame for the mayors or govenors issues....or for the individual citizen's inaction either (although I think social and financial circumstances probebly made evacuation very challanging). They all should be held accountable - lessons need to be learned.

But if the Federal government (Bush, HLS, FEMA) new how bad the problem was (and face it we all did) they needed to have a more "forced" conversation with the govenor . ust a simple "she wouldn't take our help" realy doesn't cut it for me. So much defies common sense (on all sides)
But I cannot buy that we can watch bodies float away on CNN with the federal government pushing intervention. But if we are saying "we knew they desperatly needed the help, but she refused so "oh well" - I ill need a barf bag.

But idly curious, I have looked up timelines - I have difficulty finding one that is not tainted left or right --did the gov. refuse help before or after the levees broke?

 

[DVC Sadie]

I think we actually are coming closer to agreement.

But for the record, I do no believe he deserves a lion's share of the blame, nor do I think I said this.

I also do not believe that I stated anywhere that he was at blame for the mayors or govenors issues....or for the individual citizen's inaction either (although I think social and financial circumstances probebly made evacuation very challanging). They all should be held accountable - lessons need to be learned.

But if the Federal government (Bush, HLS, FEMA) new how bad the problem was (and face it we all did) they needed to have a more "forced" conversation with the govenor . ust a simple "she wouldn't take our help" realy doesn't cut it for me. So much defies common sense (on all sides)
But I cannot buy that we can watch bodies float away on CNN with the federal government pushing intervention. But if we are saying "we knew they desperatly needed the help, but she refused so "oh well" - I ill need a barf bag.

But idly curious, I have looked up timelines - I have difficulty finding one that is not tainted left or right --did the gov. refuse help before or after the levees broke?

The governor refused help days before Katrina hit, the day before Katrina hit and the last time she refused help was the day the levees broke. The next day the governor was seen crying and begging for help as was Mayor Nagin.

The saddest part of this tragedy was the fact that there was help available right outside of the city includiing the Salvation Army, The Red Cross, Volunteers of America and a lot of faith based groups who were not allowed to go into NOLA. Those groups turned around and came to the Mississippi and Alabama gulf coast region.

By the time the Red Cross was given permission to go into NOLA the president of the ARC no longer felt that their volunteers would be safe.

 

[LakeAriel]

I thought this was strange! What isn't anymore! Thought I post it here.

FEMA workers masquerade as reporters
Employees asked questions at last minute California wildfire briefing

WASHINGTON - The White House scolded the Federal Emergency Management Agency on Friday for staging a phony news conference about assistance to victims of wildfires in southern California.

The agency — much maligned for its sluggish response to Hurricane Katrina over two years ago — arranged to have FEMA employees play the part of independent reporters Tuesday and ask questions of Vice Adm. Harvey E. Johnson, the agency’s deputy director

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21490838/

I saw this on the news last night..It is the new fake Stepford FEMA.. All I say say is....nothing. It's too embarrassing.

 

[LuvDuke]

Challenge accepted (I really need to get a life )

This made me laugh.

I'm trying to point out that he doesn't deserve the lions share of the blame. He doesn't deserve the majority of the blame. Many of the things he has been blamed for by the press, by the Democrats, are things that were not his fault or his responsibility.

Like your last sentance. That is a 24% sentance, all or nothing. In general, I believe you are right, George Bush is going to end up as one of the worst presidents in our history, as poor as Carter (although I don't think he will be listed as worst than Carter, inside information on that). However, in the case of Katrina, history will be very kind in my opinion. The quotes I listed were from 3 people on this thread - but go to the threads from the Hurricane Katrina area and there will be 100's (ok, maybe 10's, but the majority of posters) who were pissed at the inaction of the federal government. When I pointed out then that it wasn't his responsibility, that he didn't have the authority I was brushed off as being one of the 39% at that time.

His leadership sucked at that time. His political savvy was childish and moronic. But it wasn't the federal government's responsibility to get the water/supplies to the people. It wasn't the federal governments responsibility to put troops on the ground. It wasn't the federal governments responsibility to coordinate supplies coming in. That was then and still is the jurisdiction of the state government, and that is where it should be.

Like everything else, George Bush waited for someone to tell him what to do. He waited for someone to tell him NO was in trouble. He waited for the generals in the field to ask for what they need. He waited for Be-trayus to tell him the status of the war. And on and on and on. For a CIC and "decider-guy", you've got yourselves one sack of crap.

And, FYI, Jimmy Carter will always have the accomplishment of presiding over the negotiations of the Camp David Accords. Two bitter enemies, who fought against each in 4 wars, came to an agreement that still stands today. You may not think that's a helluva an accomplishment, but Anwar Sadat (may he rest in peace), the people of Eqypt, and the people of Israel live with Carter's accomplishment and are grateful for it.

Btw, your percentage has shrunk from "39%" to "24%". Wake up and smell the latte.

 

[Planogirl]

Wow, people are STILL arguing about who was responsible for the mess after Katrina? Hard to believe.

I personally think that they were all responsible in some capacity. Federal law, state law, whatever... from what I understand, in times of crisis new rules come into play and the problem is that no one did what they were supposed to do. FEMA in particular has proven itself to be a completely useless organization IMO.

 

[ExPirateShopGirl]

Notice how you can take a perfectly good natural disaster v. natural disaster thread and it instantly becomes a political propaganda fest.

And people wonder why agencies can't work together. They are headed by people not unlike yourselves. The blame game: It's not just for breakfast anymore!

 

[DVC Sadie]

Natural disaster vs. natural disaster is two totally different breakfasts depending on whether or not you eat a two egg, sausage, hash browns and toast breakfast or left with grits and water due to political failure on all levels.

 

[LuvDuke]

Notice how you can take a perfectly good natural disaster v. natural disaster thread and it instantly becomes a political propaganda fest.

And people wonder why agencies can't work together. They are headed by people not unlike yourselves. The blame game: It's not just for breakfast anymore!

It isn't the "blame game" that's the problem. It's the "accountability game" that's the problem. There's nothing wrong with assigning blame for someone who screwed up. That's part of responsibility and when they fail in that responsibility, they should be called on it.

The problem is when you have the same ones making the same mistakes because no one is held accountable.

People screwed up big time with Katrina and the response to the fires in CA remains to be seen. Frankly, it isn't a good start when the "decider-guy" starts off by taking a cheap shot at a governor and an agency runs a phony press conference to make themselves look good. Who's head is going to roll for that debacle? Given the history of the "decider-guy" and his administration, no one is going to be held accountable because, after all, we don't want to play the "blame game". Screw the public for believing their government. Damned fools should know government doesn't work ............ especially when it's run by lying, incompetent morons.

 

[WatchinCaptKangaroo]

In case anyone cares, the fire in Orange County is now running rampant in the Cleveland National Forest. At least there is no wind and it's starting to rain.

We could use less fighting please.

Thank you,

~ Southern California.

 

[Mr Man]

I thought this was strange! What isn't anymore! Thought I post it here.

FEMA workers masquerade as reporters
Employees asked questions at last minute California wildfire briefing

WASHINGTON - The White House scolded the Federal Emergency Management Agency on Friday for staging a phony news conference about assistance to victims of wildfires in southern California.

The agency — much maligned for its sluggish response to Hurricane Katrina over two years ago — arranged to have FEMA employees play the part of independent reporters Tuesday and ask questions of Vice Adm. Harvey E. Johnson, the agency’s deputy director

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21490838/

This kind of stunt really hacks my (insert random descriptor here).

I hate the "spinning" and "shaping" of the news whoever does it. I pine for the days when we had actual reporters who tracked down the who, what, where and when of a story.....and then left the why to us? Nowadays, they start with the "why" and work backwards. A shame FEMA is doing the same.

FEMA should have known that their "Phony" journalists (lol) would be found out in a heartbeat. What journalist, in their "left" mind, is going to lob softball questions at a Federal Agency which reports to a Republican Administration? I would much prefer FEMA prepare themselves properly for a hostile news conference and communicate the merits of their actions. Rank amateurs!

Hi, I'm Troy McClure. You might remember me from such news conferences as "Wow, FEMA sure took care of my sore tooth and canker-sore" & "FEMA, we may be late but we brought a lot of stuff!"

 

[Mr Man]

In case anyone cares, the fire in Orange County is now running rampant in the Cleveland National Forest. At least there is no wind and it's starting to rain.

We could use less fighting please.

Thank you,

~ Southern California.

Still watching events unfold in CA and I am reasonably certain that everyone here does care (noone yet has said they didn't care......yet). Katrina is a fighting word nowadays (with apologies to those named Katrina....just one of those things....) For good or bad (but mostly bad).

I am hoping that the wind dying down a bit is allowing the aircraft to make a difference, "bambi buckets" and all. I see quite a bit of military aircraft are now available. Big plus.

Here's hoping they get it under control this weekend.

 

[What the Heck]

Still watching events unfold in CA and I am reasonably certain that everyone here does care (noone yet has said they didn't care......yet). Katrina is a fighting word nowadays (with apologies to those named Katrina....just one of those things....) For good or bad (but mostly bad).

I am hoping that the wind dying down a bit is allowing the aircraft to make a difference, "bambi buckets" and all. I see quite a bit of military aircraft are now available. Big plus.

Here's hoping they get it under control this weekend.

I used to know a Katrina....she needed no apologies...

 

[LuvDuke]

I used to know a Katrina....she needed no apologies...

Hmmm ...............

 

[Mr Man]

I used to know a Katrina....she needed no apologies...

Now, I don't care who you are......that's foony...... (hat tip Larry the Cable Guy).

ps Grandmama is covered in moles.......