Difference between the fires and Katrina

[bsnyder]

I am not against being prepared, nor do I think I'm defending it. Far from it. I would love to have a well stocked emergency pantry with a few months of food, tents, batteries, generators, etc. but I simply do not have the room or spare funds to accomplish this. Yes, everybody should have a working flashlight with fresh batteries, a bag of trail mix, a few bottles of water, pet carriers and food (if applicable), and a blanket, all at the ready. And I agree, a lot don't. But even with these things, the people of NO were overwhelmed and it wouldn't have helped them one bit. The authorities HAVE to be ready to swoop in if need be. It shouldn't all be on the citizen's shoulders. It should be a joint effort, well prepared for and well rehearsed with ALL the rules spelled out and/or debated, ahead of time.

You seem like you are defending it to me. Including setting up straw man arguments that you'd love to have months of supplies, generators, etc. or that it should all be on the citizen's shoulders. No one is advocating that, least of all me.

Of the basic 3-5 days of supplies recommended by the government and the Red Cross, it's not a lot that don't, it's most. You make the statement that the people of NO were overwhelmed and it wouldn't have helped them one bit. That's nonsense, and more excuses that we're just helpless, that nothing we do as individuals will be effective, and that we should instead rely on the federal government to swoop in if need be.

I do wholeheartedly agree with your last sentence. We're debating it here. I'm in favor of insisting that individuals should have a much greater degree of preparedness than we have now.

And I'm in very much in favor of helping the most vulnerable in our communities - the elderly and the impoverished. Citizens Corp and your local CERT team are a good place to start, if you're so inclined.

 

[Mr Man]

California= Fire
Katrina= Water

California= Wealthy, lots of resources.
Katrina areas= not so much

California govt (state/local)= look to be pretty well prepared
Katrina= Well, they gave it a shot.....

That's a fair difference. Virtual opposites.

It probably would be easier to list what is similar between the two events.

 

[hniki234]

Louisiana was offered federal aid She(governor) refused it, she was told to order an evacuation-she refused to, it was only after I forget what federal threat that the Governor finally ordered an evacuation. We are a country with local and State governments we are not a big brother state like communist Russia was, we are supposed to take care of our local problems first then the Federal Government Aids us when it gets too large not the other way around.

The people in New Orleans and Louisiana had more warning than the people in California. Everyone knew a big hurricane was coming and they chose to ignore it. They chose to ignore their failing levee system and used federal money for building bike paths around the levees rather than repairing them.

California is just reacting and dealing with it the way it should, just as the West did with the Terrible snow storms last winter, and the midwest does with tornadoes, and Florida does with hurricanes, and Texas does with floods. Why is New Orleans supposed to be the only area that can't handle their own expected disasters? Who is at fault there?

 

[Princess_Michelle]

There were many who were very elderly and babies and they had NO WATER FOR 5 DAYS...and some died as a result. How about them?

Those are the ones I cried for. It KILLED me to see that gilr holding the baby on the news and they kept trying to keep him from passing out. It literally tore my heart apart, b/c I kept thinking about what I would do in that situation. I very quickly had to remind myself, that I would probably never be in that situation, b/c i would have gotten my butt outta there. That's when I got mad at the mom for being so stupid. She was young, had two legs, and she could walk....why the He** didn't she take care of her baby and get outta there, or atleast have supplies on hand b/c of the possibility that that might happen. I also got MAD at all the "men" and I use that term loosely who were running around looting and shooting while their parents and grandparents were dying. Those same parents and grandparents had their homes used as hangout spots for all the drug dealers, and were trashed by all the "hanging out" in their front yards. SO, yes, I was very sad for them, but I was just as mad for them.

 

[eclectics]

You make the statement that the people of NO were overwhelmed and it wouldn't have helped them one bit. That's nonsense, and more excuses that we're just helpless, that nothing we do as individuals will be effective, and that we should instead rely on the federal government to swoop in if need be.

When you're 2 seconds behind a rushing wall of water and stumbling up to your attic, trying to grab your 3 days of supplies probably isn't going to happen with much success.


For some reason you're ignoring my repeated statements that I think both the citizen and the authorities should be as prepared as they can be. Unfortunately some aren't able to do much. Somebody already mentioned Nagin's refusing to have the buses at the ready. That's outrageous. And if I'm stranded on my roof, I expect my tax dollars to pay for someone to come get me...and not 5 days later! If you think that's "over relying" on the authorities because I didn't do enough to help myself, well so be it. I think that's ridiculous.

 

[Hannathy]

When you're 2 seconds behind a rushing wall of water and stumbling up to your attic, trying to grab your 3 days of supplies probably isn't going to happen with much success.

No that's why you have the water already up there if you are going to ignore the never ending orders to evacuate! Many emergencies come without warning. I live in tornado country and when I had babies I kept water, diapers and a can of formula in the basement and empty bottles from spring to fall. If the weather started getting bad I would put blankets and shoes down there and snacks and one of the phones, know where every one was and where the animals were. When the siren goes off you often have less than a minute to get safe, that is not when you start taking things. In the winter when you can get snowed in and I had little ones I always had at least some spag. sauce and pasta and canned soup, and usually a few more extra meals in case I got snowed in. You plan ahead and you follow directions. Those people could have had water in the attic 3 days before it hit. All you do is fill up empty milk jugs or other empty things. They could have had an ax or saw up there ahead of time.

I don't buy that bit about Nagin and the buses for 1 minute either. Good excuse wonder how long his team took to come up with that one.

 

[eclectics]

No that's why you have the water already up there if you are going to ignore the never ending orders to evacuate! Many emergencies come without warning. I live in tornado country and when I had babies I kept water, diapers and a can of formula in the basement and empty bottles from spring to fall. If the weather started getting bad I would put blankets and shoes down there and snacks and one of the phones, know where every one was and where the animals were. When the siren goes off you often have less than a minute to get safe, that is not when you start taking things. In the winter when you can get snowed in and I had little ones I always had at least some spag. sauce and pasta and canned soup, and usually a few more extra meals in case I got snowed in. You plan ahead and you follow directions. Those people could have had water in the attic 3 days before it hit. All you do is fill up empty milk jugs or other empty things. They could have had an ax or saw up there ahead of time.

I don't buy that bit about Nagin and the buses for 1 minute either. Good excuse wonder how long his team took to come up with that one.

How long do you think water and supplies would last, stored in a boiling hot New Orleans attic?



Come up with what? Either the buses weren't available at all or Nagin didn't order them to be at the ready, for whatever reason. Either scenario, he looks like an incompetent ***. There is no good spin they could have come up with.

 

["Got Disney"]

I haven't heard any reports of people shooting at helicopters trying to rescue people in California either. Everyone wants to blame the "officials" in NO or the federal government but keep in mind, many, many, many people REFUSED to leave NO causing their own problems. Also, those that didn't take water with them to evacuation sites, people are told over and over and over again to have enough water on hand, etc. Heck, Florida gives you tax free days to buy all the disaster stuff you need. I live in MN and I can tell you want to put in a hurricane box for a disaster. The information is EVERYWHERE. For those that were not prepared, shame on them.

Yes, there were elderly that are not very mobile but many of them refused to get on the buses that were provided as well. Yes, the whole thing could have been handled better in NO. In California I would have to say that people on the whole are better educated and have taken responsibility for looking after themselves first to give the responders TIME to get to them. These things don't just magically appear overnight.

One thing I want to pt out also is that SanDiegans have been very generous with donationse. Theyhad to tell everyone to stop bring donations to Qualcome because the had more that enough for 5,000 people and animals that were there.

You should sse the lines at places with the people giving donations. The same when the fires were her in 2003,Katina and so many other things. Sandiegans pull together for one another and others.

We have donated tents, food, cots, pillow blankets. sleeping bags, games, coloring books, dog and cat food and so many other things.

Tomorrow we are going to the Delmar race tract to help with the horses.
They have soooooo many volunteers that they are moving them around. Today at about 10 they anounced that they needed vollunteers at the SD HS for 400 elderly. No sooner did I call after showering at 11:00 and they said that after that announcment within that hr they were over whelmed with moods and supplys and volunteers.

 

[Princess_Michelle]

It's sad, but that would have never happened in LA. Most people would be too scared for their lives to drive in there, and of those that did, I'm sure many of them would have been jumped and their donations looted before they reached their destination.....

 

[LittleBlue22]

Now there's evacuation to a sports arena(Qualcomm Stadium). Personally, I'd high tail it out of there, no Super dome, I mean QCS for me.

If you see too many sa'as those two letters are sticking- asound familiar gotdiasney

 

[hiwaygal]

How long do you think water and supplies would last, stored in a boiling hot New Orleans attic?

I know I'm jumping in late here...but I'm guessing you don't live in an area where hurricanes can happen?

EVERY year at the beginning of the season (and when every storm starts to form) we are reminded of the bare essentials for 3-5 days. And every year we are told that when the season is over, use up the supplies and re-buy them next year.

When a hurricane is coming, you generally have 3-4 days notice. I'm pretty sure some canned or boxed food and water is going to be fine in an upstairs room for a couple of days. Heck, even if you wait 'til the first storm bands arrive to put them up there...then there is still time. And even if the water is warm...it's better than nothing.

 

[Hannathy]

How long do you think water and supplies would last, stored in a boiling hot New Orleans attic?



Come up with what? Either the buses weren't available at all or Nagin didn't order them to be at the ready, for whatever reason. Either scenario, he looks like an incompetent ***. There is no good spin they could have come up with.

I didn't know heat would hurt water Lots of things would have lasted the short period of time in the heat.

I was responding to the poster who said Nagin was just being fiscally conservative and didn't use the buses because he wanted to save gas and I meant his team coming up with that story.

 

[froglady]

How long do you think water and supplies would last, stored in a boiling hot New Orleans attic?



QUOTE]

About as long as mine would last in a boiling FL attic, which is why I wouldn't move them from my closet and up there until the storm was making landfall. Of course, I live above sea level, away from the coast, so my main concern is wind and falling tree limb damage. If I lived closer to the ocean, I would find someone like myself to stay with.

I don't run out to buy all of my supplies as a storm is approaching; I buy a couple of items a week from March on.

I also empty my purse daily, and put all of my change, and any $1 bills, into my emergency supply fund. I've been able to purchase a generator, and all of the batteries, lamps, etc, along with some battery operated fans, from money I've accumulated over the last 5 years.

Of course, many people save money for WDW the same way. I just chose to spend it differently.

 

[basas]

I know I'm jumping in late here...but I'm guessing you don't live in an area where hurricanes can happen?

EVERY year at the beginning of the season (and when every storm starts to form) we are reminded of the bare essentials for 3-5 days. And every year we are told that when the season is over, use up the supplies and re-buy them next year.

When a hurricane is coming, you generally have 3-4 days notice. I'm pretty sure some canned or boxed food and water is going to be fine in an upstairs room for a couple of days. Heck, even if you wait 'til the first storm bands arrive to put them up there...then there is still time. And even if the water is warm...it's better than nothing.

Exactly. Hurricanes are much easier to prepare for than nearly any other type of natural disaster: tornadoes, floods, blizzards, earthquakes, etc. There really is no excuse for not being prepared, or not getting out when you’re given several day’s notice.

 

[WatchinCaptKangaroo]

I sat quietly and read this thread. But I can't stay quiet anymore.

SoCal is not a wealthy area. Yes, housing costs a small fortune, yes salaries are more (to compensate for the cost of living) but aside from the celebrities affected in Malibu most of the people being evacuated and otherwise affected are hard working people "average income" people.

We may be "better off" then NOLA but I am sick and tired of people saying we are getting more help because the people have more money. The fact of the matter is this: We have been through this more times then I'd like to remember. Most recently we went through this in 2003. We know what we are doing. We are not to proud to accept help when offered and ask for help when we need it. Our government pulls together and does what needs to be done to make sure the state maintains and the citizens are taken care of.

But we are low on resources. Our firefighters are exhausted, hungry and need more help at every fire. They have had to abandon posts and let homes burn because it got to dangerous. We need more water dropping planes and helicopters. There are close to 20 large fires burning throughout most of Southern California. The air quality sucks. We're scared for our families and our friends. We're scared for our wildlife.

So please, stop assuming that we are all rich Hollywood stereotypes. That we're all "rockstars" and that we take baths in money. Because most of us are hard working people just trying to do our best to support ourselves and our families.

 

[bsnyder]

When you're 2 seconds behind a rushing wall of water and stumbling up to your attic, trying to grab your 3 days of supplies probably isn't going to happen with much success.


For some reason you're ignoring my repeated statements that I think both the citizen and the authorities should be as prepared as they can be. Unfortunately some aren't able to do much. Somebody already mentioned Nagin's refusing to have the buses at the ready. That's outrageous. And if I'm stranded on my roof, I expect my tax dollars to pay for someone to come get me...and not 5 days later! If you think that's "over relying" on the authorities because I didn't do enough to help myself, well so be it. I think that's ridiculous.

I wouldn't expect you to be stranded on your roof. You should evacuate to a safer place. Or maybe you're one of those people that's not able to do much?

And as for your first statement - the levees failed and the "bowl" filled up. It wasn't a tsunami, and it took a lot longer than 2 seconds.

 

[eclectics]

I didn't know heat would hurt water Lots of things would have lasted the short period of time in the heat.

I was responding to the poster who said Nagin was just being fiscally conservative and didn't use the buses because he wanted to save gas and I meant his team coming up with that story.

I wasn't aware his team tried to spin it. My mistake. The man is a sad excuse for a leader.

My attic remark was made because I doubt anybody would keep supplies in an attic unless they intended to end up there. Not many folks in hurricane country expects to end up in their attic unless you are right on the coast and might get caught in a sea surge. I truly believe those 9th ward folks had no reason to believe their levees would not hold. They were told time and time again by all three sets of officials (local, state, feds) they would hold up. If they had no reason to think they would end up in their attics that morning, they obviously wouldn't stock up there.

 

[Mr Man]

I know I'm jumping in late here...but I'm guessing you don't live in an area where hurricanes can happen?

EVERY year at the beginning of the season (and when every storm starts to form) we are reminded of the bare essentials for 3-5 days. And every year we are told that when the season is over, use up the supplies and re-buy them next year.

When a hurricane is coming, you generally have 3-4 days notice. I'm pretty sure some canned or boxed food and water is going to be fine in an upstairs room for a couple of days. Heck, even if you wait 'til the first storm bands arrive to put them up there...then there is still time. And even if the water is warm...it's better than nothing.

Completely agree. Testify!

I remember during Hurricane Rita (which turned out to be no big shakes luckily), watching the coverage on Channel 13 here in Houston. Dr. Neil Franks-eminent meteorologist and all-around nice-guy ( probably means nothing to those who live outside of the Houston Metro Area)- just about "stroked out" on live TV and was yelling at people "on-air" who were jamming grocery stores and buying everything in sight. Some serious panic buying going on. Absolutely hilarious to watch.

At the beginning of every Hurricane season, you are recommended to lay in 3-5 days worth of supplies. if you don't, bad on you. If you don't have funds or are an invalid, there ARE support networks that can assist. Heck, you can call and get stuff delivered to you.

I can't expect someone who doesn't live in a Hurricane prone area to understand that simple precautions that can be taken that will prevent most (not all) eventualities during a Hurricane.......but maybe something similar to preparations prudent folks take for a Nor'easter will suffice as short-hand. Doesn't take much time or $ either. Just a plan and some follow-through.


Now, climbing up on my soapbox.......

We, who volunteered hundreds of hours to assist the evacuees during and after Katrina, (and frankly to this day) are MIGHTY tired of those who sat on their butts hundreds of miles away "monday morning quarterbacking" everything that happened. We are sorry that real life does not always fit snugly into your world view. Things break, people die. Perhaps you should consider joining us in the real world for a while...... or at least dialing back the smug for a bit.

Houston continues to pay in lives lost & serious $ for our generosity. Funny thing is, we would do it again without hesitation. Given the state of things in NO to this day (more flooding reported yesterday), we will likely have another chance to prove this.

I have high hopes for the new Governor of Louisiana. He has truly inherited a mess.

 

[Charade]

I really don't understand the lack of compassion for the elderly, weak or impoverished in NO..

Where do you get that from?

 

[bsnyder]

Exactly. Hurricanes are much easier to prepare for than nearly any other type of natural disaster: tornadoes, floods, blizzards, earthquakes, etc. There really is no excuse for not being prepared, or not getting out when you’re given several day’s notice.

Blizzards are similar to hurricanes - with our advanced weather technology, communities get some days' notice before a big storm.

And in the particular case of New Orleans, there had been dire predictions of "the big one" hitting for years and years. And of the perilous consequences that would have, based on the topography of that city. There's simiply no excuse for the local and state governments not to have planned better, ahead of time, for the vulnerable among their population (the poor, the sick, the elderly), and no excuse for so many to have ended up stuck on their rooftops or sitting in the Super Dome with no basic supplies of their own.

I just read an article in the Times-Picyune, that the population of NO is back to 86% of its' pre-Katrina level. But I'd bet money that the local and state governments are still not adequately prepared if another hurricane hits. It's just so much easier to blame President Bush, if that happens.