Difference between the fires and Katrina

[eclectics]

At this stage of the disaster, it's most definitely a difference in the preparedness of the local and state officials.

I totally agree. Like I said before, California seems to have their act together. I just hope if FEMA is needed later, the same can be said for them. Sadly, I doubt it. I still marvel at how the FAA ignores things that need doing, even after years of proof that they need to cut the bureaucracy and get their house in order. The men or women picked to head these agencies need to be picked because they know how to do the job, not because of some favor.

 

[bsnyder]

I just hope if FEMA is needed later, the same can be said for them. Sadly, I doubt it. I still marvel at how the FAA ignores things that need doing, even after years of proof that they need to cut the bureaucracy and get their house in order. The men or women picked to head these agencies need to be picked because they know how to do the job, not because of some favor.

I doubt it too. I'd take a competent, well-prepared local government over a bumbling federal agency any day of the week. It just makes more sense, the locals have more knowledge of the situation, and more importantly, MORE AT STAKE than some distance buearucrat.

 

[eclectics]

I doubt it too. I'd take a competent, well-prepared local government over a bumbling federal agency any day of the week. It just makes more sense, the locals have more knowledge of the situation, and more importantly, MORE AT STAKE than some distance buearucrat.

The sad part, to me anyway (I know most Republicans are not huge fans of government agencies and would prefer them to go away) is that, when properly run and when housecleaned periodically, these agencies are perfectly capable of doing a decent job. A lot of these agency heads are appointed and I don't think that is wise, imho.

 

[Mickey'sMainMami]

First I wanted to say that the whole Katrina thing was awful, BUT, one of my family members works for FEMA, and he told us that there was a MANDATORY EVACUATION for everyone in New Orleans. People refused to go. They were specifically told that help could possibly take longer than necessary to get to them if the damage was that significant, and the governement wasn't sure how bad it was going to be, or how long it would take them to get to them. People who decided to stay, did so against all advice. There were plenty of shelters and buses set up and brought in to evacuate everyone, most people just didn't want to leave their homes, then complained later that no one warned them.

With that being said, I did think that after the rains and stuff stopped, people who were in the stadium down there needed the help badly, and I didn't really see why it took the government so long to get in there to drop off supplies. I do think they dragged their feet, not sure why, someone dropped the ball! I am hoping that they learned from their mistakes, and that if a tragedy in that magnitude happens again, there will be better responding.

Now, with the wildfires, most of the people have had plenty of forewarning to evacuate, where with Katrina, no one really knew that it was going to be as big and bad as it was! I think that is why people think that it is because it is a "white thing, or a money thing" where I just think people were told 3 days ago at the start of the wildfires that the fire might hit their homes and they took percautions, and were ready to leave when told. They had more time to prepare. Katrina victims unfortunately didn't see what hit them, even though forecasters were calling for it, I don't think anyone thought the levees would break. All I have to say is, if someone is telling me to get out, I am getting out, I don't care if I have to drive 1000 miles and sleep in my car, I am getting out of harms way. I would rather have my family alive, then worrying about 4 walls and a roof, which can be replaced. That's what we pay insurance for. I do understand that in New Orleans, it seemed that a lot of poor people were the ones who stayed, maybe they couldn't afford to evacuate, but they did bring in buses to help ship everyone out.

 

[bsnyder]

The sad part, to me anyway (I know most Republicans are not huge fans of government agencies and would prefer them to go away) is that, when properly run and when housecleaned periodically, these agencies are perfectly capable of doing a decent job. A lot of these agency heads are appointed and I don't think that is wise, imho.

I don't doubt that most federal agencies could be better run and do a decent job. Or that political appointments are part of the problem. They are and always have been.

I think it comes down to a matter of basic philosophy. IMO, a bottom up approach to government is generally going to be more efficient and effective and should be our first instinct, rather than looking to a distant agency in Washington to fix things. Those closer to a problem have more knowledge and much more incentive to solve the problems. Additional layers of beauracracy just compound the envitable finger-pointing and scapegoating when things don't go well.

I'd add that the bottom-up approach BEGINS with each individual taking responsibility for his or her own safety and well-being. Obviously, there are folks who can't take care of themselves, and that's where the community effort begins. But we've strayed almost 180 degrees from that concept. Witness all the folks who show up at an evacuation shelter and bring nothing with them, or even worse, refuse to evacuate and then expect "the cavalary" to rescue them when the situation gets out of hand.

 

[bumbershoot]

One can't forget to note that the disasters are pretty much the exact opposite from each other.

With a fire, you use water to put it out, with other fires to try to stop it, etc. With drastic storms and a flood, you....can't do all that much.


OK, going back to refreshing the google map that shows the Harris fire, so I can see if my brother's house west of Otay reservoir is destroyed yet. They've been out for 24 hours (along with their kitties) when they got the call for *voluntary* evacuation, which gives me the luxury to worry about their "stuff".

 

[meandtheguys2]

Where are you getting a map, please. I lived up in the Arrowhead area, and the Rimoftheworld website it down.

 

[Hannathy]

Louisiana was offered federal aid She(governor) refused it, she was told to order an evacuation-she refused to, it was only after I forget what federal threat that the Governor finally ordered an evacuation. We are a country with local and State governments we are not a big brother state like communist Russia was, we are supposed to take care of our local problems first then the Federal Government Aids us when it gets too large not the other way around.

The people in New Orleans and Louisiana had more warning than the people in California. Everyone knew a big hurricane was coming and they chose to ignore it. They chose to ignore their failing levee system and used federal money for building bike paths around the levees rather than repairing them.

California is just reacting and dealing with it the way it should, just as the West did with the Terrible snow storms last winter, and the midwest does with tornadoes, and Florida does with hurricanes, and Texas does with floods. Why is New Orleans supposed to be the only area that can't handle their own expected disasters? Who is at fault there?

 

[LakeAriel]

One can't forget to note that the disasters are pretty much the exact opposite from each other.

With a fire, you use water to put it out, with other fires to try to stop it, etc. With drastic storms and a flood, you....can't do all that much.


OK, going back to refreshing the google map that shows the Harris fire, so I can see if my brother's house west of Otay reservoir is destroyed yet. They've been out for 24 hours (along with their kitties) when they got the call for *voluntary* evacuation, which gives me the luxury to worry about their "stuff".

It's ironic isn't it? Dropping water to put out the fires. If only they had dropped water to the people in Katrina...

I am so glad your DB is Ok and that they were able to get their kitties out. I do hope their home is Ok..over 300,000 people have had to leave their homes..terrible terrible thing..

 

[eclectics]

Witness all the folks who show up at an evacuation shelter and bring nothing with them, or even worse, refuse to evacuate and then expect "the cavalary" to rescue them when the situation gets out of hand.

And also witness a bureaucracy that forbids evacuees to bring their pets, so they stay behind with their pets and hope for the best. It goes both ways.

 

[Geoff_M]

And also witness a bureaucracy that forbids evacuees to bring their pets, so they stay behind with their pets and hope for the best. It goes both ways.

Or one that blocks shipments of food and water from entering a city lest it enable people to ignore evacuation orders and remain...

 

[mickeyfan2]

This has happened countless times in SoCal.. The last time was in 2003..Ca knows the drill..

 

[bsnyder]

And also witness a bureaucracy that forbids evacuees to bring their pets, so they stay behind with their pets and hope for the best. It goes both ways.

Huh? What do you mean, it goes both ways? Pets aren't allowed at most shelters. And it's for good reason, not because any government official just wants to be cruel to pets and arbitrarily separate them from their owners.

If you have a pet, you need to have a plan in place, prior to an emergency, for what you'll do with that pet in case of an evacuation. If you won't take the time to prepare in advance, you aren't a responsible pet owner.

 

[What the Heck]

Or one that blocks shipments of food and water from entering a city lest it enable people to ignore evacuation orders and remain...

Which government are you talking about here? Did you know that it came out later that it was the State officials that did this?

 

[froglady]

You also have to factor in human nature.

New Orleans was warned about what MIGHT happen in a worst case scenario, but it was not something that most had really witnessed in their lifetime. It's also hard to really understand how much damage a hurricane can do, and how helpless you are, unless you've experienced one. It's hard to take warnings seriously enough when you have no frame of reference.

It's a lot easier to get people to evacuate when they can see a fire coming closer to them. There's no "maybe it won't be that bad" involved. BTW, there are also people refusing to evacuate in CA.

 

[Sandy321]

I hope the Santa Anna winds stop soon!

Also I saw a report that parts of New Orleans were flooding today!

 

[What the Heck]

You also have to factor in human nature.

New Orleans was warned about what MIGHT happen in a worst case scenario, but it was not something that most had really witnessed in their lifetime. It's also hard to really understand how much damage a hurricane can do, and how helpless you are, unless you've experienced one. It's hard to take warnings seriously enough when you have no frame of reference.

It's a lot easier to get people to evacuate when they can see a fire coming closer to them. There's no "maybe it won't be that bad" involved. BTW, there are also people refusing to evacuate in CA.

Excellent points.

 

[eclectics]

Huh? What do you mean, it goes both ways? Pets aren't allowed at most shelters. And it's for good reason, not because any government official just wants to be cruel to pets and arbitrarily separate them from their owners.

If you have a pet, you need to have a plan in place, prior to an emergency, for what you'll do with that pet in case of an evacuation. If you won't take the time to prepare in advance, you aren't a responsible pet owner.

Such as what? What sort of Utopia are you envisioning that gives someone prior time and the ability to first move their pets out of harm's way and then return back? Are you forgetting the government's acknowledgement that by forbiding pets, many people refused to evacuate in New Orleans? Whether we think it's right or wrong, it's a fact that a lot of people won't leave their pets. And as for California, they ARE allowing pets in the major evacuation centers. They learned from Katrina.

 

[bsnyder]

there are also people refusing to evacuate in CA.

There have always been people who refuse to evacuate. And there always will be.

I'm not one of them.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Such as what? What sort of Utopia are you envisioning that gives someone prior time and the ability to first move their pets out of harm's way and then return back? Are you forgetting the government's acknowledgement that by forbiding pets, many people refused to evacuate in New Orleans? Whether we think it's right or wrong, it's a fact that a lot of people won't leave their pets. And as for California, they ARE allowing pets in the major evacuation centers. They learned from Katrina.

When I was in the fires of 2003, I had plans to take my pets with me.. It never crossed my mind that I wouldn't be allowed too. I wonder if people in NO were aware that they couldn't take their pets until the last minute