Difference between Rich and Poor

[punkin]

Exactly! Having a child is the single biggest predictor that a woman will end up in poverty. Kids, as much as we love them, are a huge economic risk and burden and they severely limit women's choices and opportunities.

I would encourage any young women to delay having kids as long as possible and to be ultra, ultra careful about birth control.

I am offended by this. Yes, my children limited my choices and opportunities (I still wound up with a JD, thank you very much) but at least I am not like many women I know spending $20K or more on in vitro because they waited into their 30s to get pregnant.

I was raised really poor (my mother was a single mother on welfare) and believe me, when you are trying to put food on the table for 4 people with nothing but food stamps, you have enough troubles today without worrying about saving for tomorrow (besides, if you try to save on welfare, they reduce your benefit, so the incentive is not to save).

My mother managed to claw her way into a technical education and got married (boy did that second income help) and had both children go to college (I went to a VERY expensive private school) and professional school. I know it can be done, but the condecending tone of some of the posts on this thread just rubs me the wong way.

 

[kfeuer]

I would encourage any young women to delay having kids as long as possible and to be ultra, ultra careful about birth control.

I disagree that every woman should put off having kids as long as possible. I have friends who waited until their late 30's to start trying to have kids and discovered they had a very hard time getting pregnant. If you're in a secure financial place and are ready for kids, then why wait?

Now obviously if someone is living on the poverty level, having kids is not the best idea. I just disagree with the notion that nobody should have children when they're younger. And for the record, I was 30 when I had my first so I wasn't a young mom.

 

[dustysky]

hentob,

You are clearly someone who likes to fight or start trouble, you are now insulting my parenting and you have no right to do so. But per normal people who think they know everything will eventually turn to attacks (even if they do it backhanded to try and be sly). Typical.

 

[SadieDog]

No kidding!! So easy for people to talk the talk.

Everyone of you can talk all you want about how being rich is a mind set but let me tell you, my power company, phone company, grocery store, and gas station could all care less about how MINDFULLY wealthy I am.
So please stop acting like we should all be singing Kumbaya, the fact is some of us struggle and we struggle hard. If you are already behind from living on a lower income then pulling ahead is almost definitely out of the question.
Until you have had to worry how dinner was going to be placed on your family table then please don't tell anyone how EASY it is to live on $7.00 an hour.

You said this well. Many people work very hard and make $7 an hour. Some people simply say "if you work hard you will become financially comfortable." Some of the hardest working people make low wages.

 

[disneysteve]

(Disneysteve, Mrs.Pete and arminnie - for sure - have all "been there" as well - maybe not at the "living with a herion addict" or "being forced into a sexual relationship" level of despiration, but I know that all of them have mixed finanical pasts.)

I've intentionally stayed out of this thread and will continue to do so, but since my name got brought up I wanted to respond to this.

I have never been poor. I was raised by middle class parents in a small row home in Philadelphia. We always had what we needed. The bills were always paid. We took modest vacations every year.

Once I left home, I lived frugally, but still comfortably by most standards. My first apartment was a 1-room efficiency. I then moved to a 2-bedroom and then rented a small house from my soon-to-be wife's aunt. DW joined me there after the wedding. Then we bought our current home.

I never really worked for minimum wage (although if you calculate out the per hour rate I earned during internship and residency it was sometimes below minimum during those 60-80 hour work weeks).

So while I may understand frugal living pretty well, I can't say I have any idea what it is like to struggle to pay the bills or keep the utilities on or put food on the table. That's why I've stayed out of this thread (but continue to follow it as I find it very interesting).

 

[MrsPete]

Sometimes people in real poverty do not want their children to change too much; they are afraid of losing them. My own mother cried when I went off to a very expensive private school - and they paid nothing towards it.

I can relate to that. My mother did everything she could to prevent me from going to college straight after high school. I knew even then what was going on: she didn't want to go to college right after high school, but he father pushed her into it. She flunked out in a short time, but she returned more than a decade later. At that point she was ready to study, and she earned a degree. She had trouble accepting that I was ready right after high school.

 

[MrsPete]

Exactly! Having a child is the single biggest predictor that a woman will end up in poverty. Kids, as much as we love them, are a huge economic risk and burden and they severely limit women's choices and opportunities.

I would encourage any young women to delay having kids as long as possible and to be ultra, ultra careful about birth control.

Having a child too soon IS a huge risk -- and not only for the mother's future. We all owe it to our children to bring them into the world into a family that not only wants them, but also can support them. Having a child is not a decision to make based simply upon emotions and desire.

 

[MrsPete]

You said this well. Many people work very hard and make $7 an hour. Some people simply say "if you work hard you will become financially comfortable." Some of the hardest working people make low wages.

Speaking only for myself, I never said that hard work was enough. Breaking out of the $7/hour world takes planning and smarts as well as hard work.

Back when I was in college, I waited tables. Believe me, I worked hard. If I'd just stayed in that job, I'd still be doing the exact same work, working just as hard, bringing home the same money. Hard work wouldn't have been enough.

Instead, I planned and earned a degree so that I could move into a job with a future. A degree isn't the only way to move up in the world, but it is probably the most common.

 

[crisi]

I've intentionally stayed out of this thread and will continue to do so, but since my name got brought up I wanted to respond to this.

I have never been poor. I was raised by middle class parents in a small row home in Philadelphia. We always had what we needed. The bills were always paid. We took modest vacations every year.

Once I left home, I lived frugally, but still comfortably by most standards. My first apartment was a 1-room efficiency. I then moved to a 2-bedroom and then rented a small house from my soon-to-be wife's aunt. DW joined me there after the wedding. Then we bought our current home.

I never really worked for minimum wage (although if you calculate out the per hour rate I earned during internship and residency it was sometimes below minimum during those 60-80 hour work weeks).

So while I may understand frugal living pretty well, I can't say I have any idea what it is like to struggle to pay the bills or keep the utilities on or put food on the table. That's why I've stayed out of this thread (but continue to follow it as I find it very interesting).

I figured as much, but residency wages don't make anyone wealthy or give anyone a huge disposable income. My cousin in law did his in around 1995 for about $20,000 a year. Not the poverty line, but not rolling in cash. (They - my cousin and her husband - remind me of you - he's a cardiologist - and they still had their books on boards and cement block last time I was over...but, by God, all three children have their college fully funded. I admired a necklace of hers once - her response "Kohl's - on clearence - $4!")

I grew up middle class (my parents have a six bedroom home on a lake) and only struggled through college, through my first marriage, and then after my first husband left. I did have the "safety net" of moving back with my parents, but if "I'd rather live with a heroin addict" is a clue, that really isn't an acceptable choice for my family. My parents are great, no abuse or anything (physical, chemical or otherwise) - they just think grown ups should be self sufficient. The rice and beans would have had to have run dry before I moved home - and then I'd have had to live by their rules and pay rent.....at 19 I was convinced (probably stupidly) that I was better off where I was.

 

[crisi]

Speaking only for myself, I never said that hard work was enough. Breaking out of the $7/hour world takes planning and smarts as well as hard work.

Back when I was in college, I waited tables. Believe me, I worked hard. If I'd just stayed in that job, I'd still be doing the exact same work, working just as hard, bringing home the same money. Hard work wouldn't have been enough.

Instead, I planned and earned a degree so that I could move into a job with a future. A degree isn't the only way to move up in the world, but it is probably the most common.

Nor have I. If anything, this thread is about needing more than hard work. You need to plan past "Saturday night." Maybe three generations is a little much for most people.....

And luck. I credit a lot of being comfortable to luck.

 

[SadieDog]

Speaking only for myself, I never said that hard work was enough. Breaking out of the $7/hour world takes planning and smarts as well as hard work.

Back when I was in college, I waited tables. Believe me, I worked hard. If I'd just stayed in that job, I'd still be doing the exact same work, working just as hard, bringing home the same money. Hard work wouldn't have been enough.

Instead, I planned and earned a degree so that I could move into a job with a future. A degree isn't the only way to move up in the world, but it is probably the most common.

I did not mention your name and was not speaking of you in particular. Just that I have heard people say this over the years. Many of whom have never been in a low income position and should not be making certain comments. Have also heard comments about low income people being too lazy or unmotivated to earn a degree. I have to agree with you, wating table is hard work!

 

[hentob]

hentob,

You are clearly someone who likes to fight or start trouble, you are now insulting my parenting and you have no right to do so. But per normal people who think they know everything will eventually turn to attacks (even if they do it backhanded to try and be sly). Typical.

Nope. Not starting trouble. And absolutely NOT attacking! Just stating facts.

I did not insult your parenting. Raise your children the way you want. Teach them what you want. Pass down whatever financial habits you choose for them to carry throughout their adult lives. If you think what you are doing is right, who cares what I say. I teach my children different financial habits than you. Again, no biggie.

You are obliviously in defensive mode right now, so I think it is best to abandon ship on my end as far as our communication on this topic. I will not change your mind and you will not change mine.

No hard feelings.

 

[hentob]

Having a child too soon IS a huge risk -- and not only for the mother's future. We all owe it to our children to bring them into the world into a family that not only wants them, but also can support them. Having a child is not a decision to make based simply upon emotions and desire.

Very well said

 

[punkin]

Reading this thread is amazing...it's like a fight between people who simply do not speak the same language. Each side is stating its case without understanding the other side at all.

 

[georgia4now]

I just love the rich giving advice to the poor about how to live on that $7 per hour.

At least they (the rich) are qualified to give advice. Many, if not most of them were not born rich, they just worked their butts off and made informed decisions!

That's like saying professors are too smart to teach students! The idea is that if you're working for $7 per hour, you may want to pay attention to someone who has been successful.

I was poor as dirt my first few years out of college, now, I am very comfortable...because I was a poor person who listened to the advice of the rich!

 

[pearlieq]

I disagree that every woman should put off having kids as long as possible. I have friends who waited until their late 30's to start trying to have kids and discovered they had a very hard time getting pregnant. If you're in a secure financial place and are ready for kids, then why wait?

ARGH!!!

I'm not picking on the poster I quoted, but sometimes it drives me crazy that we need to qualify, qualify, qualify in order to get a point across on the DIS. I feel like I need to include a tiny-print disclaimer at the bottom of all of my posts!

OF COURSE I didn't mean that you should just gratuitously delay having kids even though you're secure. I'm just saying that the longer a woman can delay having kids, the more chance she will have to establish herself financially, therefore mitigating the risk of having kids.

punkin, I don't know what you found to be offended about, but I'm honestly not interested in hashing it out, since I'm starting to get the impression that you're not going to see any other viewpoint as anything other than "condescending". It's funny you make the point about being obstinate, since I'm getting the same feeling from you.

 

[hentob]

I was poor as dirt my first few years out of college, now, I am very comfortable...because I was a poor person who listened to the advice of the rich!

You are very wise

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Is it only me that doesn't believe the original article had anything to do with other than money.

Read "The Millionaire Next Door".

It has nothing to do with wanting to become a millionaire nor becoming "rich"--it has to do with spending and saving wisely and not wasting what you have.


Reading a bit too much into all this IMHO and pitting the classes against each other with who is really better off. I don't think the original article OP quoted had anything to do with that.

 

[Free4Life11]

At least they (the rich) are qualified to give advice. Many, if not most of them were not born rich, they just worked their butts off and made informed decisions!

There it goes again. Just because someone doesn't rake in a crap ton of money doesn't mean they aren't "qualified" to give advice. Is there some certification test now?

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

I'm with you PearlieQ. I have exactly ten teen moms/moms to be in my classes (I teach high school). Mrs Pete stated it very well. Children deserve a good start- a stable family that can love and support them. Low SES and ESL children comprise about 70% of the failures in my school district.

"Rich" and "Poor" are emotionally charged words,(and both negatively so, if you ask me) but we shouldn't let that stand in the way of a really interesting article, the point of which was "plan ahead to have the best chance of success." Can't we all agree that's good advice?

Here's a favorite quote:

"Failure means giving up what you want most for what you want at the moment."

I think about this when I want to eat high calorie foods (Do I want this cookie, or do I want to lose weight?) when I want to procrastinate (Do I want to DIS now and be up until 4 am grading papers?) when I want to spend money (Do I want these shoes, or would I rather put that into my Disney fund or my savings?) I really think that's the main point of the article- not who's better than whom, but how we all can become better off.