Difference between Rich and Poor

[hentob]

My husband works fulltime, he makes more then $10. and under $20., I have just finished going back to school so that I can work to help our household. Even with what he makes, we are a family of 4 and we again, struggle very hard to make sure nothing is shut off at our house on a monthly basis. I hope that in the end we will have more money but it is not EASY or a FAST process.

My point is just that it is not an easy road and people who have not been there shouldn't even consider giving advise.

But yet you purchased APs for your family and frequent WDW often. You stay in hotels during your visits. You go to Universal and IOA. How are you poor? If you are struggling to keep your utilities going, how do you have extra money to do all of the "fun" things? I think this is what the wise people are saying on this thread. It is all about decisions. You are a family of four, you don't know month to month if you will have "anything shut off" in your house, yet you are staying in hotels and frequenting amusement parks. How does this happen?

 

[crisi]

I don't think anyone thinks its easy or fast. But I think that its frustrating for those of us who have been there - I know I speak for myself - to hear the constant refrain of "but you don't understand." I do understand. And "you haven't been there" - how do you know where I've been? Do I need to give my financial resume everytime I post? I also understand that people who continue to say "it can't be done" won't do it.

(Disneysteve, Mrs.Pete and arminnie - for sure - have all "been there" as well - maybe not at the "living with a herion addict" or "being forced into a sexual relationship" level of despiration, but I know that all of them have mixed finanical pasts.)

One thing for sure, I'd have never have chosen to have children while I made that income. Nor would I have had children with my first husband, who was not a stable sort of guy (I married believing he'd grow up. He still hasn't.) We've made some choices for financial stablity because financial stablity was important to us, that others won't choose to do - I'm a working mom for a number of reasons, but one is that in this economy, at any time one of us could be jobless with no notice. At one point we were house shopping in Texas because my husband had a job offer there for more money - I'm not fond of Texas, my family is close here, my husband's family is close here, but we considered it (my husband got another offer closer to home). We've both worked jobs we would have loved to quit. And, despite doing fairly well now, I'm back in school at the moment to add to my skills and my employability.

And I'm not young....I'm 40. My kids are six and seven. There has been time, hard work, sacrifice and luck between my needle junkie roomie and now. And I'm not discounting the luck - we were in the right place at the right time.

 

[dustysky]

you purchased APs for your family and frequent WDW often. You stay in hotels during your visits.

What do you consider often?? I am a Disney lover, I would like to be there every day of my life, I did buy passes with our taxes and I have posted in the past that it was a HUGE mistake because even with those passes we can not afford the food, gas, or hotels it takes for even a day trip.

You go to Universal and IOA.

Hmm.... we havent been there in well over two years.

This thread and my input has nothing to do with MY personal spending. I will stick to the fact that THE PEOPLE here who DO make $7.00 an hour should not be talked to like children who do not know how to manage there money!

 

[hentob]

What do you consider often?? I am a Disney lover, I would like to be there every day of my life, I did buy passes with our taxes and I have posted in the past that it was a HUGE mistake because even with those passes we can not afford the food, gas, or hotels it takes for even a day trip.

Yet you went for a three day trip last month?

I just have issues with people that say they are struggling to pay utilities and that "pulling ahead is almost definitely out of the question", but then put themselves in a position to fail over and over again.

Don't "poo-poo" the people on this thread that are trying to help.

You said this yourself " I am in FL and right in the middle of where Hurricane Charley hit, our rents went from $700.00 a month to WELL over $1200. a month, however, the pay has all stayed the same. How do you pull up from that?" Ummm--Don't use your tax refund for AP's to start. Also, don't blame the hurricane. That is a cop-out. Within the past eight months, you not only frequented WDW, but you also visited Busch Gardens and the Nick Hotel. What does Charlie have to do with you barely making your bills at the end of the month?

Also said by you:: So please stop acting like we should all be singing Kumbaya, the fact is some of us struggle and we struggle hard. If you are already behind from living on a lower income then pulling ahead is almost definitely out of the question No it is not "out of the question". You just need to change your lifestyle. If you don't want to, no skin off my back. But PLEASE don't be so snarky towards those that are trying to help you.

 

[crisi]

It makes me angry and sad. I do understand what it is like to be poor. I start to wonder however, if the people claiming poverty understand what it is like to be poor. Because taking a family to WDW is out of the question when you don't own a winter coat......

By the way, if there is anyone on this board who does make $7 an hour (as their high household income - doesn't count if your husband makes more and you make $7 an hour working at Target on the weekends) and is planning a trip to Disney (that they are paying for - doesn't count if your parents are buying the trip), please speak up. I'm very interested to hear how you are juggling it.

 

[dustysky]

Hentob,

First of all show me a single post that I said I was poor. I HAVE been poor, I never once said I was at this time. I think POOR and struggling are to different things. We struggle because I LIKE doing nice things and going places.
I refuse to have a life filled with no trips, or movies or fun for myself or my kids so that we can save a few extra bucks a week. That is ME (the lifestyle I CHOOSE).
We do not own a single credit card, hmmm I wonder how many of those "rich" people are sitting on a mound of credit card debt so they can go to Disney or on a cruise .... is that responsible??

I was defending the people on here, that as I said before, are being talked to like idiots who have no comment since simply because of there wages.

So again, I never said I am poor NOW nor did I say, I or my husband makes $7.00 an hour, I did say that comments like this:

Yeah, if I weren't making $7 bucks an hour I too could plan 3 generations ahead.

are not true! IT IS SIMPLY NOT POSSIBLE!

There are other people who were posting on this thread who also agree with me but because of people like you who attack instead of trying to see the point they have run for the hill.

I am not sure if you know me personally, I can only assume yes because a stranger would not care or take the time to research every post I have made.
But if you do know me then you know exactly how my trips were funded and spent. You would know for sure that staying at a Disney hotel is not an option, that priceline is my best friend, and that we take food to the park with us when we can.

What does Charlie have to do with you barely making your bills at the end of the month?

I gave you an example of the effects the hurricane had on our community, NOT an excuse. And it has a great deal to do with it, LIKE I ALREADY SAID, our rents have tripled and wages have stayed the same.

So next time you feel the need to research me, give me a call.... I will be happy to tell you what we gave up that month to go on our next trip.That way when you post about ME you an have all the correct details.

 

[Free4Life11]

Why is this a problem? Do you assume "the rich" (whatever that refers to) never had to make it on $7 an hour? Plus, wouldn't you want advice from someone who has been successful at accumulating and maintaining wealth?

The point is that many times it comes off as incredibly patronizing. I also think it's made to sound easier than it really is.

Everyone of us on here have a different background, some people might have family who has let them stay in there homes WHILE living on that $7.00 an hour.... some don't have that luxury. We also all live in different parts of the country. I am in FL and right in the middle of where Hurricane Charley hit, our rents went from $700.00 a month to WELL over $1200. a month, however, the pay has all stayed the same. How do you pull up from that?

I think that is a good point. Every situation is different. Just because something has worked for you, doesn't mean it will work for everyone in every single situation so don't make generalizations. Yes there are some very basic principles but every situation is different and has unique challenges.

 

[Free4Life11]

You misquoted me. That second quote wasn't mine.

 

[arminnie]

I don't think anyone thinks its easy or fast. But I think that its frustrating for those of us who have been there - I know I speak for myself - to hear the constant refrain of "but you don't understand." I do understand. And "you haven't been there" - how do you know where I've been? Do I need to give my financial resume everytime I post? I also understand that people who continue to say "it can't be done" won't do it.

Like you I DO understand. It's not fast, it's not easy, and it might not even really happen until the next generation. But the "it can't be done" is all too often just an excuse for perpetuating the cycle of poverty.

For those who are raising their children in poverty, you CAN teach your children to go down a different path. That doesn't cost anything. I knew at a very early age that I did not want to be poor as an adult.

Not everyone can be a multi-millionaire and be rich. Some people do get a head start in life. But none of that means that generation after generation shouldn't even try to better themselves.

No one is telling the $7 an hour folks that their financial situation is just hunky dory and to relax and enjoy it all, but make sure that is not the message you are giving your children.

Quite frankly there are some people living in poverty (getting government benefits not even the $7 and hour) who probably cannot ever hope to reach even "comfortable" but they should want and expect their children or grandchildren to do better.

 

[MrsPete]

I don't think anyone thinks its easy or fast. But I think that its frustrating for those of us who have been there - I know I speak for myself - to hear the constant refrain of "but you don't understand." I do understand. And "you haven't been there" - how do you know where I've been? Do I need to give my financial resume everytime I post? I also understand that people who continue to say "it can't be done" won't do it.

(Disneysteve, Mrs.Pete and arminnie - for sure - have all "been there" as well - maybe not at the "living with a herion addict" or "being forced into a sexual relationship" level of despiration, but I know that all of them have mixed finanical pasts.)

One thing for sure, I'd have never have chosen to have children while I made that income. Nor would I have had children with my first husband, who was not a stable sort of guy (I married believing he'd grow up. He still hasn't.) We've made some choices for financial stablity because financial stablity was important to us, that others won't choose to do - I'm a working mom for a number of reasons, but one is that in this economy, at any time one of us could be jobless with no notice. At one point we were house shopping in Texas because my husband had a job offer there for more money - I'm not fond of Texas, my family is close here, my husband's family is close here, but we considered it (my husband got another offer closer to home). We've both worked jobs we would have loved to quit. And, despite doing fairly well now, I'm back in school at the moment to add to my skills and my employability.

And I'm not young....I'm 40. My kids are six and seven. There has been time, hard work, sacrifice and luck between my needle junkie roomie and now. And I'm not discounting the luck - we were in the right place at the right time.

Feel free to speak for me too -- you've summed up my position exactly. I'm also 40 and very comfortable financially, but I certainly understand what it is like to be poor -- I spent a good number of years living in poverty.

The difference between us and people who stay in that position is that we didn't sit back and whine, "I can't make it on this amount of money." We cut our coats from the cloth we had, and we made do. At my worst, I lived in a two-bedroom apartment with five people (my share of the rent was $80). I didn't have a heroin-addict roommate, but I did have two who smoked pot constantly, and that caused a lot of arguments between us. I would've loved to move out, but I couldn't afford to do it.

I didn't get out of this situation overnight, and I'd never suggest that it was easy. I'd estimate I lived in poverty from age 10 to age 22 -- at times it was absolute destitute poverty, at other times it was almost-making-it poverty, but at no point in those years was I ever even close to the bottom-rung of comfortable. I clearly remember pretending I was skipping lunch because I was dieting; the truth is I was ashamed to walk up and say "free lunch" to the lunch ladies. I remember the year my one Christmas gift was a new set of sheets. In college I remember my only pair of tennis shoes having holes in the soles. I remember my sophomore year NC drastically cut financial aid, and I chose to take on a 3rd job rather than borrow. I remember sneaking food out of the cafeteria on Thursdays and Fridays (my meal plan was all-you-can-eat during the week, but I couldn't afford a 7-day plan); I'd even save the plastic bags and re-use them.

From about 22 to 30 my husband and I were both working, and we had more than was absolutely necessary but we weren't exactly comfortable. The budget was small, so we only had one car; this was tough because we lived way out in the country without any form of public transportation, and we both worked. We started saving then, though we certainly weren't saving much. Around 30 we suddenly found that we had extra money every month, so we really stepped up the savings. Now at 40 I consider us very comfortable.

It's VERY possible to PLAN for 3 generations while making $7 an hour. When I was in college and literally couldn't afford to eat, I was planning for MY future, knowing that it would make my FUTURE CHILDREN's lives better, and knowing that if I raised them right, my GRANDCHILDREN would also have better lives. I certainly wasn't putting away money for them -- or even myself -- at that point, but I certainly was doing a great number of things to dig myself out of a difficult situation: mainly avoiding debt, working towards a degree.

 

[crisi]

It isn't easy. It IS simple in concept. Spend less than you earn - no matter how little you earn. Seperate your needs from your wants - true needs (you CAN live off rice and beans, you CAN live with the thermostat set below 60, you CAN live without a Disney trip). Think ahead - from the near term (if I spend $1 for this bottle of pop today, what won't I be able to afford tomorrow), to the long term (what do I need to do before I have children, what do I need to do to plan for retirement, what can I do to make live better for my grandchildren). But, it isn't easy. I know that standing on a street corner in a sweater and fall jacket when the windchill is 20 below isn't easy (I did have a credit card, I could have charged a winter coat, but I didn't have any way to pay for it). I know that looking at your sixth meal of rice and beans in as many days isn't easy.

 

[momof3littlelilos]

I'm not doing quotes because there's just too much here.
I don't think this thread started with the tone that might have been intended. It did feel a bit patronizing, and the original quote implies an air of superiority over those who are still struggling.
I think it's a drag that when dustysky tried to illustrate how things are difficult for her she got called to task for what someone saw as her frivolous spending. Why begrudge someone for taking advantage of a good deal and trying to create some warm family memories for their kids?
I wasn't speaking of anyone here or their personal situation - just the rich people I actually know IRL. The original title was The Difference Between the Rich and the Poor. There's a lot of grey area - working class and middle class. I used to be poor, now we're working class. I will never be rich. The people I've known who were also born poor, they'll never be rich. That's not defeatism, it's just realistic.
pearliq - when you write "Plus, wouldn't you want advice from someone who has been successful at accumulating and maintaining wealth?" - it sounds a little condescending. I might have missedt the point when advice was requested, if not why make the assumption that it's going to be welcome, or even appropriate advice to the person recieving it?
I also dislike it when advice is given out on how the poor should raise their kids. It implies that we don't do normal free stuff to make them better people - like using libraries or reading to them or encouraging them in their education. As a former poor single mother and now a working class married mom, I can assure you that we do the best we can.
(my DD wants me to use the flaming angry smilie...I am not flaming angry, just frusterated at my inablity to be heard and understood)
the long term - yes, we put money we can't afford into the 401(k).
The putting off kids thing, that's great. But as a person with kids who's struggling I'm not sure how you mean for me to interpret that. Whenever I here that I always infer that the speaker means my kids should have been aborted or passed on to someone else. I'm sure that's not your intent, so I ask about the implication.

 

[dustysky]

You misquoted me. That second quote wasn't mine.

Sorry about that, I copy and pasted the quote thing..... I will be more carefull

 

[arminnie]

I also dislike it when advice is given out on how the poor should raise their kids. It implies that we don't do normal free stuff to make them better people - like using libraries or reading to them or encouraging them in their education. As a former poor single mother and now a working class married mom, I can assure you that we do the best we can.

I am sure that you are doing a great job, but way too many poor people are not. And I'm sure that there are way too many middle class, rich, etc people who are not also. It's just that the consequences are so much worse for the poor kids.

You've made a big step by moving from poor to working class. That's really great, and I commend you on it.

Sometimes people in real poverty do not want their children to change too much; they are afraid of losing them. My own mother cried when I went off to a very expensive private school - and they paid nothing towards it. I remember her saying "how can you go someplace that costs so much?" She really would have been much happier if I had not been reaching out to do better. It frightened her. In the long run she was happy, and as the oldest I was able to help her get a better job when she was in her 50s.

 

[crisi]

The putting off kids thing, that's great. But as a person with kids who's struggling I'm not sure how you mean for me to interpret that. Whenever I here that I always infer that the speaker means my kids should have been aborted or passed on to someone else. I'm sure that's not your intent, so I ask about the implication.

I mean that if you have the opportunity to control your future, grab it. Your past is your past - you have to deal with it. Few people would trade their kids for more money, but recognize that you are the one that made that choice.

 

[Carrie Ellis]

In many many countries our poor are rich to them. For hundreds of thousands of years people lived with out AC but now, one day without is a national crisis. The idea of living without cable or internet would shock some folks.

I homeschool my twin 9 year old boys and I just finished a speech to them about the importance of wanting to learn and being aggressive. I told them that I will not support them as adults. Right now it is important that they take their education and learning serious because they will need it. We talked about consequences. Anyway, I was kind of put out with them today because they were whining about doing anything. We discussed how lucky we are to live in America where opportunities are available. I want them to be happy but responsible.

I would love to be close to family but I would not stay if I had to struggle to take care of my family. My extended family lives outside of Dallas but we have lived in Iowa, Nebraska, Virginia and now Georgia. We could have had the mentality that we had to stay in Texas but we would have missed opportunities. I could understand not moving if you had ailing parents but I don't understand any other reason if you could improve your family's welfare.

To each our own. We are lucky to live where we have choices.

 

[pearlieq]

I mean that if you have the opportunity to control your future, grab it. Your past is your past - you have to deal with it. Few people would trade their kids for more money, but recognize that you are the one that made that choice.

Exactly! Having a child is the single biggest predictor that a woman will end up in poverty. Kids, as much as we love them, are a huge economic risk and burden and they severely limit women's choices and opportunities.

I would encourage any young women to delay having kids as long as possible and to be ultra, ultra careful about birth control.

 

[PaulDavid's mom]

Exactly! Having a child is the single biggest predictor that a woman will end up in poverty. Kids, as much as we love them, are a huge economic risk and burden and they severely limit women's choices and opportunities.

I would encourage any young women to delay having kids as long as possible and to be ultra, ultra careful about birth control.

I understand this quote. It IS a huge dent in the pocket to have kids. But at the same time I want to cringe at this (nothing against the poster). Not everyone wants to wait to have children. Some should. But it doesn't mean they need to. I really do agree with both sides of the argument here. I understand that working hard will get you everywhere. I also understand the statements coming from those who live from paycheck to paycheck.
I myself live paycheck to paycheck (trust me it's not huge). But I do consider myself comfortable. Not super comfy, but enough to not be struggling to get food on the table. I am learning that it takes A LOT of disapline if I want to get ahead. I have to cut a lot of corners. I had to get rid of things I want but really can do without. I even went back to school and am searching for a better job than I already have (one that allows me to use the skills I learned in college)My goal is to someday be comfortable enough where I CAN take a trip to Disney with my family.
I guess my point is that I agree with both sides and I respect both sides of the arguement.

 

[TBuss]

I grew up in a middle-class family ... we had food on the table, toys to play with, occasionally took a family vacation (to a tiny cabin in the middle of no-where, not Disney!!). My parents lived within their means ... they both worked hard and had opposite schedules so there was always someone home. They put family before all else. They taught me the value of money and how to budget. I am very aware of the important life lesson my parents gave me - and am very grateful for it!! They also taught me not to judge other people till you have walked a mile in their shoes ... another lesson I am grateful for having learned.

My husband had a very different upbringing. His father was an alcoholic. His father and uncle had a business together and they had a decent income but because of his father's disease (and the funds it took to support his habit) the family struggled to pay bills. Now, every discussion his family has is about money - they sit around and discuss how much so-and-so makes or how much so-and-so spent on something. My husbands father expects everyone to pay all his bills - he tries to make us feel guilty for not paying what he thinks is our part. I don't have a problem helping him but he thinks we should pay the rent on his house when he has an opportunity to live in a senior housing complex or move in with my sister-in-law!! Is this is the "alcoholic" or the "poor man" in him talking?

As a result of all this financial stress, my husband does not know how to budget. He is obsessed with "hording" money. He pays only the "minimum amount due" on all of his credit card bills even though the interest is higher than the interest he is earning on his bank account. I have talked about it with him till I am blue in the face - he won't change his ways. So, we have separate bank accounts, credit cards, etc - otherwise we would fight constantly about money.

 

[hentob]

Hentob,

First of all show me a single post that I said I was poor. I HAVE been poor, I never once said I was at this time. I think POOR and struggling are to different things. We struggle because I LIKE doing nice things and going places.

My bad. I guess it is a matter of personal comfort. I would never be comfortable sweating it out at the end of the month to see if I would have a phone or lights/power for my house, b/c I chose to have fun irresponsibly. (BTW, you can have fun for free Parks, playgrounds, museums, etc.) I would never want to pass that legacy down to my children. I would also never want to teach them The Blame Game (we had a hurricane and that is why we struggle), when infact it has to do with poor choices.


To each his own. It is just a shame that this mentality is passed down from generation to generation