Did hell freeze over?

[disgirl]

I, too get mail from the place in Texas atleast 4 times a year, very annoying. In the garbage it goes.

 

[Dean]

Stroman out of Texas. WARNING, WARNING, WARNING!!!

Famous up-front fee broker!!!!

google "timeshare resale scams" to find out more about Stroman!

While Stroman is an upfront fee type of broker, they are not in the category as the boiler rooms scams that have been going on the last few years in timesharing. I would never list with them with an upfront fee, however, they can be very good to buy from. And last I heard, they were still the largest timeshare resale company.

 

[T.E. Yeary]

Just so you know, we are starting to mail to our customers, starting with customers from 1994 to present, so don't be surprised if something shows up from us. We are trying to bring customers up to date on some of our programs and update our records as well.

Regards,
Tom

 

[T.E. Yeary]

Dean, I disagree totally!!! Do the internet search and start investigating and you will see what I'm talking about. They may be OK for buyers, but don't fit into my category of "reputable" brokers in their listing tactics.

Read This:

Paid $495 for nothing

I worked at Stroman Realty for over 6 months. I responded to the Gentleman who wrote “paid $495 for nothing,” and tried to illustrate the benefits of paying the upfront fee.
I considered the information to be factual at that time, and was replying in defense of the company.

After I was fired from Stroman Realty I researched some real facts about timeshare resale’s and paying an upfront fee. The chance for your Timeshare selling on the resale market is only about 3.3 percent and at a fraction of the original cost, according to the A.R.D.A.

Stroman Realty receives over 1000 incoming calls a day. The Calls are generated by a massive marketing program targeting the nearly five million existing Timeshare owners prompting them to sell

Around 70 to 100 $499.00 listing fees are collected every day from credit cards, by the Realtors in the boiler room, after reading a carefully crafted scripted sales pitch.

This works out to,
Around….70 new listings per day, $34,930.00 per day
Around….420 new listings per week, $209,400.00 per week
Around….1,680 new listings per month, $837,600.00 per month
Around….20,160 new listings per year. $10,051,200.00 per year

Add the daily new listings to Stroman’s existing database, of over 3 million
Timeshare properties.

Now, what chance does your timeshare property have to sell?

1. Many of the listings are located at the same resort.
Westgate Town Center, Kissimmee, about 170 listings.
Westgate Vacation Villas, Kissimmee, about 385 listings.

2. Right out of the gate it starts out with a 3.3% chance to sell.
3. Is it priced at a 40 to 60 % discount just to qualify for that 3.3% chance?

Odds are you have a better chance of winning the lottery.

Something to consider.

As I spoke to clients calling in, I was following instructions and reading from a script while our conversations were being carefully monitored and controlled by,
Carl Rash, the sales manager and Billy Stevenson, the Manger, 936-588-4488, or toll free, 1-800-733-8846.


This is an excerpt from Timesharing today magazine.
‘Timesharing Today Magazine and the A.R.D.A. Resale Task force have published that they are questioning the policy of some resale companies, wherein a non-refundable upfront listing fee must be submitted as a pre-requisite for listing a timeshare for sale. The Task Force officially bars members from requiring an appraisal. (Upfront fee)
Mandatory upfront fees are prohibited by law in the State of Florida.

A Realtor cannot suggest, or mislead you, regarding the selling price for your Timeshare, or suggest that you will actually make money from an investment point of view.

To do this is a direct violation of the Code of Ethics (see below) and there are consequences.

• Standard of Practice 1-3
REALTORS®, in attempting to secure a listing, shall not deliberately mislead the owner as to market value.

Something to consider.

Rii Stroman Realty agents ARE Realtors.
Did your Realtor get your up-front fee to put your Timeshare for sale in the data base of thousands by having you think you might make your money back?

Did he or she indicate a selling price you might want to get for your Timeshare?
You might have been deliberately misled in attempting to secure a listing. The Realtor might have violated the Code of Ethics.

Do you think your listing Agent is practicing Due Diligence on your behalf?
Doing due diligence is an agent’s legal obligation, as well as a moral and professional one.

Before filling a complaint with the Texas Real Estate Commission, you might try to get your listing fee refunded.

Billy Stevenson is the only person that can ok a refund.
His number is 1-800-733-8846 or 1-936-588-4488
The Broker (Wayne Stroman) is responsible for his Realtors actions.
The Realtors are responsible for adhering to the Code of Ethics.
TREC is responsible for disciplinary actions taken agent the Realtors and Brokers.
For a list of RII Stroman Realty Realtors, copy and past in your address bar,

http://www.trec.state.tx.us/licenseeLookup/LicenseeDetail.aspx?inType=05&inLicno=0416282

Below is the link to the Texas Real Estate Commission complaint form.
http://www.trec.state.tx.us/complaints/Complaint_instructions.asp

 

[Dean]

Dean, I disagree totally!!! Do the internet search and start investigating and you will see what I'm talking about. They may be OK for buyers, but don't fit into my category of "reputable" brokers in their listing tactics.

Tom, your prerogative of course. I am well aware of Stroman, formerly ERA Stroman. I've bought 2 weeks from them and had two others that fell through by no fault of theirs. One week I bought was DVC as was one that fell through (ROFR casualty). Another I bought was Marriott's Grande Ocean. The other one that fell through, the seller was upside down in the loan and couldn't come up with the money to finish the deal.

As I stated, I would not list with any up front fee company. However, I think they are a different breed than the usual upfront fee situation. The usual is where they are really ONLY interested in getting your money and move on and you get nothing in return. They essentially never sell any of the weeks they take in. Stroman is different. They do have a legitimate sales arm and do move many of the units though not necessarily for the dollars promised up front. And at least Stoman will still present offers from a buyer lower than what some think is the going rate and actually make an attempt to get you a week for what you want to pay. Something I've found many resale companies unwilling to do.

 

[T.E. Yeary]

Dean,

It has always been my choice not to deal with any company that charged an upfront fee. I have always considered that to be wrong, mainly because every upfront fee broker that I have ever known told the seller that his timeshare was worth far more than it really was in order to make the upfront fee seem small in comparison to the price they claim they can get for the timeshare. I consider that to be dishonest, and I for one will not do business with a dishonest broker. We all make mistakes, but that is what they are, mistakes, not dishonest dealings. You can deal with whomever you choose. That is your prerogative.

Tom

 

[Dean]

Dean,

It has always been my choice not to deal with any company that charged an upfront fee. I have always considered that to be wrong, mainly because every upfront fee broker that I have ever known told the seller that his timeshare was worth far more than it really was in order to make the upfront fee seem small in comparison to the price they claim they can get for the timeshare. I consider that to be dishonest, and I for one will not do business with a dishonest broker. We all make mistakes, but that is what they are, mistakes, not dishonest dealings. You can deal with whomever you choose. That is your prerogative.

Tom

LOL, talking about ethics and timeshare sales company's, now that's a laugh. There's no doubt there are some companies that are better to deal with than others, but no one should go into a timeshare sale as a buyer or seller, without their eyes wide open. There are simply too many pitfalls for the timid of heart. However, my point was that they are not the same as the run of the mill up front fee company where you won't be able to even get through on the disconnected phone line in a month. Whether they promise what they can't deliver, I don't know. But they do make sales and they do advertise their product and listings. And as such they should not be grouped into the boiler room scamming group carte blanche.

 

[T.E. Yeary]

You obviously haven't done the google search!!!!!!!!

 

[erikthewise]

My scam's better than your scam, my scam's better than yours...

OK so the question is which is worse: (hypothetical values used)
(A) charging $500 for a service whose expected value for the customer is $100, but actually delivering that service
(B) charging $100 for a service which you have no intention of delivering

Congratulations, gentlemen, I admit I am stumped on this one. But I have to agree with Dean that we ought to be able to tell them apart.

 

[byoung]

I'm fairly new bought in June have not received any of these offers let. Hope they stay away.

 

[T.E. Yeary]

The Timeshare Store, Inc. and it's agents have NEVER had a complaint made to the Better Business Bureau, The Department of Business & Professional Regulation, Florida Real Estate Commission, or The Florida Timeshare Bureau.

Thomas E. Yeary (Tom)
Owner/Broker

 

[JimC]

The Timeshare Store, Inc. and it's agents have NEVER had a complaint made to the Better Business Bureau, The Department of Business & Professional Regulation, Florida Real Estate Commission, or The Florida Timeshare Bureau.

Thomas E. Yeary (Tom)
Owner/Broker

I searched for Tom's BBB and license status on the internet before doing business with him. The perfectly clean records and his being a BBB member are why I made the first call. Great service got more business and referrals to others to use him.

 

[T.E. Yeary]

Jim- Thanks, I really appreciate it!

 

[Dean]

You obviously haven't done the google search!!!!!!!!

Tom, I am well aware of many of the situations in Texas, FL and otherwise and have been for 8-10 years. Actually FL has had probably the most activity in the realm of boiler room fly by night companies. From what I can tell, Stroman delivers what they promise in writing though maybe not what they promise verbally. I would put it back on you. I am familiar with the complaints and I have dealt with them on purchases a number of times including the end results I discussed previously. I know for certain that they put an effort into selling the inventory they get as well. Have you dealt with them at all or are you just going by the complaints you see online. As a business person, you know that complaints are not always the whole story.

As I was walking out this morning and thinking about this thread. I though how ironic we were talking about ethics in timesharing. An industry that would not even exist if ethics were employed routinely. Where only 2-3% or so of the units would ever be sold if you only bought from ethical companies and even then, not all reps have been ethical and that includes DVC. IMO, charging members for an entire year of dues while they only get points for part of the year is unethical as well, but it's done with all the companies that I know of that specialize in DVC. And I personally don't see it as any different than the up front fee. Thus I tend to take the realistic approach and look at the big picture and I try not to cut off my nose to spite my face. I try to be ethical in my dealings and minimize my risks otherwise but if one took the stance in timesharing they could only deal with the choir boys, time to get out and never look back, and that includes DVC IMO.

 

[DizneyNutz]

We are difinately not in the resale maket, But I would like to offer you appreciation for the experience you bring to the board. THANK You! Best wishes to you and yours!!!Experience like yours is priceless for those considering selling. Thanks Again!!!

 

[T.E. Yeary]

Tom, I am well aware of many of the situations in Texas, FL and otherwise and have been for 8-10 years. Actually FL has had probably the most activity in the realm of boiler room fly by night companies. From what I can tell, Stroman delivers what they promise in writing though maybe not what they promise verbally. I would put it back on you. I am familiar with the complaints and I have dealt with them on purchases a number of times including the end results I discussed previously. I know for certain that they put an effort into selling the inventory they get as well. Have you dealt with them at all or are you just going by the complaints you see online. As a business person, you know that complaints are not always the whole story.

As I was walking out this morning and thinking about this thread. I though how ironic we were talking about ethics in timesharing. An industry that would not even exist if ethics were employed routinely. Where only 2-3% or so of the units would ever be sold if you only bought from ethical companies and even then, not all reps have been ethical and that includes DVC. IMO, charging members for an entire year of dues while they only get points for part of the year is unethical as well, but it's done with all the companies that I know of that specialize in DVC. And I personally don't see it as any different than the up front fee. Thus I tend to take the realistic approach and look at the big picture and I try not to cut off my nose to spite my face. I try to be ethical in my dealings and minimize my risks otherwise but if one took the stance in timesharing they could only deal with the choir boys, time to get out and never look back, and that includes DVC IMO.

Dean,

I have had phone calls at home from many upfront fee brokers, including your Mr. Big in Texas. The listing reps of course don't know just who they are talking to, only that courthouse records show that I own a timeshare. One thing they all have in common is that they tell you they can sell your timeshare quickly and for big bucks. Stromans "listing" rep. said he could sell my Orange Lake week for $12,000. I played along with him and offered it to him for $5000 telling him he could sell it for the $12,000 and make a very nice profit. But of course he said they didn't work that way. He would have to list it. When I asked for clarification as to whether the $12,000 was a price they sold at or was that just the listing price, he said that they were selling them at that price. Yeah right! In my 23 years in the timeshare business I have spoken with salespeople that had worked with Stroman during their career. One fellow said that he felt so bad about what he was telling the people that he actually started having trouble sleeping at night and had to quit his job at Stroman. He went out on his own and is still in business today in Texas and with NO upfront fees. A Century 21 listing rep from the West Palm Beach area went so far as to claim they could get me $14,000 for my Orange Lake week, but that the banks they used for financing required an "appraisal". He then said that would cost only $499 since they had a special that week and the regular price was $599. As I said before, ALL the upfront fee boys are the same. One other thing, what idiot told you that if you only bought from ethical brokers that only 2-3% of timeshares would be sold?

You make it sound like the broker gets the money for the reimbursement of annual dues on a DVC. It goes directly into the sellers pocket! We don't even make a commission on it. We are simply following the sellers orders. If the seller wants reimbursement for the dues on the points being passed to the buyer, who are you to tell him that is "unethical" in asking for that? That is really a stretch to call that an upfront fee. The big difference between an upfront fee and annual dues reimbursement, one goes to the broker, the other goes to the seller.

This is America and if you want, you can start your own resale company and you can tell the sellers they "must" prorate their dues, according to "Deans Law". No one, including yourself, has ever shown me that the way you insist it should be done, is the correct way.

I'd like to suggest we quit this petty bickering and move on. I'm tired of it and I'm sure the other board members are too.

Tom

 

[Dean]

Dean,

I have had phone calls at home from many upfront fee brokers, including your Mr. Big in Texas. The listing reps of course don't know just who they are talking to, only that courthouse records show that I own a timeshare. One thing they all have in common is that they tell you they can sell your timeshare quickly and for big bucks. Stromans "listing" rep. said he could sell my Orange Lake week for $12,000. I played along with him and offered it to him for $5000 telling him he could sell it for the $12,000 and make a very nice profit. But of course he said they didn't work that way. He would have to list it. When I asked for clarification as to whether the $12,000 was a price they sold at or was that just the listing price, he said that they were selling them at that price. Yeah right! In my 23 years in the timeshare business I have spoken with salespeople that had worked with Stroman during their career. One fellow said that he felt so bad about what he was telling the people that he actually started having trouble sleeping at night and had to quit his job at Stroman. He went out on his own and is still in business today in Texas and with NO upfront fees. A Century 21 listing rep from the West Palm Beach area went so far as to claim they could get me $14,000 for my Orange Lake week, but that the banks they used for financing required an "appraisal". He then said that would cost only $499 since they had a special that week and the regular price was $599. As I said before, ALL the upfront fee boys are the same. One other thing, what idiot told you that if you only bought from ethical brokers that only 2-3% of timeshares would be sold?

You make it sound like the broker gets the money for the reimbursement of annual dues on a DVC. It goes directly into the sellers pocket! We don't even make a commission on it. We are simply following the sellers orders. If the seller wants reimbursement for the dues on the points being passed to the buyer, who are you to tell him that is "unethical" in asking for that? That is really a stretch to call that an upfront fee. The big difference between an upfront fee and annual dues reimbursement, one goes to the broker, the other goes to the seller.

This is America and if you want, you can start your own resale company and you can tell the sellers they "must" prorate their dues, according to "Deans Law". No one, including yourself, has ever shown me that the way you insist it should be done, is the correct way.

I'd like to suggest we quit this petty bickering and move on. I'm tired of it and I'm sure the other board members are too.

Tom

Tom, my point was that that there are many ways to look at unethical issues within timesharing. One must look at the overall situation and decide. IMO, charging a full years fee for a few months points is unethical, not to single you out but to show there are many issues in timesharing and to pick one that is common to the ones that specialize in DVC. The reason for that is that opinion is that DVC charges dues on a calendar year basis and specifically states so. They further specifically state it is NOT for the points you get in X month. This position is further supported that over the years DVC has charged dues from when you purchase within the year OR when you get the points, which ever is later. IF you buy in Feb and get your first points in August, you only pay 5 months of dues. The only two other pieces of info that I can think of that would be applicable are what happens with dues the last year or two and if one could find a contract where DVC exercised it’s ROFR and it did not spell out what was to happen with the dues, how did they handle it. Since we’re talking DVC, this can be the only measure of what’s appropriate. This is further supported to me that on my last two purchases the broker did call DVC to check to see what was appropriate since they had the same view as do you and in both cases came back apologizing for being wrong, I know you don’t have access to that info.

If I wanted to be in timeshare sales, I would have done so years ago as I enjoy it. However, to say the difference doesn’t go into your pocket is misleading. You charge a fee and if you make a sale, that is where you get the fee. You are the sellers agent and the money in question go to the sellers pocket and not DVC. To be clear, I have always steered people away from up front brokers for selling. If one took the stance that they would stay away from every company that had an unethical issue, one could probably never associate with any timeshare system or resort and that includes DVC and Marriott.

I am well aware of the tactics of up front brokers, Stroman and otherwise. I’ve stated so many times. There have been many indictments and a number of convictions centered around this area, esp in FL. I have no problems you pointing out the problems of the industry. However, in my business, running down a competitor is considered poor form. Your company has a good reputation and it is well earned and I applaud you for that. I have informed many people about your company and will continue to do so in the future because of that reputation as well as your inventory and because of the overall circumstances, even if I disagree with the one specific point. BTW, I’m pretty sure that Doc holds the same opinion as I on the appropriate dues allotment, at least he has said so in the past.

 

[T.E. Yeary]

It amazes me, that this whole thing started with my telling the board members to beware of Stroman. You immediately jump in and start saying I'm wrong, well I'm NOT backing down from what I said and I stand by it!

This is not the first time you've jumped in after I've made a remark and belittled what I had to say. You seem to take pleasure in doing this type of thing. I'm putting you on notice, the gloves are OFF!

You made remarks and implications that had nothing to do with the issue.

YOU MADE IT PERSONAL!

One more time, in Resales the seller dictates what he wants!

If the buyer wants the dues prorated, we pass that on to the seller!

It is up to them what they want to do, a compromise of some sort is usually the solution!

For the record, we are a "transaction" broker, we do NOT represent the seller but represent both parties in a fair and impartial manner.

Tom

 

[Dean]

Tom, I sent you a personal message. It is my goal to deal with the issues at hand as best I know how, I have ALWAYS done that.