Details of POTC Update/Refurb

[2Xited4Disney]

Well ex Ds I believe that is something we can agree on




eventhough I'll admit it I watched Lion King 1 1/2 ....

it it was actually QUITE good

 

[Linzybrooke]

I have to admit that I can see the sides of all involved and agree with aspects of both. Maybe my position can shed a little light on this situation and perhaps open peoples eyes to see more than what is directly in front of them.

When I heard about the Pirates revamp I was a little upset. I love the original and can't imagine "messing with a classic" as it has been put, but the more I thought about it the more I realized the need for such a change. A few people have already mentioned the lack of lines for this, and other, attractions; this only goes to show that as the times change as the original Disney kids grow up the new generation needs something else to grab onto. They don't recognize the older attractions as classics, they only notice what is missing, and in this case it is Jack Sparrow and his crew. I wish they were just going to add in the characters and not mess with the dialogue, but things are as they will be.

The only time I ever waited in line for POC was my first trip in 1992. Since then I have waited less than 10 minutes each time, including July 4th, 1999. Kids just aren't as interested in the older attractions. Same goes for HM, Enchanted Tiki Room, even, and I hate to say it, Mr. Toad; if they aren't interested in the characters then they just skip the attraction all together. The faultering ride lines along with faultering attendance at the parks, coupled with the opening of Islands of Adventure and new movie attractions at Universal, forced Disney to make some big decisions. Face it, the financial success of the theme parks is keeping Disney afloat and they have to be able to keep up with the times. The Universal parks have rides for The Mummy, Men in Black, and many more giant block busters. Disney would be stupid to ignore this trend, whether we agree with it or not.

On the subject of Disney sequals I have an interesting perspective...I manager a Disney Store and have seen the actual success of these films. While I agree that they tend to be pretty bland and unoriginal, children really relate to them. Arguably, their purpose is actually to spark interest in the older classics and get the kids of today to watch the originals. Bambi II has been out for only a week and already I see an increase in the interest in Bambi, the characters, the music, etc. I see this as a good thing! There are so many wonderful Disney films that have fallen through the cracks because they aren't Princess movies or films from the Disney Renaissance of the early 90's that I welcome anything that will reaquaint the young generation with films such as The Sword in the Stone, Robin Hood and Alice in Wonderland.

 

[dbm20th]

While I agree that they tend to be pretty bland and unoriginal, children really relate to them. Arguably, their purpose is actually to spark interest in the older classics and get the kids of today to watch the originals. Bambi II has been out for only a week and already I see an increase in the interest in Bambi, the characters, the music, etc. I see this as a good thing! There are so many wonderful Disney films that have fallen through the cracks because they aren't Princess movies or films from the Disney Renaissance of the early 90's that I welcome anything that will reaquaint the young generation with films such as The Sword in the Stone, Robin Hood and Alice in Wonderland.

This is a great angle. Thanks!

 

[dbm20th]

In my original post I did not say that the changes to the ride would be a flop. I just stated that I did not like the idea of them adding characters from a movie, this movie to the ride. There was nothing wrong with the ride to begin with and since Pirates was an original Disney creation, I think any additions to the ride should be original as well.

Not to split hairs but what you said was...

"Personally, I could not be any more upset at the fact that Disney is going to permanently ruin both of the Pirates of the Caibbean attractions in the U.S."

That's different from simply "not liking it". You said very certainly that it would be "permanently ruined". All I am saying is that you don't know that. It seems you are upset with the "commercialization" going on here. As far as I am concerned, Jack Sparrow will bring the kids back to POTC and perhaps enhance it, but I have no way of knowing that and neither do you. That's all

 

[dbm20th]

I find it out odd that a POTC thread turns somehow morphs into a debate on the merits of Martix Reloaded and National Treasure.

Well. that's your faul isn't it?

 

[exDS vet]

Maybe my position can shed a little light on this situation and perhaps open peoples eyes to see more than what is directly in front of them.

A few people have already mentioned the lack of lines for this, and other, attractions;

The only time I ever waited in line for POC was my first trip in 1992. Since then I have waited less than 10 minutes each time, including July 4th, 1999. Kids just aren't as interested in the older attractions.

On the subject of Disney sequals I have an interesting perspective...I manager a Disney Store and have seen the actual success of these films.

Okay, so here's some more perspective:
I think POTC is still a very popular ride. When I was at DL last July, the wait to get on the ride was over 45 minutes. I believe that Fastpass was added to this and a few other rides to create standby lines that make it appear that the rides are more busy. The fact is that POTC has a capacity of over 3,000 riders an hour when the maximum number of boats are running. You always hear people complaining about long rides. Only here, will you hear people suggesting that rides are no longer popular because Disney did something right and maximized the capacity.

Other rides have not been so lucky. Mr. Toad, the Skyway, Submarine Voyage, etc. all had very low capacity and high labor costs to run (skyway and submarines). I'm sure they have something new planned to address the capacity situation for the "Nemo" ride, or the lines will be disasterous.

On to the sequels. I don't mean to sound harsh, but you touched on a sensitive subject here. I managed a Disney Store for several years. First of all, you cannot assume that these sequels do anything for the original movies. Nothing is needed to support the enduring legacy of the classics. They have survived for generations on their own. More than any motion pictures in history. Look at how many times these original films have been re-released in theaters and on home video. It is typical for a TDS store manager to defend these retail items. The sad truth however is that these sequels do nothing for the bottom line at a Disney Store.

Now I know that some will argue this point saying that they draw people into the stores. This is true, but the profit margin on the videos in the stores is next to nothing. Disney itself makes a pretty penny on them, and that's why they keep producing them. The "guests" are trained to purchase anything the company releases with the names of the classic characters. And most of the castmembers are trained to embrace everything Disney does, good or bad.

The only thing that I am willing to stipulate to everyone is that parents are obviously pressured to buy these videos for their young kids. Of course if Disney has trained their guests and castmembers, look at the number that they have done on millions of children by mass-marketing this less than Disney quality crap. The kids are too young to appreciate the difference.

 

[MJMcBride]

I have to admit that I can see the sides of all involved and agree with aspects of both. Maybe my position can shed a little light on this situation and perhaps open peoples eyes to see more than what is directly in front of them.

When I heard about the Pirates revamp I was a little upset. I love the original and can't imagine "messing with a classic" as it has been put, but the more I thought about it the more I realized the need for such a change. A few people have already mentioned the lack of lines for this, and other, attractions; this only goes to show that as the times change as the original Disney kids grow up the new generation needs something else to grab onto. They don't recognize the older attractions as classics, they only notice what is missing, and in this case it is Jack Sparrow and his crew. I wish they were just going to add in the characters and not mess with the dialogue, but things are as they will be.

The only time I ever waited in line for POC was my first trip in 1992. Since then I have waited less than 10 minutes each time, including July 4th, 1999. Kids just aren't as interested in the older attractions. Same goes for HM, Enchanted Tiki Room, even, and I hate to say it, Mr. Toad; if they aren't interested in the characters then they just skip the attraction all together. The faultering ride lines along with faultering attendance at the parks, coupled with the opening of Islands of Adventure and new movie attractions at Universal, forced Disney to make some big decisions. Face it, the financial success of the theme parks is keeping Disney afloat and they have to be able to keep up with the times. The Universal parks have rides for The Mummy, Men in Black, and many more giant block busters. Disney would be stupid to ignore this trend, whether we agree with it or not.

On the subject of Disney sequals I have an interesting perspective...I manager a Disney Store and have seen the actual success of these films. While I agree that they tend to be pretty bland and unoriginal, children really relate to them. Arguably, their purpose is actually to spark interest in the older classics and get the kids of today to watch the originals. Bambi II has been out for only a week and already I see an increase in the interest in Bambi, the characters, the music, etc. I see this as a good thing! There are so many wonderful Disney films that have fallen through the cracks because they aren't Princess movies or films from the Disney Renaissance of the early 90's that I welcome anything that will reaquaint the young generation with films such as The Sword in the Stone, Robin Hood and Alice in Wonderland.

If I agree with you can I get some free stuff from your Disney Store?

 

[Linzybrooke]

If I agree with you can I get some free stuff from your Disney Store?

I wish! Under TCP ownership us employees don't even get stuff for free. Not like there is anything worth having at TDS anymore unless you are a 7 year old girl...

 

[dbm20th]

I wish! Under TCP ownership us employees don't even get stuff for free. Not like there is anything worth having at TDS anymore unless you are a 7 year old girl...

So that means when they do give away free stuff you will let us all know You da bomb!

 

[Linzybrooke]

Okay, so here's some more perspective:
I think POTC is still a very popular ride. When I was at DL last July, the wait to get on the ride was over 45 minutes. I believe that Fastpass was added to this and a few other rides to create standby lines that make it appear that the rides are more busy. The fact is that POTC has a capacity of over 3,000 riders an hour when the maximum number of boats are running. You always hear people complaining about long rides. Only here, will you hear people suggesting that rides are no longer popular because Disney did something right and maximized the capacity.

Other rides have not been so lucky. Mr. Toad, the Skyway, Submarine Voyage, etc. all had very low capacity and high labor costs to run (skyway and submarines). I'm sure they have something new planned to address the capacity situation for the "Nemo" ride, or the lines will be disasterous.

At WDW Pirates is not a FastPass ride and they are rarely operating more than one line until close to the end when they split everyone up. The first time I went I waited in line for over an hour, now its literaly a walk on. Even Cast Members will tell you that Pirates is not nearly as popular as it used to be even 10 years ago. Yes, it is still very popular but it is no longer as popular as in years past. Plus, younger children are disappointed when they don't see Jack and other Pirates film characters; especially those that saw the film before their first trip to the parks.

On to the sequels. I don't mean to sound harsh, but you touched on a sensitive subject here. I managed a Disney Store for several years. First of all, you cannot assume that these sequels do anything for the original movies. Nothing is needed to support the enduring legacy of the classics. They have survived for generations on their own. More than any motion pictures in history. Look at how many times these original films have been re-released in theaters and on home video. It is typical for a TDS store manager to defend these retail items. The sad truth however is that these sequels do nothing for the bottom line at a Disney Store.

Now I know that some will argue this point saying that they draw people into the stores. This is true, but the profit margin on the videos in the stores is next to nothing. Disney itself makes a pretty penny on them, and that's why they keep producing them. The "guests" are trained to purchase anything the company releases with the names of the classic characters. And most of the castmembers are trained to embrace everything Disney does, good or bad.

The only thing that I am willing to stipulate to everyone is that parents are obviously pressured to buy these videos for their young kids. Of course if Disney has trained their guests and castmembers, look at the number that they have done on millions of children by mass-marketing this less than Disney quality crap. The kids are too young to appreciate the difference.

You seem to be assuming a lot about me as a store manager. I saw on your website that you managed for a couple of years but haven't in a while. I have been with TDS since 1999 and have gone through all the growing pains and the sale to TCP as a manager for the last 2 years. I don't need to be reminded of how the bottom line works or told that Disney has basically brainwashed me into selling everything they put in my hands.

Now, why is it that you can tell me that I can't assume that these films do nothing for the originals? I could tell you the same thing, you can't assume that they don't. I disagree with your position here, and about your position on the bottom line. While I know that we get literally nothing for selling media the selling of said media branches out into cross-departments; my store alone sold 37 plush Bambi's last week with the release of Bambi II. But, I'm not here to argue selling strategy with someone who has been removed from the stores since 2001.

Many children know about the Princess movies and Peter Pan...what happened to the rest? They were basically forgotten in the rash of new films with more updated themes and characters. Ask most 7 year olds who Wart or Archimedes are and they will give you a blank stare...hence there is a need to put these older films out and if it involves a sequal that is Disney's perogative. I agree that most of the sequals aren't up to par, but it isn't like they are putting them on the big screen. Most parents don't mind purchasing these films. I have conversations almost daily about how sequals have allowed them to sit down with their kids and introduce them to the originals, the favorites of their childhood. If this gets families to sit down together good for them!

The last rerelease from Disney was Fantasia 2000 and before that I believe it was Snow White in about 1992 (or around there), I don't count The Lion King and Beauty and the Beast rereleases. So, any child born in the last 10 years or so either hasn't had a chance to see a Disney classic in theatres or was too young to remember it.

I really didn't post anything just to egg you on...though that seems to be what you think everyone is doing. I will say this though, you have decided your opinion and are entitled too it, but there are other views and opinions out there and you can't prove or disprove any of them. You started this thread with professionalism and dignity, now you are just shooting down every opinion that you don't agree with. It's getting redundant and starting to sound like a temper tantrum. Please respect the views of others, in doing so they will respect yours.

 

[dbm20th]

The last rerelease from Disney was Fantasia 2000 and before that I believe it was Snow White in about 1992 (or around there), I don't count The Lion King and Beauty and the Beast rereleases. So, any child born in the last 10 years or so either hasn't had a chance to see a Disney classic in theatres or was too young to remember it.

Does this mean in the theaters? That is really the only theatrical rereleases in the last decade? I didn't know that.

I have also read that the Bambi II sales are very good. Is that true? Better than expected?

The thing here that is lost is we are not even talking about a sequel. This is just an addition to a ride. An update to make the "classic" lovers happy and the "Sparrow" kids happy. AND WE HAVE NO IDEA IF IT IS GOOD OR NOT! I will be the first one to re-visit this board later in the year and tell the OP that he is right if it stinks. But I'm willing to give Capt. Sparro a try, and am excited about his introduction

 

[BuzzMan]

I was at WDW this past Christmas/New Years and rode POTC 4 times spread out over the stay. On all four occassions I walked on with no wait (OK, maybe 1 minute). Maybe I was just lucky (or maybe not since standing in the queue sort of got you in the spirit of the ride) but I suspect that it has a lot to do with lack of interest. I hate to see Disney mess up a classic (maybe they won't mess it up) too but I can't imagine them not doing something.

I can also tell you that I had pretty much the same experience with no wait time when I was there over the 2004 holiday as well.

 

[Linzybrooke]

Does this mean in the theaters? That is really the only theatrical rereleases in the last decade? I didn't know that.

Well, they rereleased The Lion King and Beauty and the Beast, but since they were only 10 years or so old at the time I wouldn't consider it the same as rereleasing, say, Sleeping Beauty or Robin Hood.

I have also read that the Bambi II sales are very good. Is that true? Better than expected?

Much better than expected. I'm pretty shocked...it may be because Patrick Stewart voices Bambi's dad and he has an oh-so-sexy voice...

The thing here that is lost is we are not even talking about a sequel. This is just an addition to a ride. An update to make the "classic" lovers happy and the "Sparrow" kids happy. AND WE HAVE NO IDEA IF IT IS GOOD OR NOT! I will be the first one to re-visit this board later in the year and tell the OP that he is right if it stinks. But I'm willing to give Capt. Sparro a try, and am excited about his introduction

I agree, this entire thread has gotten pretty off-topic. Sadly I will be there in June while it is closed down. You will have to let me know how it turns out! I hope it isn't a dissapointment.

Here's one little technology tid-bit for Pirates though... My husband deals with theatrical lighting and sound equipment. When we were there in 2004 for our Honeymoon he was looking at the equipment around the cyc screen all through the ride, (hes a nerd like that), and he was all concerned because a lot of the older lights they use aren't made anymore. He was telling me that they needed to at least update the equipment or they wouldn't be able to replace individual parts for much longer.

 

[DisneyBaby!]

The whole place is a cheep marketing ploy, and I love it! There is nothing wrong in changing the rides, they need to and at some attractions, BIG TIME. Tom Saywer island is totally lost on my sons generation, 3 & 5. They are big fans of the Pixar films. They love the Buzz ride and could not care less about some of the "classic" attractions. The fact is the parks are constantly changing and they need to change. There are so many attractions at the parks that anyone younger than, say, 30 can not relate to. Is there anyone younger than 40 that knows there was a movie called Swiss Family Robinson? They will not ruin the ride even if they do completely change the way it was. I just hope the vision of somebody like Steve Jobs, now a board member, can create some new magic at the parks. Remember people, it is no longer 1956, 66, 76, 86 or 96! It is the year 2006, the empire is 50 years old and going strong.

 

[Linzybrooke]

The whole place is a cheep marketing ploy, and I love it! There is nothing wrong in changing the rides, they need to and at some attractions, BIG TIME. Tom Saywer island is totally lost on my sons generation, 3 & 5. They are big fans of the Pixar films. They love the Buzz ride and could not care less about some of the "classic" attractions. The fact is the parks are constantly changing and they need to change. There are so many attractions at the parks that anyone younger than, say, 30 can not relate to. Is there anyone younger than 40 that knows there was a movie called Swiss Family Robinson? They will not ruin the ride even if they do completely change the way it was. I just hope the vision of somebody like Steve Jobs, now a board member, can create some new magic at the parks. Remember people, it is no longer 1956, 66, 76, 86 or 96! It is the year 2006, the empire is 50 years old and going strong.

I couldn't agree more. Welcome to the boards!

 

[dbm20th]

Remember people, it is no longer 1956, 66, 76, 86 or 96! It is the year 2006, the empire is 50 years old and going strong.

Nice

And I thought I was getting people all fired up

Release the "timeless classics" hounds!

 

[MJMcBride]

Maybe they can add a 50 foot flume to Its a Small World.

 

[dbm20th]

Maybe they can add a 50 foot flume to Its a Small World.

Then I may actually go on

 

[kittythepoohbear]

A little OT but an idea I wonder if Disney considered ... remember when they were testing a dinner buffet at El Pirata y el Perico Restaurant in Adventureland? Why didn't they turn that into a Pirates character meal? That would have been a fantastic tie-in to the movies and would have added a great alternative to all the princess meals. How many times have we read or heard about boys who feel a bit left out since WDW has become so princess oriented? This would have given MK a great new character dining experience and they could have left the ride alone. I am pretty sure it would have ended up cheaper than building all the new AA figures as well.

I agree that we all just have to suck it up and see what Disney does with POTC. I just don't trust them too much. I can't think of a ride that Disney "updated" that ended up better than, or at least as good as, the original.

 

[kittythepoohbear]

Maybe they can add a 50 foot flume to Its a Small World.

LOL! But first will come the movie starring Haley Joel Osment as a little lost boy, Danny DeVito as the big villan, and Eva Longoria as the bombshell.