Demand based ticket pricing

[Eoghann]

Correct.

You mean like DS, DHS PH3, TSM 2, Star Wars, Toy Story Land, Frozen, Soarin 2, ROL and Avatar type things?

Those will help-but MK XMAS will always be the draw.

Having incentive to visit the rest of the year is logical IMO. Even with the coming expansion-maybe more so.

Yes exactly stuff like that. All good things in my book, but things that they really ought to have done much sooner. It's not like the attendance increases can have caught them by surprise.

And they already have incentives to visit year round (or almost) what between Food & Wine, Star Wars Weekends, Flower & Garden, assorted marathons, free dining etc. etc.

I just don't buy that demand pricing is about incentivising anything. It's about the fact they have a huge number of people who can only visit in the summer and they're going to capitalize by charging them more.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

It's not like the attendance increases can have caught them by surprise.

Unless its all fake like others on here claim. Not sure why they are pumping in $10 Billion worth of expansions this decade if its all fake but......

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Actually I am staying in a Grand Villa at the BW on my FIL's points this time. I am paying for everything but the room this trip, I am in the process of becoming a DVC member myself, I have paid for many Disney vacations before, and I will pay for many more Disney vacations in the future. Who pays for a room on ONE trip has no bearing, and attacking me personally for having an opinion different than your own is not a great way to have a debate with people. We are all in different circumstances, we all have different opinions on what is a good value and what is not, we are all in different financial situations, none of that means that any persons opinion is more or less correct than your own. If you disagree with me and debate the facts and/or opinions that I have, I am more than happy to do that. However, I am not going to respond to any more posts that want to denigrate me because I am not paying for my room on this one vacation.

You're kidding, right?

I was being facetious...

Seriously? A week worth's of quoting Donald trump mentality and throwing stones from inside the glass house... And you're staying in a $1500 room with points somebody else bought long ago?

The lectures about "you bought a simple timeshare" and " I think the prices are fair"...
...and you're using pre 2000 priced vacation club points?

Wow...It's all opinion here...but wow.

Can your FIL float some cash back to me for the Disney wedding and DVC contract I DID pay for?...when I was younger than you are?

Enjoy the Hoop Dee Do

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Have you been there then? Access is one thing, getting anything done is far different.

Phased closings are horrible. It also means the days around it are very close to phased closings as well, esp XMAS week.

I'm saying it is getting worse/busier every year. Should they just keep on the same path and phase close even sooner and more often?

Spreading guests into the rest of the year may be beneficial.

I don't think "what you can accomplish" is any of their concern.

In fact...I think it is opening the door to steeper price increase..."look folks...we're trying"

If it was about demand...they could have you buy specific days...or even better use their wealth of knowledge and data to look at hotel occupancy and advanced sales, dining, etc and then STOP SELLING TICKETS as the picture becomes clear.

Would they ever do that? Hells no. And that is the one way to truly do "demand based pricing". Hard caps.

They'll continue price increases and use the standard "working to improve the guest experience"...like going to the closer in the ninth...but it rings more and more hollow as long as CMB and his Burbank syndicate are in charge.

Just my take.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

As for the crowding, or perception of crowding ... remember that Disney can either operate all the rides, restaurant, lunch counters, shows at high capacity, or they can cut back on staff and reduce the number of tracks, vehicles, tables, servers, cashiers, cooks and adjust individual venue operating hours and schedules. Plus bus and monorail schedules. Mode 'B' might give the feeling of huge crowds due to people milling around. Waiting for the parade starting over 1 hour before because they're not certain of being able to get in and out of Pirates in that time ... for example.

It may be that there really is an unprecedented surge of travelers to Orlando this autumn ... or it may be Mode 'B'.

I'd be interested in hearing evidence to support either theory. Are the resorts super busy, in the places where it would show like around the pools (assuming pools aren't roped off and in mode 'B')

Is Universal crazy busy this month? Are the offsite resorts full and is I-Drive jammed most of the time? (compared to previous autumns)

A Disney-only surge would tend to make me suspicious. I know about pixie dust and everything but ... what about flue powder. And we know that announcements of future attractions (Frozen, Avatar, Toy Story, Star Wars) don't cause a surge of visitors, they tend to cause a drought as people "save up" and wait in the weeds for the new thing.

I just don't buy that demand pricing is about incentivising anything. It's about the fact they have a huge number of people who can only visit in the summer and they're going to capitalize by charging them more.

But like I said will raising the prices actually get people to not go during Christmas week? I don't think so.

I don't think "what you can accomplish" is any of their concern.

In fact...I think it is opening the door to steeper price increase..."look folks...we're trying"

If it was about demand...they could have you buy specific days...or even better use their wealth of knowledge and data to look at hotel occupancy and advanced sales, dining, etc and then STOP SELLING TICKETS as the picture becomes clear.

Would they ever do that? Hells no. And that is the one way to truly do "demand based pricing". Hard caps.

They'll continue price increases and use the standard "working to improve the guest experience"...like going to the closer in the ninth...but it rings more and more hollow as long as CMB and his Burbank syndicate are in charge.

Just my take.

Some interesting takes on here.

1) They can charge any amount they want, and folks will still go. Then why not charge more?

2) They are faking attendance numbers, its far less than what it appears. Purposely making visits worse to further diminish crowds.

3) They are spending $10 Billion this decade on expansions-but they don't need to spend a dime (see #1 and #2). Why would they do that-both go directly against #1 and #2?

Or is it possible:

1) It is getting more popular than ever, and crowds actually are increasing. And they want them to continue to increase-esp over the entire year.

2) Prices do matter. Give more options for park tickets because some percentage will be spread into lower season visits. Some percentage will choose gold, and stop going peak weeks.

3) Expansion is needed to increase options for guests. Make DHS and AK attract more all day guests and reduce pressure from MK and EPCOT. Rework DTD for more guest attraction. Add Frozen and Soarin 2 for EPCOT and TSM 2 for DHS. FP+ also spreads visitors throughout the day-allowing more guests to visit each day.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Did I get the "honorary degree" on your post?

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

Did I get the "honorary degree" on your post?

Its all yours.

 

[rteetz]

They are faking attendance numbers

They can't fake attendance numbers because they don't release official attendance numbers. TEA releases estimates and that's all we can go off of.

 

[rteetz]

3) Expansion is needed to increase options for guests. Make DHS and AK attract more all day guests and reduce pressure from MK and EPCOT. Rework DTD for more guest attraction. Add Frozen and Soarin 2 for EPCOT and TSM 2 for DHS. FP+ also spreads visitors throughout the day-allowing more guests to visit each day.

Definitely agree with this

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

Definitely agree with this

But why would they do that if they already can charge any amount they want (your words), and also if the attendance is being made to look higher than it is (they know they have enough space and attractions for the "actual" crowd size)?

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

They can't fake attendance numbers because they don't release official attendance numbers. TEA releases estimates and that's all we can go off of.

Well whatever Josh was saying about "perception", it is busy-when its really not (less attendance than its made to look).

 

[Josh Hendy]

They can't fake attendance numbers because they don't release official attendance numbers. TEA releases estimates and that's all we can go off of.

TEA doesn't make estimates. They ask the theme park companies how many guests they had, then they publish the numbers.

As I've pointed out before, it's been said that as a favor to Disney (because they're the 800 lb gorilla of theme park companies), the numbers reported by the other companies are collected first. Then they're shown to Disney, with the request, here's what the other guys said, um, please sir, what are your numbers for the year?

I don't think that Disney is flat-out lying about their numbers or faking them, either in what they report to TEA or in what appears to be the crowd levels at a time like right now, when people are reporting anomalously large crowds that are inexplicable for the time of year.

Here's what I actually think Disney is doing. Speculating from 2000 miles away in a state of nearly completely ignorance:

I think the numbers reported by Disney to TEA may be massaged, torqued and/or manipulated and stretched to make DHS, AK and even Epcot look like less of the red-haired, jug-eared stepsisters that they are. I think they do this by distributing park-hopping days to make the non-MK parks seem more popular than they are. And I think that they might also be counting unused, expired Magic Your Way days as "visits" to whichever park they think needs some statistical love. Maybe. I don't know. It might explain why a relative dog of a park like DHS "beat" a beauty queen of a park like USF in 2014. By 25% ??? That's a LOT of Star Tours rides.

As for this autumn - I don't think that Disney set out to create fake crowd levels. Either they are getting a ridiculously big surge in attendance ... for reasons that totally escape me, after checking out the stats for real household incomes (falling more or less steadily since 2000) and retail sales (precipitous). Or else, BECAUSE of these precipitous numbers, they are cutting back on - let's call it "guest experience" - not in order to build a case for price increases, but because they think that the cutbacks, PLUS the price increases, are the only way that they can maintain profit levels during what appears to them to be a deep and worsening financial downturn.

I speculate.

 

[rteetz]

But why would they do that if they already can charge any amount they want (your words), and also if the attendance is being made to look higher than it is (they know they have enough space and attractions for the "actual" crowd size)?

So they can get even more people to WDW. They know MK is where everyone wants to go and they know crowds are going to increase there. They need to disperse the crowds a little bit to allow for more people overall at the resort.

 

[rteetz]

TEA doesn't make estimates. They ask the theme park companies how many guests they had, then they publish the numbers.

As I've pointed out before, it's been said that as a favor to Disney (because they're the 800 lb gorilla of theme park companies), the numbers reported by the other companies are collected first. Then they're shown to Disney, with the request, here's what the other guys said, um, please sir, what are your numbers for the year?

I don't think that Disney is flat-out lying about their numbers or faking them, either in what they report to TEA or in what appears to be the crowd levels at a time like right now, when people are reporting anomalously large crowds that are inexplicable for the time of year.

Here's what I actually think Disney is doing. Speculating from 2000 miles away in a state of nearly completely ignorance:

I think the numbers reported by Disney to TEA may be massaged, torqued and/or manipulated and stretched to make DHS, AK and even Epcot look like less of the red-haired, jug-eared stepsisters that they are. I think they do this by distributing park-hopping days to make the non-MK parks seem more popular than they are. And I think that they might also be counting unused, expired Magic Your Way days as "visits" to whichever park they think needs some statistical love. Maybe. I don't know. It might explain why a relative dog of a park like DHS "beat" a beauty queen of a park like USF in 2014. By 25% ??? That's a LOT of Star Tours rides.

As for this autumn - I don't think that Disney set out to create fake crowd levels. Either they are getting a ridiculously big surge in attendance ... for reasons that totally escape me, after checking out the stats for real household incomes (falling more or less steadily since 2000) and retail sales (precipitous). Or else, BECAUSE of these precipitous numbers, they are cutting back on - let's call it "guest experience" - not in order to build a case for price increases, but because they think that the cutbacks, PLUS the price increases, are the only way that they can maintain profit levels during what appears to them to be a deep and worsening financial downturn.

I speculate.

From everything I've found is yes the TEA asks Theme park companies for numbers but obviously the numbers don't have to be 100% accurate because the companies don't release official numbers. How do we know the TEA numbers are real or not. How do we know if the theme park companies gave them any info at all and then the TEA has to estimate.

I definitely agree with you that the numbers are tweaked a bit. Many firmly believe Tokyo Disneyland is the busiest theme park but yet MK tops the list every year.

 

[Eoghann]

Some interesting takes on here.

1) They can charge any amount they want, and folks will still go. Then why not charge more?

2) They are faking attendance numbers, its far less than what it appears. Purposely making visits worse to further diminish crowds.

3) They are spending $10 Billion this decade on expansions-but they don't need to spend a dime (see #1 and #2). Why would they do that-both go directly against #1 and #2?

Well I never said they could charge any amount, in fact I've repeatedly said that eventually there is a tipping point but that they will keep increasing until they find it and they clearly haven't hit it yet.

I also don't think attendance is being faked but I am wondering if the increased wait times (which is what really matters rather than raw attendance) is partly a result of cost cutting. Less CM's and insufficient refurbishment means slower loading and less functioning rides. DHS is a special case here, in DHS I think the increased wait times directly correlate with less things to do.

So while 3 might go against 1 & 2 it doesn't go against anything I've said. 3 is about future proofing and potentially even greater profits in the following decade. That doesn't speak at all to their wish to maximize profits in the short term.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

So they can get even more people to WDW.

I get that part.

But if they want even more guests to visit-why would they artificially inflate line times and dining wait times etc, making the experience worse than it needs to be? Why have that unnecessary negative experience inflated even further? There is no way that "increases" the amount of guests wanting to visit.

They need to disperse the crowds a little bit to allow for more people overall at the resort.

Exactly the same as over the entire year. That is why they want a percent to buy the cheaper gold pass and skip peak, and visit other times of the year.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

Well I never said they could charge any amount, in fact I've repeatedly said that eventually there is a tipping point but that they will keep increasing until they find it and they clearly haven't hit it yet.

Never said you did. That's the rteetz quote.

I just don't buy that demand pricing is about incentivising anything. It's about the fact they have a huge number of people who can only visit in the summer and they're going to capitalize by charging them more.

But like I said will raising the prices actually get people to not go during Christmas week? I don't think so.

I also don't think attendance is being faked but I am wondering if the increased wait times (which is what really matters rather than raw attendance) is partly a result of cost cutting. Less CM's and insufficient refurbishment means slower loading and less functioning rides. DHS is a special case here, in DHS I think the increased wait times directly correlate with less things to do.

So while 3 might go against 1 & 2 it doesn't go against anything I've said. 3 is about future proofing and potentially even greater profits in the following decade. That doesn't speak at all to their wish to maximize profits in the short term.

So the higher they can get the wait times-the fewer visitors will come is what they are after?

 

[rteetz]

Exactly the same as over the entire year. That is why they want a percent to buy the cheaper gold pass and skip peak, and visit other times of the year.

I just don't know if doing the tiers will actually disperse crowds like intended. Maybe a little but will that little bit be enough?

 

[Eoghann]

So the higher they can get the wait times-the fewer visitors will come is what they are after?

No I don't think it's deliberate I think it is a side-effect. I think they make changes to cut costs and the result is longer wait lines.

That they can then cite those long waits as part of the justification for moving to demand based pricing (which will actually be an increase in all pricing) is just a little bonus not the goal.

 

[Planogirl]

No I don't think it's deliberate I think it is a side-effect. I think they make changes to cut costs and the result is longer wait lines.

That they can then cite those long waits as part of the justification for moving to demand based pricing (which will actually be an increase in all pricing) is just a little bonus not the goal.

So which came first, the chicken or the egg, the stacking of lines or the increase in prices. It makes me wonder about a lot of things one of which is the actual goal in all of this. Disney has either been caught by surprise by all of this or they weren't and this is all a part of the plan. And I don't mean to sound like they're as sinister as I might be doing.