Deluxe Resorts A Little Out Of Control?

[Travelstovegas]

This is an interesting conversation. I'm pretty new here as I have recently booked our first family trip to Disney for later this year. We're doing a split stay at Wilderness Lodge & AoA. I will admit - when I saw the rates for WL compared to trips I've taken overseas, trans-Atlantic cruises, or my honeymoon at an incredible all-inclusive resort, I was shocked. And I admit that I was also surprised that AoA wasn't that much cheaper than WL when one is a Deluxe and the other is sort of a Moderate. The look & feel of the rooms are not at the same level of other locations that have cost less, and even the resorts themselves don't include quite the level of amenities I might receive elsewhere. As lovely as WL looks to be, it isn't at the same level of other resorts that are "luxury" or "5 star" or whatever rating system you want to use. Yes, I understand that location & convenience are part of the package, and certainly those shouldn't be discounted, even though it's hard to say how much convenience is "worth" since it's subjective. But strictly using the question of "Are the deluxe resorts at Disney out of control on pricing?", to my mind the answer is YES.

I don't doubt that we will enjoy ourselves at Disney, no matter where we stay. To be clear, we are all incredibly fortunate that we can visit with our families, especially those that can go more than once. I understand that we all make choices that affect our budgets & whether we can afford to travel whenever we want or when prices are lowest - and some cannot visit even then. I don't begrudge companies making a profit or anything like that. But I do think it's crazy how expensive it is to travel to Disney with children, even doing so on a budget. Maybe my opinion is influenced by the fact that I connect Disney in my mind with children & families, so I think it should feel more achievable than luxurious adult getaways in the Caribbean or Europe. I would never expect that there only be low-cost places to stay, but at the same time, I sure hope there aren't only high-cost places to stay just because they can get away with charging it. I mean, it's one thing when a company advertises themselves as exclusive & high-end, and people want to pay for that level of fancy, but it seems to me that Disney wants to be connected with a family-friendly vibe. For my own two-cents, they meet the mark of family-friendly in their parks, and I can't even complain too much about ticket prices when I look at other 'theme parks', but most of their resorts do not meet a family-friendly mark from a financial standpoint. I know others view it differently.

 

[Nancyg56]

I look into renting DVC points every trip. I must be doing something wrong with my calculations because the cost is really high and never seems close to a deal.

I'm wondering if 3 or more families are squeezing into these villas and splitting the cost.

On another note, i see the other side of these Disney trips that are so "affordable".

People actually withdrawing from their IRA's and taking out home equity loans not just once but a couple times to go on these Disney trips. Indeed, it is always for Disney trips.

I don't get it.

When I walk around Disney i'm always wondering how many people here can really afford to be here. It's sad.



I really felt this place was a steal, especially compared to POR where we stayed the first night of the trip and it didnt even have a proper closet. Sorry, I do not see the appeal of that place at all and if that's the best moderate hotel Disney offers than people are really getting ripped off.

r.

I think that it is easy to hear a few people discuss charging a trip and then expand on that to believe that most people cannot afford to visit Disney. That thought is not necessarily the reality of those guests you speculate about.

I sometimes wonder how young families in our center can afford the new homes they live in and dovghst on one income. That's because I know we can't. I also know that we seldom buy as much as we can afford, do that enters into my thoughts as well.

The truth is that we all have different priorities, what matters to one means nothing to another. We do not use our line of credit on a vacation but I honestly see no reason why someone else might. The interest is deductible, it is generally low. Depending on personal circumstances the charge may make sense. Not to me, but I'm not going to try to see someone else's financial circumstance based on my own.

If you came to my house you would question our priorities. We don't win new cars. No new furniture. Our tv is a dinosaur. We don't replace a thing before it's broken. I bet some would wonder about our ability to pay for a trip. We can afford to buy more, but those things don't mean anything to us.

Vacation? That does, and we deluxe most of the time. Club level a lot. And we haul a bunch of family with us. Not one penny is charged.

I think that it's easy to look at another's choice with disdain but only those folks know what matters and what they want to spend

 

[eastendlights]

Disney can charge what they do because they are the only game in town if you want to be in the bubble. We have only stayed deluxe, so those are the only resorts I can fairly compare to the "real world" and they are no where near the level of luxury and service to be found for a lot less at places we have stayed like the Four Seasons in NYC, the Mandarin Oriental in Boston, the Ritz-Carlton in Miami and the Fairmont in San Francisco-not even close.

When you take places outside of major cities-where there is much less competition and resorts can charge much more like the Hotel Del Coronado, the Ritz in Laguna Niguel, and the Rancho Valencia in Rancho Santa Fe (which is one of the most expensive/luxurious places we have ever stayed- room rates start at $1000 a night and it is one of the most exquisite resorts you could imagine) and all three are insanely amazing- never-want-to-leave type of places, they are still less costly than Disney's deluxe rack rates in many cases and MILES AND MILES AND MILES above in luxury, amenities and service.

 

[spiceycat]

I brought DVC in 1993 - why because I just took my family to POR - we needed two rooms and I paid for everything - cost around $6,000 - well in those days you could get DVC for around $10,000 to $12,000 - so I brought. We have used DVC most years, they have had their vacations and I have mind. It was and is wonderfully. (in those days even got free tickets until Jan,1 2000) - So it has worked great for me. Moved to Florida in 2015 because of WDW. So now I don't even need to stay in a hotel or DVC but I still do. and probably always will.

Disney has had it down times - remember Pop was stopped for years, then the finance stuff, really mad I did not get Disney stock in those times - it was really cheap.

so now that the economy is looking good for Disney - would understand they wanting to make a profit when they can. Remember Disney is a corporation that MUST make a profit for it stockholders. The more big corporations who own Disney stock the worst this will become.

for years DVC was a bargain compared to Marriott, Hilton, Hyatt timeshares - now it is expensive. I certainly can't afford it now. that say there is plenty of young folks who can.

 

[Farro]

I look into renting DVC points every trip. I must be doing something wrong with my calculations because the cost is really high and never seems close to a deal.

I'm wondering if 3 or more families are squeezing into these villas and splitting the cost.

On another note, i see the other side of these Disney trips that are so "affordable".

People actually withdrawing from their IRA's and taking out home equity loans not just once but a couple times to go on these Disney trips. Indeed, it is always for Disney trips.

I don't get it.

When I walk around Disney i'm always wondering how many people here can really afford to be here. It's sad.

For the first time, this past spring break, i decided to stay at a non Disney property since it would be me, DH, DD and DS would then join us mid week and with two teens and a non park lover husband i just didn't want us all to be on top of each other and Disney villas were cost prohibitive.

We stayed in a 3 bedroom condo at WBC that was more in the Disney bubble than most of the Disney hotels as far as location and per night cost less than POR. The condo was fabulous. We could get up and do whatever we wanted in the condo without disturbing sleeping family ~make coffee, make breakfast, take a shower, run a load of laundry, watch tv. The bedrooms are nicely spread out. Getting ready was also easy with a sink in and out of the bathroom areas.

I really felt this place was a steal, especially compared to POR where we stayed the first night of the trip and it didnt even have a proper closet. Sorry, I do not see the appeal of that place at all and if that's the best moderate hotel Disney offers than people are really getting ripped off.

I am booking WBC for next year since we are going again to watch DS play with his high school baseball team at ESPN the week before Easter.

Why on earth are you walking around Disney assuming people can't afford to be there and feeling sad for them? How do you know how people are paying for these trips? And more importantly...why do you care?

Just as we shouldn't assume people who stay at values or off-site are doing so because they can't afford to stay on-site or at a deluxe, we also shouldn't assume those staying on-site or at a deluxe are taking out loans or maxing their credit cards to pay for their trip!

 

[Shanti]

I miss the $49 value, $79 moderate and $129 deluxe (breakfast included) rates that we used to be able to get.

Those used to be WDW resort rates? $129/night at a deluxe including breakfast? Was this in the mid-1930's, when an apple cost 5 cents?

 

[mslhb]

For us a deluxe is totally worth it. I love having a balcony and we always spend a lot of time at our resort. We have always shopped discounts or rented points. To each their own.

 

[pjhootch]

Yes, I think the deluxe rack rates are insane. I don't begrudge anyone that chooses to pay that much. Whatever floats their boats, I guess. I like the deluxe resorts (some of them don't interest me much) and we had a great time at AKL a couple of years ago. Then again, we've had a great time at the moderates and off property too. I haven't stayed at the value resorts. I've booked them, but always change my mind at some point and move to a resort that has a hot tub. We rarely go when the weather is really hot enough to swim comfortably in the evening and my daughters and I like the hot tub after a long day in the park. I have a value resort booked right now, and maybe I will actually stay there this time!

Nothing wrong with complaining because we think the hotel costs are too high for deluxe - or any other category. So what? Complain away folks. Everyone has their own personal idea of value and their individual threshold of what they are willing to pay. "Willing" and "able" may be two different things for some of us. I know people and have some relatives that have definitely been willing to pay hotel prices that would make me run away screaming. A couple of the relatives ran up a credit card 17K and another emptied their savings account for a Disney trip. Since this is my family, I will go ahead and judge them as I please and look upon them with disdain. So yeah- if any of you were there and saw my relatives and felt sorry for them spending way beyond their means for things they really couldn't afford- you have my permission.

I also agree that with some effort and flexibility people can find ways to mitigate the expensive hotel rooms on property. The discounts help. It varies whether I am feeling like I am getting my money's worth or not. And it is such a subjective measurement that no one else would be able to tell.

Having four adults stay in a mod resort during free dining several years ago was a killer deal that we will never see again! Usually we are 5 adults so 5 in a mod room isn't possible for us without bloodshed and someone not actually fitting into the kiddie size bed.

 

[michelepa]

Why on earth are you walking around Disney assuming people can't afford to be there and feeling sad for them? How do you know how people are paying for these trips? And more importantly...why do you care?

Just as we shouldn't assume people who stay at values or off-site are doing so because they can't afford to stay on-site or at a deluxe, we also shouldn't assume those staying on-site or at a deluxe are taking out loans or maxing their credit cards to pay for their trip!

Um? Never said I was assuming anything. I deal with many people who are doing this. I actually deal with the aftermath and its really not funny.

 

[bladiator]

What is reasonable is totally subjective.

I think that subjective or not, that it is without a doubt a fact that if the price was lower in the past that it was more reasonable than it is now. Unless it was so low before that it was unreasonable, and now has just become expensive enough to be deemed reasonable. But I doubt it.

 

[fla4fun]

Those used to be WDW resort rates? $129/night at a deluxe including breakfast? Was this in the mid-1930's, when an apple cost 5 cents?

LOL! Not quite that long ago. There were some great deals after 9/11 though. I got a deluxe room at WL (the ones with the separate bedroom and living room) for $135 at that time. My first on property stay was in the mid 80's and I paid less than $100 per night at CR. The room rates didn't start getting super high until maybe 10-12 years ago (although there were some good sales 2008-2010, they weren't in the $100 deluxe range). It's like they just decided "Let's see what we can get away with - the sky's the limit!" and boom, the rates just exploded. I wouldn't wish another 9/11 or "great recession" on anyone, but I sure appreciated the cheaper room rates at that time.

 

[stink]

Compared to other 5 star hotels Disney's Deluxe rack rates are ridiculous. The only thing that gets them their rack rate is location, location, location. The only hotels that get you a Magic Kingdom View, are in walking distance to EPCOT or DHS are Disney Deluxe. IMHO this the hook they can use to charge sky high rack rates.

High rack rates at the Deluxe , is one of the reasons I bought into DVC, the other is to have a kitchen, not reliant on Disney food for entire vacation, and separate bedrooms.

One of Disney's best marketing strategies was to place unique themes & restaurants at their Deluxe hotels. Eg. Ohana's at Poly, Whispering Canyon, Boma, Chief Mickey's, Cape May Cafe, massive Gingerbread house at GF at Christmas time. These restaurants/themes serve as a draw to get the moderate, value & off site resort guests to the Deluxe resorts. (you never if ever, hear anyone saying well we are staying at the Grand Floridian yet going to the All Stars for a meal). So when these families go to dine at the deluxe they say oh wouldn't be nice to stay here. They find out they have to take out a second mortgage, sell their first born, cash in their IRAs etc to afford it. Most Americans can barely afford a moderate resort stay, theme park tickets, food, transportation to Orlando. Many add to their cc debt or sacrifice something else, to stay at even a moderate let along a deluxe.

That is my .02

 

[MeghanTy]

Um? Never said I was assuming anything. I deal with many people who are doing this. I actually deal with the aftermath and its really not funny.

Hey - that's their business. If someone literally takes money from their IRA to go to Disney - not my business or anyone else's why they do it OR what the aftermath is. They clearly made a choice and I wouldn't feel bad at all. We are all adults who have choices to make each day. Whether to pay bills or take a trip. Whether to go to work or not. If a grown adult makes the choice to go to Disney and take out home equity loans - again, their business. I wouldn't feel sorry and neither should you, regardless of what the aftermath is. If you work in banking, perhaps, and are having to take away someone's car or house because they chose to go to Disney? ::shrugs:: Choices.

Also, your idea of getting ripped off and how other people may feel may be completely different. Someone may pay $$$ to stay at POR and LOVE it. They may enjoy the ambiance, being closer to the parks and being immersed in Disney. Not having a "proper closet" may be secondary to them. Who knows?

I feel that waiting in line HOURS to see a Disney character is insane. It's a waste of precious time. BUT what others do with their time isn't my business and we all have different priorities and to each his own. People think I'm insane for flying first-class even on 2 hour flights. Maybe I see benefits and I do it. My business and my choices.

 

[Nancyg56]

Compared to other 5 star hotels Disney's Deluxe rack rates are ridiculous. The only thing that gets them their rack rate is location, location, location. The only hotels that get you a Magic Kingdom View, are in walking distance to EPCOT or DHS are Disney Deluxe. IMHO this the hook they can use to charge sky high rack rates.

High rack rates at the Deluxe , is one of the reasons I bought into DVC, the other is to have a kitchen, not reliant on Disney food for entire vacation, and separate bedrooms.

One of Disney's best marketing strategies was to place unique themes & restaurants at their Deluxe hotels. Eg. Ohana's at Poly, Whispering Canyon, Boma, Chief Mickey's, Cape May Cafe, massive Gingerbread house at GF at Christmas time. These restaurants/themes serve as a draw to get the moderate, value & off site resort guests to the Deluxe resorts. (you never if ever, hear anyone saying well we are staying at the Grand Floridian yet going to the All Stars for a meal). So when these families go to dine at the deluxe they say oh wouldn't be nice to stay here. They find out they have to take out a second mortgage, sell their first born, cash in their IRAs etc to afford it. Most Americans can barely afford a moderate resort stay, theme park tickets, food, transportation to Orlando. Many add to their cc debt or sacrifice something else, to stay at even a moderate let along a deluxe.

That is my .02

I have no idea how old you are but I must say that Disney has always been expensive. Cost is always a factor when making a vacation decision, but to suggest that "most" Americans can barely afford the trip is ludicrous. As a young mother I took my children to Disney, and I saved for it. WE wanted the Contemporary Resort and felt that the money we would use to stay there, along with tickets into the parks and food for the six od us would be money well spent. It was. But we saved for that trip. And every vacation after that we did as well.

In this life we all make choices and those choices signify the priorities we have at any given time. If something is important and there is only a finite amount of money, you make the decision to say No to other spending. You make compromises and you save. But this means discipline, and I wonder if you mistake a persons ability to afford a stay with that persons ability to plan ahead in order to afford it.

AS I have stated before my family does not always plan a deluxe stay, it is not alwyas important to us. I would chuckle though if someone looked at our resort choice and determined that we cashed in our savings, mortgaged our home, and deprived our family of necessities in order to gaze at the Castle.

 

[Nancyg56]

Hey - that's their business. If someone literally takes money from their IRA to go to Disney - not my business or anyone else's why they do it OR what the aftermath is. They clearly made a choice and I wouldn't feel bad at all. We are all adults who have choices to make each day. Whether to pay bills or take a trip. Whether to go to work or not. If a grown adult makes the choice to go to Disney and take out home equity loans - again, their business. I wouldn't feel sorry and neither should you, regardless of what the aftermath is. If you work in banking, perhaps, and are having to take away someone's car or house because they chose to go to Disney? ::shrugs:: Choices.

Also, your idea of getting ripped off and how other people may feel may be completely different. Someone may pay $$$ to stay at POR and LOVE it. They may enjoy the ambiance, being closer to the parks and being immersed in Disney. Not having a "proper closet" may be secondary to them. Who knows?

I feel that waiting in line HOURS to see a Disney character is insane. It's a waste of precious time. BUT what others do with their time isn't my business and we all have different priorities and to each his own. People think I'm insane for flying first-class even on 2 hour flights. Maybe I see benefits and I do it. My business and my choices.

Absolutely agree with you. It makes no difference to me what anyone else does. I have a coworker who cannot buy decent clothing for the kids, but she just purchased a used Lexus at $800 a month. For over 6 years. I stopped worrying about these kinds of decisions years ago. People do what they want to do.

 

[MeghanTy]

Absolutely agree with you. It makes no difference to me what anyone else does. I have a coworker who cannot buy decent clothing for the kids, but she just purchased a used Lexus at $800 a month. For over 6 years. I stopped worrying about these kinds of decisions years ago. People do what they want to do.

Right. And I've also learned that you don't ever know someone's circumstances, unless, of course, you are the one taking their home or car due to non-payment. I mind my business and keep it moving. Not my circus, not my monkeys.

 

[Nancyg56]

Right. And I've also learned that you don't ever know someone's circumstances, unless, of course, you are the one taking their home or car due to non-payment. I mind my business and keep it moving. Not my circus, not my monkeys.

I think that it all comes down to personal priorities. I have been told multiple times that we are "lucky" we can afford vacations to DIsney, or whereever else we choose to go. Lucky? Well to a point. We are blessed in that we have not been struck by tragedy, but the luck ends there. After that, it was on us. I can watch a Mom telling me she wants to take her kid to Disney but that she cannot afford it. Really? AS she is chain smoking. I have no idea how much cigarettes are but I bet that 2 packs a day times 7 days a week times 52 weeks adds up. WE don't smoke, keep our drinking to a minimum, seldom go out to dinner, stay out of fast food joints, and bring our lunch to work. I think that folks who tell me we are lucky are confusing self discipline with luck.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

I think that it all comes down to personal priorities. I have been told multiple times that we are "lucky" we can afford vacations to DIsney, or whereever else we choose to go. Lucky? Well to a point. We are blessed in that we have not been struck by tragedy, but the luck ends there. After that, it was on us. I can watch a Mom telling me she wants to take her kid to Disney but that she cannot afford it. Really? AS she is chain smoking. I have no idea how much cigarettes are but I bet that 2 packs a day times 7 days a week times 52 weeks adds up. WE don't smoke, keep our drinking to a minimum, seldom go out to dinner, stay out of fast food joints, and bring our lunch to work. I think that folks who tell me we are lucky are confusing self discipline with luck.

I do consider my children lucky that we get to go to WDW (and I don't mind when people tell THEM they are lucky to go on vacation) since I grew up very poor and never went on vacation. Keeping a roof over our head and food on the table was hard enough on my mother. Looking back I suppose she could've used one of her tax returns to take us but vacation is and was never a priority for her.

I do get irritated when people tell me I'm lucky because it's not luck....I work hard to do so. It's only ever family. My family will make statements but it's always the ones that spend their money on things I don't. Everyone has their thing. I do like my iPhone, pedicures, manicures, etc. but I don't buy a new TV/iPad/game console/VR goggles every time a new feature comes out. I have ZERO issues with how they spend their money but don't tell me I have some lucky streak.

 

[Babsy]

Those used to be WDW resort rates? $129/night at a deluxe including breakfast? Was this in the mid-1930's, when an apple cost 5 cents?

LOL!

That $129 including breakfast for all four of us (including character breakfasts!) was at the Beach Club and was in the late 1980's or early 1990's, IIRC. It was a great deal even back then! We ate in all the great character breakfast buffets and some breakfasts totalled nearly as much as the rate we had paid for the room! We liked 1900 Park Fare the most. they used to bring unlimited freshly hand squeezed orange juice to the table for you! the food was plentiful and amazing! I believe that was the time when we first tried the strawberry soup at the GF. It was fun!
Not surprisingly, I have never seen a deal like that since, but it sure was fun while it lasted!

The $49 value per night WAS quite a while ago now, too, but perhaps that was after 9/11? We stayed in value resorts (AS) for $49 or in the moderates for $79 for several years. I think that I still have some old brochures advertising the $79 for the Caribbean Beach. WDW was a lot different back then. I remember getting on the MK ferry at the TTC with my Mom once and we were the only ones on board. If you went in January, it was easy to find times when very few people were around.

 

[North of Mouse]

Hey - that's their business. If someone literally takes money from their IRA to go to Disney - not my business or anyone else's why they do it OR what the aftermath is. They clearly made a choice and I wouldn't feel bad at all. We are all adults who have choices to make each day. Whether to pay bills or take a trip. Whether to go to work or not. If a grown adult makes the choice to go to Disney and take out home equity loans - again, their business. I wouldn't feel sorry and neither should you, regardless of what the aftermath is. If you work in banking, perhaps, and are having to take away someone's car or house because they chose to go to Disney? ::shrugs:: Choices.

Oh, it's their business, right?? Are you that far out of touch with reality?? Have 'you' personally ever seen people make these kinds of choices (that you knew) and saw the fallout?
Lots of times it ends in bankruptcy, broken homes, children scarred, etc. We 'all' pay in these situations even disregarding the personal side of it, even if you would rather be indifferent to the issue if it hasn't 'touched' you personally.

Unfortunately, some people have no judgement when it comes to 'charging'. It's almost (in their minds) like free money. I 'know' and evidently the poster that you are referring too also knows!! It is 'very' sad!!
I realize, but this was introduced, and commented on by a few previous posters.