Delta is the worst

[Yellowjj]

I agree that there was no point in the original complaint, but the schedules issued by airlines are NOT dummy schedules! They are real schedules, which are occasionally revised.

By dummy schedules I mean, neither the equipment or frequency is fully firmed up. The schedules are meant as placeholders of sort. If people book and demand remains constant, then the plans stay firm. If demand is soft, they either reduce capacity or reduce frequency. I've found 2 months is the magic time for when they fully decide if they need to tinker with the route based on advance bookings or not.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

By dummy schedules I mean, neither the equipment or frequency is fully firmed up. The schedules are meant as placeholders of sort. If people book and demand remains constant, then the plans stay firm. If demand is soft, they either reduce capacity or reduce frequency. I've found 2 months is the magic time for when they fully decide if they need to tinker with the route based on advance bookings or not.

Ok I've got to ask..yes I experienced slight adjustments in my Delta flight times when I went in September but it was within 2 weeks of the starting flight but I almost always book Southwest.....how is it that their schedules, at least at my airport, do not change then if the schedules are just "placeholders"? I'm sorry but the way you are describing, which I do understand, isn't necessarily how it works for the vast majority of people.

 

[lost*in*cyberspace]

By dummy schedules I mean, neither the equipment or frequency is fully firmed up. The schedules are meant as placeholders of sort. If people book and demand remains constant, then the plans stay firm. If demand is soft, they either reduce capacity or reduce frequency. I've found 2 months is the magic time for when they fully decide if they need to tinker with the route based on advance bookings or not.

Not true.

 

[OKW Lover]

Not true.

It isn't clear to me what part of the quote you believe isn't true.

 

[Yellowjj]

Ok I've got to ask..yes I experienced slight adjustments in my Delta flight times when I went in September but it was within 2 weeks of the starting flight but I almost always book Southwest.....how is it that their schedules, at least at my airport, do not change then if the schedules are just "placeholders"? I'm sorry but the way you are describing, which I do understand, isn't necessarily how it works for the vast majority of people.

Let me break it down for you.

It's simple. Southwest unlike the legacy carriers operate one fleet type with two configurations. Your either going to be on a 143 or 175 seat 737. Everything is much more simplistic at Southwest because of the one fleet type. They also do more point to point routes than other carriers, so it's much harder to cancel something because it effects other routes in the system.

Southwest does not tinker with schedules as often as the legacy carriers but they do, do it time to time. I've had Southwest cancel a flight and reroute me, so it does happen. They've just canceled SNA-MEX so those people had to rebooked through Houston. It's rarer than the legacy carriers, but it happens at pretty much all airlines.

Delta, American & United operate a much more diverse fleet that includes regional carriers, something Southwest does not bother with. This is why you will experience the most changes on them. One can argue that it works in their favor as their able to adjust capacity to demand better. I've been on a Southwest flight with 60 people before.

Not true.

What isn't true? I'm curious, how often do you fly the legacy carriers?

 

[MillauFr]

I have never had Alaska change our flight time and we sometimes book 300+ days in advance.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Let me break it down for you.

It's simple. Southwest unlike the legacy carriers operate one fleet type with two configurations. Your either going to be on a 143 or 175 seat 737. Everything is much more simplistic at Southwest because of the one fleet type. They also do more point to point routes than other carriers, so it's much harder to cancel something because it effects other routes in the system.

Southwest does not tinker with schedules as often as the legacy carriers but they do, do it time to time. I've had Southwest cancel a flight and reroute me, so it does happen. They've just canceled SNA-MEX so those people had to rebooked through Houston. It's rarer than the legacy carriers, but it happens at pretty much all airlines.

Delta, American & United operate a much more diverse fleet that includes regional carriers, something Southwest does not bother with. This is why you will experience the most changes on them. One can argue that it works in their favor as their able to adjust capacity to demand better. I've been on a Southwest flight with 60 people before.

1) I understood what you were talking about however your first comment regarding your explainations regarding dummy schedules did not specify that some carriers operate in the way you were describing. It sounds much more like a general comment which is why I brought up SWA.
2) I've been on SWA with less than 30 people. My husband has been on flights in the last 6 months with SWA with less than 15 people. Now those aren't common usually the lowest I see is around the 60 mark and the norm for me is basically or actually full flights.
3) I know it happens that airlines adjust their schedules or even cancel flights but your explaining of a flight time being a placeholder is more or less what people will not agree with. You're going to find many people who haven't had their flight times changed so describing it as a placeholder isn't going to ring true to them.
4) My Delta flights that I mentioned that were changed less than 2 weeks before our flights to Hawaii only changed by 10 min max. They weren't changed due to demand or whatnot. At least to my husband and I the change seemed to be more or less looking at flight paths in regards to weather, other planes, wind factors, etc. I don't think making a flight leave at 3:13 pm (a fairly precise time) versus 3:10pm is due to customer demand.

ETA: I can't speak for all times but as far as having few people on board and still keeping the flight it can also depend on the end destination of the plane. If the plane has to go to to X no matter what they aren't going to cancel the flight.

 

[Yellowjj]

I have never had Alaska change our flight time and we sometimes book 300+ days in advance.

That's your experience. Other's have different experiences. Usually people who fly often.

1) I understood what you were talking about however your first comment regarding your explainations regarding dummy schedules did not specify that some carriers operate in the way you were describing. It sounds much more like a general comment which is why I brought up SWA.

All of them make schedule adjustments. Every single one of them. You may never have been personally affected but it does happen. Less so on the smaller airlines with one fleet type (Southwest, Alaska) than the bigger airlines with multiple types. The point was it happens with all, regardless of your personal experience. Southwest just canceled a route only a month out.

3) I know it happens that airlines adjust their schedules or even cancel flights but your explaining of a flight time being a placeholder is more or less what people will not agree with. You're going to find many people who haven't had their flight times changed so describing it as a placeholder isn't going to ring true to them.

That's what they are until the airline decides "ok were going to fly this as is". This board isn't a indication on what is what since most people only go to Disney once/twice a year. The general public wont be posting here that their flight changed. They would have called the airline and got it taken care of instead of coming to a random message board to go on a rant about airlines.

4) My Delta flights that I mentioned that were changed less than 2 weeks before our flights to Hawaii only changed by 10 min max. They weren't changed due to demand or whatnot. At least to my husband and I the change seemed to be more or less looking at flight paths in regards to weather, other planes, wind factors, etc. I don't think making a flight leave at 3:13 pm (a fairly precise time) versus 3:10pm is due to customer demand.

Were you leaving from LAX or SEA? Otherwise longhaul flights are rarely changed that close in. My delta flight was just changed today for a departure 16 days out by 20 mins. There are other factors in play. You think Delta doesn't pad schedules to account for weather and/or ground delays already?

Most of the minor changes has to do with the flight crew. That 3 minutes extra they gave you could be the difference from having a legal crew versus having someone who per FAA regulations qualified to work that flight. My flight time was changed 20 minutes later and has nothing to do with wind or arrival paths into JFK, but more than likely extra time required by the crew assigned. My arrival time only changed by 2 minutes and the flight is still padded with extra time.

ETA: I can't speak for all times but as far as having few people on board and still keeping the flight it can also depend on the end destination of the plane. If the plane has to go to to X no matter what they aren't going to cancel the flight.

This is mostly a Southwest thing since most other airlines operate a turn back to a hub. Only if the plane was scheduled for to visit a place for maintenance or need to be re positioned out of a maintenance base, would you see them need to get the plane to a particular place no matter what. Southwest point to point operations don't really allow that. They can have one full leg Chicago to Hartford and then a empty leg Hartford to Baltimore, but they have no choice to fly it as they need the plane in Baltimore for the next leg.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

That's your experience. Other's have different experiences. Usually people who fly often.

I think we're just going to need to agree to disagree here and move on. I don't agree with your description of placeholder and your other comments are assuming a lot of things about my experience and others and as I was typing out my response it just seemed better to not say them so lets just agree to disagree and move on.

 

[rookie2]

I wanted to report back w/ a positive post. Delta changed my flight by 30 min later w/ an arrival time at 11:30pm I called and they were very accommodating and changed my flight w/out charge. I'm thrilled because I wanted an earlier flight but because of the price difference decided on the last flight out

 

[AngiTN]

I wanted to report back w/ a positive post. Delta changed my flight by 30 min later w/ an arrival time at 11:30pm I called and they were very accommodating and changed my flight w/out charge. I'm thrilled because I wanted an earlier flight but because of the price difference decided on the last flight out

That's what happened with us too. I had always wanted the earlier flight but it was more money so I booked the cheaper one with the less than ideal time. Then they changed something and it opened up the option for us to change without cost and I was able to change to the flight I wanted originally, without any added cost. So for us, I was glad they made an adjustment

 

[lost*in*cyberspace]

.....
What isn't true? I'm curious, how often do you fly the legacy carriers?

I have zero interest in debating this, but once again, it's not true that when legacy carriers release their schedules they are just "placeholders." It's the schedule, period. Sometimes adjustments are made, but the schedule is what they are planning to fly.

I fly legacy carriers just a "bit." I'm a 1K on United Airlines, which means flying 100,000 miles a year on UA alone.

 

[Yellowjj]

I have zero interest in debating this, but once again, it's not true that when legacy carriers release their schedules they are just "placeholders." It's the schedule, period. Sometimes adjustments are made, but the schedule is what they are planning to fly.

That's your opinion. No debate needed. I have zero interest in the topic at this point.

 

[JohnneeO]

I have zero interest in debating this, but once again, it's not true that when legacy carriers release their schedules they are just "placeholders." It's the schedule, period. Sometimes adjustments are made, but the schedule is what they are planning to fly

IME with United (and previously Continental), the aircraft type sometimes serves as a placeholder. Looking at a theoretical Newark - Orlando R/T from 9/2 - 9/9 2017, the UA site lists almost all 737-800's both ways, except for one A320. So the 737-800 is a placeholder, and much closer to the actual flight dates, UA will schedule in specific aircraft for each flight; some flights may operate with a 737-800, while others may change to 737-900, A320 or A321 or even 757-200 of 757-300 if the demand is high enough, and the plane is available.

That is why on airlines like UA, it is always a good idea to review seat assignments regularly, as a change to a different aircraft can open up seats that were not previously available, or take away preeviously selected seats.