Debt Dumpers - 2019

[crazycatstacy]

Are you sure it wasn't the renewal fee for Amazon prime? Mine came in divided into 2 separate charges and I almost called fraud alert on it until I realized what it was.

My prime renews in August or September and I have my amazon card linked to it not Disney so I don’t think that was it

 

[jen7233]

Anyway, just wanted to vent. I'll be fine, but it's going to be a challenge, especially now that our boys are nearing puberty and it's not exactly the best time for dad to be gone.

I understand, I actually think it's a little harder as the kids get older, for me that's how I feel though I know it depends on each kid. My youngest had a very difficult time our last move missing friends and his last school. Well, I know you're not talking of moving but I mean I understand the deploying and the military adjustments with kids.

So I'm working on a 'no buy' January and things are going well so far...mind you, it's only day 8 and I don't generally find it difficult to cut down on unnecessary spending in January after the big blowout over the holiday season . I am hoping to start off this year by really cutting back on my spending but I also don't think that it is realistic to think that I am going to be able to continue that trend (i.e. no buy) month after month. I was curious as to what you guys do to address spending 'wants' as opposed to 'needs'. Do you set a monthly allowance for yourself that you can spend on anything you like? Do you set aside money in your budget for different categories of 'wants' and then purchase items when the money has been saved up?

I hadn't really thought about it in that way as a want, but I do have a list of budgeted items like restaurants, clothing, and Walmart/misc. That's where the Target store usually falls, miscellaneous. And, that's when I'm following the detailed plan but really as long as I have set aside bills and savings, I don't follow it too strictly but I try to use some rationalization in there.

 

[DLgal]

I understand, I actually think it's a little harder as the kids get older, for me that's how I feel though I know it depends on each kid. My youngest had a very difficult time our last move missing friends and his last school. Well, I know you're not talking of moving but I mean I understand the deploying and the military adjustments with kids.

Thankfully this isn't a deployment. He will just be stationed overseas. We cannot go with him because of our sons special medical and educational needs, so he will only have to go for 1 year vs 2-3. At least he can come home and visit and we can talk to him every day. That's a lot better than a deployment! My oldest son had such a hard time both times we had to move cross country, and our last move was back "home" 3 years ago and we had already decided we wouldn't move our kids again, so we knew this was a possibility (being separated), but it still stinks.

 

[jen7233]

Thankfully this isn't a deployment. He will just be stationed overseas. We cannot go with him because of our sons special medical and educational needs, so he will only have to go for 1 year vs 2-3. At least he can come home and visit and we can talk to him every day. That's a lot better than a deployment! My oldest son had such a hard time both times we had to move cross country, and our last move was back "home" 3 years ago and we had already decided we wouldn't move our kids again, so we knew this was a possibility (being separated), but it still stinks.

Either way, still it's hard whether deployment or unaccompanied tour hard to have the other half away. That time difference, too!

 

[Shughart]

Thank you! It is broken and a pretty significant break. The doc at urgent care thinks it may need a pin to be set. If I knew that, we probably would have gone to the ER because now we can’t see an orthopedic surgeon until tomorrow. If we had gone through ER, they probably would have paged the on-call orthopedic surgeon and we could have dealt with it in one fell swoop. My concern is he broke this same arm in the same spot in June and spent 11 weeks in cast. At five, that area should have healed well, but it looks (according to the urgent care doc) it was quite weak. Lots of ice, elevation and ibuprofen today!

And we do have a high deductible- $5k. We had scaled back our contributions from the max allowed to slightly less to focus on paying off our van. We still have a decent chunk on our HSA, but it looks like we will bump it back up since it’s not at $5k. Luckily, payment plans are always an option!

Oh no, this is AWFUL news. I am so sorry. I hope you're able to get into an orthopedic surgeon soon and get the surgery done. I hope that with pins and another cast, it can heal and gain stability again. Getting hurt as a kid is no fun. Now I know how much it sucks now as a parent too

Yes, this is exactly what we do. Since early 2017 DH and I have each gotten $75/ mo of "no questions asked" money. In other words, it is 100% our money and we can't comment on what the other person does with theirs. It's never happened yet, but the only time we'd not get it is in a dire emergency. This has helped us stave off so much of what I call "frantic" spending. Before having this, it sometimes felt like I had to "race" DH to the spending money every month. So if i wanted something I'd hurry up and buy it because who knew when I'd have the money to again? Now, I know exactly when I will: next budget cycle. it's really helped teach me about saving, too. We did a Disney cruise in Sept and starting in March i saved all or part of my $75 a month for the trip. I also forwent any major birthday or Christmas gifts that year and instead asked for Disney gift cards. Come the cruise, I had $250 in gift cards and almost $400 in cash to take that was 100% mine. I bought a Dooney bag and a spirit jersey and several other things and didn't bat an eye because I'd saved it all year. If we'd still had all of our money lumped together in a general spending category I couldn't have gotten even a third of what I got because everything would have felt like "ours" and I would have had to justify every purchase to DH.

the whole thing started because DH and I had an argument about computer parts. He's into building his own computer and is always wanting to update this part or that. To him, it's a need: he simply can't fathom having a computer that isn't running optimally, and that's totally understandable: PC gaming is one of his main hobbies and it sucks for him to spend $60 on a game and then not have it look as well as it could. But I, on the other hand, think a computer should be fixed/ upgraded only when it's not working anymore or not able to run current programs. If it can play YouTube/ netflix/hulu, access internet browsing, and has a word processor I'm happy. I didn't think we needed more RAM because the computer did everything I needed it to do. On the other hand, DH probably wouldn't have seen the point in paying $65 for the new in the Box steelbook of Oswald the Lucky Rabbit shorts that arrived in the mail yesterday, and I was more than happy to spend almost all of my month's allowance getting it and cried with joy when I opened it. Each of us having our own money has taught us a lot about saving, and I'm a lot more careful with purchases knowing I have a finite amount that's "mine". There's a lot of things I realized I didn't actually want once I had to spend "my" money on them.

Excuse me, is his name Nick? Are we married to the same person? Because you described my husband. I feel like we need to do this too. Give ourselves an allowance budget. I have been kind of hard on us both in an effort to get our cards paid off in time to pay for our vacation without having to use the CCs again for the trip

 

[barkley]

That includes the awesome tissue sale at Target or buying a case of toilet paper. Will I use 240 million rolls of TP this month? No, but the price was good enough and one can never have enough. Honestly, you'll thank yourself for the TP in a zombie apocalypse.

also when the snow is flying and it's transitioning to freezing rain (like it is here right now). don't worry about zombies though, we have plenty around us and they pay us no notice (z nation films around us).

i get you-i have priced out tp/paper towels/tissues over and over-i can't get them for a better deal than when target has their sales where you get gift cards for buying x number. i just save the gift cards and use them the next time the same sale is on and get more gift cards/save more money.

Give ourselves an allowance budget

it really helps. my dh is into comic books and they add up fast so it's just easier if we both have a small 'allowance' we can buy whatever we want with. for me it's dvd's/blu rays b/c w/the exception of the $6 bargain day at the movies it costs less for me to buy a movie than for the 2 (or 3 depending on if ds comes w/us) of us to go when we figure in just gas/parking). he gets his comics, i get his movies (and often his made from comic book movies).

 

[Eureka]

For quite a few years now, Dh has had me get him $40 cash back every week when I grocery shop. When I was laid off we temporarily stopped it until I was working again. He uses it for various things, sometimes I don’t even know what. I think he saved up and used it for my holiday gifts bc I didn’t see any charges on the debit card or the credit cards. I don’t often get myself cash back/allowance, but I don’t tend to buy myself things very often. My discretionary spending is more along the lines of the good deal on toilet paper someone mentioned above. Or holiday tissue paper and gift tag clearance, etc. For example, today I ordered myself a new lanyard for my work key fob that’s more like a necklace. $5.99 at Amazon after a $5 gift card. But little things like that I don’t tend to budget for or keep track of. There was a time when we had to do that, but thankfully right now we do not.

 

[PhoenixStrength]

There is a free app: MyFitnessPal. Both my coworker and DH used it last year and were both successful at cutting back on eating out AND losing weight.

We are using MyFitnessPal already! We've used it in the past with great success, we just don't do so well once we hit our goal, we tend to go back to old habits. We intentionally signed up for a gym membership with a 1 year commitment just to force ourselves to keep it up even after the 6 month DietBet ends.

 

[potterfanatic]

Thanks for doing this again! I get so excited for Debt Dumpers, but then I have been failing miserably as the year goes on, so I'm hoping this is the year I stick to it. The good news is, we're starting off 2019 with some specific goals in mind and a raise! In April of 2019 I plan to have my car paid off making us a no-car payment home. I also plan to make all grocery purchases on my debit card, budgeting only what I have made from my freelance work. I have put my recurring payments on my Disney card that has been paid in full for the last several months, and I am am going to be slowly working down my credit card debt with the remainder of my husband's paycheck.

 

[TashK]

Welcome! Wow your commute with school and farm is far, but I know one has to do what they need to when it comes to schooling, and sounds good there is only the mortgage. I agree with a car fund, you just never know when it will give up or need repairs, but you can guarantee that at some point, it will. What is a super contribution 15%, is that similar to US IRA or a 401k? Exciting you're in Australia, I'm fascinated with Australia, it's always has been on my bucket list of the countries I'd like to visit!


Sorry, yes. I changed some of my details to US measurements e.g weight loss kilos to pounds but I wasn’t sure about retirement savings, I think 401K sounds similar. For those that are employed, your employer pays 9.5% on top of gross wages in to your retirement fund (Superannuation). Anything that you co-contribute is tax deductible up to a threshhold.

For those of us self employed it is fully tax deductible .

Ooh, whereabouts are you? I'm in Newcastle NSW.

Wollombi-Lower Hunter. The boys are at HVGS so we are super close. I have clients in Newcastle so I’m in the city twice a week.

 

[TashK]

Being that it is summer here, I'm taking most of January off and just doings bits and pieces of work from my laptop. Our family has a holiday unit on the coast so the boys and I spend most of our holidays here. DH business is busy in summer so he only heads over on weekends. Our spending seems less in holiday time, I guess it's mostly petrol as I do such long commutes during my work year.
I have started back at the gym after having 6 months off with back injury, so I spent $19 not budgeted at Kmart on bluetooth headphones. Hopefully they will not break but I would not spend big $$ on Beats etc. Also $9 on some boardshorts for DS1 as he ripped a hole in the bum of his old pair.

Otherwise we are chugging along. The end of Jan I need my brakes done & 2 new tyres so I'm not looking forward to that but we have budgeted for it knowing that Jan is 1 of 2 months where we do not have school fees.
The Govt also pays us an allowance to drive our kids to school as there are no school buses in our rural area. This will end this year for DS2 as he is now coming into town to go to school but previously is was $4000 a term, so $8000 a year! It is calculated per km.

I cannot remember if I mentioned in my first post but 1 of my goals is to replace funds into our investment fund. I had to sell a heap of shares last year to pay the excess and out of pocket expenses on medical for myself and the boys. i really felt like such a failure selling them as I had worked so hard snowballing our debt and then buying the shares, to then having to sell them. Anyways it's all good and 2019 will be my year to fix that little blip.
That is also the reason ti establish my emergency fund as selling shares just makes me have to spend more time on my tax returns and well who has time for that?

It feels good to get started on my goals as 2018 was chaotic for me healthwise and I have my fingers crossed that 2019 is completely different. On that note I have started a daily "grateful diary" to help turn my mindset away from being so focussed on what is going wrong.

 

[OhMari]

I had to think about some goals.
1. Our health insurance gave us an online support group to join to help us loose weight. I have been on this journey and changed a lot of bad habits, but I feel support really does motivate you. I want to loose 20 lbs.

2. I have been working hard to pay off my 2017 Volkswagon. I owe $6500 and hopefully have it paid off by June.

3. I already pay an extra $800 on our mortgage and when our Volkswagonwagon is paid off I will roll that money to our payment, plus any other increases. My goal is to pay off $25,000 towards the mortgage this year.


4. I get a new boss in June and I hope things go well. 6 years ago, we got a new boss and 3 people were let go because of salary cuts, I pray that does not happen again.

5. Start investing more into retirement funds. My dh has a 401K and I have a Pension but we know we need to put more money away.

6. I am going to go on another year of no clothes buy. I have plenty of clothes and no big events coming up. But if I loose weight, I will wait till 2020.

7. I have a vacation fund-always have, just have not booked or decided what we want to do. Our children all got married within 18 months of each other and now the grandchildren are coming fast and furious. Someone is always asking us to help out and we are using vacation days.

 

[LilSweetPeaPhoto]

Once again the question of WWYD?

I'm a newly single mom. I inherited (now) $8500 in CC debt I have on a zero interest card. That will expire this month, but I have plans to move it to a new 0% card. I have about $20k in the bank. I also just got about $3500 from my granny (she died). The debate is, do I keep my savings (since I have no "partner safety net...and a $300k mortgage), and keep rolling that 0% offer and paying that slowly (I put $100 towards it a mo). Or do I just get the debt out from under me and pay it all off. I feel "safer" personally with the $23k in the bank, knowing that if something happened with my job I can at least still pay my mortgage and what not for awhile. I feel like as long as my CC debt is on a zero card, I should hang onto my funds. Of course if I can't get the new 0% card, I have other cards that offer 0% but there's the transfer fee charged. Then it might be worth paying off the debt. All other CCs I use (for points/miles) I pay off every statement. So I'm not currently accruing any more new debt. And I think I have the days of racking up new debt under control.

I know I'm going to need a new water heater sooner than later, and maybe a new fridge. But otherwise almost everything in the house is newer and shouldn't have issues with it (furnace, a/c, dishwasher, bathrooms, floors, carpet, etc).

 

[Shughart]

Once again the question of WWYD?

I'm a newly single mom. I inherited (now) $8500 in CC debt I have on a zero interest card. That will expire this month, but I have plans to move it to a new 0% card. I have about $20k in the bank. I also just got about $3500 from my granny (she died). The debate is, do I keep my savings (since I have no "partner safety net...and a $300k mortgage), and keep rolling that 0% offer and paying that slowly (I put $100 towards it a mo). Or do I just get the debt out from under me and pay it all off. I feel "safer" personally with the $23k in the bank, knowing that if something happened with my job I can at least still pay my mortgage and what not for awhile. I feel like as long as my CC debt is on a zero card, I should hang onto my funds. Of course if I can't get the new 0% card, I have other cards that offer 0% but there's the transfer fee charged. Then it might be worth paying off the debt. All other CCs I use (for points/miles) I pay off every statement. So I'm not currently accruing any more new debt. And I think I have the days of racking up new debt under control.

I know I'm going to need a new water heater sooner than later, and maybe a new fridge. But otherwise almost everything in the house is newer and shouldn't have issues with it (furnace, a/c, dishwasher, bathrooms, floors, carpet, etc).

I would personally pay it off. I would not want it hanging it over me. You have more than enough to pay it off and then still have 15k in the bank. Then you can build it back up and use your monthly payment and put it in savings. That way in case anything DOES happen with your job, you still have money in the bank, and you don't have the added stress of credit card debt. If you absolutely cannot find footing before your 15K runs out in that event you do have the card in case you need extreme back up. But that's me slapping your scenario roughly over my own, so obviously ymmv.

 

[DLgal]

I would personally pay it off. I would not want it hanging it over me. You have more than enough to pay it off and then still have 15k in the bank. Then you can build it back up and use your monthly payment and put it in savings. That way in case anything DOES happen with your job, you still have money in the bank, and you don't have the added stress of credit card debt. If you absolutely cannot find footing before your 15K runs out in that event you do have the card in case you need extreme back up. But that's me slapping your scenario roughly over my own, so obviously ymmv.

I agree. Pay off the debt and start paying yourself back into the savings account instead. At only $100/month, that debt will take 7 years to pay off and there is zero chance you will be able to keep it at 0% that long or avoid balance transfer fees. Most balance transfer offers, even on brand new cards, charge a fee and it's limited to 18 months, usually, of 0%. You are going to have to transfer that balance 3 times, at least, before you pay it off. Just be done with it. Worst case, you come up to an emergency and you use a credit card, then you can balance transfer that and pay it down over time.

I'd also move that $20k to an online savings account that will pay you at least 2% interest on it, if it's not already in one.

 

[MamaBelleRN]

So I'm working on a 'no buy' January and things are going well so far...mind you, it's only day 8 and I don't generally find it difficult to cut down on unnecessary spending in January after the big blowout over the holiday season . I am hoping to start off this year by really cutting back on my spending but I also don't think that it is realistic to think that I am going to be able to continue that trend (i.e. no buy) month after month. I was curious as to what you guys do to address spending 'wants' as opposed to 'needs'. Do you set a monthly allowance for yourself that you can spend on anything you like? Do you set aside money in your budget for different categories of 'wants' and then purchase items when the money has been saved up? It will obviously depend on the type of 'wants' and realistically, I'm probably looking at smaller day-to-day purchases like fast food, Target-type items for the house that really aren't needed, etc. I know there are probably other threads about this but I was hoping to get some insight from the folks who linger here. Thanks in advance for any input!!

I am always intrigued by attempting a no spend month, but end up in the same camp as @imbatman . And TP during a zombie apocalypse would be a definite must! With five kids, it seems like something often comes up and I’d feel discouraged if I ‘fail’. I might just try for a no spend week sometime and go from there!

Talked to a DJ service for the wedding. They also offer photography, video, and lighting packages so I thought I'd see what the costs were. Turns out I can save $800 by booking their package deal with DJ and Photographer instead of doing them through 2 separate businesses. I looked at the gallery and really like the pictures. Now I just need to get my taxes back (looking at you, government) so I can book them!

That’s awesome! So exciting to be gearing up for the big day! Haha and yes hopefully the government shutdown ends soon!

So, we just got some news that really stinks. DH is being sent overseas for a year this summer on unaccompanied orders. I have no idea how this is going to affect our finances, although since we can't go with him, he should get some additional allowances to help offset his living expenses (as well as get to live in military barracks). This was our worst case scenario, so ugh! He was trying to extend his time out here one more year so he can retire next year, but his request got denied. Sometimes I really hate our military life. I can't wait until he retires, because of this kind of nonsense. Tell me how it is easier/more efficient to separate a family than just keep him in the same job for a third year?

Anyway, just wanted to vent. I'll be fine, but it's going to be a challenge, especially now that our boys are nearing puberty and it's not exactly the best time for dad to be gone.

I'm already spinning when I try to figure out how we can maintain the savings and low spending while having to deal with all the unknown expenses that may come up. He doesn't know where he is going yet, but signs point strongly to Japan, and he has already talked about visiting Tokyo on his weekends...ugh...he is gonna want to buy so much stuff. I already told him Tokyo Disney is OFF LIMITS until I can fly out and join him, which will be more $$$, but how can I pass that up?

Anyway, our January is a bust, savings wise. We spent high in December and after paying those CC bills in full, there's nothing leftover. We might get to put aside $500 in February, and I am eyeing March as our first month where we can put back significant savings (goal is $3000/month for March onwards). We went to Vegas in December for DHs birthday and had a great time over 2 days. We spent about $600 out of pocket, mostly on some nice meals, a show, and a ring that DH bought me. We had our $300 Chase Sapphire Reserve travel credit take care of the majority of the hotel and some Uber rides, and we drove and only needed a tank and a half of gas total (DHs civic gets like 43mpg hwy). We took $500 in cash with us to gamble and we came back with $650, so score there! I've been using that cash instead of credit cards for the majority of our purchases since we came back.

My kids need to see the eye doctor and one will likely need new glasses, so I need to keep that in mind and try and fit it into our monthly spending. I have already told DH we are cracking down hard core on "wants" starting now. I just had to visit urgent care over the weekend and my son had to go to his pediatrician yesterday, so we will be out our deductibles once those bills arrive. I paid $60 of my $150 deductible upfront at the urgent care and they will bill me the rest. Our family deductible is $300/year, which I am super fortunate to have, so I'm not complaining, but with another specialist visit today for my other son, plus allergy shots weekly, we are definitely going to hit that deductible this month.

While I have no personal experience with military life, I very much appreciate all the sacrifices made by service men and women and their families. And ugh they won’t just let him stay in his job for one more year . It seems like they could grant that request given all his years of service. I know the military doesn’t work that way, but I wish it would!

@dayvewc I am so sorry about you health issues and medical bills. It was job loss and tens of thousands of dollars of medical bills over a couple of years that sent us from financial stability to near ruin. We were in the same exact spot as you- we made too much to qualify for any government or hospital assistance programs and not enough to get any loans to help cover costs. It’s a terrible place to be and a shame that in a country as developed as ours, necessary medical care can be so devastating to financial and emotional well being. Lots of prayers and I hope 2019 is a better one for you.

We’re on our way to the orthopedic now. Poor guy was in a good deal of pain last night despite being fully medicated, so I’m glad we can start on the road to healing. We’ll see what he says!

 

[DLgal]

While I have no personal experience with military life, I very much appreciate all the sacrifices made by service men and women and their families. And ugh they won’t just let him stay in his job for one more year . It seems like they could grant that request given all his years of service. I know the military doesn’t work that way, but I wish they would.

Thanks. I appreciate that. It really is a head scratcher. He is eligible to retire next year, so what do they do? Give him 3 year orders overseas. I mean, our situation will knock that down to 1 year due to needing to be separated (family hardship), but imagine we were going to go with him? He doesn't want to do 3 more years! He is already pushing 20 years in and wants to be DONE! And they know this, and still screw him over. Our military is such a poorly run and inefficient bureaucracy, I swear. No disrespect to all the men and women who serve, but the government really doesn't care about its service members or their families. There is no compassion for personal situations and individual needs. I am so over it.

Okay, rant over. Back to debt dumping. I need to go to Costco for a "few things." I need to put my blinders on so I don't get hooked by anything I don't actually need.

 

[johnaalexis]

Jumping on the train!

My Financial Goals:

• Pay off about $1,450 in CC Debt that I accumulated over Christmas, and last Fall when I was student teaching and working A LOT LESS
• Save at least $1,000 towards Emergency fund

My Personal Goals:

• Walk at least 3 miles a week
• Eat better / smaller portions
• Loose 20lb before we travel to WDW in July

Look forward to sharing my triumphs with you guys! It can be a great help to have support from everyone! Have a great year and I hope everyone reaches their goals!!!!

 

[imbatman]

I might just try for a no spend week sometime and go from there!

Oooooh! There's something I can do! Try a week here and there. I did it out of necessity last year (upon finding out the debt), so I know it can be done. I have less meat in the freezer now, so I think I'll wait until I purchase a few staples until I try it. Thanks for the idea, @MamaBelleRN ! (Also, I keep extra TP on hand. The "what-if" of that situation is horrifying)

 

[jen7233]

Once again the question of WWYD?

I'm a newly single mom. I inherited (now) $8500 in CC debt I have on a zero interest card. That will expire this month, but I have plans to move it to a new 0% card. I have about $20k in the bank. I also just got about $3500 from my granny (she died). The debate is, do I keep my savings (since I have no "partner safety net...and a $300k mortgage), and keep rolling that 0% offer and paying that slowly (I put $100 towards it a mo). Or do I just get the debt out from under me and pay it all off. I feel "safer" personally with the $23k in the bank, knowing that if something happened with my job I can at least still pay my mortgage and what not for awhile. I feel like as long as my CC debt is on a zero card, I should hang onto my funds. Of course if I can't get the new 0% card, I have other cards that offer 0% but there's the transfer fee charged. Then it might be worth paying off the debt. All other CCs I use (for points/miles) I pay off every statement. So I'm not currently accruing any more new debt. And I think I have the days of racking up new debt under control.

Is the job security certain? How much will a water heater and installation run you? None need to be answered, just things that I might ask myself were I debating the same situation.

You could pay the CC debt off and then put in more back into savings to earmark a sinking fund for those household items. There are some cool refrigerators out there now, I'd say in the past one could say a new fridge may run you a few hundred, but now there are some that have TVs, electric whiteboards, and make coffee, unbelievable! Have you seen these things?! I didn't even know the coffee one was out there until I saw a posted picture. I miss our old fridge that simply had a water dispenser and ice maker that we sold with our home! Have been renting since, so we have the fridges that come with house, not anything good. As far as what would I do, that's a tough one, I'd be inclined to pay it off with savings if I had the amount you have, however, I'd really have to know I had nothing else coming up I'm going to need to possibly dip into savings for AND if I had absolute job security etc.

Jumping on the train!

My Financial Goals:

• Pay off about $1,450 in CC Debt that I accumulated over Christmas, and last Fall when I was student teaching and working A LOT LESS
• Save at least $1,000 towards Emergency fund

My Personal Goals:

• Walk at least 3 miles a week
• Eat better / smaller portions
• Loose 20lb before we travel to WDW in July

Welcome! Great achievable goals. WDW in July, fun! And hot, ocassionally some random warm rain afternoons! We've done July and August, do rope drop and stay until noon or so, head back to hotel, come back at 6.