DEBATE: Disney vs. Vegas, etc.

mmapwright

Earning My Ears
Joined
Aug 31, 2000
Messages
28
QUOTE]And it’s been long rumored that a certain rodent-branded entertainment company even funds and controls “fan” websites and hires public relation firms to pose as posters on Internet discussion boards so they can manipulate public opinion. [/QUOTE]

Who's to say that a paid mole has to be one that always trumpets the company's virtues? Couldn't you have one that bashes the things the company does just to guage the response? Before you can change someone's opinion you have to know how strong it is.
 
mmapwrigt...Where have you been up until now?

Interesting observation, eh folks?
:cool: :cool: :bounce: :cool: :cool:
 
Why pay someone to point out where Disney is failing to meet its customer's expectations when there are so many people willing to speak up for themselves?

And the people don't even need the Internet for that. Look at the attendance figures. Or does Disney pay people to stay away from the parks too?
 
"Why pay someone to point out where Disney is
failing to meet its customer's expectations when
there are so many people willing to speak up for
themselves?"

There are far more "pumpers" than "dumpers" on this board and others like it. Just wander onto any other page on this site and read the comments. Why would you need to pay someone to support a Disney admiration society?

"And the people don't even need the Internet for that.
Look at the attendance figures. Or does Disney pay
people to stay away from the parks too?"

Maybe I am missing something. I am not a Wall Street or (Hollywood) insider but haven't we been in some sort of recession? Usually the first thing to go during tough times is discretionary spending. Trips to Disney World can hardly be described as necessities even for car #1 riders. Please enlighten me on the major American travel destinations that are experiencing increased attendance. While you are at it tell me the major entertainment conglomerates that are setting the world on fire with their balance sheets. GE? AOL Time? Viacom? Vivendi?
 

Well actually…

Las Vegas seems to be doing very nicely despite last year’s recession. New York is understandably still off but recovering. Even Orlando as a whole is now saying they are only off 3% from the 2000 levels – much better than Disney’s alleged 10-20% downturn.

And even more interesting is that in Anaheim, Disneyland is meeting or exceeding its projected attendance. In fact this Holiday season is seeing much larger crowds. However, California Adventure just a hundred yards from Disneyland’s gate, is still well off and falling.

I wonder if it might have something to do with offering the public a product they wish to see at a price their willing to pay. Disneyland offers that product, California Adventure clearly doesn’t. Perhaps all the hour cuts, price increases and general decline in value might be affecting the public’s perception of WDW. They certainly seem to be willing to travel to places they want to go.

As for the other entertainment companies, well TimeWarner has that whole AOL mess, Vivendi has everything from Moroccan cell phone companies to text book publishing to the Paris sewer system (and its Universal unit is doing tremendously well), Viacom is doing real nice and a single Warner Brothers’ movie (‘The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring’) generated more profit last year than Disney’s entire filmed entertainment group did. General Electric has a very profitable network (something that Disney lacks). Sony is doing very well and even pitiful MGM has posted a quarterly profit.

Looking at the entertainment companies it certainly looks like how well a business is run, rather than the boogey-man economy excuse – is what separates the winners from the losers.

And “Why would you need to pay someone to support a Disney admiration society” – why does Eisner keep his own make-up artist on the payroll? It’s because it’s so easy to pamper one’s ego with the company’s money.
 
Is Las Vegas actually increasing in guest numbers this year? Funny I've been seeing $25.00 rates left & right. :confused: Perhaps they're increasing bodies at the expense of the accomodations profit... But see Vegas can do this as we all know the hotel profits were just the gravy to the gambling profits anyway. Rest assured that when the demand is back those cheaper rates will dwindle as well...Just like WDW.

Disneyland is probably the exception but with 3.5 million people at your doorstep the rules are certainly different. As for DCA, we know your feelings and as you remember I admitted it was light in the loafers as well, but to those of us from out of town it still added to the enjoyment of the DLR. Now Bob O will go soon and be totally negative in his reply (if he isn't I'll eat 10 churros in 10 minutes!) but for most of us (Resorters) we felt no increase in cost, had the lovely GC to stay in and enjoyed 'Saorin', 'GRRR', CS, The Animation Building, ITTBAG, Mupetts, Main St. Electrical Parade and so on. The fact that it wasn't built to a high standard hurts the local guest count & the Company (serious issues, to be sure) - But it isn't a negative to those of us from out of town.

As for Disney's successes...Well, my friend it must thrill you to no end that Michael's toy won the World Series...;)
:cool: :cool: :bounce: :cool: :cool:
 
I will be sure to tell my stock broker that all of the entertainment units of GE, Vivendi, Sony, and AOL are up so I get a better price when he sells them. In fact since the major league baseball division of the Disney corporation looks pretty good right now I should be able to sell that stock for more than the going price. No? I guess Disney owning the World Series Champions is just a case of a blind squirrel finding a nut. By the way if Disney really is paying people to pump for them on boards can you tell me where to apply for the job? I would like to get paid for this. If I did I would post more and lurk less.
 
All - curiously enough the Orlando Sentinel had an article over the weekend about the boom in Las Vegas.

It turns out that being within driving distance of the LA basin is working to Las Vegas's advantage.
 
Sorry Mr. Voice, I was obviously wrong. It appears LV is recovering, if not growing, quite nicely although I find some of the statistics quoted hard to believe.

If occupancy is so high, why all of the low rates? If hotel revenues are up how can that be given that it's been a lot discounted rates pushing the occupancy up?

Nice article BStanley, thanks for passing it on.
:cool: :cool: :bounce: :cool: :cool:
 
About 2 months ago, California reported that its tourism (from non-Californians) for 2002 was actually up over 2001.

Its hard to find anybody still reporting the kind of hits Disney has reported.

Mr. Pirate, nobody is going to seriously argue that for the guests, a parking lot would provide more enjoyment than DCA. And you're right, the pricing is now to the point that you can visit it without much of an increase in price. But that's only because Disney was forced into that situation when they DID charge quite a bit more to add DCA to guests' itineraries, and the guests balked. Given the amount of money Disney invested and the damage done to the Disney brand, DCA can be considered nothing but a disaster for the company.

As for Vegas, I'm sure the average rates are a little lower than the hotels would like them to be, but Vegas hotel rates have always varied greatly even in boom times. We've been able to get weekend rooms on The Strip for under $100, even prior to 9/11. Weekday rates of $39 were not at all unusual for places like Excalibur and The Luxor 2-3 years ago.

Rates in Vegas are not only heavily dependent on time of year and day of week, but also on conventions.

Also, Vegas just completed a heavy building boom, with muliple major resorts being completed over the last 5 years. What effect the increase in number of rooms is having on rates is unclear given the other significant outside events that have taken place.
 
Originally posted by Peter Pirate
If occupancy is so high, why all of the low rates?

Because the sheer volume of competition is ridiculous. And like somebody said, if people pay less for their room, that's more money to pump into the casinos.
 
I was talking to my dad about this the other day and this is what he said....
He thinks that when Disney reports something like #'s in MK are down from 10 yrs ago, thats because there is soooo much more to do. A new park, a new water park...more resorts....
I personally dont notice a difference in attendance, but I do agree with what he is saying....to say there is a decline in the # of rooms booked at CBR...well its because of so many new resorts opening.

I think that when building all the new parks, resorts and other things they thought the attendance would increase and the #'s just have not caught up with where they thought they would be,

By the way..all this about #'s down from 10 yrs ago and CBR...was all just an example, I know NO real facts or statistics!
 
It turns out that being within driving distance of the LA basin is working to Las Vegas's advantage.
Or disadvantage depending on how you look at it.LOLTry driving on I-15 on a Friday in or Sunday out. Living in 2 tourist destinations has its benifits but serious speedbumps as well.
Never gets boring thats for sure.
 












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