DD's High School teacher is a nut

Opinion? Denying facts is not an opinion.
Actually it is, by definition:
o·pin·ion
əˈpinyən/
noun
  1. a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
OK, maybe not "denying", but opinions don't need facts.

ETA: I'd still like to know what he said. Was it an off the cuff comment? Was he truly "teaching" his beliefs?
How does he act during safety drills?

Answers to these questions would determine how upset I would get, and therefore my response.
 
My short answer is yes, I would report this to the higher-ups and I would do so independent of whether my child chose to report this themselves (though I would certainly support them in their decision to do so).

My longer answer involves using examples of a few situations I encountered during my own schooling which I will rattle off as quickly as possible:

  • In middle school, a fellow student was showing off a gun he had brought to school on the bus. I told my mother about it, then promptly panicked when she said she was going to report it because, while I knew bringing a gun to school was wrong, I still didn't want to be marked a snitch during those already socially difficult middle school years. In the end, I ended up writing out an affidavit statement alongside other mortified kids who themselves wouldn't have chosen to report the student with the gun, but whose parents had very rightly done so once they found out about it. (This was before school shootings were a "thing." Back then, the most likely reason for a kid to bring a gun to school was to show it off and look like a tough guy, not because they intended to spray bullets indiscriminately. I tend to think myself and the other students would've responded very differently if we were coming up in today's environment.)
  • In my junior year I had a teacher who let us watch porn in class. Nothing came of it, presumably because no one mentioned it to any other adults, or mentioned it to any adults who thought it was worth reporting.
  • Throughout high school there were a number of incidents involving teachers and sexual misconduct with their students.
My question is for the posters who think the OP's situation needs to be addressed, but that the daughter should be handling it herself -- Would the same be true for any of the above scenarios? What if your child was too embarrassed or shy to handle it themselves, do you then just let it go? Or what if your child disagrees with you about it being an issue that needs to be addressed at all? Do you say, "Oh well, my 17 year old doesn't think it's a big deal that the teacher lets them watch porn in class and he'll be an adult soon, so it's not my place to say anything?" Where do you draw the line before you feel an adult/parent should get involved?

I completely agree that children should be given as many opportunities as possible to learn responsibility, practice independence, and prepare for "the real world," but I also feel there's a big difference between advocating for themselves regarding some perceived "grading injustice" on their science fair project vs. reporting someone who is, or could become, an actual danger to others (and I consider certain ideologies to be dangerous, particularly when they are possibly influencing impressionable minds). For me, a public school is no place for extremist views, hate speech, sexual misconduct, etc. and any adult partaking in those things in that setting is unfit to be in a position of authority over underage minors. If I were to find out something of that nature was taking place in my child's school, I would feel it is my responsibility as the adult to make sure it was reported quickly and through the appropriate channels in such a way that the concern would be taken seriously. Watching how confidently and assertively I handle it can be the learning experience my child can take with them into their adulthood. And if they one day find themselves in a similar situation, I hope they will think back and remember the lesson that sometimes it's your responsibility as an adult to get involved on behalf of others who may not have the confidence, knowledge, or means to tackle an issue head on.*

* I realize some people don't think having a holocaust-denying, 9/11 conspiracy theorist, crisis-actor-believing teacher spewing his personal beliefs in class is all that big of a deal, and I'm not suggesting those people have any obligation to do anything about it. My comments are directed to those who do think it needs to be dealt with, but feel it's wrong for the OP to get involved.
 
Ok, maybe he discussed his point of view with his administrators and co-workers. Or his belief. Or his opinion-which may or may not be formed in fact. We know the facts as we have been told to be true. His opinion is that these are not facts and the alternative facts that he DOES believe are true. That is an opinion.

I don't agree with him.
This man is a teacher. He is to set an example in his classroom about the acquisition of knowledge and reasoning. His looney and unsubstantiated point of view should not be presented to his students, period. You are not entitled to change facts to match your absurd beliefs and be taken seriously as a learned person.
 

Although I am almost always in the stay out of it camp, this would be a bridge too far for me. Someone denying that a mass shooting at a high school occurred is unstable.

As a high school teacher how is he equipped to handle a similar situation if he thinks school shootings are some government hoax?
Totally agree.
 
Do the teachers in your local high school teach all grades? Here the senior teachers or just that SENIOR teachers, Freshman teachers teach freshman classes and so on. The only class that may cross over (besides choir, art, band and sports) is a math class and even those are rare. History, English, Science are all divided by year. DD's senior AP Government teacher refused to teach any students that were not Seniors. And that's what he taught.

And you don't know if he is "recruiting".

Our high school teachers teach different grades, same subject. An English teacher may have 2 freshman classes, 1 sophomore, 1 junior and 1 senior class a day. My algebra 1 class that I had as a freshman had a couple juniors in it as they needed to take some general math classes in their freshman and sophomore years first. I always felt I was responsible for my kids until they graduated high school therefore, I would contact the principal. Luckily, nothing much happened (except of a jerk of a girl's softball coach) so I never had to go to anyone. College, they were on their own.
 
and irresponsible, would you report him?

We knew going in that he was a 9/11 conspiracy theorist but today he was talking about how the Parkland shooting was a hoax, didn't really happen and is a cover-up. :scared:

Come on, you are telling a room full of high school students that their fears and emotions are not valid because it is all a conspiracy? And what if, heaven forbid, something does happen and the kids don't respond because they think it is a hoax?

The last few years I have let DD handle teacher interactions so she can advocate for herself and she is comfortable doing so but this seems different to me.

Thoughts?

I would let your daughter address it with the staff, but if they dismiss her claims or don't believe her, then I would think about taking up the issue with the faculty.
 
This man is a teacher. He is to set an example in his classroom about the acquisition of knowledge and reasoning. His looney and unsubstantiated point of view should not be presented to his students, period. You are not entitled to change facts to match your absurd beliefs and be taken seriously as a learned person.

So, are you of the opinion that other points of view or beliefs should never be discussed? There are many "theories" that go around about any event. I think its important for students to know these theories and know where they come from.

I do agree with the pp, that I would like to know how this was brought up in the classroom. And I would like to know how the teacher acted in the drill the op mentioned.



And IF knowing these things made me uncomfortable with the teacher, I would first encourage dd to go to the administration and then see where we are. A Senior in high school should have the ability to talk to administration and handle problems on their own. They are too close to college not to.
 
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So, are you of the opinion that other points of view or beliefs should never be discussed? There are many "theories" that go around about any event. I think its important for students to know these theories and know where they come from.

Saying that the Parkland shooting is a hoax is not a "point of view". A point of view is a perspective or attitude about an issue...so for example, it would be a point of view or perspective to say "the Parkland shooting would have been prevented if there was an armed teacher in every classroom". Saying "the parkland shooting didnt' happen/is a hoax" is stating a falsehood.

Sure, it's a belief- a completely misguided, and frankly, nutty one. Sure, let's talk to teens about conspiracy theories. For example, as a teen growing up I was taught that there is a sect of people who believe the Holocaust never happened. But in this case, the teacher is presenting his wack-a-doodle theory, and no one is there to tell the teens "ok, now stop, let's critically think and look at the evidence, this CANNOT be the truth in this situation". Therefore, he is dangerous.
 
Report it. A middle school teacher in Florida was recently fired because she hosted some ultra conservative podcast (which is fine) but then she started spouting off her views in class (which is NOT fine).

This is worse than that, in my opinion.

Conspiracy Theorists can be teachers. That's fine. When they start sharing their conspiracy theories as fact in their classroom, to a population of impressionable students, it's time to go.
 
Saying that the Parkland shooting is a hoax is not a "point of view". A point of view is a perspective or attitude about an issue...so for example, it would be a point of view or perspective to say "the Parkland shooting would have been prevented if there was an armed teacher in every classroom". Saying "the parkland shooting didnt' happen/is a hoax" is stating a falsehood.

Sure, it's a belief- a completely misguided, and frankly, nutty one. Sure, let's talk to teens about conspiracy theories. For example, as a teen growing up I was taught that there is a sect of people who believe the Holocaust never happened. But in this case, the teacher is presenting his wack-a-doodle theory, and no one is there to tell the teens "ok, now stop, let's critically think and look at the evidence, this CANNOT be the truth in this situation". Therefore, he is dangerous.

Were you there? How do you know the students were not encouraged to give their own views?

Yes it is a point of view or a belief or an opinion. It is the way this person sees the facts of this event. Is he correct in the way he sees it, no, I do not believe so. But right or wrong it is the way he sees it. Just because it is not what you know to be true does not mean it is not his point of view on the subject.

I think there is a right and a wrong way to teach kids something and using the words "wack a doodle" are not the right way.

The theories should be presented to them and then the facts to back up what we know to be true. I don't think it hurts to say "this is why they think this". One of the 9/11 theories is about the plane that went into the Pentagon. Saying there is no film of the crash, what the plane "should" have done or not done on impact and other stuff. Its not wrong to show a student that side of it and then give them the proof of the plane actually crashing into the Pentagon. That is how you keep kids from knowing the difference in true facts and alternative facts. We want to encourage our kids to think for themselves and be able to research or look at the evidence and know the facts for themselves. THAT is how you help them learn not to be "recruited" into believing the nonsense. The OP could certainly use this situation as a learning tool for her student.

I use 9/11 rather than the Holocaust because while I have heard there are those that don't believe it happened, I have no idea what they could possibly base that on.
 
Were you there? How do you know the students were not encouraged to give their own views?

Yes it is a point of view or a belief or an opinion. It is the way this person sees the facts of this event. Is he correct in the way he sees it, no, I do not believe so. But right or wrong it is the way he sees it. Just because it is not what you know to be true does not mean it is not his point of view on the subject.

I think there is a right and a wrong way to teach kids something and using the words "wack a doodle" are not the right way.

The theories should be presented to them and then the facts to back up what we know to be true. I don't think it hurts to say "this is why they think this". One of the 9/11 theories is about the plane that went into the Pentagon. Saying there is no film of the crash, what the plane "should" have done or not done on impact and other stuff. Its not wrong to show a student that side of it and then give them the proof of the plane actually crashing into the Pentagon. That is how you keep kids from knowing the difference in true facts and alternative facts. We want to encourage our kids to think for themselves and be able to research or look at the evidence and know the facts for themselves. THAT is how you help them learn not to be "recruited" into believing the nonsense. The OP could certainly use this situation as a learning tool for her student.

We are on the same page for the last paragraph of what you just said. in that I agree it's important that kids should be able to think for themselves. I agree it's important to teach kids to research and understand the evidence.

Let's give this man the benefit of the doubt since I wasn't there and say, OK, sure- he was just trying to teach the kids to understand to think for themselves by saying something radical. Even so, the example of a shooting at a school where 17 innocent people were killed, just a couple weeks after it happened, is simply not ok. If I was a student in the class, what am I supposed to do, raise my hand and say "Mr. Smith, I disagree with you. You are saying that the shooting didn't happen. Well, I saw a picture of a kid my age bleeding out on the floor of his classroom, how could that have been faked?" Just not ok.

We can take an event that is less recent and therefore somewhat less painful like..9/11, for example. Even in that case, I don't think it's appropriate to teach kids to have a conspiracy theory, mistrustful attitude towards the world. IMO, an appropriate thing to do to teach kids to think for themselves, for example, is to encourage them to research current gun control policies in the US and have an informed debate/discussion about the best way to curb gun violence. It is NOT to have them "debate" whether or not an actual event even happened in the first place. That's a waste of time and also, harmful.
 
So, are you of the opinion that other points of view or beliefs should never be discussed?

Short answer, yes.... Very much YES....
With this clarification....

When those 'views' are contrary to what we know to be the actual facts....
When those 'views' are racist (reverse-racist) etc...
When those 'views' might cause confusion/anxiety/etc... regarding student/childrens safety...
And several other criteria...
 
We are on the same page for the last paragraph of what you just said. in that I agree it's important that kids should be able to think for themselves. I agree it's important to teach kids to research and understand the evidence.

Let's give this man the benefit of the doubt since I wasn't there and say, OK, sure- he was just trying to teach the kids to understand to think for themselves by saying something radical. Even so, the example of a shooting at a school where 17 innocent people were killed, just a couple weeks after it happened, is simply not ok. If I was a student in the class, what am I supposed to do, raise my hand and say "Mr. Smith, I disagree with you. You are saying that the shooting didn't happen. Well, I saw a picture of a kid my age bleeding out on the floor of his classroom, how could that have been faked?" Just not ok.

We can take an event that is less recent and therefore somewhat less painful like..9/11, for example. Even in that case, I don't think it's appropriate to teach kids to have a conspiracy theory, mistrustful attitude towards the world. IMO, an appropriate thing to do to teach kids to think for themselves, for example, is to encourage them to research current gun control policies in the US and have an informed debate/discussion about the best way to curb gun violence. It is NOT to have them "debate" whether or not an actual event even happened in the first place. That's a waste of time and also, harmful.

So its better to use the example of something where thousands were killed and before these students were born? IF the teacher used it in that context, using something that is more real to the student has more impact. Honestly 9/11 and the holocaust is history to them and not something they may see as relevant to their lives in the here and now.

Its not harmful if it helps them to understand why you don't just go believing everything you see or hear. It makes them think for themselves when they are approached by someone who is trying to sway their way of thinking.

Debating gun control is not even in the same ball park.
 
Short answer, yes.... Very much YES....
With this clarification....

When those 'views' are contrary to what we know to be the actual facts....
When those 'views' are racist (reverse-racist) etc...
When those 'views' might cause confusion/anxiety/etc... regarding student/childrens safety...
And several other criteria...

These are not "children" they are adults or pretty darn close. If they cannot hear other views and learn to discern right and wrong for themselves then we have much bigger problems than conspiracy theorists. They have got to be able to learn how to discard information that is not factual or be able to look at all explanations of something and determine the truth.

The only way this is dangerous to their safety is if the teacher is not following protocol in the lock down drills and we don't know that to be true.
 
My short answer is yes, I would report this to the higher-ups and I would do so independent of whether my child chose to report this themselves (though I would certainly support them in their decision to do so).

My longer answer involves using examples of a few situations I encountered during my own schooling which I will rattle off as quickly as possible:

  • In middle school, a fellow student was showing off a gun he had brought to school on the bus. I told my mother about it, then promptly panicked when she said she was going to report it because, while I knew bringing a gun to school was wrong, I still didn't want to be marked a snitch during those already socially difficult middle school years. In the end, I ended up writing out an affidavit statement alongside other mortified kids who themselves wouldn't have chosen to report the student with the gun, but whose parents had very rightly done so once they found out about it. (This was before school shootings were a "thing." Back then, the most likely reason for a kid to bring a gun to school was to show it off and look like a tough guy, not because they intended to spray bullets indiscriminately. I tend to think myself and the other students would've responded very differently if we were coming up in today's environment.)
  • In my junior year I had a teacher who let us watch porn in class. Nothing came of it, presumably because no one mentioned it to any other adults, or mentioned it to any adults who thought it was worth reporting.
  • Throughout high school there were a number of incidents involving teachers and sexual misconduct with their students.
My question is for the posters who think the OP's situation needs to be addressed, but that the daughter should be handling it herself -- Would the same be true for any of the above scenarios? What if your child was too embarrassed or shy to handle it themselves, do you then just let it go? Or what if your child disagrees with you about it being an issue that needs to be addressed at all? Do you say, "Oh well, my 17 year old doesn't think it's a big deal that the teacher lets them watch porn in class and he'll be an adult soon, so it's not my place to say anything?" Where do you draw the line before you feel an adult/parent should get involved?
[snip]

Assuming that the students involved in your scenarios above were under age 18, it's a simple line for me. All of those behaviors violate laws. If I know about a criminal law being violated in a school, then yes, I will make absolutely sure that the administration knows about it, and no, I won't force my child to be the first reporter.

A conspiracy-theory-spouting teacher isn't breaking any laws in this country (unlike in Germany, for example, where defending Nazis is actually prohibited by law.) What he or she is doing is inappropriate, and probably violates the terms of a contract of employment, but is not illegal. As it's happening in a school it becomes a curriculum issue, which is a policy call. (True, it ISN"T actually part of the curriculum, but kids tend to interpret any statement of "fact" coming from a teacher as something that they are being taught, and therein lies the issue. It APPEARS to be curriculum in the eyes of the kids.) At the high school level, questions about curriculum policies are best addressed by students, because the act of questioning it through proper channels teaches a very valuable lesson in critical thinking and how to make change within a system.
 
FYI, most public schools have rules in place regarding what things are considered "off limits/inappropriate" for teachers to do or say. It's part of their code of conduct. This is why teachers can be fired for saying and doing certain things. This isn't as much a matter of opinion as of policy.

As a parent, reporting this is the appropriate thing to do. The school will make a determination whether what this teacher said is a violation of their policy or not.
 
When I was a para we were told we could not even hint at our political views to the kids. One student told me that her mother said that all white people hate Barack Obama (this was right after he was elected). I had to pause a minute and finally said, "well, I'm white and I like him." Which probably was a violation and I felt nervous even saying that.
 


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