DD's High School teacher is a nut

[fortwildernessishome]

These are not "children" they are adults or pretty darn close. If they cannot hear other views and learn to discern right and wrong for themselves then we have much bigger problems than conspiracy theorists. They have got to be able to learn how to discard information that is not factual or be able to look at all explanations of something and determine the truth.

The only way this is dangerous to their safety is if the teacher is not following protocol in the lock down drills and we don't know that to be true.

I think it is fine for children and young adults to "hear other views" and "learn to discern right and wrong". But there are many ways to accomplish that without having a high school teacher say that a recent school shooting is a hoax!

I have one son in college and one graduated from college and I can say that they "learned how to discard information that is not factual" and they are able to "look at all explanations of something to determine the truth" and they accomplished this feat without having a high school teacher tell them that current events were actually a big hoax!!

If a public school feels like the only way to teach kids to do critical thinking is by having a teacher say that events are hoax's then they need to review their institution!

 

[OhhBother]

The teacher should be reported to the principal, the school board and the local news media. I cannot fathom how this is even up for debate. He is stating blatant falsehoods as fact. That would be the opposite of his job description -- for his publicly funded job. I really, really hope the OP reports back that this guy has been fired.

 

[Pink Partridge]

I wouldn't care if it was a lunch lady or a custodian or a bus driver spewing such insanity. I would report anyone employed in a public education system that is mentally unstable/unhinged enough to say the recent slaughter of children and teachers was a hoax.

This is not about teens coping with different views. This is about a teacher that is highly delusional. He needs help. But most importantly, he needs to be out of the school system.

 

[mrsv98]

We sent the email this morning, it will be interesting to see what happens next, stayed tuned...

 

[PollyannaMom]

...However, this kind of thing does make me wonder (& maybe this should be another thread)... Does a teacher have any right to express any personal opinions at all? I remember teaching during an election year & my kindergarten students wanting to know for whom I voted - I didn't tell them.

Where does one draw the line as to what opinions can be expressed... politics, religion, school budgets, science, Oxford comma usage...? There's going to a plethora of different topics on which a teacher is going to have an opinion - some of which directly relate to whatever the teacher is teaching at the time.

And, if a teacher doesn't express personal opinions in class but expresses his/her opinions online via social media, is that okay?

Going way back to when I was in 2nd grade, I remember my parents & the parents of the other students in my class were furious when our teacher told us that Santa Claus wasn't real.

I'm the same way. I just say that a person's vote is private, because I don't want to open that discussion.

I think it's fine to talk about things like how a school budget should be spent. - As long as you tell the kids how both sides are feeling, I think it's a good thing for them to think about (and get to share their own feelings on.)

And by all means tell them what kind of comma usage will get an A from you!

I think the difference here is that the teacher is denying something that is looming very large in their thoughts right now, and his refusal to take it seriously could result in him not following safety protocols in a real emergency.

Awww - I would have been mad too if someone had done that when DS was in second grade!

 

[Nancyg56]

I feel I need to chime in once again on this thread. Yesterday there was an "event" at our local high school. My DGD is a junior there. A student made some threats, initially against himself and the school when into lockdown. The situation escalated when threats of a bomb hidden in the school were made, and the students were evacuated, buses were called in ASAP and the kids removed from the grounds. The fire alarm went off, and the students were terrified becuase they had been taugh tthat in a lock down they needed to ignore the alarm untill they were told it was safe to evacuate....visions of Parkland all over again....

I am proud to say that the staff, the police, the bus personall that flew intot eh situation all reacted impecably. Our children were all safe.

My concern with a teacher "sharing" his viewpoint that a school shooting was a hoax is that under very real conditions like what happened yesterday in our town, the students in his care will not know if he can be trusted. The last thing we need in an emergency is a teacher who is not able to differentiate reality from hoax. For me, until yesterday this conversation was hypothetical. today it is a very real situational problem for me. My reaction, given what occurred in my town would be to contact the principal and discuss the potential consequences of any teacher who not only believes school shootings are hoaxes, but is comfortable enough to share that viewpoint with the students.

Our kids did exactly what the teachers told then to do, but they were terrified exiting that building. I think that unfortunately, they needed to be very much aware of their surroundings.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Wow......
I am SO glad that it seems the everything did turn out okay.
How terrifying!!!!!

There is simply no argument or justification that any 'nut' like this should be teaching in our schools, and propogating their 'crazy'.

 

[Nancyg56]

Wow......
I am SO glad that it seems the everything did turn out okay.
How terrifying!!!!!

There is simply no argument or justification that any 'nut' like this should be teaching in our schools, and propogating their 'crazy'.

It is ironic that this happened in advance of the townwide safety meeting scheduled for Monday evening. One of my friends is an officer in town and he had told me that they prepare for this kind of thing. We had neighboring towns send assistance very quickly, and it was a godsend that the SRO was in that school at the time. When back up arrived he was actively engaged with the young man. Had this kid had outside help or whatever, I have no idea what the outcome would have been.

I will add that our SRO makes a point of getting to know all of the kids in town, and our officers regularly schedule events to meet and greet both adults and youngsters. They have "coffee with a cop" ice cream with the cops" Pokemon whatever that is with emergency services, etc. They work very hard to establish a relationship with people so that when something like this occurs, at least they may have some kind of connection.

 

[mrsv98]

**UPDATE**

We received this response:

"I have had a conversation with Mr. X about these important concerns. (I did not use DD's or your name at any point) Mr. X did say that there was a class discussion about some of these "ideas" of conspiracy surrounding recent events. He made it clear to me that his position, and what he intended to communicate to students, was that we do not always have access to all information and that we should always seek as much information as possible before making decisions.

That being said, Mr. X understands that this topic (as well as others that you mentioned) and any surrounding conspiracy theories are not appropriate topics for discussion in the classroom. "

Kind of generic but appropriate response, we didn't want the guy to lose his job just cut it out in the classroom. We are satisfied with the response at this point, however we will see if he starts up again and escalate if he does. DD's friend has same teacher, same class, different period and recorded him and I have heard it. He clearly believes what he is saying and as evidenced by him spouting it in different classes, this wasn't a one off thing.

Thanks for all the great conversation and points of view, it is always interesting to see how others see a situation.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

**UPDATE**

We received this response:

"I have had a conversation with Mr. X about these important concerns. (I did not use DD's or your name at any point) Mr. X did say that there was a class discussion about some of these "ideas" of conspiracy surrounding recent events. He made it clear to me that his position, and what he intended to communicate to students, was that we do not always have access to all information and that we should always seek as much information as possible before making decisions.

That being said, Mr. X understands that this topic (as well as others that you mentioned) and any surrounding conspiracy theories are not appropriate topics for discussion in the classroom. "

Kind of generic but appropriate response, we didn't want the guy to lose his job just cut it out in the classroom. We are satisfied with the response at this point, however we will see if he starts up again and escalate if he does. DD's friend has same teacher, same class, different period and recorded him and I have heard it. He clearly believes what he is saying and as evidenced by him spouting it in different classes, this wasn't a one off thing.

Thanks for all the great conversation and points of view, it is always interesting to see how others see a situation.

If you don't mind I thought of a few things--appreciate you getting back to what was said by administration.

~So do you personally believe "what he intended to communicate to students, was that we do not always have access to all information and that we should always seek as much information as possible before making decisions" or do you believe the 'he's trying to recruit' viewpoint? or do you believe something else was going on?

~When you were talking with your daughter about it was the context brought up?--meaning that there had been "class discussion about some of these "ideas" of conspiracy surrounding recent events."

~Do you think the teacher attempted or did say something along the lines of seeking as much information as possible before making decisions during said class discussion?

~Did I misunderstand--did you say your daughter's friend recorded the teacher? Did your daughter's friend have permission to record the teacher?

 

[luvsJack]

**UPDATE**

We received this response:

"I have had a conversation with Mr. X about these important concerns. (I did not use DD's or your name at any point) Mr. X did say that there was a class discussion about some of these "ideas" of conspiracy surrounding recent events. He made it clear to me that his position, and what he intended to communicate to students, was that we do not always have access to all information and that we should always seek as much information as possible before making decisions.

That being said, Mr. X understands that this topic (as well as others that you mentioned) and any surrounding conspiracy theories are not appropriate topics for discussion in the classroom. "

Kind of generic but appropriate response, we didn't want the guy to lose his job just cut it out in the classroom. We are satisfied with the response at this point, however we will see if he starts up again and escalate if he does. DD's friend has same teacher, same class, different period and recorded him and I have heard it. He clearly believes what he is saying and as evidenced by him spouting it in different classes, this wasn't a one off thing.

Thanks for all the great conversation and points of view, it is always interesting to see how others see a situation.

So the teacher’s intent was for them to understand there are many theories and they should look for as much information as possible before they decide what they believe?

Isn’t that what we want our children to learn to do?

Have any of the students debated what his views with him or tried to?

Regardless of what he believes, is he opening the theories up for discussion or only pushing what he believes to be true?

 

[mrsv98]

If you don't mind I thought of a few things--appreciate you getting back to what was said by administration.

~So do you personally believe "what he intended to communicate to students, was that we do not always have access to all information and that we should always seek as much information as possible before making decisions" or do you believe the 'he's trying to recruit' viewpoint? or do you believe something else was going on?

I don't think he is trying to "recruit" but I do think he believes what he says. He is well known among the students, DD knew he was "the conspiracy guy" before she stepped in his classroom. I think he believes what he says and I think the students know it and wind him up. That being said, he should have enough sense to change the topic.

~When you were talking with your daughter about it was the context brought up?--meaning that there had been "class discussion about some of these "ideas" of conspiracy surrounding recent events."

See above, I think the students probably goad him or egg him on knowing his reputation

~Do you think the teacher attempted or did say something along the lines of seeking as much information as possible before making decisions during said class discussion?

No, I think he believes what he says, on the recording, he talks about "Sheeple" and "mental manipulation"

~Did I misunderstand--did you say your daughter's friend recorded the teacher? Did your daughter's friend have permission to record the teacher?

Probably not but being a kid also most likely doesn't know what laws apply. However, in the digital age, as a teacher I would always assume someone is recording and conduct my class in that manner. Not saying someone is but act as if someone is.

 

[CarolAnn856]

The response from the admin sounds pretty generic, and I wouldn't put much stock in the teacher's excuse, given his past behavior and the recording. OP, it sounds like you have a good handle on the situation. Best of luck to you and your daughter!

~Did I misunderstand--did you say your daughter's friend recorded the teacher? Did your daughter's friend have permission to record the teacher?

According to an article from 2015, recording a teacher in the classroom is not illegal, although asking permission is preferable.

http://blogs.findlaw.com/law_and_life/2015/09/is-it-legal-to-record-your-teachers-or-professors.html

 

[robinb]

So the teacher’s intent was for them to understand there are many theories and they should look for as much information as possible before they decide what they believe?

Isn’t that what we want our children to learn to do?

Have any of the students debated what his views with him or tried to?

Regardless of what he believes, is he opening the theories up for discussion or only pushing what he believes to be true?

What do you expect him to say? He's covering his butt. This is a MATH class, not social studies.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

According to an article from 2015, recording a teacher in the classroom is not illegal, although asking permission is preferable.

I didn't ask if it was illegal. I asked if I understood the poster correctly and if they had permission to record.

 

[sunshinehighway]

**UPDATE**

We received this response:

"I have had a conversation with Mr. X about these important concerns. (I did not use DD's or your name at any point) Mr. X did say that there was a class discussion about some of these "ideas" of conspiracy surrounding recent events. He made it clear to me that his position, and what he intended to communicate to students, was that we do not always have access to all information and that we should always seek as much information as possible before making decisions.

That being said, Mr. X understands that this topic (as well as others that you mentioned) and any surrounding conspiracy theories are not appropriate topics for discussion in the classroom. "

Kind of generic but appropriate response, we didn't want the guy to lose his job just cut it out in the classroom. We are satisfied with the response at this point, however we will see if he starts up again and escalate if he does. DD's friend has same teacher, same class, different period and recorded him and I have heard it. He clearly believes what he is saying and as evidenced by him spouting it in different classes, this wasn't a one off thing.

Thanks for all the great conversation and points of view, it is always interesting to see how others see a situation.

If you're happy with that response then I guess the situation is over. Personally that response would make me very concerned. While gathering all information is important. It's just as important to gather legitimate information. The only way a discussion of a hoax should come into the conversation is to discuss the importance of the sources of information. Since you seem clear that he believes this stuff, I think he's not telling them to beware of information from bad sources.
While some poster don't like the term recruiting or don't think that's what he's doing, I think the response you got says that's exactly what he's doing. It sounds like he's pointing kids to seek out these shading sites and making it sound as if they should be considered when trying to form an opinion on something.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Thanks in advance for answering.

I don't think he is trying to "recruit" but I do think he believes what he says. He is well known among the students, DD knew he was "the conspiracy guy" before she stepped in his classroom. I think he believes what he says and I think the students know it and wind him up. That being said, he should have enough sense to change the topic.

See above, I think the students probably goad him or egg him on knowing his reputation

I can understand the 'should have changed subjects' . I do think your statement of the students goading him or egging him on..sounds less than stellar TBH. That's not cool at all to provoke someone like that and then go to the admins based on the students goading. I can totally get if the teacher started talking and no one could convince the teacher to move on but to purposefullly goad and egg on someone..

A lot of the conversation here on the thread surrounded 'impressionable children', 'recruiting', etc. Sounds like his reputation is quite well known. I guess unless you found out someone listened to him..like actually listened to him, that people just take him as that teacher if you know what I mean. Doesn't mean he should automatically be teaching because yes schools don't always weed out the ones that are not so good. It also sounds like the students are not necessarily handling it correctly when it has actually occurred. I wouldn't say the guy is without issues especially with his thoughts on the matter don't mistake that aspect but it's not good when students wind someone up like that intentionally--I've found that whenever my mother-in-law for example starts spouting nonsense that she saw or watched on FB the last thing we want to do is to goad her into continuing to talk her about it or to intentially goad her into a tirade about the crap she truly believes. We divert the topic onto something different. Can't say that would actually work in the classroom with your daughter's teacher but that certainly would be a stronger footing if it was known the students attempted to move the conversation elsewhere back onto topic and that failed and so admins need to know as the classroom isn't being used effectively for the particular topic the class is on.
______________________________________

Probably not but being a kid also most likely doesn't know what laws apply. However, in the digital age, as a teacher I would always assume someone is recording and conduct my class in that manner. Not saying someone is but act as if someone is.

Gotcha. I just thought it would look more favorably on students if they had asked permission to record and the teacher started spouting off things. Sure nothing in IL, as I looked up after PP brought up legality aspect, says a classroom is a protected area so it's not illegal.

No, I think he believes what he says, on the recording, he talks about "Sheeple" and "mental manipulation"

Without the recording though you'd be back to how fellow classmates and your daughter described the situation unless you personally heard the teacher. Of course that's not saying the students described it incorrectly just saying that you'd be back to how they described it. I've no doubt the guy actually believes what he thinks or it seems that way but I also think it is possible for someone to believe what they say and at the same time pushing for people to looking beyond what they were initially told. I mean truthfully a lot of conspiracy theories start out because someone chose to question what they were told and then sought out more information..it's just that information they sought out brought them into the rabbit dark hole.

 

[luvsJack]

What do you expect him to say? He's covering his butt. This is a MATH class, not social studies.

He may be but we don’t know that do we? Perhaps he does intend to keep the topic out of the classroom.

Math teachers are still teachers and discussion can go on in any class. It’s a current event or historical event depending on what they are talking about. Some of the best discussions we ever had about world events was with an English teacher. Some of the best lessons about writing were from a history teacher. And a lesson in understanding what we were doing in accounting came from a science teacher. Teachers are not limited in their abilities.

The OP said she believes the students were goading the teacher into the conversations. I wonder how. I mean what did they say or ask to get the discussion going. He needs to learn the art of the brushing off their comments or questions perhaps.

Obviously his views are well known in the school. Sounds like the students treat it like a joke. Perhaps most of them look at a way of distracting him from their math lesson rather than an actual, serious conversation. We had a teacher like that our junior year. Just ask about her kids and we were golden for an hour and got out of any assigned homework too! Maybe he needs to learn how to keep on task?

 

[CarolAnn856]

I didn't ask if it was illegal. I asked if I understood the poster correctly and if they had permission to record.

Wait, you give a snarky response to me, and then use my information in replying to the OP? Um, okay.

Sure nothing in IL, as I looked up after PP brought up legality aspect, says a classroom is a protected area so it's not illegal.

 

[luvsJack]

Don’t see how the recording could be an issue since lectures are recorded in many classrooms. It’s a good study tool for a lot of kids.