DDP Numbers Don't Add Up

[DisneyFansInNYC]

Couldn't agree more. On my recent trip, we paid out-of-pocket for everything with Magic Bands, and I really didn't keep track of spending. We didn't cut-corners either. We basically ate whatever we wanted (whenever and wherever too). I could have sworn that we were spending a fortune on food. When we got the bill at the end of the trip, I realized that we spent about $200 less than the dining plan would have cost. Plus, when you factor in all the things we bought that wouldn't have qualified, we probably saved even more.

We basically ate quick service for breakfast most days (plus one character dining experience). Same for lunch. Dinner was almost always a sit-down meal. Plus the occasional snack in the park (mostly for the adults - we brought healthy snacks for the kids).

That said, there is something to be said for not having to worry about keeping track of money while on vacation. If that is of concern, then the dining plan is well worth the piece of mind. To each his own.

I did the same on each trip after we used had the DDP. At the end of our first trip after I did the calculations and came out ahead - I knew that we would never get the DDP again. We ate at all of the high priced buffets - Ohana, Akershus, CRT, etc and still came out ahead.

If the DDP was free and there was no room discount then I would do it.

I wish Disney made the Dining Plans at a big enough discount that we shouldn't have to think about it. But until then, no DDP for us.

 

[DisneyFansInNYC]

Your break-even should be $120/day ($60 per person). You're over that on two days, but you doubled up on counter service meals those two days. You might need to double-check your math. You have a $30 entree at Flame Tree in there.

Your break even amount should be $132-$136/day (about $66-$68 per person) to compare to OOP. The DDP doesn't include tip for the TS meal - and that TS has to be at least $40 to make the DDP work. So depending if you give 15% to 20% tip, you need to add either $6-$8 per day per person.

I just want the OP to calculate it accurately. You can end up saving a lot of money and calories if you don't do the DDP. When we were on it - I found us ordering more expensive entrees - just to get our moneys worth. It was better when the DDP came with an appetizer and not a dessert.

 

[momtwoboys]

Any Disney Math gurus want to help me decide? We have always got the dining plan in the past and pay for it up front, but am debating this is actually a savings?? Not sure...so here goes. April 18-26th family of 4 2 teen boys. We eat a small breakfast in room every day, lunch is always a counter service no sharing... we usually get bottled water or ice tea with lunch and of course the dessert that comes with it..but we have been known to ask for an extra water here and there. Dinner is always a TS and we plan to eat at the following:
Sanaa
Boma Dinner
Trails End dinner
Biergarten Dinner
Garden grill dinner
Ohana dinner
Cape May dinner
Crystal Palace dinner
we tend to use the mugs only if we are staying somewhere that is convenient, for coffee or ice tea...last year they were a waste at BWV we never used them. We are staying at AKV this time so may be better use. We get a snack every day, for instance Dole whip floats or Sundaes in MK. So yeah or nay? Do we pay for it, or go OOP for once??

 

[supersnoop]

Your break even amount should be $132-$136/day (about $66-$68 per person) to compare to OOP. The DDP doesn't include tip for the TS meal

the numbers used to calculate the break even don't include tip either, so why should you add them the DDP cost to calculate breakeven? Unless she adds the tip to her her oop calf, it's inconsequential.

 

[sharonabe]

Any Disney Math gurus want to help me decide? We have always got the dining plan in the past and pay for it up front, but am debating this is actually a savings?? Not sure...so here goes. April 18-26th family of 4 2 teen boys. We eat a small breakfast in room every day, lunch is always a counter service no sharing... we usually get bottled water or ice tea with lunch and of course the dessert that comes with it..but we have been known to ask for an extra water here and there. Dinner is always a TS and we plan to eat at the following:
Sanaa
Boma Dinner
Trails End dinner
Biergarten Dinner
Garden grill dinner
Ohana dinner
Cape May dinner
Crystal Palace dinner
we tend to use the mugs only if we are staying somewhere that is convenient, for coffee or ice tea...last year they were a waste at BWV we never used them. We are staying at AKV this time so may be better use. We get a snack every day, for instance Dole whip floats or Sundaes in MK. So yeah or nay? Do we pay for it, or go OOP for once??

All of your buffet dinners (except Trail's End) are $40-44, so as long as you're going to use all of your QS entitlements (desserts and drinks), you'll probably come out a little ahead with the DDP. The TS part of the DDP is roughly worth about $38 and you're exceeding that. The Trail's End dinner is going to mess you up a little, but you can off set that with some higher end QS.

 

[sharonabe]

the numbers used to calculate the break even don't include tip either, so why should you add them the DDP cost to calculate breakeven? Unless she adds the tip to her her oop calf, it's inconsequential.

Not really. Most people "spend" more with DDP because of all the desserts and drinks and ordering the more expensive entrees, so the tip is more than paying OOP and sharing a dessert and/or drinking water.

 

[momtwoboys]

the only thing we could do without on the DDP is the desserts at CS places, but we have done OK with asking for 2 bottles of water, and 2 desserts for 4 of us to pick at. I was just wondering if by dropping each CS dessert would it be more cost effective? We are doing WPE, CHH, YNY, Mara, Tangeriene cafe, Lotus Blossom, and forget the name at BB, but overall pretty decent CS places. I just hate how we have to pay it all in a big lump ahead of time and seeing as we are staying at AKL we may drop that Trails end for Boma a second time during the week. Thanks for the advice, it does help!

 

[SydneyFalco]

So it all comes down to whether you would be ordering drinks and dessert while paying out of pocket. That's how all these discussions go. From the "That's way too much food!" side of the camp, I can easily see how the plan is a rip-off. Then again, even if the plan were 20 bucks a day per person, you could still beat it if you carry around a flask of rain water and a satchel full of MRE's.

It's all about finding your line. I know if I told the wife that in addition to having eat quick service, which she's not fond of to begin with, she has to have a water and skip dessert, when we get home she'll be turning our house into a "haunted mansion". So: dining plan.

 

[sharonabe]

So it all comes down to whether you would be ordering drinks and dessert while paying out of pocket. That's how all these discussions go. From the "That's way too much food!" side of the camp, I can easily see how the plan is a rip-off. Then again, even if the plan were 20 bucks a day per person, you could still beat it if you carry around a flask of rain water and a satchel full of MRE's.

It's all about finding your line. I know if I told the wife that in addition to having eat quick service, which she's not fond of to begin with, she has to have a water and skip dessert, when we get home she'll be turning our house into a "haunted mansion". So: dining plan.

Exactly! Each family has to decide what works for them, and it usually does come down to the drinks and desserts. We PREFER water to sodas/tea and that's free (no flask needed, you can get free cups of water at any QS). And with four Disney adults, just the thought of FOUR desserts on the table makes my stomach hurt. We are perfectly happy sharing just one between us.

So: NO dining plan for us.

 

[momtwoboys]

Guess for us its a yes then. Only thing we would cut out if oop would be the cs desserts. And paying out of pocket we have to add the tax in, with ddp its already included.

 

[robinb]

Breaking even is total OK for us, but I am really interested in your take on the desserts. Here at DLR I don't think we have bad desserts at the QS locations. And we have never been to WDW before. So I was hoping they would be on par with the ones I am used to from here. Or maybe I like 'crappy' sweets? I am not sure.

If you have some pointers one them I would love to hear, being our first experience at WDW and being there during F&W I really don't want to waste $$ and time of bad food. We are total foodies and love to eat and try new things. The only plus I could see is that because we haven't ever eaten at WDW maybe it will all be good?

It's been a while since I ate at DLR and I probably didn't eat desserts at the QS locations. I want make clear that the desserts at the TS locations in WDW are really great. If you are a sweets person the Almond Crusted Cheesecake at Narcoossee's is to die for! I have been known to stop at the bar for a cheesecake and glass of red wine. The QS desserts leave a lot to be desired. For instance, the Flame Tree mousses are just pasty and nasty (IMO). Not worth either the money or the calories.

The only QS dessert that I found to be worthwhile are the specialty cupcakes (they are good!) and the occasional ice cream bar. I guess that our family may just be fussy but we're not the only ones since I see people throwing uneaten or partially eaten desserts away all the time. We also find the food portions to be big enough that we are really not hungry after our meal and we are not "share a meal" light eaters. I guess if you're the kind of person who never met a dessert you didn't like you should be fine.

You say you're foodies. There are a couple of tweaks I might suggest.
(1) Unless you have a love for the pre-school characters at Hollywood and Vine, I would choose another restaurant. I have not heard anything good about H&V. The Brown Derby is the best restaurant in DHS, but it's a 2TS signature. You would have to pay OOP for one of your meals. Nothing else shines in DHS. Mama Melrose is OK and Prime Time and Sci Fi have kitch on their side. I guess I would choose MM over the other 2 but personally, I think the Fantasmic package is overrated and I never have a problem finding a seat (although when I go when there are 2 shows).

(2) I find Rose and Crown to be just ... meh. If you visit the pub part and get the same vibe. You are already going to my 2 favorite World Showcase restaurants (Teppan Edo & Chefs). What about Coral Reef? The food is good (the steak is excellent) and the view is fantastic.

 

[supersnoop]

So it all comes down to whether you would be ordering drinks and dessert while paying out of pocket. That's how all these discussions go. From the "That's way too much food!" side of the camp, I can easily see how the plan is a rip-off. Then again, even if the plan were 20 bucks a day per person, you could still beat it if you carry around a flask of rain water and a satchel full of MRE's.

It's all about finding your line. I know if I told the wife that in addition to having eat quick service, which she's not fond of to begin with, she has to have a water and skip dessert, when we get home she'll be turning our house into a "haunted mansion". So: dining plan.

So, I'm not in the "that's way too much food" camp. But even when you compare the menu price for what you get with the dining plan, it doesn't even make sense. Even if you order the most expensive thing on the menu, sometimes it still doesn't reach the price of just buying the same exact items.
Unless you have kids (ages 3-9) and do character meals, in which case a single trip to Akershus will make the whole plan worthwhile.

Also, at most of the table service restaurants, the entrees are all pretty generic, while the appetizers are the restaurant's signature items. With my wife and daughter, we tend to order two apps and one entree or one app and two entrees and pass them around. The apps are less expensive, better quality, and better tasting.

On my last trip, the dining plan would have cost me $2,200. The way we ate, we wouldn't have had enough credits for our meals and would have paid three out of pocked. That included three signatures. My total out of pocked was $1,400. And we ordered whatever we wanted, including alcoholic beverages.

 

[QueenBeeMB]

It's been a while since I ate at DLR and I probably didn't eat desserts at the QS locations. I want make clear that the desserts at the TS locations in WDW are really great. If you are a sweets person the Almond Crusted Cheesecake at Narcoossee's is to die for! I have been known to stop at the bar for a cheesecake and glass of red wine. The QS desserts leave a lot to be desired. For instance, the Flame Tree mousses are just pasty and nasty (IMO). Not worth either the money or the calories.

The only QS dessert that I found to be worthwhile are the specialty cupcakes (they are good!) and the occasional ice cream bar. I guess that our family may just be fussy but we're not the only ones since I see people throwing uneaten or partially eaten desserts away all the time. We also find the food portions to be big enough that we are really not hungry after our meal and we are not "share a meal" light eaters. I guess if you're the kind of person who never met a dessert you didn't like you should be fine.

You say you're foodies. There are a couple of tweaks I might suggest.
(1) Unless you have a love for the pre-school characters at Hollywood and Vine, I would choose another restaurant. I have not heard anything good about H&V. The Brown Derby is the best restaurant in DHS, but it's a 2TS signature. You would have to pay OOP for one of your meals. Nothing else shines in DHS. Mama Melrose is OK and Prime Time and Sci Fi have kitch on their side. I guess I would choose MM over the other 2 but personally, I think the Fantasmic package is overrated and I never have a problem finding a seat (although when I go when there are 2 shows).

(2) I find Rose and Crown to be just ... meh. If you visit the pub part and get the same vibe. You are already going to my 2 favorite World Showcase restaurants (Teppan Edo & Chefs). What about Coral Reef? The food is good (the steak is excellent) and the view is fantastic.

So glad you mentioned some of these things !

Desserts: I will eat anything sweet, my DGF might be harder to please but I usually eat my dessert plus the left overs of hers. So we will try it, it we don't like it there is a bit of a learning curve to be expected.

We didn't Choose Brown Derby because we live right by the REAL one. And can eat there whenever we want, so spending 2 credits on the one there. DONT FLAME ME hahahaa

I originally had MM as the dinner for F! but after some thinking my DGF thought she would like a buffet better. If it is really that bad, I will just move it back to MM and tell her tough luck! But I do want to keep the package as we only have 1 shot to see F! with out commando style touring. And it's a MUST do for me as it is my favorite here at DLR, so I can't wait to see the WDW version.

Rose and Crown was again her choice, she is a home brewer and loves a good beer so she was hoping to get some good dark beer here. If that is not the case we can switch it. I had an ADR at Coral Reef and just removed it the other day because I heard horror stories of the food quality from a handful of people and it honestly scared me. I don't want small portions, and I don't want bad seafood. We live in a port city and have fresh sea food off the boats daily, I cannot do bad seafood.

I'll keep everything in mind about the desserts while we are there, and it might turn out that when we don't do the DDP when we have to pay for the whole thing rather than just the upgrade from Free Dining.

 

[QueenBeeMB]

Your break-even should be $120/day ($60 per person). You're over that on two days, but you doubled up on counter service meals those two days. You might need to double-check your math. You have a $30 entree at Flame Tree in there.

The 30.00 entree is actually a formula built into the sheet
so each entry is 2 entrees, 2 drinks, and 2 desserts. Thats why it looks wrong.

 

[supersnoop]

The 30.00 entree is actually a formula built into the sheet
so each entry is 2 entrees, 2 drinks, and 2 desserts. Thats why it looks wrong.

This one doesn't match your other entries. When I grab all the numbers, your total doesn't match up, and you're missing two snack credits.

Flame Tree
30.38 1 QS
7.98 1 QS
6.38
44.74

 

[lam0037]

So glad you mentioned some of these things ! Desserts: I will eat anything sweet, my DGF might be harder to please but I usually eat my dessert plus the left overs of hers. So we will try it, it we don't like it there is a bit of a learning curve to be expected. We didn't Choose Brown Derby because we live right by the REAL one. And can eat there whenever we want, so spending 2 credits on the one there. DONT FLAME ME hahahaa I originally had MM as the dinner for F! but after some thinking my DGF thought she would like a buffet better. If it is really that bad, I will just move it back to MM and tell her tough luck! But I do want to keep the package as we only have 1 shot to see F! with out commando style touring. And it's a MUST do for me as it is my favorite here at DLR, so I can't wait to see the WDW version. Rose and Crown was again her choice, she is a home brewer and loves a good beer so she was hoping to get some good dark beer here. If that is not the case we can switch it. I had an ADR at Coral Reef and just removed it the other day because I heard horror stories of the food quality from a handful of people and it honestly scared me. I don't want small portions, and I don't want bad seafood. We live in a port city and have fresh sea food off the boats daily, I cannot do bad seafood. I'll keep everything in mind about the desserts while we are there, and it might turn out that when we don't do the DDP when we have to pay for the whole thing rather than just the upgrade from Free Dining.

Honestly, there are so many better options in Epcot than rose and crown and coral reef in my opinion. You can always just go into the pub part for beers or eat somewhere than go for drinks and dessert. La hacienda is a favorite, teppan edo and Tokyo dining are good, like chefs de France as well but you already have those

MM is so much better for F! A buffet may give you more options but MM food is better by far. I think if you explain it as a lot of mediocre food vs smaller selection of good food she might change her mind.

Oh maybe Biergarten at Epcot? We're looking into it for our trip.

 

[SydneyFalco]

So, I'm not in the "that's way too much food" camp. But even when you compare the menu price for what you get with the dining plan, it doesn't even make sense.

Also, at most of the table service restaurants, the entrees are all pretty generic, while the appetizers are the restaurant's signature items. With my wife and daughter, we tend to order two apps and one entree or one app and two entrees and pass them around. The apps are less expensive, better quality, and better tasting.

I completely agree with you about appetizers being better than entrees, but while you might not feel you're in the "that's way too much food" camp, in the next paragraph you're still tailoring your dining experience from standard practice. I come from a family of folks who'd blush to the tips of their ears to try and get away with ordering appetizers for their entrees, so the idea with them would be a non-starter (pardon the pun!) I don't doubt the wisdom of your approach, but for people who are stuck in conventional ordering mode, I don't see that you've exactly discredited the plan (hey, another pun! Credit? Plan?)

 

[MrInfinity]

So, I'm not in the "that's way too much food" camp. But even when you compare the menu price for what you get with the dining plan, it doesn't even make sense. Even if you order the most expensive thing on the menu, sometimes it still doesn't reach the price of just buying the same exact items.

What doesn't make sense? It's paying a fixed price for variable priced foods. Obviously if you'd tend to eat more expensive foods that are covered by the plan, then it'll be good. If you don't eat more expensive foods, or don't want a drink w each meal or wouldn't use your resort mugs then it's not a good deal. It's going to vary for each party.

On my last trip it saved a lot... but our 7 points were spent on expensive meals (bybbq x 2, galactic dine x 2, akershus, chef mickey, biergarten). These were all fixed high-price places. I did a spreadsheet, detailed out the value per point of all our restaurants. The rest of the restaurants were cheaper. (Plaza, Yak, Be Our Guest, etc).

So really you just have to do the math.

Also, at most of the table service restaurants, the entrees are all pretty generic, while the appetizers are the restaurant's signature items. With my wife and daughter, we tend to order two apps and one entree or one app and two entrees and pass them around. The apps are less expensive, better quality, and better tasting.

Well then your eating habits are not tailored to make the DDP a good value for you. Doesn't mean they don't make sense in general or for ppl who do have kids and/or are eating at the higher cost character meals.

As you can see w the meals I used the DDP on, the DDP did not restrict my choices of food one bit. Every one of them was at a place where you eat what you want, and had a higher than normal food cost due to special entertainment. Other places we paid cash. At Y&Y we split a bunch of adult entrees which was way better than the junk on the kids menu (really you can't get a simple sweet and sour chicken on the kids menu there you have to get chicken nuggets and fries?) so we just got what we wanted. Likewise at the other TS restaurants. DDP saved us some. Like $150, which was about 10%. Most ppl won't get this result but w the right mix of restaurants and ages it can save a family money.

 

[supersnoop]

What doesn't make sense? It's paying a fixed price for variable priced foods. Obviously if you'd tend to eat more expensive foods that are covered by the plan, then it'll be good. If you don't eat more expensive foods, or don't want a drink w each meal or wouldn't use your resort mugs then it's not a good deal. It's going to vary for each party.

On my last trip it saved a lot... but our 7 points were spent on expensive meals (bybbq x 2, galactic dine x 2, akershus, chef mickey, biergarten). These were all fixed high-price places. I did a spreadsheet, detailed out the value per point of all our restaurants. The rest of the restaurants were cheaper. (Plaza, Yak, Be Our Guest, etc).

So really you just have to do the math.



Well then your eating habits are not tailored to make the DDP a good value for you. Doesn't mean they don't make sense in general or for ppl who do have kids and/or are eating at the higher cost character meals.

As you can see w the meals I used the DDP on, the DDP did not restrict my choices of food one bit. Every one of them was at a place where you eat what you want, and had a higher than normal food cost due to special entertainment. Other places we paid cash. At Y&Y we split a bunch of adult entrees which was way better than the junk on the kids menu (really you can't get a simple sweet and sour chicken on the kids menu there you have to get chicken nuggets and fries?) so we just got what we wanted. Likewise at the other TS restaurants. DDP saved us some. Like $150, which was about 10%. Most ppl won't get this result but w the right mix of restaurants and ages it can save a family money.

You have two kids at the children's price. I have, and will continue to recommend the dining plan for people with qualifying children. However, for adults, that bybbq cost you two credits for a $57 meal. Will you make up the dining plan cost difference of $63 with the other two counter services and two snacks? Best case, that's woth $45; you've just spent at least $20 more than you would have otherwise by purchasing the dining plan. But for kids, when you've only paid $18 per day, using two credits for bybbq at $34, you're getting two counter service meals and two snacks for $2. Kids make out like bandits. Adults (almost) never receive full value. Akershus is $50, Chef Mickey is $45, and Biergarten is $40. As an adult, you probably received more value on the dining plan on your Akershus day, and maybe Chef Mickey. The other 5 days, again, as an adult, you didn't get your money's worth.

My point, to be clear, is that, at the adult price of the dining plan, you'll only "save" money if you eat every meal at Akershus and get the half chicken and rib platter for counter service every day. Even if you order exactly what the dining plan provides, which, to be honest, most people wouldn't and many don't even when they should, you're still upside on the adult price.

 

[MrInfinity]

However, for adults, that bybbq cost you two credits for a $57 meal.

Yeah the ByBBQ was the least cost effective of those we used the plan on, but still better than those we didn't use it on.

My point, to be clear, is that, at the adult price of the dining plan, you'll only "save" money if you eat every meal at Akershus and get the half chicken and rib platter for counter service every day. Even if you order exactly what the dining plan provides, which, to be honest, most people wouldn't and many don't even when they should, you're still upside on the adult price.

Yeah I'll agree there. Disney is clearly targeting families w the DDP. Then again if it was just my wife and I going, I don't think I'd want the plan. We wouldn't be doing character meals, and we'd be eating more like you... appetizers, getting bits here and there. With a family tho, sitting down for a meal is a good break to gather the kids, reset, etc. And it's hard to skate a day of food snacking with kids.

$63:
Random character meal: $36. Typical counter service: $13. Snack: $4.
That's $53. It's short. Factor in the mugs? Desserts at CS? It's gonna be close, no better.

That's w a $36 meal every day. Akershus is more (approx. $43) but most are closer to low $30's than upper $30's.

I haven't followed the restaurant prices since the hike. We got our DDP for $58/$20, before the recent hike to $63... but I also anticipated that restaurant and character prices would follow w their own 10% hike to keep the value there. Have they? My prices may be out of date...