DDP needs an overhaul - how about a "credit" system?

That so many people state they would never go without one of the dining plans, or cannot imagine how they could afford to go without one, etc., is the crowning glory of Disney's success in selling the plans.
People sincerely believe it too. They really cannot imagine going OOP, and most discussions presume the DDP.
People are hooked to it like heroin. They rationalize it different ways--"It's already paid for", "I don't have to worry about how much I am spending", "It makes it easier to budget the trip", etc, etc. They are completely and utterly brainwashed and hooked.
The key is the desired experiences. Many people expect a certain level of experience on their trip, and this is what they may not be able to afford without a dining plan. This is likely a reason behind these guests not having a desire to go without one.

Personally, I choose to go on DxDDP because it works for me. Sure, I'm spending an additional $350 over what I might get if I were going OOP (yeah, I did the math, lots of it), but I'm gaining roughly $550 in value. That additional $350 is worth it to me to have the higher experience that I want for my trip. I could also buy PB&J and bread from Wal-Mart and just eat that all week, saving hundreds of dollars, but again, that's not what I'm looking to get out of this trip. I'm going in with a certain set of things I want to do, and this happens to be the most economical and convenient way to do them.

Now, I do realize that they aren't perfect, and they certainly don't fit every situation, which is absolutely fine. If they don't fit, the OOP (and potentially TiW) routes are still perfectly valid. The plans are an option, not a requirement.
 
The key is the desired experiences. Many people expect a certain level of experience on their trip, and this is what they may not be able to afford without a dining plan. This is likely a reason behind these guests not having a desire to go without one.

Personally, I choose to go on DxDDP because it works for me. Sure, I'm spending an additional $350 over what I might get if I were going OOP (yeah, I did the math, lots of it), but I'm gaining roughly $550 in value. That additional $350 is worth it to me to have the higher experience that I want for my trip. I could also buy PB&J and bread from Wal-Mart and just eat that all week, saving hundreds of dollars, but again, that's not what I'm looking to get out of this trip. I'm going in with a certain set of things I want to do, and this happens to be the most economical and convenient way to do them.

Now, I do realize that they aren't perfect, and they certainly don't fit every situation, which is absolutely fine. If they don't fit, the OOP (and potentially TiW) routes are still perfectly valid. The plans are an option, not a requirement.

The value for the dxdp is very different than the other 2 plans. It is the only plan that allows savings, with some flexibility. You can skip a couple of credits, skip a couple of desserts, and still save money. That's not really possible on the other plans.
 
That so many people state they would never go without one of the dining plans, or cannot imagine how they could afford to go without one, etc., is the crowning glory of Disney's success in selling the plans.
People sincerely believe it too. They really cannot imagine going OOP, and most discussions presume the DDP.
People are hooked to it like heroin. They rationalize it different ways--"It's already paid for", "I don't have to worry about how much I am spending", "It makes it easier to budget the trip", etc, etc. They are completely and utterly brainwashed and hooked.

I'm not brainwashed. I perfectly well understanding that the times I decide to not get dessert or order the pasta that is cheaper that I may not break even on buying the plan. However that extra money is worth it to be because if we didn't have the plan I would be constantly watching everything I spend. Also if I just budgeted the amount of the plan we would still spend it all because if you give my husband $50 he will spend $50 if you give him $100 he will spend all $100. That is just how he is. He can't hold on to money the only way we can save is if I don't let him have it. So it is much easier for me to spend a bit extra for the convenience of not having to track spending all week to insure that we still have enough budgeted for food on the last day. For some reason my husband can hang on to and budget credits for the week but not real money.
 
Does anyone remember the old voucher system? You could buy as many or as few as you wanted and it would get you a reduced price on a full meal. I miss those.
 

The value for the dxdp is very different than the other 2 plans. It is the only plan that allows savings, with some flexibility. You can skip a couple of credits, skip a couple of desserts, and still save money. That's not really possible on the other plans.
The thing is, mathematically, this is untrue.

DDP DOES allow for some savings even without resorting to the extreme (most expensive items at most expensive restaurants). Sure, it's not at least as DxDDP, but the time investment is also much lower. So long as your TS meal hits around $30 for Entree, Dessert, Drink, and Tax, and your CS meal is around $12 for the same, you're going to come out ahead. A $30 2 course meal is not stretching the limits of believability at the average TS place in Disney.

I haven't done the math on the QSDP at all, but at ~$29 per 2 CS meals ($35 minus $3 per snack), that's not too difficult either. That averages out to $14.50 per meal (after tax). My 1 CS meal last year was just over $19 by itself (Cantina de San Angel). Of course, I only know the price of this as it was rung up wrong and was my first time using DxDDP, so it showed 0 credits :p (and I was hungry!) I also don't put forth that this is representative of the CS menus in general, but I'd bet that most of them, ordering relatively normal stuff, should be able to at least average to above that $14.50 mark (for Entree/Combo, Drink, Dessert, Tax).

So, I'll certainly agree that neither offer great savings, and if you're going to struggle to eat the way they suggest, it's best to not pick them up, but they CAN and DO allow for savings, and to say otherwise is simply wrong.
 
I feel the DDP is Disney's way of keeping you on site and keeping you eating in their restaurants. Its not so that their guests can save money. Sure, some of us do if we know how to maximize the plan. But how many people go to Disney, get the plan and have many credits left?? I think a lot. You hear about it all the time.

If you have the plan, you aren't going to go to Universal and eat at their restaurants and "waste" your prepaid food.

I'm also not sold on the fact that people need to get the DDP to have the "experience" they want and couldn't get that without the plan. DH and I went last August and paid OOP completely. We had table service meals for every meal. We ordered what we wanted and didn't try to just get the cheapest thing. In the end we spent the same amount as the DDP would have cost us. The benefit to us was we weren't restricted by the plan. We didn't have to get a dessert to get the value out of the plan. We didn't have to eat CS because that is what the plan dictated. And what if one of us got sick during the trip? You can't get a refund on the dining plan. At least paying OOP you aren't stuck if someone gets sick.

To the OP, your idea is definitely feasible. Its called paying OOP.

Maggie
 
The thing is, mathematically, this is untrue.

DDP DOES allow for some savings even without resorting to the extreme (most expensive items at most expensive restaurants). Sure, it's not at least as DxDDP, but the time investment is also much lower. So long as your TS meal hits around $30 for Entree, Dessert, Drink, and Tax, and your CS meal is around $12 for the same, you're going to come out ahead. A $30 2 course meal is not stretching the limits of believability at the average TS place in Disney.

I haven't done the math on the QSDP at all, but at ~$29 per 2 CS meals ($35 minus $3 per snack), that's not too difficult either. That averages out to $14.50 per meal (after tax). My 1 CS meal last year was just over $19 by itself (Cantina de San Angel). Of course, I only know the price of this as it was rung up wrong and was my first time using DxDDP, so it showed 0 credits :p (and I was hungry!) I also don't put forth that this is representative of the CS menus in general, but I'd bet that most of them, ordering relatively normal stuff, should be able to at least average to above that $14.50 mark (for Entree/Combo, Drink, Dessert, Tax).

So, I'll certainly agree that neither offer great savings, and if you're going to struggle to eat the way they suggest, it's best to not pick them up, but they CAN and DO allow for savings, and to say otherwise is simply wrong.

I did not deny that some savings are possible if you stick to the plan.
But your example under the ddp would be a loser under holiday season pricing, where I believe the ddp is $47. 30 for ts, 12 for cs, and 3 for snack would be a $2 loser.

But my point was -- to get any savings from the ddp, you need to really use virtually all of your entitlements and really avoid cheap meals.
If you decide to skip 1 ts, and 1 or 2 desserts during a vacation, any savings will be wiped out.
On the dxdp, you can skip a couple credits, skip some snacks and desserts, and still end up ahead.
 
I feel the DDP is Disney's way of keeping you on site and keeping you eating in their restaurants. Its not so that their guests can save money. Sure, some of us do if we know how to maximize the plan. But how many people go to Disney, get the plan and have many credits left?? I think a lot. You hear about it all the time.

If you have the plan, you aren't going to go to Universal and eat at their restaurants and "waste" your prepaid food.

I'm also not sold on the fact that people need to get the DDP to have the "experience" they want and couldn't get that without the plan. DH and I went last August and paid OOP completely. We had table service meals for every meal. We ordered what we wanted and didn't try to just get the cheapest thing. In the end we spent the same amount as the DDP would have cost us. The benefit to us was we weren't restricted by the plan. We didn't have to get a dessert to get the value out of the plan. We didn't have to eat CS because that is what the plan dictated. And what if one of us got sick during the trip? You can't get a refund on the dining plan. At least paying OOP you aren't stuck if someone gets sick.

To the OP, your idea is definitely feasible. Its called paying OOP.

Maggie
On the first bit, I totally agree. The dining plans were create to increase volume at the Disney restaurants. We see the results of this with the ADR stuff that happens. It's certainly working well for Disney, and I certainly can't fault them for that. It's good business to always have your restaurants as full as possible.

I think you misconstrued my point about experience though. I'm not saying that a dining plan is required to have a positive TS dining experience in Disney. Not by any means. I'm saying that for some that desire an experience that is roughly the same as the dining plans are structured, using the appropriate dining plan can give them that experience where they otherwise may not be able to (whether they can't afford the extra, or simply aren't willing to spend any extra). Now, this only works if your ideal experience meshes with one of the plans. If it doesn't, then it's not going to work for you.

Using myself as an example again, my "ideal" dining itinerary on this next trip would have cost me roughly $1200 if I paid OOP. Using a dining plan, it's only costing me roughly $1000 (this is including tax on the OOP stuff, and tips for both). My less than ideal plan, that I would have done had a dining plan not been available, would have been around $650. Using a dining plan allowed me to have my ideal experience at a lesser cost (+$350 instead of +$550). The key here is that the rigidity of the plan (granted, Dx is considerably more flexible) doesn't matter, as it was what I wanted in the first place.

As far as the missing out due to illness, stuff happens. If you're more susceptible to bugs picked up while traveling, then a structured pre-paid plan is likely not the best choice. Otherwise, 9 times out of 10 you can make it up later in the trip. For that 1 other time, it's a risk, and if you're not willing to take that risk, then there are other options available.

I did not deny that some savings are possible if you stick to the plan.
But your example under the ddp would be a loser under holiday season pricing, where I believe the ddp is $47. 30 for ts, 12 for cs, and 3 for snack would be a $2 loser.

But my point was -- to get any savings from the ddp, you need to really use virtually all of your entitlements and really avoid cheap meals.
If you decide to skip 1 ts, and 1 or 2 desserts during a vacation, any savings will be wiped out.
On the dxdp, you can skip a couple credits, skip some snacks and desserts, and still end up ahead.
It's still not as difficult as you're making it out to be. +$2 per night of the DDP means that your TS "target" goes up by $2 to $32 (there's a lot of math behind this that I won't go into here, but it's generally accepted that the cost per CS credit is relatively static). Keep in mind that all (or most at least) of the fixed price meals raise by $4-$5, so doing just one of those will eat up 2 nights worth of DDP holiday pricing.

Your point of "it's more difficult" is different from what you said, which may have been why I didn't understand...

The value for the dxdp is very different than the other 2 plans. It is the only plan that allows savings, with some flexibility.

... or maybe I misunderstood. It's the only plan that allows savings with some flexibility? Or it's the only plan that allow savings and has some flexibility? Two entirely different things, and I read it as the 2nd one while it looks like you have meant the first one.

So with that said, I do agree that the other plans are far more rigid. There's still some flexibility there, and (on a longer stay, 7+ days) leaving 1 TS or 1 CS credit isn't going to kill all the savings, so long as it averages out in the end, but yes, it's more difficult to make them come out ahead.

However, the kicker (as mentioned above) is that most of the time, the rigidity simply doesn't matter (to those who it works for). If my desire is to dine in the same manner than even the most rigid of plans requires, then the fact that it is so rigid doesn't apply. For example, there could be a plan out there that only allows me to eat a burger, fries, Sprite, and a shake. If my goal was to eat a burger, fries, Sprite, and a shake, it wouldn't matter what the limits are. Now if I wanted soup, salad, and water, then it certainly wouldn't be a plan that works for me.

I do get that it doesn't work for everyone, and you will never hear me claim that (in fact, quite the opposite, as it's always my first questions when people ask about the dining plans in general). I also venture to think that it works for far less than people who get it, as they try and shoehorn their desires into the plans and then get annoyed when it doesn't work. There is a sizable segment of the population where the assorted plans do work though, and do offer some benefit. There is no denying that.
 
Cafeen said:
It's still not as difficult as you're making it out to be. +$2 per night of the DDP means that your TS "target" goes up by $2 to $32 (there's a lot of math behind this that I won't go into here, but it's generally accepted that the cost per CS credit is relatively static). Keep in mind that all (or most at least) of the fixed price meals raise by $4-$5, so doing just one of those will eat up 2 nights worth of DDP holiday pricing.

Your point of "it's more difficult" is different from what you said, which may have been why I didn't understand...


... or maybe I misunderstood. It's the only plan that allows savings with some flexibility? Or it's the only plan that allow savings and has some flexibility? Two entirely different things, and I read it as the 2nd one while it looks like you have meant the first one.

So with that said, I do agree that the other plans are far more rigid. There's still some flexibility there, and (on a longer stay, 7+ days) leaving 1 TS or 1 CS credit isn't going to kill all the savings, so long as it averages out in the end, but yes, it's more difficult to make them come out ahead.

However, the kicker (as mentioned above) is that most of the time, the rigidity simply doesn't matter (to those who it works for). If my desire is to dine in the same manner than even the most rigid of plans requires, then the fact that it is so rigid doesn't apply. For example, there could be a plan out there that only allows me to eat a burger, fries, Sprite, and a shake. If my goal was to eat a burger, fries, Sprite, and a shake, it wouldn't matter what the limits are. Now if I wanted soup, salad, and water, then it certainly wouldn't be a plan that works for me.

I do get that it doesn't work for everyone, and you will never hear me claim that (in fact, quite the opposite, as it's always my first questions when people ask about the dining plans in general). I also venture to think that it works for far less than people who get it, as they try and shoehorn their desires into the plans and then get annoyed when it doesn't work. There is a sizable segment of the population where the assorted plans do work though, and do offer some benefit. There is no denying that.

I am saying only the DxDP allows for real savings, even with the flexibility to skip some entitlements.

Going to your illustration -- yes, CS prices are pretty stable at about $12-15... But what if you decide to use your CS for breakfast? Than the value is more like $8-$10.
And yes, holiday pricing does reflect that buffet prices go up as well, but what if you don't eat at buffets?

I'm not saying it is hard to save money under TS. But it is also very easy to lose money. Skip 1 TS during your trip, you have probably lost money. Skip half your desserts, you will probably lose money. Use your CS for breakfast instead of lunch, you will probably lose money. Use TS credits for breakfast, you will probably lose money. Use most of your TS credits at Beaches & Cream, Plaza restaurant, and other similar venues, and you will probably lose money.

To save money on the regular ddp, you basically must avoid cheaper dining options, must use all your credits, must use almost all the credits for lunch/dinner, and you must not skip desserts or snacks. Follow all those rules, and you might save and average of $5-$10. Break those rules, and savings disappear quickly.
 
BUT have even one child on the DDP and you are even more flexible in your "savings" especially if you like the buffets. I figure we'll save about $70 on my son's meals in September. And yes, we would have bought the kids meals at CS and non-buffet TS because we also have an under 3 and our standard practice is to buy one kid's meal for them to split and it usually works out perfectly. So I figure we'll at least break even and I'm sure save.

And for what it's worth, I totally get those who see value in pre-paying. For me it's just the social habits of my family. We're traveling with my parents and they pinch the pennies. Growing up it would have never crossed my mind to order a soda in a restaurant, we only drank water unless another beverage was included in the price with very, very few exceptions and NEVER ordered dessert and the top 1/3 priced menu items, just don't even look at them. My DH's family is not that way, they almost always order soda at the restaurants and we've adopted that habit now. They also are less choosy on price and sometimes get desserts. However, when dining with my parents, I tend to revert back to the water and looking carefully at prices even thought I don't want to because I feel like they think I'm wasting my money so I feel guilty. It's silly, but that's the family dynamic. And frankly, even if I end up losing $20 or more, it's more than worth it to order what I want, drink what I want etc. without the "guilty" feeling. I think they love it for that same reason. It's a bit of indulgence to some extent.
 
I would bet money the real reason that Disney offers the dining plan is to get people to pay for all their food up-front, therefore, keeping those people from leaving Disney property for a meal. Just like Magical Express, in reality, we pay for it, it is not free, but it is a great service not only for guest, but for Disney, it keeps guest on Disney property, therefore spending more money at Disney. We get the plan because I like having all our our meals paid for upfront. I am married to the king of cheap, and he would be in a bad mood all day every time we spent 50 bucks for a counter service meal to feed a family of three. I doubt Disney is going to change their dining plan anytime soon. We may save some money on it, but in the end, they are the ones taking it to the bank. Disney is cashing in on money that may have not been spent, or may have been spent elsewhere.

One change I would like to see on the basic dining plan is to lose the desert for CS meals, and add an extra snack. Also, give each person the option of having a desert, or an appt. I would pay extra for that! Of course Disney will never do that because they want people to pay extra for that appt., and only take a few bites, or even decline desert. And decline the cookie from the CS meal all together.
 
That so many people state they would never go without one of the dining plans, or cannot imagine how they could afford to go without one, etc., is the crowning glory of Disney's success in selling the plans.
People sincerely believe it too. They really cannot imagine going OOP, and most discussions presume the DDP.
People are hooked to it like heroin. They rationalize it different ways--"It's already paid for", "I don't have to worry about how much I am spending", "It makes it easier to budget the trip", etc, etc. They are completely and utterly brainwashed and hooked.

Hooked? Maybe. Brainwashed? Not even close.

I'm a well-educated adult who knows full well that Disney isn't going to offer the public something that isn't also in their own best interests. Just because a person likes one of the dining plans for WHATEVER reason -- convenience, cost, savings -- doesn't mean they're brainwashed into thinking the plan is something it's not.

For me, the DxDP works for our lifestyle. We're adults travelling without kids, we like nice restaurants and dislike counter service. In looking over the menus of the restaurants we've chosen, it appears that we'll definitely save money, but that's not my reason for choosing it. I like the convenience, I like the restaurants I can choose from, and I'm certainly not naive enough to think that Disney is providing the plan for my convenience or savings!
 
I am saying only the DxDP allows for real savings, even with the flexibility to skip some entitlements.

Going to your illustration -- yes, CS prices are pretty stable at about $12-15... But what if you decide to use your CS for breakfast? Than the value is more like $8-$10.
And yes, holiday pricing does reflect that buffet prices go up as well, but what if you don't eat at buffets?

I'm not saying it is hard to save money under TS. But it is also very easy to lose money. Skip 1 TS during your trip, you have probably lost money. Skip half your desserts, you will probably lose money. Use your CS for breakfast instead of lunch, you will probably lose money. Use TS credits for breakfast, you will probably lose money. Use most of your TS credits at Beaches & Cream, Plaza restaurant, and other similar venues, and you will probably lose money.

To save money on the regular ddp, you basically must avoid cheaper dining options, must use all your credits, must use almost all the credits for lunch/dinner, and you must not skip desserts or snacks. Follow all those rules, and you might save and average of $5-$10. Break those rules, and savings disappear quickly.

I would agree. The dxdp with wine add on cost my family $248 a day. Our cheapest dinner was 221. We also at a 1ts lunch which usually ran between 100-125. So in our case there was savings. I don't normally eat dessert twice a day, but I enjoyed having a couple of bites. The desserts at most of the restaurants were really delicious. All the snacks are hard to use, but they are great for mufins in the morning and water in the parks. Also great for the long plane ride home. If I wanted to save money I would make my own breakfast, split cs meals, buy snacks at walmart. Thats not the kind of vacation I want. I do that stuff at home so I can splurge on vacation. I can't vouch for the regular ddp. I just know it would not work for us.
 


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