DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

Yes, that's why proof of the disability would be needed when filing a complaint. The person could not just say an accommodation was not reasonable. Their paperwork proving the disability would include why the proposed accommodation was not suitable.
I figured going to the experts might clear up some of the "Disney has to do this" or "Disney cannot do that". confusion of which I have been guilty.

“The experts” specifically told you they cannot give legal advice but you reported it here as legal advice, some of which was clearly wrong— for example, there is no such thing as filing a complaint with the ADA.

 

[OurBigTrip]

K, I called the ADA because I figured that agency could give me answers. We are not experts and can debate for a quadrillion yrs but our thoughts are not laws.
The woman I spoke to told me that Disney cannot make people buy an accommodation, ie, Genie+. Now, CMs are not making people buy Genie+, it's a suggestion. She did say it needs to be looked into and that if people are having problems with denials, they should file a complaint. Disney only has to provide reasonable accommodations which I think we all know. No accommodation is not reasonable. So, for example, someone goes to a ride CM and is not given a return to the line time and the guest feels this is not reasonable because of their condition, file a claim with the ADA. Note: this will not help cheaters because you have to prove that you're disabled if the ADA claim moves up the ladder.
My other question was about the class action thing you have to agree to and she said she can't answer legal questions.

You called the Americans with Disabilities Act? I mean, that’s what ADA stands for…it’s a law, not an agency/

So who did you call?

 

[Disneychick75]

“The experts” specifically told you they cannot give legal advice but you reported it here as legal advice, some of which was clearly wrong— for example, there is no such thing as filing a complaint with the ADA.

Okay, file a complaint with the Disability Rights Section (DRS) in the Department of Justice , not the ADA. The woman may have thought I knew this. I am not giving legal advice. I repeated what the woman told me. Now, off th edit my post.

 

[Disneychick75]

You called the Americans with Disabilities Act? I mean, that’s what ADA stands for…it’s a law, not an agency/

So who did you call?

Really? I called the Agency. Good grief

 

[lanejudy]

there is no such thing as filing a complaint with the ADA.

You called the Americans with Disabilities Act? I mean, that’s what ADA stands for…it’s a law, not an agency/

So who did you call?

ADA.gov is part of the US Department of Justice. There is an 800 number for information and they do accept complaints. Who handles those complaints...? I suggest complaining directly to WDW first, preferably why still onsite and give concrete examples of why the offered accommodation doesn't work. I can't guarantee it will get the desired result, but it's a start. And could be important to show in a more formal complaint that you did attempt to rectify the situation at the time.

But in the last sentence, I would argue the theme park industry has it for a standard actually for accomodations. Six Flags, Universal, SeaWorld, even Dollywood all have 'return to the line by ____'.

But not at Disney. Disney has other accommodations typically offered. Return to Queue, as someone posted earlier, is what Disney provides sometimes for wheelchairs or other situations. Not a standard offering though. That's my point. If you are requesting something not offered, because the park (Disney) offers something with a different name, the wording can be important.

Yes, that's why proof of the disability would be needed when filing a complaint. The person could not just say an accommodation was not reasonable. Their paperwork proving the disability would include why the proposed accommodation was not suitable.

That all depends on whatever paperwork you want to share or have available to share. Proof of disability may or may not be the biggest issue. Proving that the offered accommodation doesn't meet the need will be key. If a medical providers document states that clearly, it may be acceptable; however since the medical provider was not present at the parks it may not if the complainant is requested to show why the offered accommodation wasn't "reasonable." A doctor's note that says something like "Joe is diagnosed with XYZ and needs handicapped accommodations at the park" [paraphrasing what someone earlier in this post shared as their actual letter], won't do it.

I'm not trying to poke holes, just pointing out that what seems like a simple "make a complaint" won't actually go far if it's not complete with details of the "why." Not necessarily the details of "why I'm disabled" but the details of "why the accommodation isn't reasonable for me."

 

[Unity]

But not at Disney. Disney has other accommodations typically offered. Return to Queue, as someone posted earlier, is what Disney provides sometimes for wheelchairs or other situations. Not a standard offering though. That's my point. If you are requesting something not offered, because the park (Disney) offers something with a different name, the wording can be important

Ah I gotcha! I was thinking in a broader sense of the terms.

 

[SueM in MN]

K, I called the ADA because I figured that agency could give me answers. We are not experts and can debate for a quadrillion yrs but our thoughts are not laws.
The woman I spoke to told me that Disney cannot make people buy an accommodation, ie, Genie+. Now, CMs are not making people buy Genie+, it's a suggestion. She did say it needs to be looked into and that if people are having problems with denials, they should file a complaint. Disney only has to provide reasonable accommodations which I think we all know. No accommodation is not reasonable. So, for example, someone goes to a ride CM and is not given a return to the line time and the guest feels this is not reasonable because of their condition, file a claim with the ADA. Note: this will not help cheaters because you have to prove that you're disabled if the ADA claim moves up the ladder.
My other question was about the class action thing you have to agree to and she said she can't answer legal questions.

When people hear "Genie" they automatically go to "Genie+".

There is a FREE portion of GENIE is a free planning tool. It includes things like projected wait times to go on an attraction with the shortest wait. It's also possible to make a 'wish list' of attractions and it will come up with an itinerary to do those.
CMs have mentioned using Genie to me.
Because I knew about GENIE, I knew they were talking about the free one, not saying I needed to pay for it. I'm sure a lot of people don't know about the free planning version, so would think they were being told to purchase Genie +

If Genie is mentioned to people, they need to clarify what is meant.

 

[nalababybear]

This is my youngest daughter.

We've experienced people saying


People make judgements based on what they think disabled people should look like, act, do or be able to do.
People who say things like that in real life and in this thread hurt real people.

Nice wheels.

For better or worse, our son is oblivious to such comments and snipes. For sure it doesn't go unnoticed by us.

We engage folk in hopes it is ignorance and uneducated that is the source of their comments.

If they are truly trolls and folk that just don't care to be there, that's on them and we'll call a spade a spade.

Thankfully most reasonable people are just that -- reasonable.

Disney, regardless of recent changes that may affect us directly, remains a very reasonable company. They actually make an effort to listen, respond, and make changes. Many do not.

Engage with Disney. For those that haven't tried, you may be surprised.

 

[OurBigTrip]

ADA.gov is part of the US Department of Justice. There is an 800 number for information and they do accept complaints. Who handles those complaints...? I suggest complaining directly to WDW first, preferably why still onsite and give concrete examples of why the offered accommodation doesn't work. I can't guarantee it will get the desired result, but it's a start. And could be important to show in a more formal complaint that you did attempt to rectify the situation at the time.


But not at Disney. Disney has other accommodations typically offered. Return to Queue, as someone posted earlier, is what Disney provides sometimes for wheelchairs or other situations. Not a standard offering though. That's my point. If you are requesting something not offered, because the park (Disney) offers something with a different name, the wording can be important.



That all depends on whatever paperwork you want to share or have available to share. Proof of disability may or may not be the biggest issue. Proving that the offered accommodation doesn't meet the need will be key. If a medical providers document states that clearly, it may be acceptable; however since the medical provider was not present at the parks it may not if the complainant is requested to show why the offered accommodation wasn't "reasonable." A doctor's note that says something like "Joe is diagnosed with XYZ and needs handicapped accommodations at the park" [paraphrasing what someone earlier in this post shared as their actual letter], won't do it.

I'm not trying to poke holes, just pointing out that what seems like a simple "make a complaint" won't actually go far if it's not complete with details of the "why." Not necessarily the details of "why I'm disabled" but the details of "why the accommodation isn't reasonable for me."

Right, my point is that there is no “ADA agency” to call - if the PP called the DoJ, Inwould thought she would say that rather make up an agency.

 

[Becky Mouse]

Disney has gone on record saying that DAS distribution has tripled in the last 5 years. If the percentage is 8% now, that would put the previous DAS usage percentage somewhere between 2.5-3%.

If you’re saying the current estimate of 8% is too high, then you’re also saying the DAS usage percentage 5 years ago was significantly less than 2.5% which I doubt is accurate.

I think 8% is a low estimate. But let's say you're right about 8%. Most guests don't travel alone. Let's say there are 32,000 guests in one of the parks, and 8% of them qualified for DAS in the old system. That's 2,560 guests. Now let's say, on average, each person who qualified for DAS is traveling with 3 other people. That's another 7,680 guests. That's a total of 10,240 people (2,560 DAS users and 7,680 friends/family). That is 1/3 of all guests in the park!

 

[White_Rabbit18]

I have been following this thread over the last few days so sorry if someone already explained it but did Disney explain why DAS will basically extend it only to people with cognitive disabilities? I think the most icky part is that it feels like there is some tier system of disability/pain/who has it worse.

I don’t get why medical issues are not being taken into account and the answer is basically just to leave the line and get back in when you are feeling better. I am so confused.

Is it because they did a study and discovered that medical needs were that much great than cognitive so they decided to draw a line in the sand there?

BTW: I am asking because I truly don’t get but I don’t hold anything against people who do get the DAS pass still.

 

[Becky Mouse]

I have been following this thread over the last few days so sorry if someone already explained it but did Disney explain why DAS will basically extend it only to people with cognitive disabilities? I think the most icky part is that it feels like there is some tier system of disability/pain/who has it worse.

I don’t get why medical issues are not being taken into account and the answer is basically just to leave the line and get back in when you are feeling better. I am so confused.

Is it because they did a study and discovered that medical needs were that much great than cognitive so they decided to draw a line in the sand there?

BTW: I am asking because I truly don’t get but I don’t hold anything against people who do get the DAS pass still.

I think they basically said DAS is only meant to be an accommodation for people with developmental disabilities like autism, and that people with other disabilities will be accommodated in other, individualized ways that helps meet their needs.

 

[Unity]

What is a common accommodation and what the ADA actually requires are two totally separate things. The law requires reasonable accommodations that do not unduly impact business operations— so as a higher and higher percentage of American theme park goers cannot tolerate lines over 15-20 minutes, what theme parks will be expected to do for each family that falls into that category will change.

(Edited to remove rogue Quote)

I'm not saying it is against guidelines completely. I am agreeing if other options are tried and none are found reasonable, bringing it up to Disney and making a complaint with proof of diagnosis, proof that alternative methods were tried and more, than it should be brought up to the DRS regardless to see if anything will change. If anything, the worst answer that will be given is a no.

I have been following this thread over the last few days so sorry if someone already explained it but did Disney explain why DAS will basically extend it only to people with cognitive disabilities? I think the most icky part is that it feels like there is some tier system of disability/pain/who has it worse.

I don’t get why medical issues are not being taken into account and the answer is basically just to leave the line and get back in when you are feeling better. I am so confused.

Is it because they did a study and discovered that medical needs were that much great than cognitive so they decided to draw a line in the sand there?

BTW: I am asking because I truly don’t get but I don’t hold anything against people who do get the DAS pass still.

It is strange for such a focus on developmental disabilities as I have heard someone being approved for a spinal issue within the new DAS. And I know veterans were approved for disabilities they were not born with [though they may have been mental as well]. These may be outliers however.

Out of curiosity: has anyone else heard of / experienced in the approval process of talking to a cast member and then having a professional also join the call to clarify things? Or was this a one off report I saw?

 

[Disneychick75]

Right, my point is that there is no “ADA agency” to call - if the PP called the DoJ, Inwould thought she would say that rather make up an agency.

Hold up, make up an agency? Below, I've posted a screenshot of my search and the first result. I don't understand why you're implying that I'm making something up. It's insulting.

 

[LoveToDisney]

Sounds like some cast members may also be misinterpreting the party size guidelines. From Facebook:

“I tried to register today…me and 5 minors and before she completely denied me she said it would only be for DAS plus 3, even though I was the only adult. She didn’t care that they were minors and it could not be changed” [end quote]

When I read the post above, I first thought of 5 small children BUT remember a minor is up to age 18. Teens can easily wait while siblings ride with mom and take turns watching little ones (if there were any grade school age). I now understand why the CM said what she did.

 

[White_Rabbit18]

I think they basically said DAS is only meant to be an accommodation for people with developmental disabilities like autism, and that people with other disabilities will be accommodated in other, individualized ways that helps meet their needs.

Thanks for your answer. But reading through this thread it seems like a lot of medical needs won’t be met through leaving and rejoining the line. Plus how would that work if you are traveling individually?

 

[Unity]

“I tried to register today…me and 5 minors and before she completely denied me she said it would only be for DAS plus 3, even though I was the only adult. She didn’t care that they were minors and it could not be changed” [end quote]

When I read the post above, I first thought of 5 small children BUT remember a minor is up to age 18. Teens can easily wait while siblings ride with mom and take turns watching little ones (if there were any grade school age). I now understand why the CM said what she did.

This is true! Even for kids ten and older Disney considers them able to stand in lines alone. I went to Universal Studios the first time in 2011 when I just turned eleven. At the end of the day we ended up in the Marvel area and my dad did one ride of Hulk and was tired out. He let me get in line four more times as it was pretty short. [Even if I was nearly bouncing off the walls and talking to strangers excitedly chattering away like a starling.]

 

[Liquidice]

I get the point of your post. If you feel you've been denied reasonable accommodation, you can make a complaint. Absolutely. However to be taken seriously you should be prepared to share why the offered accommodation (which does not need to be "disability-specific" such as the new Attraction Queue Return) doesn't work, and you may need to show that you at least attempted to make it work. Just saying "nope, not reasonable, I want XYZ instead" may not get traction for the complaint -- except in an obvious case where a blind person is told to drive an ECV. And "return to the line time" isn't a standard option so I don't know why anyone would request it as their accommodation.

According to a post made on another forum by an Operations CM, Return to Queue as this CM calls it is like a DAS 1.0 where the front line CM has the ability to issue a return time for a ride. The CM said it is very limited and that Disney is auditing how many are issued so they can't be "given out like candy". I'll see if I can dig up the post where I quoted what the person said.

 

[Liquidice]

According to a post made on another forum by an Operations CM, Return to Queue as this CM calls it is like a DAS 1.0 where the front line CM has the ability to issue a return time for a ride. The CM said it is very limited and that Disney is auditing how many are issued so they can't be "given out like candy". I'll see if I can dig up the post where I quoted what the person said.

Here it is: https://www.disboards.com/threads/d...l-june-18-2024.3943880/page-252#post-65506876

And the specific paragraph :

If none of these things work, CM's can give out the "return to queue" passes. But CM's have to sign into the podiums or iPads when they are in charge of the scanners or issuing redemptions. And Disney will be heavily auditing when these passes are given out. CM's better have a good reason to give one out and it's been made clear that if they even remotely question how many you are issuing, you will have to explain yourself in a formal meeting/investigation. Basically, CM's aren't going to give these out like candy unless they are stupid. Abd it's not even a good option, cause it's essentially DAS but you have to physically walk to the ride and you are beholden to your pass being based on the posted wait time. And if you are getting tons of these passes all the time, Disney is gonna know and will follow up(tour guides/influencer prevention), because they aren't a DAS alternative. It's a different accommodation.

 

[Disneychick75]

Here it is: https://www.disboards.com/threads/d...l-june-18-2024.3943880/page-252#post-65506876

And the specific paragraph :

Thank you for posting this!