DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

Lots of things. My job is virtually interacting with clients. We are mandated by law (Canada) to do ADA training every single year to make sure we are accommodating those with disabilities. Among the requirements:

-Allow the client to communicate in writing or with a pre-written letter if speaking is difficult for them.
-Accept documentation of your client's disability and ensure that you are following the suggestions of the documentation they provide.
-Recognize the signs of someone with a disability and ask them if you should slow / simplify your speech to accommodate their needs.
-Inform them of their right to have an advocate to help navigate their communication with you.
-If you do not have current accommodations to suit their needs, ask the client how you could adjust your business environment to help accommodate them.
-Offer alternative to a video-based platform if this is not suitable to the client. Alternatives include phone conversation, email or in-person conversations.

From what I hear and have experienced, Disney routinely misses every one of the points above. These are just a few of the many things suggested to us in training. Every business owner in Canada must follow these guidelines. I understand that the U.S. has different requirements for businesses. However, it is clear from recent reports of DAS conversations with CMs that Disney is not following even basic protocol for interacting with the disability community.

Accepting documentation is also known as getting a doctor’s note. People may disagree but this has already been discussed at length. I am firmly in the camp that this is only slightly better than allowing people to self proclaim their needs in terms of ways to ensure further DAS abuse.

I guess Disney could make it more clear that if you need someone to help you that you can have an advocate join your call. I don’t think that they are in any way discouraging this though.

Some of the rest of these suggestions seem a bit petty. Font sizes can be controlled by the user. A guest who is having problems hearing can ask the CM to speak into the microphone or slow down if they can’t understand. Just submitting an email doesn’t allow the CM to probe further into needs, or would dramatically slow down the process if EVERY question requires a non-real time back and forth, especially if emails do not always go to the same CM. In any case they would have to re-familiarize themselves with each case for every single interaction.

This system may not be perfect for everyone but it is doing an admirable job at helping a wide variety of individuals.

 

[mamaofsix]

Accepting documentation is also known as getting a doctor’s note. People may disagree but this has already been discussed at length. I am firmly in the camp that this is only slightly worse than allowing people to self proclaim their needs in terms of ways to ensure further DAS abuse.

I guess Disney could make it more clear that if you need someone to help you that you can have an advocate join your call. I don’t think that they are in any way discouraging this though.

Some of the rest of these suggestions seem a bit petty. Font sizes can be controlled by the user. A guest who is having problems hearing can ask the CM to speak into the microphone or slow down if they can’t understand. Just submitting an email doesn’t allow the CM to probe further into needs, or would dramatically slow down the process if EVERY question requires a non-real time back and forth, especially if emails do not always go to the same CM. In any case they would have to re-familiarize themselves with each case for every single interaction.

This system may not be perfect for everyone but it is doing an admirable job at helping a wide variety of individuals.

Your response suggests you may not fully understand the barriers of someone with a severe disability. My posts were in sympathy with parents who have adult children with difficulty navigating online environments.

No, my nearly adult children do not understand how to increase the font size from their end. Neither do they have the faculties to verbally ask someone to slow their speech down or speak louder. Nor would they know how to ask for an advocate to be present without it being suggested to them. Actually, they wouldn't even be able to follow the website prompts to join the queue for a chat. Their only option is often to have an advocate, or provide a letter that has been written on their behalf, expressing their needs.

When interacting with someone who has a severe developmental disability, most able people recognize the challenges and try to adapt their approach to help them. The unkindness during interviews that has been reported here isn't admirable, in my opinion.

But I've said enough for now and will leave it at that.

 

[mamaofsix]

Official Canadian government websites describing the law in Canada for businesses interfacing with disabilities and accommodations do not support the law as stated above. For example, businesses do have the right to choose which accommodations are offered and are not bound by a health care provider’s recommendations. Very close to what Disney is doing. Not challenging the poster’s training as stated above. Sometimes training material can be wrong or misunderstood. However, official Canadian government published information is different. Ontario has some detailed information.

I'm from Ontario. The required training takes a full day each year and can't be summed up by a website.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Lots of things. My job is virtually interacting with clients. We are mandated by law (Canada) to do ADA training every single year to make sure we are accommodating those with disabilities. Among the requirements:

-Allow the client to communicate in writing or with a pre-written letter if speaking is difficult for them.
-Accept documentation of your client's disability and ensure that you are following the suggestions of the documentation they provide.
-Recognize the signs of someone with a disability and ask them if you should slow / simplify your speech to accommodate their needs.
-Inform them of their right to have an advocate to help navigate their communication with you.
-If you do not have current accommodations to suit their needs, ask the client how you could adjust your business environment to help accommodate them.
-Offer alternative to a video-based platform if this is not suitable to the client. Alternatives include phone conversation, email or in-person conversations.

From what I hear and have experienced, Disney routinely misses every one of the points above. These are just a few of the many things suggested to us in training. Every business owner in Canada must follow these guidelines. I understand that the U.S. has different requirements for businesses. However, it is clear from recent reports of DAS conversations with CMs that Disney is not following even basic protocol for interacting with the disability community.

I do understand where your line of thinking is basically offer in person interviews if on the phone does not work but I understand what the others are saying (I've read beyond this comment); I don't think it's something Disney could never do in the future but I can see why they've shied away from doing it if they can (I believe presumably there's some state law interacting with CA's park having it).

Some of the above does not translate to the situation at hand. It may be something that applies more to your virtual job but does not necessarily translate to a theme park and their program for those who have issues with lines.

I worked on the phone for nearly 5 years in an insurance call center. What I could do for agents on the phone was always tempered by my surroundings of that environment (which is the same limitation as in person as it is virtually), hierarchy of responsibility as well as compliance with each state's insurance laws. I would have some agents who would call up, we'd go over their client's situation and then I would e-mail them something (per their request) and then they would struggle and ask me how to get to their e-mail and open it. I was unable to help them with that and no one could help with that. That was out of our purview. While there may have been agents who had a disability (just trying to tie this into the DAS discussion) that did not matter. I could not help an agent get into their e-mail.

I'm sure at your job you have limitations as well. Even your discussion you have will leave out difficulties some will experience. Even asking how you could adjust your business environment will nearly always lead to nothing because you have to consider legalities, ease of complying as well as the cost ratio to benefit. In addition as has been discussed a lot already ADA itself is fairly cut and dried and spelled out for specific environments, where theme parks come into play isn't.

This all is part of the reason why there's been pushback from posters with suggestions that essentially undo all of these changes. I def. agree on the empathy part and way of speaking to someone, I've mentioned that multiple times. A point I think can be made is sometimes reading some of the comments there's murky ways of viewing it wherein a DAS denial may be more likely to be viewed even a to-the-point but done politely enough comment or explanation still nets someone to say something critical or negative about the interaction. Having been on the receiving end of that when it came to the insurance company where you could be the most empathetic person but if the agent messed up and you couldn't fix it or compliance prohibited an action that empathy fell by the waste side to the agent because I was the messenger of bad news. I don't think that's all the comments but I do think that is something to keep in mind.

 

[Keladry84]

Some of the rest of these suggestions seem a bit petty. Font sizes can be controlled by the user. A guest who is having problems hearing can ask the CM to speak into the microphone or slow down if they can’t understand. Just submitting an email doesn’t allow the CM to probe further into needs, or would dramatically slow down the process if EVERY question requires a non-real time back and forth, especially if emails do not always go to the same CM. In any case they would have to re-familiarize themselves with each case for every single interaction.

It might seem petty to someone who doesn’t need the accommodation, but for someone who does it is night and day difference, and can be the difference of access vs no access.

Take email communication for example. My doctors office FINALLY actually switching over to email only with me is the reason why I now actually have consistent access to primary care, and by extension specialty medical care when I need the referral. I didn’t for most of my twenties. The phone system was a large barrier for me, both needing to initiate a phone call, leave a message (because no doctors office actually answers the phone), and then having to explain my need again at an unexpected time when they call me back (and if I miss the call repeat). Navigating that process was next to impossible for me. the nonsynchronos and written nature of email for this gave me access that I otherwise didnt have.

When I applied for the aap with universal, I explained my difficulty with phone calls in email and they luckily used email only for me. This was adaptive to my needs. Luckily, for Disney I do ok on zoom calls, but if I didn’t I would need someone who could join me and advocate for me, which I don’t have.

While we all might not agree on what things could be changed to do so, the pp above has a valid point that disneys current process and format is not the most accessible to those they say it is intended for because of communication barriers/difficulties that come with being autistic.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

my nearly adult children do not understand how to increase the font size from their end. Neither do they have the faculties to verbally ask someone to slow their speech down or speak louder.

Actually, they wouldn't even be able to follow the website prompts to join the queue for a chat.

Nor would they know how to ask for an advocate to be present without it being suggested to them.

With respect these three above comments are incongruent with this below comment

Their only option is often to have an advocate, or provide a letter that has been written on their behalf, expressing their needs.

I'm not saying I don't understand what you're meaning but that they conflict with each other. If you do not have the faculties to follow a website nor verbally ask someone to adjust their speech/volume, don't know how to increase fonts, etc the likelihood of them even being in the position to be on a DAS interview by themselves is going to be extremely low for the exact reasons you mentioned, they do not have the faculties to do so. And I say this with having 3 adult individuals in my family (between mine and my husbands) with limited mental faculties with legal guardians who are their advocates from medical to monetary. My autistic aunt may be high functioning, holding a job, living on her own, but this sort of situation with DAS is one she would never be in because she wouldn't know how to even get there.

I do think there is a type of individual who is not what you are describing that may find themselves in the situation you are describing. Much more likely to be someone who has mental faculties to do so (especially to navigate websites, chats, computers, etc) but struggles with putting verbally what their situation is. And that might be one that perhaps suggesting a brief look for cues can be done by the CM to see if a suggestion of an advocate may be appropriate. There is a line however to be careful of by which you do not want to offend an individual by doing so; some may be very grateful to even have that suggested others may be insulted at the insinuation.

 

[nalababybear]

@mamaofsix . Great points that you brought up.

USA has some similar requirements with 508 compliance rules. It's a good point and I never checked if the chat portion really is 508 or not.

I know there is email alternative and it typically works when persistent. It's bogged down right now with all the advocacy ongoing so it's much slower, bit it DOES work. Several reports of outreach getting through and actions being done.

Adult ASD is a very big area. Our son will never be able to self advocate given his severity, but many of his cohorts can, and we strove every single day to help them learn to stand up and be self sufficient in all aspects of life. It is hard.

Disney does give adults the space and time and I applaud them foe that tremendous space l. It kills the access time for sure, but it gives that learning space for our adult ASD folk. There's no easy way for Disney to tackle this. Ironically a video visit can be much easier overall for most ASD, but also other parts not so much where a local f2f option works better

Overall Dinsey does a pretty solid job on the accessibility to the team. It can do better on clarity

 

[OurBigTrip]

@mamaofsix . Great points that you brought up.

USA has some similar requirements with 508 compliance rules. It's a good point and I never checked if the chat portion really is 508 or not.

I know there is email alternative and it typically works when persistent. It's bogged down right now with all the advocacy ongoing so it's much slower, bit it DOES work. Several reports of outreach getting through and actions being done.

Adult ASD is a very big area. Our son will never be able to self advocate given his severity, but many of his cohorts can, and we strove every single day to help them learn to stand up and be self sufficient in all aspects of life. It is hard.

Disney does give adults the space and time and I applaud them foe that tremendous space l. It kills the access time for sure, but it gives that learning space for our adult ASD folk. There's no easy way for Disney to tackle this. Ironically a video visit can be much easier overall for most ASD, but also other parts not so much where a local f2f option works better

Overall Dinsey does a pretty solid job on the accessibility to the team. It can do better on clarity

I'm pretty sure that Section 508 falls under the Rehabilitation Act and not the ADA, meaning that it would only apply to federal agencies, not private businesses.

 

[nalababybear]

I'm pretty sure that Section 508 falls under the Rehabilitation Act and not the ADA, meaning that it would only apply to federal agencies, not private businesses.

True. Large corporations do tend to follow much of these type being good corporate citizens.

As said, Disney does a pretty good job and has alternative options that can be utilized for accessibility.

Disney can do better to be clear to allow others on the call. I believe from the reports from advocacy boards that most CMs are doing a pretty good job in trying to get the requesting person to the answers that they are trying to communicate.

The low hanging fruit are the kids with parents speaking.

The harder ones are the young adults who really struggle with their own advocacy. They aren't lying or faking it. Those doing that have their own special karma coming.

 

[prettypatchesmsu]

I’ve heard several reports of the opening interview question now being different than what are your issues with waiting in a queue line. I’ve seen the language be something like “What do you want to tell me about today”. That’s pretty open ended and would throw me off.
Anyone that just recently called also experienced that?

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

-Allow the client to communicate in writing or with a pre-written letter if speaking is difficult for them.

I was under the impression that people were able to type their responses during the interview? It might be something that needs to be requested or explained, but otherwise that would eliminate a lot of people who are deaf, hard of hearing, mute, or have other hearing or speech related disabilities from being able to conduct an interview at all. You also can pre-write anything you want and read it/type it during the interview, you just can't upload your pre-written letter.

-Accept documentation of your client's disability and ensure that you are following the suggestions of the documentation they provide.

This has been discussed in depth but documentation cannot legally be required for disability accomodations and accepting it at all makes Disney responsible for properly safeguarding that documentation- something that would be costly, require a lot more work, etc. I don't blame them for not wanting to go down that road.

Obviously, following suggestions on documentation is not really a viable option in terms of theme park accomodations, but since you later said you were referring to accomodations needed during the interview itself, I'll only respond to that. I don't see why any proof of disability would be needed in that case. It's not like the CM is going to say, "I don't believe you're deaf" and refuse to help you. If you ask for accomodations for their interview itself and it is something they CAN accommodate, there's no reason for them not to. Not every possible thing is available to them though.

-Recognize the signs of someone with a disability and ask them if you should slow / simplify your speech to accommodate their needs.

- Considering that it is an interview for disability access options, I think it's assumed that everyone they interview has a disability of some form. They aren't mind readers and can't be expected to assume what someone's disability or needs are. While some people might find it helpful if someone asks if they want speech slowed/simplified, that could be very offensive to other people. Many people find it patronizing and insulting when someone else assumes they can't do/need assistance with certain things. If someone needs accomodations during the interview, the onus is on them to ask for it. I do understand that it can be difficult or impossible for some to ask for/properly articulate needs, but if someone is unable to ask for what they need for the interview process itself, unfortunately they are probably going to struggle explaining their needs pertaining to lines as well. This seems like it would be a situation where practicing an interview and advocating for oneself could be helpful, but also having someone on the interview with you might be needed.

-Inform them of their right to have an advocate to help navigate their communication with you.

Absolutely. This goes into the last point as well, but I do think it should be written on the website, and said at the beginning of the interview that an advocate is permitted. Also perhaps having it written somewhere what accomodations are available for the interview itself (such as if you need the CM to speak loudly, slowly, type answers, etc), and a general statement that if you need other assistance with the interview itself, to ask and they will try to accommodate you.

-If you do not have current accommodations to suit their needs, ask the client how you could adjust your business environment to help accommodate them.

Since this is concerning the interview itself and not theme park accomodations, the CM could ask how things could be changed to make the interview process more accommodating, but I would guess those type of suggestions would be better in an email to Disney. Then it's in writing and you're not relying on a busy CM to remember it and relay it to their supervisor, especially considering the CM you're speaking to has no power over making changes to the interview process that aren't currently available.

-Offer alternative to a video-based platform if this is not suitable to the client. Alternatives include phone conversation, email or in-person conversations.

I believe there needs to be some type of video in order to get the picture of anyone granted DAS. Again though, I was under the impression that the interviews could be done through typing. Email isn't exactly effective, due to the back and forth nature of an interview and the time it could take between responses/possibly having numerous CMs working the case, etc. As for in person, I completely understand why the World wants to take that pressure off of in-person CMs.

-increase the font size in my chat so they can read it better (visual impairment)
-increase the volume of my microphone or move closer to my webcam so they can see my facial expressions

I'm not familiar with Zoom, but others have mentioned that those are things guests themselves have control of for the most part. If someone needs a CM to move closer to the screen, they can ask. I'm sure there are tutorials for Zoom that might be beneficial for guests to utilize before the interview if they aren't particularly tech savvy.

-re-book a time to meet with the client when they are less stressed. Be present for that next booked appointment.

I do wish there were a way for Disney to book people appointment windows for the interviews and maybe that's something that can be accommodated in the future if wait times are going to be especially long.

 

[Justrose]

Does anyone else stand in a grocery line with their kiddo and just say "This is why we need DAS". I wish I could just show proof from our store visits and even bathroom lines in public and it's clear as day why our one kiddo needs it. So when requesting it do I explain the meltdowns and such that happens when waiting in lines ?

All the time. And then I think, if we are denied DAS, how am I going to make our vacation work if we can't even go to the store?

 

[SCWildcat04]

I finally did the new system since I took some time off and made last minute plans to go next week, and honestly the process felt the same as before. Since there aren’t doing pre selections anymore, when are you able to make your initial selection?

 

[jennab]

I finally did the new system since I took some time off and made last minute plans to go next week, and honestly the process felt the same as before. Since there aren’t doing pre selections anymore, when are you able to make your initial selection?

After you scan into the park.

 

[SCWildcat04]

After you scan into the park.

Guess we’re rope dropping to try to get as much done as we can before the sun cooks us then. Thank goodness we’re staying deluxe to take advantage of the extra hours as well.

 

[jennab]

Guess we’re rope dropping to try to get as much done as we can before the sun cooks us then. Thank goodness we’re staying deluxe to take advantage of the extra hours as well.

This is what we normally do. Rope drop and get smaller rides out of the way with short waits and DAS the longer wait rides. We usually do lunch in AC then head out to take a break at resort.

 

[SueM in MN]

Does anyone else stand in a grocery line with their kiddo and just say "This is why we need DAS". I wish I could just show proof from our store visits and even bathroom lines in public and it's clear as day why our one kiddo needs it. So when requesting it do I explain the meltdowns and such that happens when waiting in lines ?

The main question is still "What are your concerns with waiting in the regular lines?"
You can discuss anything you think would help the CM to understand those concerns.
The examples can be 'real world' outside of a park examples if you don't have 'in park' examples.

I finally did the new system since I took some time off and made last minute plans to go next week, and honestly the process felt the same as before. Since there aren’t doing pre selections anymore, when are you able to make your initial selection?

The initial selection can be made once you have entered the park and there is a Standby Wait time listed for the attraction you are interested in.
Some attractions have short waits for a while after opening and won't have a posted wait time. Some don't open right at park opening.
It's possible to look at wait times without being in a park, so you could look this week before your trip just to get an idea of timing

 

[tarheelmjfan]

@lanejudy (or anyone else that can answer), apologizes for calling you out specifically, but I've seen you mention several times that people with physical disabilities only have been approved under the new DAS rules. How many reports have you seen? I saw a report of one approval in the very early days of the change, but haven't seen anyone say they were approved since. (TBF, I haven't been searching multiple sites either.) I realize approval is need specific. I'm just curious what the odds are that someone who has physical disabilities only will be approved for any reason.

 

[KrzyKtty101]

@lanejudy (or anyone else that can answer), apologizes for calling you out specifically, but I've seen you mention several times that people with physical disabilities only have been approved under the new DAS rules. How many reports have you seen? I saw a report of one approval in the very early days of the change, but haven't seen anyone say they were approved since. (TBF, I haven't been searching multiple sites either.) I realize approval is need specific. I'm just curious what the odds are that someone who has physical disabilities only will be approved for any reason.

Have you checked the other thread that has been accumulating reports of approvals and rejections?

 

[tarheelmjfan]

Have you checked the other thread that has been accumulating reports of approvals and rejections?

I have been. If there have been other reports, I somehow missed them. That's totally possible, which is why I asked how many reports others have seen.