DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[stenickar]

Very disappointed with the new system. I waited on line Saturday for over 8 hours, Sunday 7 hours and Monday 7 hours. I finally get a CM and he can't hear me. It was very loud, with many voices in the background. We finally make a connection and he asks why my daughter can't wait in line. I explain her needs and behaviors that happen in lines. Also let them know that we don't usually wait in lines with more than 2-3 people ahead of us. He brings over another CM, who is supposed to be "trained" to a higher knowledge. I even explained that my daughter has used the DAS every time we have been to WDW as she has autism and cognitive delays. They said she didn't need the DAS and could use the Return to Queue. I explained that this would not work as my other daughter is not able to be left alone -she is 8 and my daughter whom we are talking about can't be left alone. I have another adult going with me to be with one girl and I will be with the other. My other daughter has needs that need accommodations. SOOOOO..... what I am I supposed to do now? The RtQ would work if they gave us a time to come back in approximation to where we would be in line. There will be some rides that the littlest one will not be able to go on. I am so frustrated, we have always gotten the DAS and the website states it is for people with autism or cognitive disabilities, which my daughter has both. I understand not everyone with autism or cognitive delays needs accommodations, but my daughter does. My other issue is the time difference, we are 3 hours ahead of California. My 8 year old can not stay up until 9:30 pm, which is the time I got connected last night. I guess I will have to stand in line at the park (with 2 people who have issues standing in line) for however long it takes to get the accommodations my little one needs. I felt that I gave a good explanation of why my daughter can not stand in line. I guess they are going by the fact if you can wait in line at McDonalds with 2-3 people in front of you, you can wait in a 60 minute line where you can't see what you are waiting for.

 

[stenickar]

I never got a Zoom invite, it was a video call.

 

[jennab]

Very disappointed with the new system. I waited on line Saturday for over 8 hours, Sunday 7 hours and Monday 7 hours. I finally get a CM and he can't hear me. It was very loud, with many voices in the background. We finally make a connection and he asks why my daughter can't wait in line. I explain her needs and behaviors that happen in lines. Also let them know that we don't usually wait in lines with more than 2-3 people ahead of us. He brings over another CM, who is supposed to be "trained" to a higher knowledge. I even explained that my daughter has used the DAS every time we have been to WDW as she has autism and cognitive delays. They said she didn't need the DAS and could use the Return to Queue. I explained that this would not work as my other daughter is not able to be left alone -she is 8 and my daughter whom we are talking about can't be left alone. I have another adult going with me to be with one girl and I will be with the other. My other daughter has needs that need accommodations. SOOOOO..... what I am I supposed to do now? The RtQ would work if they gave us a time to come back in approximation to where we would be in line. There will be some rides that the littlest one will not be able to go on. I am so frustrated, we have always gotten the DAS and the website states it is for people with autism or cognitive disabilities, which my daughter has both. I understand not everyone with autism or cognitive delays needs accommodations, but my daughter does. My other issue is the time difference, we are 3 hours ahead of California. My 8 year old can not stay up until 9:30 pm, which is the time I got connected last night. I guess I will have to stand in line at the park (with 2 people who have issues standing in line) for however long it takes to get the accommodations my little one needs. I felt that I gave a good explanation of why my daughter can not stand in line. I guess they are going by the fact if you can wait in line at McDonalds with 2-3 people in front of you, you can wait in a 60 minute line where you can't see what you are waiting for.

So were they saying your 8yr old and other adult could wait in line then you and your other daughter could meet up with them through the LL once at the merge point?

 

[TwoMisfits]

Very disappointed with the new system. I waited on line Saturday for over 8 hours, Sunday 7 hours and Monday 7 hours. I finally get a CM and he can't hear me. It was very loud, with many voices in the background. We finally make a connection and he asks why my daughter can't wait in line. I explain her needs and behaviors that happen in lines. Also let them know that we don't usually wait in lines with more than 2-3 people ahead of us. He brings over another CM, who is supposed to be "trained" to a higher knowledge. I even explained that my daughter has used the DAS every time we have been to WDW as she has autism and cognitive delays. They said she didn't need the DAS and could use the Return to Queue. I explained that this would not work as my other daughter is not able to be left alone -she is 8 and my daughter whom we are talking about can't be left alone. I have another adult going with me to be with one girl and I will be with the other. My other daughter has needs that need accommodations. SOOOOO..... what I am I supposed to do now? The RtQ would work if they gave us a time to come back in approximation to where we would be in line. There will be some rides that the littlest one will not be able to go on. I am so frustrated, we have always gotten the DAS and the website states it is for people with autism or cognitive disabilities, which my daughter has both. I understand not everyone with autism or cognitive delays needs accommodations, but my daughter does. My other issue is the time difference, we are 3 hours ahead of California. My 8 year old can not stay up until 9:30 pm, which is the time I got connected last night. I guess I will have to stand in line at the park (with 2 people who have issues standing in line) for however long it takes to get the accommodations my little one needs. I felt that I gave a good explanation of why my daughter can not stand in line. I guess they are going by the fact if you can wait in line at McDonalds with 2-3 people in front of you, you can wait in a 60 minute line where you can't see what you are waiting for.

I would suggest NOT waiting in line to retry for DAS in the park. Since implementation, once you get a No on the phone, Disney is VERY unlikely to change its decision until you have used the other accommodations in the park. So, no sense ruining your 1st day at the parks before you even start with the alternate accommodations by waiting in an hours-long line for a DAS unlikely to be given.

 

[Angel Ariel]

My fear is that they prioritize upsells with more LL slots over missing appropriate accommodations and cut too close to the bone.... and that's up to folk like this community to keep them honest from that aspect.

this 100%

 

[mistysue]

That's not wait times by definition. I believe @PrincessV is more true than not -- inflate standby times for two specific purposes: DAS virtual waits are extended and incentive to push G+ upsells.

Ironically, those DAS offramped to AQR probably will see faster throughputs than DAS holders if we're all talking about absolute need to ride (which most DAS holders aren't really interested in vs just getting on the rides successfully is our goal).

I'm saying we would get in a "60 minute" standby line, and would find ourselves exiting after the ride aprox 60 minutes later. I can't know the intent of why that happened, but it's been fairly consistent with random exceptions in our experience. We've gone most times of year during this period.

For the most part, people who accomplish a goal of maximizing rides by using AQR vs DAS - are likely people who shouldn't have been given DAS as an accommodation in the first place, and are likely many of the same people who used DAS (honestly granted or not) because it was an advantage rather than because it was a need. I'm not sure if ironic is the right word for it, but I think it's good to put people back into appropriate levels of accommodations. Eventually people are going to get sick of splitting up or coming and going, and some use will die down when it's about convenience vs necessity. DAS doesn't have an inconvenience factor that cuts down it's own overuse.

 

[OurBigTrip]

I'm saying we would get in a "60 minute" standby line, and would find ourselves exiting after the ride aprox 60 minutes later. I can't know the intent of why that happened, but it's been fairly consistent with random exceptions in our experience. We've gone most times of year during this period.

For the most part, people who accomplish a goal of maximizing rides by using AQR vs DAS - are likely people who shouldn't have been given DAS as an accommodation in the first place, and are likely many of the same people who used DAS (honestly granted or not) because it was an advantage rather than because it was a need. I'm not sure if ironic is the right word for it, but I think it's good to put people back into appropriate levels of accommodations. Eventually people are going to get sick of splitting up or coming and going, and some use will die down when it's about convenience vs necessity. DAS doesn't have an inconvenience factor that cuts down it's own overuse.

Well said.

The problem Disney had (and still does, to some degree) is that for people who are on the line of needing accommodations, or the "just in casers", DAS is more attractive than the paid option...that should never be the case.

 

[nalababybear]

Wait times is to get to the start of whatever one is waiting for.

Using the end of the ride or event would be a silly metric and most people would simply not use that as a standard definition of wait times.

Eg red lanyards were given upon entry and done at ride load.....not at the end of the ride.

 

[nalababybear]

Well said.

The problem Disney had (and still does, to some degree) is that for people who are on the line of needing accommodations, or the "just in casers", DAS is more attractive than the paid option...that should never be the case.

One is paid . One is an accommodation to attain equity. If one uses said accommodation inappropriately, for sure that will garner an advantage to that user.

For one with the disability, that accommodation achieves equity.

Don't conflate one with the other. Of course those without the said disability at hand, there is more than needed. Disney has addressed this.

DAS when used by one with needs of one achieves equity and accessibility. Please don't lose sight of that and the why.

 

[mistysue]

Well said.

The problem Disney had (and still does, to some degree) is that for people who are on the line of needing accommodations, or the "just in casers", DAS is more attractive than the paid option...that should never be the case.

I know - I keep trying to think about WHY this is such a massive issue at Disney and not other parks - I keep coming back to the amount that their rides and shows are just more accessible by nature. I can think of 2 rides at WDW I won't do because they do unpleasant things to me. We went over the UO and somewhere between 1/3-1/2 of the park either I or my husband couldn't do.
I would hate for the answer to be building thrill rides over what I see as pleasant experiences.

 

[OurBigTrip]

One is paid . One is an accommodation to attain equity. If one uses said accommodation inappropriately, for sure that will garner an advantage to that user.

For one with the disability, that accommodation achieves equity.

Don't conflate one with the other. Of course those without the said disability at hand, there is more than needed. Disney has addressed this.

DAS when used by one with needs of one achieves equity and accessibility. Please don't lose sight of that and the why.

I realize they are for two different purposes, thank you. But one of them (DAS), even when used appropriately (i.e., by those who really need it) is in numerous ways a much better product than the paid product - that's just a fact.

And when a free option, regardless of its purpose, is better than a paid option, outright cheaters/liars and people who probably could get by without the free option (DAS) will opt for the better, free, option.

 

[mistysue]

Wait times is to get to the start of whatever one is waiting for.

Using the end of the ride or event would be a silly metric and most people would simply not use that as a standard definition of wait times.

Eg red lanyards were given upon entry and done at ride load.....not at the end of the ride.

The posted wait time, which is clearly what I am discussing, is rarely the same thing as the exact time from entering the line to boarding it. When someone is talking about a listed wait time, NEVER are they discussing the actual line entry to boarding, as that is not what a listed or posted wait time is. We have been timing it out that the wait Disney tells us we will have, often ends up including the entire ride. Yes, that means the posted time includes more than the wait. That does not change that it was the posted time.

One is paid . One is an accommodation to attain equity. If one uses said accommodation inappropriately, for sure that will garner an advantage to that user.

For one with the disability, that accommodation achieves equity.

Don't conflate one with the other. Of course those without the said disability at hand, there is more than needed. Disney has addressed this.

DAS when used by one with needs of one achieves equity and accessibility. Please don't lose sight of that and the why.

Everyone knows that DAS is an accommodation. Nobody is misunderstanding that. DAS doesn't necessarily achieve equity. It achieves access. Picture that meme about the kids looking over a fence standing on boxes. If you have a 5' fence, and the kids are 2' and 4', giving them each a 2' box to stand on does not do the same thing for both kids. Giving each a 3' box and telling them to jump the fence lets both (barely) see, but isn't equity and doesn't give them the same chance of getting over the fence. The taller child did not NEED a taller box just because the 2' tall child did.

DAS and LL (paid) are intertwined in their usage. People who can pay for LL, would rather be granted DAS, especially if they consider it a need, regardless of whether it gives them equity or an advantage. (sometimes what one considers a need is what one prefers) Disney has the tough job of trying to separate those groups.

 

[nalababybear]

I realize they are for two different purposes, thank you. But one of them (DAS), even when used appropriately (i.e., by those who really need it) is in numerous ways a much better product than the paid product - that's just a fact.

And when a free option, regardless of its purpose, is better than a paid option, outright cheaters/liars and people who probably could get by without the free option (DAS) will opt for the better, free, option.

Not disputing that. Handicap parking is the same way.

Should we put handicap in the back of the lots if people lie and use them?

 

[OurBigTrip]

Not disputing that. Handicap parking is the same way.

Should we put handicap in the back of the lots if people lie and use them?

Not even close to a valid comparison, but you do you.

I would be interested in hearing your reasons as to why a paid option that is supposed to provide an experience better than standby should be worse than an accommodation that is supposed to provide an experience equivalent to standby.

 

[nalababybear]

The posted wait time, which is clearly what I am discussing, is rarely the same thing as the exact time from entering the line to boarding it. When someone is talking about a listed wait time, NEVER are they discussing the actual line entry to boarding, as that is not what a listed or posted wait time is. We have been timing it out that the wait Disney tells us we will have, often ends up including the entire ride. Yes, that means the posted time includes more than the wait. That does not change that it was the posted time.

Everyone knows that DAS is an accommodation. Nobody is misunderstanding that. DAS doesn't necessarily achieve equity. It achieves access. Picture that meme about the kids looking over a fence standing on boxes. If you have a 5' fence, and the kids are 2' and 4', giving them each a 2' box to stand on does not do the same thing for both kids. Giving each a 3' box and telling them to jump the fence lets both (barely) see, but isn't equity and doesn't give them the same chance of getting over the fence. The taller child did not NEED a taller box just because the 2' tall child did.

DAS and LL (paid) are intertwined in their usage. People who can pay for LL, would rather be granted DAS, especially if they consider it a need, regardless of whether it gives them equity or an advantage. (sometimes what one considers a need is what one prefers) Disney has the tough job of trying to separate those groups.

Hence different levels of accommodation, right? DAS is the 4' box. It should be given to 2' folk. Disney has in the past included the 4' folk too;

now that operations were impacted, they have to adjust and make the 4' folk have the 2' accommodation that was seldom used -- still a reasonable accommodation.

Now, there are some 3' folk getting stuck in this whole process and being told to use the 2' foot box accommodation. They are BARELY peering over the fence and struggling -- this is where Disney and those 3' people need to figure out a way forward.

6' people need not apply for the boxes. They for sure may want them, and can pay for that 4' box (but in reality is probably a 3.5' box) -- but it's not needed. They can lie and try to get that 4' box. It's up to Disney to say, nah; go pay for that 3.5' box Mr 6' person.

 

[mistysue]

Hence different levels of accommodation, right? DAS is the 4' box. It should be given to 2' folk. Disney has in the past included the 4' folk too;

now that operations were impacted, they have to adjust and make the 4' folk have the 2' accommodation that was seldom used -- still a reasonable accommodation.

Now, there are some 3' folk getting stuck in this whole process and being told to use the 2' foot box accommodation. They are BARELY peering over the fence and struggling -- this is where Disney and those 3' people need to figure out a way forward.

6' people need not apply for the boxes. They for sure may want them, and can pay for that 4' box (but in reality is probably a 3.5' box) -- but it's not needed. They can lie and try to get that 4' box. It's up to Disney to say, nah; go pay for that 3.5' box Mr 6' person.

Yes.
To further our mutual over use of this line of thought, unfortunately for a bit those boxes were being handed to 5'5" people because they weren't 6', they didn't even have to lie to get it, and the scale back is harsh.

I think Disney will find a way to work with the people stuck in the middle (the 3'ers) - I'm imagining that at some point, some things that have come up here might see daylight again. Things like a DAS that is active for only certain rides -outdoor in sun, or low light, or low walls and echos- because there are in between scenarios where giving that person a DAS is not appropriate, but there are some lines now they actually can't do.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Not disputing that. Handicap parking is the same way.

Should we put handicap in the back of the lots if people lie and use them?

I feel like at this stage handicap parking is a comparison that doesn't make much sense especially when the conversation has been recently need/want/deserve/etc.

Handicap placards are typically a state by state decision in all that can get you one but no matter what someone is left out even if they believe they should get one. In my state the distance listed under several parts is cannot walk 100 feet, the state next to me (which I border and frequently am in) is half that distance with only needing to be unable to walk 50 ft. If you want the comparison to be that some people will obtain a placard in the state next to me but wouldn't in my state even if both feel they should get it I guess the real life example is you run into situations outside of a theme park where some qualify for something and you don't...

In addition there is not an exhaustive supply of handicap spots, unlike DAS for example where Disney doesn't says "first 25 get DAS" like an establishment that has only 25 handicap spots for example. Someone has a very high likelihood of going to an establishment and a handicap spot being unavailable. Given that my in-laws have a permanent placard we see this all.the.time.

 

[sunburnin]

DAS doesn't necessarily achieve equity. It achieves access.

DAS was far superior to equity.

The baseline is a paid entrance to the park that uses only standby lines and has no access to ILL rides.
Upgrade one, available to everyone for free, is a VQ lottery.
Upgrade two, available to everyone for a cost, is purchasing 1-2 rides using ILL.
Upgrade three, available to everyone for a cost, involves purchasing G+, which adds another 3-5 rides per day for the purchaser.
DAS, free to those who qualified, was much better than G+ for you and your family (see arguments for the last 428 pages).

If it were equity, DAS users would average as many rides as unpaid standby lines.

 

[mistysue]

DAS was far superior to equity.

The baseline is a paid entrance to the park that uses only standby lines and has no access to ILL rides.
Upgrade one, available to everyone for free, is a VQ lottery.
Upgrade two, available to everyone for a cost, is purchasing 1-2 rides using ILL.
Upgrade three, available to everyone for a cost, involves purchasing G+, which adds another 3-5 rides per day for the purchaser.
DAS, free to those who qualified, was much better than G+ for you and your family (see arguments for the last 428 pages).

If it were equity, DAS users would average as many rides as unpaid standby lines.

I meant it to suggest DAS is better than equity for many in response to a post saying LL is paid but that DAS "is an accommodation to attain equity" - for some it is to attain equity, for many (likely most using it) it goes beyond. (the intention is access, which it certainly does the bulk of the time)

 

[Mirabell Rose]

Very disappointed with the new system. I waited on line Saturday for over 8 hours, Sunday 7 hours and Monday 7 hours. I finally get a CM and he can't hear me. It was very loud, with many voices in the background. We finally make a connection and he asks why my daughter can't wait in line. I explain her needs and behaviors that happen in lines. Also let them know that we don't usually wait in lines with more than 2-3 people ahead of us. He brings over another CM, who is supposed to be "trained" to a higher knowledge. I even explained that my daughter has used the DAS every time we have been to WDW as she has autism and cognitive delays. They said she didn't need the DAS and could use the Return to Queue. I explained that this would not work as my other daughter is not able to be left alone -she is 8 and my daughter whom we are talking about can't be left alone. I have another adult going with me to be with one girl and I will be with the other. My other daughter has needs that need accommodations. SOOOOO..... what I am I supposed to do now? The RtQ would work if they gave us a time to come back in approximation to where we would be in line. There will be some rides that the littlest one will not be able to go on. I am so frustrated, we have always gotten the DAS and the website states it is for people with autism or cognitive disabilities, which my daughter has both. I understand not everyone with autism or cognitive delays needs accommodations, but my daughter does. My other issue is the time difference, we are 3 hours ahead of California. My 8 year old can not stay up until 9:30 pm, which is the time I got connected last night. I guess I will have to stand in line at the park (with 2 people who have issues standing in line) for however long it takes to get the accommodations my little one needs. I felt that I gave a good explanation of why my daughter can not stand in line. I guess they are going by the fact if you can wait in line at McDonalds with 2-3 people in front of you, you can wait in a 60 minute line where you can't see what you are waiting for.

I can empathize regarding the long phone waits and having to deal with new Disney systems. I read that you will have 2 of you to help with 2 children who can’t wait in line alone. Does the return to que allow both one adult and one child to leave the que? Forgive me, I don’t fully understand the new system.