D.O.C.'s = Dis'ers of Color (Disney Fans of Color)

Would you like a dedicated/featured Forum for D.O.C.'s Dis'ers Of Color & Allies


  • Total voters
    195

TheMaxRebo

DIS Veteran
Joined
Jan 12, 2008
Just an FYI if you missed it but news broke yesterday of Disney having proposals for potential big expansion to Disneyland. Keep in mind this is all conceptual/early stages and really just Disney positioning to get the City of Aneheim to allow them to develop the land as they want, with more freedom in the future.

That said, there was some chicken concept art released and specific IP mentions as the type of thing that could be added.

What I thought might be of interest here - and relates to a topic previously discussed here, is one area, which would be the entranceway into this new portion of DCA from the old certainly looks like Wakanda.

Again this is all just super early stages and I am sure will change 100 times before anything gets built, but the fact they have even considered Wakanda enough to develop concept art and release it in any form I found interesting

 

kylenne

Wakandan-American
Joined
Oct 16, 2016
Just an FYI if you missed it but news broke yesterday of Disney having proposals for potential big expansion to Disneyland. Keep in mind this is all conceptual/early stages and really just Disney positioning to get the City of Aneheim to allow them to develop the land as they want, with more freedom in the future.

That said, there was some chicken concept art released and specific IP mentions as the type of thing that could be added.

What I thought might be of interest here - and relates to a topic previously discussed here, is one area, which would be the entranceway into this new portion of DCA from the old certainly looks like Wakanda.

Again this is all just super early stages and I am sure will change 100 times before anything gets built, but the fact they have even considered Wakanda enough to develop concept art and release it in any form I found interesting

Eminent domain has been the thing standing in the way of any DLR expansions afaik. From the talk I’ve seen online, the land in question is adjacent to a neighborhood filled with low income largely citizens of color. Even if they’re not kicking these folks out and building it right on top of their neighborhood, as someone who is rapidly seeing her own working class Black immigrant neighborhood rapidly gentrifying and pricing out long term residents, I don’t feel good about this

A Wakanda attraction essentially forcing Black folks out of their homes is just peak gallows comedy to me, no matter how much I love Black Panther
 

JodieJRanch

Earning My Ears
Joined
Mar 11, 2021
Eminent domain has been the thing standing in the way of any DLR expansions afaik. From the talk I’ve seen online, the land in question is adjacent to a neighborhood filled with low income largely citizens of color. Even if they’re not kicking these folks out and building it right on top of their neighborhood, as someone who is rapidly seeing her own working class Black immigrant neighborhood rapidly gentrifying and pricing out long term residents, I don’t feel good about this

A Wakanda attraction essentially forcing Black folks out of their homes is just peak gallows comedy to me, no matter how much I love Black Panther
With a state that's up to its eyeballs in debt and corporations moving out on a daily basis because of its high taxes. California needs some good economic news. An expansion like this will potentially help the entire state. I'd hate to see the tail wag the dog in this case to the detriment of the vast majority.
 

kylenne

Wakandan-American
Joined
Oct 16, 2016
With a state that's up to its eyeballs in debt and corporations moving out on a daily basis because of its high taxes. California needs some good economic news. An expansion like this will potentially help the entire state. I'd hate to see the tail wag the dog in this case to the detriment of the vast majority.
Who is this “vast majority” that stands to benefit from hyper gentrification? The same “vast majority” that likely created these areas in the first place through redlining? Are Black people living in these neighborhoods not Californians? Do they not count as “the entire state”?

As always when it comes to economic development proposals there are very real systemic, structural issues at play. Ignoring them or blithely dismissing them is the very height of privilege.
 

JodieJRanch

Earning My Ears
Joined
Mar 11, 2021
Uuuuuh the Tax payers. However, that vast majority is becoming smaller and smaller with corporations moving out of the state at the highest rate in history.
 

redrosesix

DIS Veteran
Joined
Feb 29, 2008
Eminent domain has been the thing standing in the way of any DLR expansions afaik. From the talk I’ve seen online, the land in question is adjacent to a neighborhood filled with low income largely citizens of color. Even if they’re not kicking these folks out and building it right on top of their neighborhood, as someone who is rapidly seeing her own working class Black immigrant neighborhood rapidly gentrifying and pricing out long term residents, I don’t feel good about this

A Wakanda attraction essentially forcing Black folks out of their homes is just peak gallows comedy to me, no matter how much I love Black Panther
ouch...that's not a good look...

I couldn't find anything on that neighbourhood in particular but I would have to say it really depends on the fabric of the neighbourhood eg. whether people are renters or owners, if renters then whether the landlords are from the community. That being said, even a vibrant renter neighbourhood is very hard to relocate -- it's very hard to duplicate the magic that held it together and made people feel at home there.

My neighbourhood started gentrifying not long after I moved in, but not completely in a bad way. A few rooming houses on my street were turned back into family homes, but for a while we were fighting developers who wanted to tear down many houses to build apartment buildings. The house prices went up enough that they were no longer cheap enough to be bought up by developers. We were feeling the pinch until they grandfathered everyones' property taxes in my city (because even though our house had gone up in value, they also had elsewhere and we wouldn't have been better off moving since we were renting out half of the house to afford the mortgage). So now my neighbourhood is a collection of older people who have lived there all of their lives, people like me who moved here to raise a family, and a few new people who have enough money to gut and remodel their houses before they move in. But it's essentially the same neighbourhood as it was 100 years ago -- working class with an awesome market area within walking distance. I think that's the case because we got together to fight the developers.
 
  • disneyland_is_magic

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Aug 16, 2016
    Disneyland has proposed two large projects in recent years, the Eastern Gateway parking structure and a luxury hotel on existing land and both got canceled, both had situations around them that complicated them. I don't know if we need to rehash all the ins and out.

    I don't know much about what's happening in Anaheim right now, but when Disneyland announced this, something of such a large scale when previous proposals had run into issues, it did occur to me that they may be trying to seize the moment with the community and city while it is compromised. The timing felt off the mark.
     
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    JodieJRanch

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Mar 11, 2021
    Disneyland has proposed two large projects in recent years, the Eastern Gateway parking structure and a luxury hotel on existing land and both got canceled, both had situations around them that complicated them. I don't know if we need to rehash all the ins and out.

    I don't know much about what's happening in Anaheim right now, but when Disneyland announced this, something of such a large scale when previous proposals had run into issues, it did occur to me that they may be trying to seize the moment with the community and city while it is compromised. The timing felt off the mark.
    This whole thing is foreign to me. Disneyland is one of the biggest assets the State of California, Orange County and the City of Anaheim have. The fact that they're not bending over backwards to give them anything they want is astounding to me, especially given the economic situation for all involved. In Florida, what Disney wants, for the most part, Disney gets.
     
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    woodleygrrl

    Lawyer to the Stars
    Joined
    Aug 12, 2008
    This whole thing is foreign to me. Disneyland is one of the biggest assets the State of California, Orange County and the City of Anaheim have. The fact that they're not bending over backwards to give them anything they want, is astounding to me, especially given the economic situation for all involved. In Florida, what Disney wants, for the most part, Disney gets.
    LOL. what are they gonna do? Leave? come on.
     
  • redrosesix

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 29, 2008
    We need a forum section so we can have separate threads.
    Of course that's an option, but there are posts here that I think would be of interest to a wider community eg. the one several pages ago about a go fund me for two injured teens. It would be important to many, and many more would be able to see/share the link to the go fund me.

    Just saying...issues which have been important enough to post here may be (or should be) important to all DIS'ers so a separate forum may not be the way you want to go for every topic. This last topic of the DL expansion is something everyone who is raving on about how great it would be in the DL forum should know about. It adds nuance to the discussion.

    Having said that, I can easily think of several issues which would be completely separate, especially those relating to how the corporation relates to POC.
     

    redrosesix

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 29, 2008
    Hey there D.O.Cs please send lots of prayers, thoughts, pixi dustings, ect to these two teens from Lodge Grass, MT and their family. https://www.ktvq.com/news/local-news/in-an-act-of-heroism-lodge-grass-teens-survive-60-foot-fall-during-billings-pile-up-crash

    Lodge Grass is a small community of under 500 located on the Crow Indian Reservation along Interstate 90 about 80 miles southeast of Billings.
    This should be a separate thread on the Community Forum. Just a quick check and I found out that Gahge only got out of hospital a week ago but Celea is still there.

    I'll share it to my network but I think this is something DIS'ers would get behind. These kids are going to have some challenges but I truly hope they are proud of themselves for trying to rescue that family when they are in their darkest hours.

    Your post so I think you should start the thread.

    Edit: I found their Go Fund Me and they have already raised over $73k so the organizer has stopped donations. Both kids live with their 77 year old grandmother.

    https://gofund.me/bd1b4c04
     
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    808blessing

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Dec 5, 2020
    I get your point and agree there are obvious specific topics that lend itself to a POC thread.
    However, I have been in an anti-racist book club where one day we had to choose a breakout of all POC or all white. Being mixed race, I did one group once and another group the second time. It’s just different in a way I don’t want to explain and get into a debate about. But one example, everyone was fighting for their voice and idea to be heard, elaborating in an dominating, argumentative way. Another group was inviting quiet ones to express thought, taking turns sharing the floor, longer pauses and building upon one another. I felt welcomed and encouraged to express views in one of those groups. This is just one example.

    Living in the northwest for many years, I was often the only person of color in a room and continue to be when I attend national conferences where I’m the only one at my table who is a POC. It feels different and conversation flows differently. I can appreciate the differences but I would love a forum (dare I say a site) where the odds are increased that I will be understood and supported.

    So again this is not up for debate. I am seeking to have my viewpoint understood and valued.I have already seen some pretty ugly arguments on other Dis threads as a newbie and yah, it’s hard to have faith this won’t go astray when I put myself out there. I could reassure myself that then there is always an eject button if anything, but that’s the outcome of someone who goes into argument territory, to silence the other person. Sorry if I’m taking this thread in another direction. Would be good to have a category so many threads can be developed.
    As for GoFundMe issue- a nice solution would be for someone to take it to the other threads (or suggest it) if they thought it was important for all to view. (Redrosesix and I were aligned - I now see a previous post as I was still writing and didn’t see it until now.)
     
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    redrosesix

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 29, 2008
    I get your point and agree there are obvious specific topics that lend itself to a POC thread.
    However, I have been in an anti-racist book club where one day we had to choose a breakout of all POC or all white. Being mixed race, I did one group once and another group the second time. It’s just different in a way I don’t want to explain and get into a debate about. But one example, everyone was fighting for their voice and idea to be heard, elaborating in an dominating, argumentative way. Another group was inviting quiet ones to express thought, taking turns sharing the floor, longer pauses and building upon one another. I felt welcomed and encouraged to express views in one of those groups. This is just one example.

    Living in the northwest for many years, I was often the only person of color in a room and continue to be when I attend national conferences where I’m the only one at my table who is a POC. It feels different and conversation flows differently. I can appreciate the differences but I would love a forum (dare I say a site) where the odds are increased that I will be understood and supported.

    So again this is not up for debate. I am seeking to have my viewpoint understood and valued.I have already seen some pretty ugly arguments on other Dis threads as a newbie and yah, it’s hard to have faith this won’t go astray when I put myself out there. I could reassure myself that then there is always an eject button if anything, but that’s the outcome of someone who goes into argument territory, to silence the other person. Sorry if I’m taking this thread in another direction. Would be good to have a category so many threads can be developed.
    As for GoFundMe issue- a nice solution would be for someone to take it to the other threads (or suggest it) if they thought it was important for all to view. (Redrosesix and I were aligned - I now see a previous post as I was still writing and didn’t see it until now.)
    agreed with all.

    It's also nice to have a place where you can actually discuss other threads...as in whatever thread where people don't seem to be getting the issue at hand. I sometimes find a discussion needs to be discussed especially when people aren't from the same area, and being on the east coast of Canada I'm as far away from you as could be without being on a different continent. Words sometimes mean different things in different places, but it's the idea behind them that is important. There are certainly better ways to discuss things, as in your example how people can build on each other's ideas. But to do that, you really need to be listening rather than thinking of your next sentence that will help you win the argument.

    lol people do get easily triggered by some topics on DIS. There are some arguments that happen nearly every month -- you'll get used to that.
     

    sweetpeama

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Nov 30, 2013

    I am offering this up as a topic of discussion. I am going to hold off giving my opinions on the points raised until others have had a chance to watch this.

    What opinions does everyone have. Does he make a good point.
     

    TheMaxRebo

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jan 12, 2008
    Eminent domain has been the thing standing in the way of any DLR expansions afaik. From the talk I’ve seen online, the land in question is adjacent to a neighborhood filled with low income largely citizens of color. Even if they’re not kicking these folks out and building it right on top of their neighborhood, as someone who is rapidly seeing her own working class Black immigrant neighborhood rapidly gentrifying and pricing out long term residents, I don’t feel good about this

    A Wakanda attraction essentially forcing Black folks out of their homes is just peak gallows comedy to me, no matter how much I love Black Panther
    I guess I am missing where the eminent domain issue comes up. They land in the park expansion proposal is currently parking lots that Disney has already and the submission explicitly states that they are not planning to develop any square footage beyond what they are already allowed.
    566891
    Perhaps I missed things or just assuming things are misleading but this seemed to me just wanting to have control over what they build on land they already have, not taking over new land.

    I am not for people getting kicked out of their homes but this doesn't seems like that
     

    redrosesix

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 29, 2008

    I am offering this up as a topic of discussion. I am going to hold off giving my opinions on the points raised until others have had a chance to watch this.

    What opinions does everyone have. Does he make a good point.
    I had a huge long reply to this that took me 2 days to write and I guess it disappeared when the servers went down...because it was just before the servers went down. lol I'll try to be more succinct this time to avoid the servers going down.

    I live on the East Coast of Canada and the majority of my ancestors are First Nations people and Scots, on both sides of my family. But that means I did not grow up on a reserve but nobody in my family ever went to residential school and both of my parents knew the same indigenous language even though they grew up in different parts of the province. And we were raised a little differently. In particular we weren't told that people were sorted into races and I must have been at least 9 or 10 before I knew that. they call this non-interference now, and that's the way it was with many things -- you don't give information to children that isn't necessary and let them figure out their world on their own as much as possible.

    Most of the male Scots were indentured servants (sentenced for insurrection or fighting against the British or born into it) , and they got their freedom and a land grant for joining British regiments during the revolutionary war in US (many later became privateers because they had no education and the land was not that great). At that time the relationship with indigenous people in Nova Scotia was beneficial to both (and a lot of people got married, obviously) and it wasn't until after more companies and people came here that resources and land became "scarce" -- it isn't actually because most land here is still owned by the government, so there is more than enough to settle land claims. After 1867 and the confederation of Canada it was somehow deemed necessary to push indigenous peoples off their land and force them to assimilate and it seems that this is when it became necessary to both infantilize and villainize them, to portray them as savages rather than trading partners. Had they not done that, the bigger project wouldn't have been acceptable. As a kid I only knew that my life was different than my cousins' because I grew up in the city. By that time the residential school was already closed -- we used to pass it on the way to my grandmother's house, but I didn't know what that big building was for until my mother thought I was old enough to know about it.

    It's odd that some of the same rules were imposed on the Scots, like they weren't allowed to gather in groups of more than 5 except for family, they weren't allowed to speak Gaelic (which my father's family did). I guess they were being discriminated against...possibly...but my father said it was because the Scots were considered subversive and if the rules were relaxed they would rebel, and they would have. But now both Gaelic and Mi'kmaq are taught in high school to any student who wants to learn the language. I think if you look at any colonial project, even self-colonizations, you'll find the same patterns including lack of recognition for land ownership, especially where it is collectively owned, suppression of languages and portrayal of people as "others". And unfortunately we still see the same patterns being followed today, not just in the rainforests of Brazil but in North American cities.

    So of course I agree with Prince Ea -- race is just a construct. It isn't natural to sort people like crayons and it isn't necessary unless there is ulterior agenda. Personally I think it keeps us from respecting people for more important reasons like their cultural heritage or their family history. These are the things that actually make us who we are.
     

    person

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Dec 20, 2005
    I had a huge long reply to this that took me 2 days to write and I guess it disappeared when the servers went down...because it was just before the servers went down. lol I'll try to be more succinct this time to avoid the servers going down.

    I live on the East Coast of Canada and the majority of my ancestors are First Nations people and Scots, on both sides of my family. But that means I did not grow up on a reserve but nobody in my family ever went to residential school and both of my parents knew the same indigenous language even though they grew up in different parts of the province. And we were raised a little differently. In particular we weren't told that people were sorted into races and I must have been at least 9 or 10 before I knew that. they call this non-interference now, and that's the way it was with many things -- you don't give information to children that isn't necessary and let them figure out their world on their own as much as possible.

    Most of the male Scots were indentured servants (sentenced for insurrection or fighting against the British or born into it) , and they got their freedom and a land grant for joining British regiments during the revolutionary war in US (many later became privateers because they had no education and the land was not that great). At that time the relationship with indigenous people in Nova Scotia was beneficial to both (and a lot of people got married, obviously) and it wasn't until after more companies and people came here that resources and land became "scarce" -- it isn't actually because most land here is still owned by the government, so there is more than enough to settle land claims. After 1867 and the confederation of Canada it was somehow deemed necessary to push indigenous peoples off their land and force them to assimilate and it seems that this is when it became necessary to both infantilize and villainize them, to portray them as savages rather than trading partners. Had they not done that, the bigger project wouldn't have been acceptable. As a kid I only knew that my life was different than my cousins' because I grew up in the city. By that time the residential school was already closed -- we used to pass it on the way to my grandmother's house, but I didn't know what that big building was for until my mother thought I was old enough to know about it.

    It's odd that some of the same rules were imposed on the Scots, like they weren't allowed to gather in groups of more than 5 except for family, they weren't allowed to speak Gaelic (which my father's family did). I guess they were being discriminated against...possibly...but my father said it was because the Scots were considered subversive and if the rules were relaxed they would rebel, and they would have. But now both Gaelic and Mi'kmaq are taught in high school to any student who wants to learn the language. I think if you look at any colonial project, even self-colonizations, you'll find the same patterns including lack of recognition for land ownership, especially where it is collectively owned, suppression of languages and portrayal of people as "others". And unfortunately we still see the same patterns being followed today, not just in the rainforests of Brazil but in North American cities.

    So of course I agree with Prince Ea -- race is just a construct. It isn't natural to sort people like crayons and it isn't necessary unless there is ulterior agenda. Personally I think it keeps us from respecting people for more important reasons like their cultural heritage or their family history. These are the things that actually make us who we are.
    Oh I lost a lot of stuff, too...the blip in the system affected a lot of ppl here, didn't it; kind of frustrating when you've spent time and effort in posting...
     

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