Creationism museum to be protested...

[dcentity2000]

See if this helps.

Hebrews 9

The Blood of Christ
11When Christ came as high priest of the good things that are already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not man-made, that is to say, not a part of this creation. 12He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption. 13The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. 14How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death,[c] so that we may serve the living God!
15For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

Bingo! Thankyou (and thankyou Joe too)



Rich::

 

[Saxsoon]

Danny, I could be totally misinterpreting God, but this thread has shown what free choice can bring. Would you rather have someone forced to love you live with you for all eternity, or someone who freely chose to give their life to you. I would choose the latter. That is why God allows us to choose. He realized what Free Will would bring, and that makes Love all the greater.

I have seen kids raised like me (Christian home) who have rejected the Bible and Christ. I have seen people like me who have been praising the Lord forever. It truly depends on the person.

 

[dannyh23]

I see you are not familar with the New Testament (New Covenant) between God and Jesus which reconciles God to man(kind).

I've very familiar with it. Are saying everything in the N.T. is correct, and everything in the O.T. is wrong, or that you pick and choose if one contradicts the other?

and since were talking about the N.T. now, what happens when the N.T. contradicts the N.T.?

 

[Buckalew11]

I don't believe God is a "tricky" God. I think God tells us very plainly about Himself in His Word. I think if someone thinks God is "tricky" and unclear, they should keep digging for Truth. If there is a God, on judgement day, giving an answer of "you tricked me" will work about as well as it would have worked with my parents when I had to answer to them.

 

[jimmiej]

I've very familiar with it. Are saying everything in the N.T. is correct, and everything in the O.T. is wrong, or that you pick and choose if one contradicts the other?

and since were talking about the N.T. now, what happens when the N.T. contradicts the N.T.?

Honestly, it doesn't sound like you understand NT Christianity. Are you familiar with the passage I quoted above?

 

[dannyh23]

I don't believe God is a "tricky" God. I think God tells us very plainly about Himself in His Word. I think if someone thinks God is "tricky" and unclear, they should keep digging for Truth. If there is a God, on judgement day, giving an answer of "you tricked me" will work about as well as it would have worked with my parents when I had to answer to them.

I understand where you are coming from, I really do. But in the end, all that any of us have is faith. Faith/religion has caused more wars and death than anything -- oh, and it stirs up DIS board members too!

The rest of this isn't directed to you personally, just the whole subject in my little opinion for whatever it's worth. We all have an opinion, and we are all free to agree or disagree with each other. In the end, it doesn't really matter because considering the billions of different things that could happen after we die, I'm *probably* wrong -- and I can admit it, because I *just don't know*.

NO ONE that I personally know has come back to life after being dead and told me what happened. If someone did and told me they saw a bunch of dead cows stampeding over them, I don't know if I would believe them. If someone did and told me they saw their dead Uncle Pete, I don't know if I would believe them. In both cases maybe they were *dreaming*.

Our founding fathers in their wisdom seperated church and state. We still have freedom of religion in this country -- this isn't Iran. We can each believe what we want happens when we die, and how we choose to live our lives while we are alive, as long as it doesn't violate a law. We are all free to believe in the tooth fairy, mother goose, even that Walt is frozen under the castle and will be unfrozen when cancer is cured. You can believe in a God that sends people to hell that don't believe in him. I can believe, as a comic once said, that an elephant comes in my room at night and puts Lincoln Logs in my sock drawer.

Some people believe in old books, some people believe the answer lies all within. In the end, all I can do is live a good life and try to leave the world in a better place than I left it. Maybe making a difference in someone elses life is all that matters. We are here to enjoy living, not to condemn others for what they happen to believe happens when they die.

You know how some people are good at concepts like art, math, science and others just aren't as good at some of them? Is there is a chance that there is a "faith" part of the brain, and that some people have an easier time with that concept that others? Perhaps some people have an easier time with that concept and they can "believe" easier, any maybe others can't. Maybe that's why some people just can't believe in God no matter what people say, even under the threat of eternal torture -- and maybe that's why some people change can their religion on a dime compared to who they talk to last.

Anyways, I know typing this little message isn't going to change anyone's mind about anything, and what someone else types isn't going to change my mind into accepting whatever religion they happen to believe. Personally, I'm not going to call someone a "Jesus Whacko", and I'm not going to condemn someone else to hell because they don't believe in the elephant that puts the lincoln logs in my sock drawer.

Good night all, it's been interesting reading your thoughts.

 

[Ariel Mae]

Ariel Mae, I respect your opinion. Let me tell you reality though. You never know how you'll raise your child until you have one. When you're responsible for a real life, your opinions may change. Just a voice of experience.

While I respect your opinion also, I respectfully, and wholeheartedly disagree. I believe you can plan, thoroughly, and know how you will raise your child, prior to even having conceived. Maternal instincts don't just 'kick in', in my view. They develop, over time, and once that blessing is in your life, they appear, full in bloom, evolving (adapting?) to that child. What was planned may not fully be attended to, but it does exist, just in an adapted (evolved? not quite sure) form.

I know I'm going to bring my child, male or female, into this world with a bright smile. I'm going to raise my child into every religion. (Okay, not 'every', but I will raise my child to find his/her own path, and to do things that they want to do, not because Sally Jane wants to do it. I want my kid to become who they were meant to be, not who Billy Joe was meant to be.) I know that's how I'm going to raise my kid, b/c that's how I was raised, and I've gotten so much out of an open minded life. I don't let things 'fly by' because I'm limited by my parents. I'm able, and always have been, to be myself, find myself, do things for me, and, in the end, I've opened my wings to the widest, and am glowing brightly. I want my children to be able to do the same thing: Open their wings and fly, not open their wings and fall.

 

[salmoneous]

but explaining in any detail how they intertwine or how the New Testament changes or supercedes certain things would take a lot of typing.

But Joe, you do a lot of typing on this board - that's no reason to not answer the question. You've been asked some variation of it over and over and over again. Why not take the time to answer?

You frequently present verses from the Bible - both old and new testaments - as God's word on how we should live our lives. But then there are numerous other verses in the Bible that you dismiss as not relevant. You continually pick and choose which verses are God's commandments to us today, and which you don't have to follow.

Are you just picking and choosing the ones you want to follow - or is there some coherent logical scheme you use to tell which verses to ignore, and which to tell other folks are commandments from God?

 

[meandtheguys2]

While I respect your opinion also, I respectfully, and wholeheartedly disagree. I believe you can plan, thoroughly, and know how you will raise your child, prior to even having conceived. Maternal instincts don't just 'kick in', in my view. They develop, over time, and once that blessing is in your life, they appear, full in bloom, evolving (adapting?) to that child. What was planned may not fully be attended to, but it does exist, just in an adapted (evolved? not quite sure) form.

I know I'm going to bring my child, male or female, into this world with a bright smile. I'm going to raise my child into every religion. (Okay, not 'every', but I will raise my child to find his/her own path, and to do things that they want to do, not because Sally Jane wants to do it. I want my kid to become who they were meant to be, not who Billy Joe was meant to be.) I know that's how I'm going to raise my kid, b/c that's how I was raised, and I've gotten so much out of an open minded life. I don't let things 'fly by' because I'm limited by my parents. I'm able, and always have been, to be myself, find myself, do things for me, and, in the end, I've opened my wings to the widest, and am glowing brightly. I want my children to be able to do the same thing: Open their wings and fly, not open their wings and fall.

Do you really see yourself as open-minded? That's interesting. I don't see that at all in you. I've done the whole freshmen in college superior thing. It is why I won't work with freshmen. They believe they know it all, and that they are original, while they are just following a different dogma. Maturity brings a lot to life.

You are still indoctrinating your child, you know. I mean, if you had one. You intend to raise it the same way you were raised. Not much different than what I am doing with my children.

So, keep glowing...find yourself...etc... Maybe you'll learn something useful.

 

[Buckalew11]

I understand where you are coming from, I really do. But in the end, all that any of us have is faith. Faith/religion has caused more wars and death than anything -- oh, and it stirs up DIS board members too!

The rest of this isn't directed to you personally, just the whole subject in my little opinion for whatever it's worth. We all have an opinion, and we are all free to agree or disagree with each other. In the end, it doesn't really matter because considering the billions of different things that could happen after we die, I'm *probably* wrong -- and I can admit it, because I *just don't know*.

NO ONE that I personally know has come back to life after being dead and told me what happened. If someone did and told me they saw a bunch of dead cows stampeding over them, I don't know if I would believe them. If someone did and told me they saw their dead Uncle Pete, I don't know if I would believe them. In both cases maybe they were *dreaming*.

Our founding fathers in their wisdom seperated church and state. We still have freedom of religion in this country -- this isn't Iran. We can each believe what we want happens when we die, and how we choose to live our lives while we are alive, as long as it doesn't violate a law. We are all free to believe in the tooth fairy, mother goose, even that Walt is frozen under the castle and will be unfrozen when cancer is cured. You can believe in a God that sends people to hell that don't believe in him. I can believe, as a comic once said, that an elephant comes in my room at night and puts Lincoln Logs in my sock drawer.

Some people believe in old books, some people believe the answer lies all within. In the end, all I can do is live a good life and try to leave the world in a better place than I left it. Maybe making a difference in someone elses life is all that matters. We are here to enjoy living, not to condemn others for what they happen to believe happens when they die.

You know how some people are good at concepts like art, math, science and others just aren't as good at some of them? Is there is a chance that there is a "faith" part of the brain, and that some people have an easier time with that concept that others? Perhaps some people have an easier time with that concept and they can "believe" easier, any maybe others can't. Maybe that's why some people just can't believe in God no matter what people say, even under the threat of eternal torture -- and maybe that's why some people change can their religion on a dime compared to who they talk to last.

Anyways, I know typing this little message isn't going to change anyone's mind about anything, and what someone else types isn't going to change my mind into accepting whatever religion they happen to believe. Personally, I'm not going to call someone a "Jesus Whacko", and I'm not going to condemn someone else to hell because they don't believe in the elephant that puts the lincoln logs in my sock drawer.

Good night all, it's been interesting reading your thoughts.

Those are some really nice thoughts and I appreciate your honesty and sharing of your ideas. Thanks for doing it in a respectable way and thought provoking way.

I have often wondered myself why some people seem to be able to accept and believe much easier than others. I had an atheist on this board tell me one time that she had searched and sought God but didn't find Him. I wondered how I so easily found Him. I am really not sure how all that works. I have about as simple of faith as one can have. God's Word is very plain to me and His presence is very real in my everyday life. I share my journey called life with Him. I struggle with God much more than I should (I am somewhat of a control freak) and have a hard time with that. But why is my faith so simple and others so hard or non-existent? I would like to know those answers also.

No one does know exactly what happens at death from a personal encounter. We know the Bible talks about it sorta vaguely but pointedly. If you are a believer, it says your then when the Lord. However, it does not go into great detail beyond that. If not, it doesn't say, I don't think. It speaks of what happens at Judgement but not before. I would like to believe a lot of things about death, life, dying, etc. in my own ways but for me, the Bible is Truth and I go with what it says. I have some good ideas of my own, mind you, but my ways and God's ways aren't always the same so I have to look at His Word for that direction. I have often said "if I were God, I'd be zapping people" (child molesters etc.) pretty quickly. I have my own ideas and I even compare my thoughts to His Word, but for me, even though I think "this would be nice, this would be terrible, this would be the better way to do it" etc. I know that God sees a bigger picture and is just and fair and I am sure my way would hit a big snafu along the way so I always look toward God for guidance. I may not like His way as much as my own, but that is something to work out.

Oh, and I do not believe in a God who sends people to Hell. I believe in a God who gives us a choice to choose. I think if it were all based on our goodness or good deeds then He'd be judging us and deciding to "send us to Heaven or to Hell". But since it is not based on whether you are good enough, I think that is about as fair as it gets.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

I've very familiar with it. Are saying everything in the N.T. is correct, and everything in the O.T. is wrong, or that you pick and choose if one contradicts the other?

and since were talking about the N.T. now, what happens when the N.T. contradicts the N.T.?

You aren't asking questions, you are making statements.

As someone else said, you don't sound like you are familiar with NT. Do you believe Jesus died for your sins?

 

[Kath2003]

Oh, and I do not believe in a God who sends people to Hell. I believe in a God who gives us a choice to choose. I think if it were all based on our goodness or good deeds then He'd be judging us and deciding to "send us to Heaven or to Hell". But since it is not based on whether you are good enough, I think that is about as fair as it gets.

So what happens if you choose AGAINST God?
And it's not *really* fair is it - Christianity relies on evangelism from other followers of the Christian faith. God doesn't hand out a copy of the Bible at birth - you have to be in a situation whereby it's socially acceptable for other religions to be discussed, practiced and even taught and the resources (other Christians, Bibles, books etc.) are available. What about people who don't hear about Christianity - what do THEY choose?

 

[RachelEllen]

Do a search for "gravitational theory" and see how many thousands of hits you get. Yes, the "Law of Gravity" has attained that status. But there is still so much to try to understand. My apologies for not being more clear on that.

This is a common confusion, but scientific "law" isn't a promotion from scientific "theory"

Here's a nice explanation:


http://wilstar.com/theories.htm

In short, laws are concise explanations of specific phenomenon. The laws of gravity are those short equations. Theories are explanations of complex phenomenon. They can contain laws.

 

[Pooh nut]

This thread has strayed slightly off target.

The only harm that can come from this museum is if they start forcing public schools to view this as scientific.

In the private realm it is just a church by another name.


Now back to the "my idea is better then yours" debate presented by Excedrin!

 

[Buckalew11]

If you hear and reject, then I think you have chosen your way. If you never hear, then I feel sure God judges the heart fairly. God knows if you honor a higher power but just do not call him by the names that we know. If you honor a false power, obviously, from Bible history, He knows that also and is not pleased with it. I think there is a bigger difference honoring the wrong thing and just getting the details wrong and I believe He'll know it and judge accordingly. Just my own thoughts and not necessarily any other Christian's viewpoint.

 

[Kath2003]

If you hear and reject, then I think you have chosen your way. If you never hear, then I feel sure God judges the heart fairly. God knows if you honor a higher power but just do not call him by the names that we know. If you honor a false power, obviously, from Bible history, He knows that also and is not pleased with it. I think there is a bigger difference honoring the wrong thing and just getting the details wrong and I believe He'll know it and judge accordingly. Just my own thoughts and not necessarily any other Christian's viewpoint.

So...
If you hear and reject, that's it.

But if you never hear, you're judged based on your values, morals, intentions?

Surely then it's beneficial NOT to hear, because then you're judged on what you truly are, not whether you choose to believe a certain set of beliefs.

If you don't hear, but hear of another set of beliefs and follow them, God is not pleased?

Really, you think this all knowing, all powerful, all loving God could have at least shown himself to 2/3 of the globe who DON'T follow Christianity...

 

[Buckalew11]

So...
If you hear and reject, that's it.

But if you never hear, you're judged based on your values, morals, intentions?

Surely then it's beneficial NOT to hear, because then you're judged on what you truly are, not whether you choose to believe a certain set of beliefs.

If you don't hear, but hear of another set of beliefs and follow them, God is not pleased?

Really, you think this all knowing, all powerful, all loving God could have at least shown himself to 2/3 of the globe who DON'T follow Christianity...

Upon your death, yes, I believe that is it.

No, if you have never heard I still do not believe God judges upon your values, morals and intentions (of good deeds anyway). I think you are judged upon what is on your heart. I believe we all search for something greater at some point in our lives. I think that is why we have all different kinds of beliefs--because people are searching. I think God will see what and why people were searching for and judge them accordingly.

I believe God does show Himself to everyone.

Is it more beneficial to not hear? Maybe, if you die and reject God. I know as a follower of Christ, I am more accountable for my actions than if I was a Christian. Same sort of thing, I guess.

I realize you disagree and many, many others do also. That is fine with me. I think we all have to sit down and think deeply about making that choice. I think, if there is a God, that when you (general) die, you should be at extreme peace with the decision you have made and the answers you may give. Make sure they are your own and not because of "all the hypocrites in the church" (btw, that was my excuse), because of "the man who may not have heard about God in Africa", etc.-- make sure they are your own reasons within your own heart. You are responsible for yourself and no one else. And no one else is responsible for your choice either (as in, well, grandma was devout so...)
I realize I sound narrow minded. I'm sorry about that. I'm getting my ideas from what I learn from Bible study. Trust me, this would not be my plan--however, mine would have too many flaws even though I *think* it'd be nicer and more accepting. If the Bible is wrong, so am I and I'll answer for it. I'm at peace with what I believe.

 

[Ariel Mae]

Do you really see yourself as open-minded? That's interesting. I don't see that at all in you. I've done the whole freshmen in college superior thing. It is why I won't work with freshmen. They believe they know it all, and that they are original, while they are just following a different dogma. Maturity brings a lot to life.

I'm very open minded. I don't discriminate, I don't mock, I'm accepting of all religions, cultures, races, peoples, and I'm always open for new things, trying new things, eating new things, meeting new people. What's not open minded about that? And what's superior about that? Besides, nothing...it's quite stereotypical to place all freshmen in the same boat. The title means nothing, anymore. It's just a label. Another, in my view, unnecessary label.

You are still indoctrinating your child, you know. I mean, if you had one. You intend to raise it the same way you were raised. Not much different than what I am doing with my children.

I intend to raise it the same way I was: Able to become who they were meant to be. I'm not forcing my way of life upon them. I'm giving them the opportunity. If they don't like it, fine. Move on. How I raise my child is my business.

So, keep glowing...find yourself...etc... Maybe you'll learn something useful.

I've learned a lot. I've matured a lot. I've grown up a lot. I also know that in how I raise my child is my decision, and how they come out is theirs. We play an influential part as parents, but there's only so much we can say or do. In the end, the child comes out as they were meant to be, on their own.

 

[Kath2003]

I believe God does show Himself to everyone.

Then why evangelise? Why are 2/3 of the world NOT Christian? Why would God allow over half the opulatiojn to be misled, and then punish them for it?

I realize you disagree and many, many others do also. That is fine with me. I think we all have to sit down and think deeply about making that choice. I think, if there is a God, that when you (general) die, you should be at extreme peace with the decision you have made and the answers you may give. Make sure they are your own and not because of "all the hypocrites in the church" (btw, that was my excuse), because of "the man who may not have heard about God in Africa", etc.-- make sure they are your own reasons within your own heart. You are responsible for yourself and no one else. And no one else is responsible for your choice either (as in, well, grandma was devout so...)

I do disagree. I believe that if your God is as loving and forgiving and all knowing and all powerful as you claim he is, he KNOWS why I can't believe in him. Further, if he is the creator of all things, he created the doubt in me that makes me unable to believe not only in him but any other diety.

Hypocrites are everywhere. It's unfortunate that they are more obvious to spot in a religious setting Sadly I would say honestly that about half the religious people I know are hypocrites. I do not judge everyone who follows that religion by them, however. I do think that if people don't have their eyes open to see the "bigger picture" that a few bad apples can easily taint your whole bunch, however.

I realize I sound narrow minded. I'm sorry about that. I'm getting my ideas from what I learn from Bible study. Trust me, this would not be my plan--however, mine would have too many flaws even though I *think* it'd be nicer and more accepting. If the Bible is wrong, so am I and I'll answer for it. I'm at peace with what I believe.

And likewise, I am peace with what I believe (i.e. in nothing).

 

[cardaway]

So...
If you hear and reject, that's it.

But if you never hear, you're judged based on your values, morals, intentions?

Surely then it's beneficial NOT to hear, because then you're judged on what you truly are, not whether you choose to believe a certain set of beliefs.

If you don't hear, but hear of another set of beliefs and follow them, God is not pleased?

Really, you think this all knowing, all powerful, all loving God could have at least shown himself to 2/3 of the globe who DON'T follow Christianity...

Makes you think twice about the "good news" spin doesn't it.