Crazy Airfares!!

I don’t think conditions will get anywhere near what you’re laying out here. If I did…. I’d be locked in a bunker with my stash of gold… and guns. You’re calling for the next Great Depression and Civil War wrapped into one. I see a recession….but the kind of dire predictions you stated..no. And the debt bubble prognosticators have been saying this for many years. It’s quite possible that the bubble deflates slightly without the implosion that some on the fringe would like to believe Is always imminent.
I bet you didn't even see the last recession coming or even know what was happening. You should have listened to the fringe. We all know history never repeats itself.....or does it? Civil unrest and Civil war are not synonymous. Do you honestly think there will never be another depression or another world war? Or is just not going to happen while you're alive. Since you always disagree with me I would love to know how you think this is all going to work out. What is your prediction and solution?
 
Don't limit yourself to one airline. That's the biggest mistake people make when booking that leads them to overpay. Look at what the competition is offering, and be flexible with your dates/days of the week.
My DH and I are going to Morocco this summer while our kids are at camp. The only we could get a decent flight itinerary was to book via Expedia. I think our round trip route includes 3 different airlines.
Broaden your departure and arrival city destinations. Fly to Sanford instead of Orlando. Drive to an alternative airport.
Several years ago we planned a trip to England with our kids. Normally, we fly out of DFW, which is about 40 minutes from home. We wanted to fly premium economy, which was really expensive. We saved about 2 grand driving 3 hours to Austin and flying out of the airport there. The bonus part was that the returning customs lines were way shorter than we normally experience at DFW airport.
 
I bet you didn't even see the last recession coming or even know what was happening. You should have listened to the fringe. We all know history never repeats itself.....or does it? Civil unrest and Civil war are not synonymous. Do you honestly think there will never be another depression or another world war? Or is just not going to happen while you're alive. Since you always disagree with me I would love to know how you think this is all going to work out. What is your prediction and solution?

And you’d be wrong that I didn't see the last recession coming. I pay very close attention to the news… financial news included. I have had subscriptions to the WSJ and FT for almost 20 years. I follow the news much more closely than my husband does. So when I started to talk a lot about my concerns about the housing bubble and the collapse of the bear sterns hedge fund… and then the news got increasingly worse in the fall…. We moved our entire nest egg into money market funds on November 7th 2007. We continued to contribute, but we’re out of the market. We thought it would be for a few months, but we didn’t get back in until the day after the inauguration in 2009. We didn’t hit the top, and the market didn’t bottom out until March of that year, but we missed out on 30+% of the decline. But I wouldn’t do that again…. We got lucky, and we’re not aggressive enough investors to actually short the markets. It’s easy to get out…. Much more stressful to figure out when to get back in. Had we stayed in the whole time, our nest egg would be a bit smaller, but it would have been less stressful, and ultimately we still would have been fine.

As for the future, I absolutely believe that we'll have more and more mass shootings. Where can I bet on that? Future world wars....possibly, depressions....sure...but as long as we have very active central banks not as likely. I believe that the great Civil War will continue to rage on social media for the most part....and drive a bigger and bigger wedge between the most fervent on either side....say 10-15% on each side, so 20-30% of the country will continue to scream at each other and wave stupid flags and play militia....ad nauseam. They'll continue to make it awful for the rest of us. Any talk of where the markets will end up in the next year or two is purely a guess...maybe a slightly educated guess. We're at 75% VTSAX and 25% in short term treasuries....at about 5 years out from retirement, 10 years out from having to touch our next egg. We're about 65% into building up a 5 year "emergency fund", which will act as our five year income stream once we stop working. We're 54 and 53, so we can work far beyond five years if necessary. My husband is 3/4 of the way through completing his application for dual citizenship with Italy which would allow us to move all over the EU, and work if necessary....and there's a lot of places over there where we enjoy spending time. Time is our most valuable asset...and you really start thinking about that in your 50s...at least we sure have. It's a good solid plan, with a lot of flexibility in it. We do believe a recession is coming and so our current contributions are going all in on VTSAX....as this is money we may not touch for 30 years. But we're leaving our core holdings alone, and no jumping in or out....we found that to be too stressful. And do you know where the market will be 30 years from now? Nope, me neither, but if you follow history, you'd know that the overwhelming odds will be that it's much, much higher. And so I'll take those odds any day.

What's your plan...when will the civil war start....when will the Great Depression begin? I'm curious what you think and how one times their investments for these scenarios.
 
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And you’d be wrong that I didn't see the last recession coming. I pay very close attention to the news… financial news included. I have had subscriptions to the WSJ and FT for almost 20 years. I follow the news much more closely than my husband does. So when I started to talk a lot about my concerns about the housing bubble and the collapse of the bear sterns hedge fund… and then the news got increasingly worse in the fall…. We moved our entire nest egg into money market funds on November 7th 2007. We continued to contribute, but we’re out of the market. We thought it would be for a few months, but we didn’t get back in until the day after the inauguration in 2009. We didn’t hit the top, and the market didn’t bottom out until March of that year, but we missed out on 30+% of the decline. But I wouldn’t do that again…. We got lucky, and we’re not aggressive enough investors to actually short the markets. It’s easy to get out…. Much more stressful to figure out when to get back in. Had we stayed in the whole time, our nest egg would be a bit smaller, but it would have been less stressful, and ultimately we still would have been fine.

As for the future, I absolutely believe that we'll have more and more mass shootings. Where can I bet on that? Future world wars....possibly, depressions....sure...but as long as we have very active central banks not as likely. I believe that the great Civil War will continue to rage on social media for the most part....and drive a bigger and bigger wedge between the most fervent on either side....say 10-15% on each side, so 20-30% of the country will continue to scream at each other and wave stupid flags and play militia....ad nauseam. They'll continue to make it awful for the rest of us. Any talk of where the markets will end up in the next year or two is purely a guess...maybe a slightly educated guess. We're at 75% VTSAX and 25% in short term treasuries....at about 5 years out from retirement, 10 years out from having to touch our next egg. We're about 65% into building up a 5 year "emergency fund", which will act as our five year income stream once we stop working. We're 54 and 53, so we can work far beyond five years if necessary. My husband is 3/4 of the way through completing his application for dual citizenship with Italy which would allow us to move all over the EU, and work if necessary....and there's a lot of places over there where we enjoy spending time. Time is our most valuable asset...and you really start thinking about that in your 50s...at least we sure have. It's a good solid plan, with a lot of flexibility in it. We do believe a recession is coming and so our current contributions are going all in on VTSAX....as this is money we may not touch for 30 years. But we're leaving our core holdings alone, and no jumping in or out....we found that to be too stressful. And do you know where the market will be 30 years from now? Nope, me neither, but if you follow history, you'd know that the overwhelming odds will be that it's much, much higher. And so I'll take those odds any day.

What's your plan...when will the civil war start....when will the Great Depression begin? I'm curious what you think and how one times their investments for these scenarios.
I’ve never said we’ll have a civil war I said civil unrest. Those are too very different things. You would expect that with food and energy shortages. If you visioninng a civil war that didn’t come from me.

It’s way too complicated to get into for this forum.
 

I’ve never said we’ll have a civil war I said civil unrest. Those are too very different things. You would expect that with food and energy shortages. If you visioninng a civil war that didn’t come from me.

It’s way too complicated to get into for this forum.

Ok..Civil Unrest. But you did ask me.... sort of incredulously....if I thought that there wouldn't be another World War or Great Depression. I answered those questions. Do you think those things will happen in your lifetime? You didn't give your thoughts on the timing of that, which you seem to have some ideas about. Or how you're investing for the darker version of the future that you're hinting at. Or how long this period of civil unrest and food/fuel scarcity will last. I'm honestly curious how you see the next 5-10 years unfolding on those fronts.
 
Boy this thread has done some weird twisting and turning.

From airfare pricing discussion (and tips on how to reduce the cost) to fast food costs to recession to unemployment to investing in stocks to the housing market to civil unrest. Whew and there's def. more in there.






Observationally while there are higher fares not every ticket is on the extreme. Checking our flying days of May 4th and May 15th there is a non-stop that is the same price as it was on release day in December. It's gone up and down like normal but is available for $169 each way. Our flight on the way home is $169 same as release day but in March it was as low as $119 but it's been as high as $220-ish over time. Our fight on May 4th is decently more than we paid ($363 vs $169 however I had seen it be $250 before a while back then it went back down in price) but the last flight (also a non-stop) is $169 which had also been as low as $119 but as high as $230 or so.

My husband flew with 5 days notice to Orlando this past Wednesday coming back Thursday and it was Anytime Fare RT of $1,300. Given the short notice, given the Anytime Fare, and given that our airport the Anytime Fare and Business Select have generally always been $500-$700 per way it's not really all that different. That does not in any way meant to say some generically but just that it depends.
 
Ok..Civil Unrest. But you did ask me.... sort of incredulously....if I thought that there wouldn't be another World War or Great Depression. I answered those questions. Do you think those things will happen in your lifetime? You didn't give your thoughts on the timing of that, which you seem to have some ideas about. Or how you're investing for the darker version of the future that you're hinting at. Or how long this period of civil unrest and food/fuel scarcity will last. I'm honestly curious how you see the next 5-10 years unfolding on those fronts.
If oil prices do reach 200 dollars a barrel I see unimaginable suffering around the globe. I think airfare will be the least of our worries. It really won’t matter how many millions you have in the bank it will change the whole makeup of society. The average household salary in this country is somewhere around 50-60k. The majority of the people will simply not be able to make ends meet. Those of us then can are going to be cutting back on things we don’t need.
I do see the war expanding in Europe over the next two years. Last Fall I started reading about Russia dumping US dollars that was a red flag something was coming.
If things continue along this trajectory I don’t see the next 5 to 10 years being very pleasant. At this point in time I dont see any indication that world leaders are going to change this course we’re on.
 
/
Boy this thread has done some weird twisting and turning.

From airfare pricing discussion (and tips on how to reduce the cost) to fast food costs to recession to unemployment to investing in stocks to the housing market to civil unrest. Whew and there's def. more in there.






Observationally while there are higher fares not every ticket is on the extreme. Checking our flying days of May 4th and May 15th there is a non-stop that is the same price as it was on release day in December. It's gone up and down like normal but is available for $169 each way. Our flight on the way home is $169 same as release day but in March it was as low as $119 but it's been as high as $220-ish over time. Our fight on May 4th is decently more than we paid ($363 vs $169 however I had seen it be $250 before a while back then it went back down in price) but the last flight (also a non-stop) is $169 which had also been as low as $119 but as high as $230 or so.

My husband flew with 5 days notice to Orlando this past Wednesday coming back Thursday and it was Anytime Fare RT of $1,300. Given the short notice, given the Anytime Fare, and given that our airport the Anytime Fare and Business Select have generally always been $500-$700 per way it's not really all that different. That does not in any way meant to say some generically but just that it depends.
We’ll in a round about way it’s all interrelated. LOL. All my flights this Summer are booked with miles and I booked them months ago. I would like to change one of my flights, but I’m not finding any low mileage fares.
 
Just flew back from Orlando at 6:45 am and I have never, ever seen an airport so busy. There is no way some of those people waiting in the sea of people for tsa made their flights. Our car service guy said it's been this busy since the pandemic cooled and travel picked up.

Prices aren't stopping people from traveling yet, that's for sure.
 
Most leisure travelers probably book at least a couple of months in advance. Let's see what MCO looks like in June/July.
Wonder how far in advance folks actually do book in advance normally. About a year for us for cruises. 18 months ahead once.
 
Wonder how far in advance folks actually do book in advance normally. About a year for us for cruises. 18 months ahead once.
Well, since the post I was replying to was talking about how busy MCO was, and the thread is about airfare (although it's meandered a little), my post was specifically about airfare. In order to see if the high airfare now being sold has limited travel, we need to wait (IMO).
 
Well, since the post I was replying to was talking about how busy MCO was, and the thread is about airfare (although it's meandered a little), my post was specifically about airfare. In order to see if the high airfare now being sold has limited travel, we need to wait (IMO).
Same question I guess. When we went to the U.K. in 2014 we booked our flights a year in advance. Primarily because our daughter's student Visa required her return flight be booked that far in advance.
 
Just heard on FOX News that apparently there is a pilot shortage. What's next? So many shortages...So some airlines are bussing people from more remote or smaller airports to larger airports to (for want of a better word) consolidate flights. I wonder what this will do to the cost of flying.

Personally, I don't want to fly anywhere at this time, people are just too crazy right now. I would much rather drive or just say home then to be faced with some of the crazy shenanigans I've seen on TV.
 
Same question I guess. When we went to the U.K. in 2014 we booked our flights a year in advance. Primarily because our daughter's student Visa required her return flight be booked that far in advance.
Please note, 1) I said "most" not "all". 2) I said "leisure" travelers, not "all". I was referring to those taking vacation.

And 3) Even legacy airlines don't open up flights until 330 days in advance, so 11 months, not a year. :crazy:
 
Please note, 1) I said "most" not "all". 2) I said "leisure" travelers, not "all". I was referring to those taking vacation.

And 3) Even legacy airlines don't open up flights until 330 days in advance, so 11 months, not a year. :crazy:
The Visa issue might have made a difference. However the flight times did change for the return flght.
 
If oil prices do reach 200 dollars a barrel I see unimaginable suffering around the globe. I think airfare will be the least of our worries. It really won’t matter how many millions you have in the bank it will change the whole makeup of society. The average household salary in this country is somewhere around 50-60k. The majority of the people will simply not be able to make ends meet. Those of us then can are going to be cutting back on things we don’t need.
I do see the war expanding in Europe over the next two years. Last Fall I started reading about Russia dumping US dollars that was a red flag something was coming.
If things continue along this trajectory I don’t see the next 5 to 10 years being very pleasant. At this point in time I dont see any indication that world leaders are going to change this course we’re on.

Well, if oil hits $200 per barrel, that would put gas prices here close to $6 per gallon and demand would absolutely crater....and prices will come down. We've been here before, in 2008 where prices didn't get nearly that high....and within six months oil was below $40 a gallon. Those prices aren't sustainable. Will there be pain...yes. Is it possible we have a 5-10 year period with little gains in the markets...yes, of course. We saw that in the 2000s. Look at how the markets have performed over the last ten years...it's overvalued and due for a pullback to get P/E ratios out of the stratosphere. These periods of volatility and uncertainty have happened before, several times in my 30 years of investing...and they'll happen again.
 
Well, if oil hits $200 per barrel, that would put gas prices here close to $6 per gallon and demand would absolutely crater....and prices will come down. We've been here before, in 2008 where prices didn't get nearly that high....and within six months oil was below $40 a gallon. Those prices aren't sustainable. Will there be pain...yes. Is it possible we have a 5-10 year period with little gains in the markets...yes, of course. We saw that in the 2000s. Look at how the markets have performed over the last ten years...it's overvalued and due for a pullback to get P/E ratios out of the stratosphere. These periods of volatility and uncertainty have happened before, several times in my 30 years of investing...and they'll happen a
Gas is already 6 dollars in some states. You keep comparing this to 2008. This is nothing like 2008. There is absolutely nothing similar to 2008 and today. You seem to focus on the market a lot, but the majority of the population is not in the stock market. A very high percentage of the population lives paycheck to paycheck and all they are worried about is putting food on the table. When I say there will be suffering I'm not referring to wealthy people losing their stock portfolios.
 
Gas is already 6 dollars in some states. You keep comparing this to 2008. This is nothing like 2008. There is absolutely nothing similar to 2008 and today. You seem to focus on the market a lot, but the majority of the population is not in the stock market. A very high percentage of the population lives paycheck to paycheck and all they are worried about is putting food on the table. When I say there will be suffering I'm not referring to wealthy people losing their stock portfolios.

I’m 54 years old…my father was a UPS driver…my mother stayed home until we were in middle school. I’m a child of the 70s…lower middle class/borderline middle class upbringing when my mother went to work We went on food stamps when my father went on strike. I’m aware of that existence.

There’s always suffering….always will be. Those of us who can give to help others should do so. And we’ve always had 70%+ of Americans living paycheck to paycheck.
That doesn’t mean that people can’t focus on their own financial situation while thinking about and actively giving to help others.

This is another period of turmoil…and we’ll ultimately recover from it. This is just another version of the “This time is different.” mantra. I was reminded of a great quote from John Bogle the other day…”Don’t do something!! Just stand there.”

Whatever your plan is moving forward in these challenging times…I wish you the best .
 

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