Crazy Airfares!!

[Lisa_lvspplmvr]

United prices are definitely higher when you book Friday -Sunday . Try again midweek . Good luck ! I know it’s so frustrating!

 

[mikehn]

We went day drinking at a tiki bar yesterday, 2 titos, 3 meyers, a house chard, and a coors light, $73 with tip. Ouch. But it was fun. Will I skimp? I doubt it.

 

[tvguy]

Make up your mind. Are we supposed to get what we like or are we supposed to get cheap? While they're not mutually exclusive, they're not always in line with each other.

There's a famous phrase... good, fast, or cheap. Pick two.

All three. Not a problem if you look....... is my point.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Looking at the prices, I wonder - the prices are only really going up if there are as many flights and spots on planes to move bodies per day on the same routes now as in 2019. Anyone know? Were craft removed during 2020-2021 throughout the industry and not restored? It's not like they get penalized for mistreating customers so it's an easy way to increase returns without a downside to the business. Operations are expensive so fewer older craft with fewer seats drives up prices and per flight profits go through the roof.... not like anyone in the businesse's conscience will keep them up nights for putting people on older craft or overcrowding : /

If there are smaller fleets or if fewer planes are in the air on any given day prices can be pushed up artificaly to squeeze Americans, seems like limiting demand to mess with prices is a theme lately in all sectors & industries.

 

[mrs. magoo]

I booked our August trip on Friday because it was the first time I saw round trip flights for less than 600 each. I was able to get Buffalo to Orlando for 420 a person. I grabbed them and they have already gone up since then. My daughter is doing a geology trip to the Mojave Desert and we had to wait to purchase her ticket due to her lacrosse schedule we just spent 700 on that trip. The cheapest she could find on other sites was 630 but did not include bags so it would have been the same amount on Southwest. I looked at Frontier and Spirit but they only fly 3 days a week out of Buffalo and I was so afraid that they would cancel and then we would be stuck. I miss the days of 39 flights on Air Tran.

 

[john7994]

Looking at the prices, I wonder - the prices are only really going up if there are as many flights and spots on planes to move bodies per day on the same routes now as in 2019. Anyone know? Were craft removed during 2020-2021 throughout the industry and not restored? It's not like they get penalized for mistreating customers so it's an easy way to increase returns without a downside to the business. Operations are expensive so fewer older craft with fewer seats drives up prices and per flight profits go through the roof.... not like anyone in the businesse's conscience will keep them up nights for putting people on older craft or overcrowding : /

If there are smaller fleets or if fewer planes are in the air on any given day prices can be pushed up artificaly to squeeze Americans, seems like limiting demand to mess with prices is a theme lately in all sectors & industries.

Industry related statistics indicate 30% less flying seat capacity as compared to 2019 at the same time as now (Depending on where you look) - airfares have jumped disproportionately +30% due to demand for travel, fuel costs, and pilot shortages (reducing the number of inventory seats available).

 

[Robbie Cottam]

I just looked up airfare to visit my sister and nephew that live in orlando i live in new jersey i go out of newark i looked up united coach class i looked up for july my nephew's birthday united ewr-mco round trip coach is $867!!!!! what in the world is wrong with these airlines???!!!!!OMG!!!!

Have you bought gas lately?

just so you know that big only jet airliner burn 8000 lbs an hour. That’s about 1200 gallons at about 8 bucks a gallon…

this is not an airline problem the is an administration problem….

you want cheap airfare …. Call you senator and congressman

 

[dvcgirl67]

Have you bought gas lately?

just so you know that big only jet airliner burn 8000 lbs an hour. That’s about 1200 gallons at about 8 bucks a gallon…

this is not an airline problem the is an administration problem….

you want cheap airfare …. Call you senator and congressman

Call Vladimir Putin while you're at it.

 

[MrsPete]

DH and I are roughly 4-5 years out from retirement and so we're watching this period very closely ... We'd like to not touch the nest egg for as long as possible. Even though our projections are conservative....this is a bit of a wake-up call for sure in how our retirement years/spending can be affected.

I'm 26 days out from retirement, and I'm thinking along the same lines: I'll have my pension, but I'm in my mid-50s and can't touch my nest egg yet (most of which is locked up until 59 1/2) and Social Security is still years away. Realistically, I'm going to get a part-time job to make up the difference; it's the sensible choice.

There is no way in hell I'm waiting for 5-7 weeks out in the HOPE that prices go down.

I am a firm believer in stalking prices as soon as you THINK you'll be taking a trip.

I've never had the magic touch when it comes to finding low air fares, but -- yes -- I don't like to wait in hopes of better prices. On the other hand, when it comes to cruises, I don't mind checking every single morning when I sit down at my computer, and I've often "won" through dogged persistence.

High interest rates aren’t bad we have just been conditioned to buy payments and go into debt. There’s really know way around it anymore.

Agree that we're conditioned to believe that debt /payments are normal.

My parents were upper middle class and I only flew a couple of times in the 70 and 80’s. Flying was a big deal. Families took road trips. My kids have been on a plane more times than I count. I’d say close to 50 times. They are 17 and 19.

Well, I'm a little different because my parents both worked for the airlines when I was a young child, so I flew quite a bit during the 70s.

One big mistake is to ever believe anything the Fed says.

Agree that we're getting mixed signals these days. If we're in such bad shape, how is it that I see new construction businesses all around me?

If I go out I'm getting alcohol appetizers and the works or I'm not going out. What's the point. I can eat boring at home.

Disagree. I don't have any taste for alcohol, and I can't eat an appetizer and an entree -- but that doesn't mean eating out is boring. That's a sad commentary.

Chick Fil A has a value menu.....at least here.

Our CFA doesn't have a value meal, and that's a hard place to get a value meal (or a small meal). On the other hand, my daughter and I went out to Wendy's a couple days ago, and we both ate for $6.09. No, that's not true ... after we ate, she went back up and bought a cookie; she paid for that, so I don't know how much it cost, but I'd guess about $1.

They had a sign up on the Wendy's saying they're having a breakfast-biscuit sandwich for $1. It's hard to beat that at home -- so if you just buy the biscuit and drink made-at-home-coffee, that's a pretty good price.

When people don’t eat out anymore those jobs are gone.

Or when these food places automate most jobs.

If people don't eat out, correct. I was amazed at home many of my co-workers never ever cook at home. The trend could change, but not sure it will.

Pre-pandemic some of my co-workers brought in restaurant left-overs 2-3 times a week. That's an expensive habit.

And some people are just pathetic. I have a cousin -- not a paragon of virtue or common sense for sure -- who takes his family to Golden Coral every payday. His wife takes her big purse, and they steal fried chicken and rolls. When that's gone, they eat combo meals from various fast food restaurants, and when they're out of money -- well, they just don't eat until the next payday. Their older children get free breakfast and lunch at school, and sometimes they have crackers and dry cereal in the house for the toddlers. DSS knows the family well.

Thing is, once they were out of money, they'd come over to my grandmother's house to scam a meal from her (on her limited income). My grandmother and I tried to help them learn to cook a few simple things -- and I gave them a crockpot. They weren't interested /said it was too much trouble /are satisfied enough with their system.

All three. Not a problem if you look....... is my point.

At some restaurants you can eat cheaply IF you choose carefully or if you have a coupon.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Why I don’t think he has as much pull with this administration….

No, I don't think he does....should he? My point was that the "special military operation" he launched....aka, full scale war.....has a bit to do with fuel prices rising to these levels. But as others have pointed out there's a labor shortage that is curtailing the number of flights...that is driving prices up. Airlines are having to pay pilots/workers more in salary and bonuses as well. Also, these same conditions: inflation/labor shortage/supply chain issues....are happening all over the world. It's not an "US only" situation. This idea that if we simply pump as much oil/gas as humanly possible we would magically fix all of our issues, including high airfares, is magical thinking. It would be great it that was the case, but it's not. It's a part of a very complex global economy that is recovering from massive stimulus injected into the system to combat the worst pandemic in over a century. There are going to be bumps in the road coming out of it.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

No, I don't think he does....should he? My point was that the "special military operation" he launched....aka, full scale war.....has a bit to do with fuel prices rising to these levels. But as others have pointed out there's a labor shortage that is curtailing the number of flights...that is driving prices up. Airlines are having to pay pilots/workers more in salary and bonuses as well. Also, these same conditions: inflation/labor shortage/supply chain issues....are happening all over the world. It's not an "US only" situation. This idea that if we simply pump as much oil/gas as humanly possible we would magically fix all of our issues, including high airfares, is magical thinking. It would be great it that was the case, but it's not. It's a part of a very complex global economy that is recovering from massive stimulus injected into the system to combat the worst pandemic in over a century. There are going to be bumps in the road coming out of it.

I find it interesting that you are trying to explain the aviation industry to an aviation expert.
The pilot shortage is nothing new. It pre dates the pandemic by about 5 years. However the biggest line item in any airlines P&L statement is FUEL.

Leaving the politics out of this complete, prior to Putin being a total jack whole, Global Oil supply was down 30 percent and price were up. Prices have rose an additional 40 percent since then.

The airlines keep prices low as long as they could now they had had to make prices corrections….

Unless and until airlines get some type of subsidy prices will continue to rise. As more airline merge prices will also rises as markets become underserved.

By the way, as you pointed out, the supply chain that brings that fuel to the airport, burns the same fuel. Called something different, not quite as expensive but still up almost most 70 percent in the last 16 months.

 

[dvcgirl67]

I find it interesting that you are trying to explain the aviation industry to an aviation expert.
The pilot shortage is nothing new. It pre dates the pandemic by about 5 years. However the biggest line item in any airlines P&L statement is FUEL.

Leaving the politics out of this complete, prior to Putin being a total jack whole, Global Oil supply was down 30 percent and price were up. Prices have rose an additional 40 percent since then.

The airlines keep prices low as long as they could now they had had to make prices corrections….

Unless and until airlines get some type of subsidy prices will continue to rise. As more airline merge prices will also rises as markets become underserved.

By the way, as you pointed out, the supply chain that brings that fuel to the airport, burns the same fuel. Called something different, not quite as expensive but still up almost most 70 percent in the last 16 months.

Right...fuel is the biggest expense. Totally get that. How about the other side of the ledger....business travel, that subsidized ultra cheap leisure travel for years is not back to pre-pandemic levels...not even close. And if the oil spigots were set to wide open, prices are still going to be elevated for some time due to labor shortages/supply chain issues... in the oil and gas sector. My point is that it's not a one sector, one country, one government issue. It's a world-wide dilemma that is going to take some time to iron out...most importantly, sopping up the massive amount of excess currency pumped into the global economy. There will be pain for some time and it will definitely hurt those on the lower end of the income spectrum the most. Same old story.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Oddly enough, those business traveler, have found out that it is more cost effective, to travel privately.

Also the Airlines that dont have a business class to subsides to economy fares have still have to raise their prices almost 4 fold to pay for fuel.

i promise you airlines are not paying their pilots 4 times more.
i promise you airlines have not doubled the pilots salaries.

however, every single thing you see on that airplane was brought to the airport by diesel fuel.
you bag is brought to and from the plane by diesel fuel.
the plane is pushed back by diesel fuel.

if you think prices are bad now they are only going to get worst.

but back to the OP’s comment and my first post….

this is not something wrong with the airlines…..

it is a simple consequence of multiple fuel related factors over the last 14 to 16 months

 

[runwad]

Sometimes you have to go out of your comfort zone and do things differently when it's warranted. Like go to Google Flights Explore, put in your city you'd fly out of and see what cheap destination you can fly to and the dates those fares are offered and then start planning your trips backwards. That's what we've done to combat high air fare.

 

[JBRB828]

I booked last October EWR to MCO $2344 for 5 people. I also added Economy Plus for all, not included in that price. My husband and son are tall.

 

[goofy4prez]

Call Vladimir Putin while you're at it.

Prices were already sky-high and climbing before he decided to start a war. Putin is only a small piece of this puzzle.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

I booked last October EWR to MCO $2344 for 5 people. I also added Economy Plus for all, not included in that price. My husband and son are tall.

That’s actually a really good price….

 

[dvcgirl67]

Oddly enough, those business traveler, have found out that it is more cost effective, to travel privately.

Also the Airlines that dont have a business class to subsides to economy fares have still have to raise their prices almost 4 fold to pay for fuel.

i promise you airlines are not paying their pilots 4 times more.
i promise you airlines have not doubled the pilots salaries.

however, every single thing you see on that airplane was brought to the airport by diesel fuel.
you bag is brought to and from the plane by diesel fuel.
the plane is pushed back by diesel fuel.

if you think prices are bad now they are only going to get worst.

Well, how much worse?

I'm not an aviation expert like you, but I have an understanding of how supply and demand works. I've heard lots of talk on CNBC about CEOs reporting that so far they've been able to "pass along increased costs to consumers". And they'll continue to do that....until they see demand drop precipitously....which will eventually happen. Two years ago it seemed like Peloton and Netflix could do no wrong...until people started to venture out of their homes again and sales/subscriptions plummeted. People are traveling now, but it's by far leisure travel that is spiking demand right now. If the airlines continue to boost prices into the stratosphere it's really pretty simple...people will stop flying, and they'll be forced to lower their prices.

This whole thread started when the OP reported that the usual United flight he takes was over $800 from EWR to MCO. A few posters pointed out that there were lots of flights in the $300s. So, people who want to pay less may need to be more flexible. In January, before the war in Ukraine started I was able to snag RT business class seats for two separate trips for less than we've paid for previous trips in the front of the plane. I wouldn't pay for those seats now as the price has really gone up, but we'd still take the trip...probably flying in premium economy. But if prices continue to rise for economy seats, once demand drops as the novelty of post-pandemic travel wears off (and that will happen)....people will simply stay home because they won't be able to afford it.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I just booked Boston to Vancouver round trip for $313, so it's not everything that's insane.

 

[DCLMP]

I'm 26 days out from retirement, and I'm thinking along the same lines: I'll have my pension, but I'm in my mid-50s and can't touch my nest egg yet (most of which is locked up until 59 1/2) and Social Security is still years away. Realistically, I'm going to get a part-time job to make up the difference; it's the sensible choice.

I've never had the magic touch when it comes to finding low air fares, but -- yes -- I don't like to wait in hopes of better prices. On the other hand, when it comes to cruises, I don't mind checking every single morning when I sit down at my computer, and I've often "won" through dogged persistence.

Agree that we're conditioned to believe that debt /payments are normal.

Well, I'm a little different because my parents both worked for the airlines when I was a young child, so I flew quite a bit during the 70s.

Agree that we're getting mixed signals these days. If we're in such bad shape, how is it that I see new construction businesses all around me?

Disagree. I don't have any taste for alcohol, and I can't eat an appetizer and an entree -- but that doesn't mean eating out is boring. That's a sad commentary.

Our CFA doesn't have a value meal, and that's a hard place to get a value meal (or a small meal). On the other hand, my daughter and I went out to Wendy's a couple days ago, and we both ate for $6.09. No, that's not true ... after we ate, she went back up and bought a cookie; she paid for that, so I don't know how much it cost, but I'd guess about $1.

They had a sign up on the Wendy's saying they're having a breakfast-biscuit sandwich for $1. It's hard to beat that at home -- so if you just buy the biscuit and drink made-at-home-coffee, that's a pretty good price.

Or when these food places automate most jobs.

Pre-pandemic some of my co-workers brought in restaurant left-overs 2-3 times a week. That's an expensive habit.

And some people are just pathetic. I have a cousin -- not a paragon of virtue or common sense for sure -- who takes his family to Golden Coral every payday. His wife takes her big purse, and they steal fried chicken and rolls. When that's gone, they eat combo meals from various fast food restaurants, and when they're out of money -- well, they just don't eat until the next payday. Their older children get free breakfast and lunch at school, and sometimes they have crackers and dry cereal in the house for the toddlers. DSS knows the family well.

Thing is, once they were out of money, they'd come over to my grandmother's house to scam a meal from her (on her limited income). My grandmother and I tried to help them learn to cook a few simple things -- and I gave them a crockpot. They weren't interested /said it was too much trouble /are satisfied enough with their system.

At some restaurants you can eat cheaply IF you choose carefully or if you have a coupon.

It’s always been possible to do things “cheaply“ eat with coupons, skip alcohol or don’t order an appetizer. That wasn’t even the point. The point was regardless of your dining habits things cost a lot more then they did a year ago. Not 2% more, but A LOT more. How this turned into a debate about about how people like to dine or their personal food choices is beyond me.
Real wages are cratering and none of this had to happen. On the hand maybe should be happy we can just find food to eat because a year from now that might not be possible.