Crash beats Brokeback!!! Yay!

[mtemm]

Ummm, wisdom says I don't debate my D S-I-L!!! Seacrest out!

chicken!

and, um, I'll refrain from asking what the D in DSIL means. lol.

 

[Peter Pirate]

Pirates Of The Carribean changed my life more than Brokeback Mountain or Crash, not there was anything wrong with either of them, just don't get patronizing about what is art and what isn't, thats kind of a personal call isn't it?

 

[HomeSweetDisney]

Your statements defy logic.

Good people can sometimes do bad things. This does not make them intrinsically evil. It makes them flawed human beings, just like the rest of us.

Adultery does not make someone irreedemably evil and undeserving of sympathy ever, for any reason.

Selfishness (something which we have all been guilty of at some point in our lives) does not make us permanently and fatally flawed.

And if "being a *******" were a crime, 90% of the world's population would be in jail at one time or another, leaving only toddlers and babies to run the world.

Acknowledging that essentially good people can sometimes do very terrible things does not mean that we condone the behavior, approve of it, are desensitized to it, or have learned to accept it. It means we accept that our human nature is such that sometimes essentially good people can sometimes do very terrible things.

You have said some mean-spirited things in this thread. However, that does not necessarily mean you are a mean person. You're just flawed like the rest of us.

Very well said

 

[LukenDC]

If you ran for office, I'd vote for you! Nicely written!

Thank you, RobinMarie! You made my day.

 

[toto2]

Pirates Of The Carribean changed my life more than Brokeback Mountain or Crash, not there was anything wrong with either of them, just don't get patronizing about what is art and what isn't, thats kind of a personal call isn't it?

You are reading way too much into what i am saying !

There is no doubt that Pirates is art , and good art at that. And I am more than happy to learn it changed your life ( and I am very curious as to how, since we never know what makes other people go Wow ! I think I will be starting a thread about movies that changed our lifes , and hope to see you there !) We all go to the movies for different reasons , and none are better than the other.

 

[spoon full of sugar]

Jenny as I said the murderers in CSI are the BAD GUYS. The pimp in hustle and flow is the GOOD GUY. Is that simple enough? When you create a sympathitic character with behavorial patterns that are contrary to the natural survival of the species you screw up the belief systems of the culture. Hasn't anyone here taken basic Anthropology???

A perfect exmple of this is the "rebel without a cause" that came out of the dreaded 50's. This is a personality type which gives nothing to the society in which it lives. It just takes like any parasite in nature. Pimps are of this personality type. Do you want your children or grandchildren to venerate some pimp character from a movie the way people now love James Dean? It is the EXACT same thing.

You probably won't believe that because you have grown up believing "the rebel" is some one to be looked up to. Why? What does this type of person do for society or his own family? This is the type of person who vandalizes others property with no thought to the person who worked for it. He seduces young girls (usually under age since they don't know any better) and then leaves them. Does not care for his offspring, how could he, since he refuses to have a job? Etc..

This is why you can't say "it's just a movie". No, it is the begining of a shift in social mores. The movies, books and art of a society is like a siesmograph, it records the shifts in perseptions and beliefs. The acceptance of behavours in a society are always reflected in it's art.

This is why the leader of some gay rights group I can't think of the name of (doesn't really pertain to me didn't pay that much attention) has said that their "agenda" (sorry if he didn't send you all the memo) is to get gays into the public eye as much as possible. The more gays are seen in TV shows and movies, the more they will be percieved as normal to all those straight people out there. I kid you not. If I can find the link I'll post it. Now I'm not saying that gays shouldn't be accepted into society, what I am saying is that if he can understand how this works, why can't you? My problem with this is the pimp culture being validated and adulterery being validated because they were gay and had to . Sorry if I jumped around to much for some of you to follow. Real life is complicated.

 

[JennyMominRI]

A perfect exmple of this is the
You probably won't believe that because you have grown up believing "the rebel" is some one to be looked up to. Why? What does this type of person do for society or his own family? This is the type of person who vandalizes others property with no thought to the person who worked for it. He seduces young girls (usually under age since they don't know any better) and then leaves them. Does not care for his offspring, how could he, since he refuses to have a job? Etc..
:

I 'm not sure why you think that I look up to rebels.. I've always been a straight arrow who liked the straight arrows.. I'm a Marine,which is as establishment as you can get ,certainly not someone rebelious I've never grown up believing a rebel should be looked up to..I've never seen reel without a cause,Hate movies like the outsiders and I seriously doubt I will ever even watch Hustle and Flow...It's just not my kind of movie..Now I will watch Brokeback Mountain because it interests me. Incidentally I've also never seen Bridges of Madison County ..You make a lot of assumptions

 

[Peter Pirate]

toto, you clarified your POV by adding that POC was art (making my post "rather superfluous, really")...I will gladly post on your thread should time allow.

Spoon, welcome to corporate America. Everything is about Public Relations and good publicity. Don't blame Gay or Minoritiy activists for exploiting what America responds to. However Hollywood is there to make art and money, sometimes as a byproduct, sometimes as sole intent (and occasionally with no nod to the dollar at all). But whatever a Gay rights leader says or implies has no bearing on the ramifications or quality of Brokeback Mountain. It's entertainment pure and simple and should be judged thusly.

Further comparisons are ridiculous unless you think slasher movies have led to an increase in real life slashers or teenage 'coming of age' movies caused an increase in teenage sexual experimentation, and the list can go on and on.

 

[gina2000]

So whose morality do we follow? Yours? The guy's down the street? My mother in law's? The state's?

Now you are suggesting that we mandate morality and ethics in our films as representing real life that you or another deems acceptable. Who died and left you boss? You can't legislate morals. And you shouldn't unless you wish to become a closed society. It hasn't worked too well in many parts of the world. Why would you think it will work better here?

We all understand what you are suggesting. If a film doesn't meet the moral and ethical standards of your mandated utopian society, then it should not be recognized as art. How soon will it be before it will be banned, banished and deigned corruption by that same society?

BTW, in your post, does art imitate life or does life imitate art? James Dean and his art were imitating life. You then suggest that if view and accept homosexuality/adultery/whatever else is bothering you by viewing art, that life will then imitate art. Circular logic.

Censorship is a dangerous tool. You are suggesting that we censor according to one particular group's ideas of what is appropriate. It's totally opposite of what freedom stands for.

And believe it or not, alot of us understand real life and its complications quite well. I'd say one helluva lot better than you do, quite frankly.

 

[spoon full of sugar]

toto2 I am so glad you think we are on the same page in some ways, that really made my day. And you are SO right, I really think it could be looked at as being similiar to a greek tradgedy in that it is a story of tragically flawed individuals. You don't have to be gay to make monumentally bad choices. I've made a few myself but I don't make excuses for them.

Jenny all the statements I made (ok some of them were totally ot when I get started not even I know where i'll end up sometimes) were based on the other posts saying that the cowboys "had" to marry those women to save their very lives. And that that made it ok, it made it ok to enter into a marriage you aren't completely commited to, ok to commit adultery, ok to hurt your children, not because your gay, but because you cheated on their mother and lied to them about who you were. That was what I was responding to in relation to Brokeback. Go back and read my posts and the others if you don't belive it (if you can stand it )

As to the pimp issue, I stand by my guns (and dusty anthropology books) whatever is portrayed in a sympathetic light will eventualy gain acceptance, and then normalacy in a culture. Just like I posted before about the gay rights group, this is basic psychology, it really scares me that most of you don't understand this.

 

[daviedude]

I totally agree that crash is the best picture im glad that borkeback got its back broke LOL it is so demoralizing to me to see movies like that comeing out but hey its just my opinion

 

[eclectics]

it really scares me that most of you don't understand this.

I feel that I possess a semi-reasonable amount of intelligence and the only thing I have gotten out of any of your posts is a headache.

 

[spoon full of sugar]

Jenny *sigh* I was trying to explain a accepted psychological theory about how counterculture mores are inserted into our culture. You look like an intelligent woman, and I know the marines don't accept dummies (no matter what hollywood says) so you must be being delibrately obtuse. Fine.

Where you say I make alot of assumptions, I am not always speaking to you, I am responding to many posts. So not everything has to do with you. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Peter Pirate, I wasn't saying that a gay rights leader has anything to do with Brokeback.I find it hard to believe that you got that from my post? He wasn't refering to Brokeback, just gays in the spotlight in general. I was using that as an example for the fact that the more we see something the more we accept it. I was trying to explain that a movie like hustle and flow is making the explotation of women more acceptable in general. When I was a kid, the word pimp was a bad word. Now it's slang for someone whos got it going on. And you don't see that as a bad thing?

Either you people are REALLY dense or your all messing with me. I just can't believe people are this dumb.

 

[beckmrk04]

I feel that I possess a semi-reasonable amount of intelligence and the only thing I have gotten out of any of your posts is a headache.

Amen to that. Every post is full of gibberish and somehow manages to say nothing with a whole lot of words.... And then the poster so nicely asks another poster to kiss his rear- HOW INTELLIGENT! What an argument.

I'm sure if you have something to say, you could do it with a little more class, since you seem to have endless amounts of knowledge about everything.

 

[beckmrk04]

Either you people are REALLY dense or your all messing with me. I just can't believe people are this dumb.

That's right. EVERYONE else is dumb. This couldn't possibly have anything to do with you.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Jenny *sigh* I was trying to explain a accepted psychological theory about how counterculture mores are inserted into our culture. You look like an intelligent woman, and I know the marines don't accept dummies (no matter what hollywood says) so you must be being delibrately obtuse. Fine.

Where you say I make alot of assumptions, I am not always speaking to you, I am responding to many posts. So not everything has to do with you. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Peter Pirate, I wasn't saying that a gay rights leader has anything to do with Brokeback.I find it hard to believe that you got that from my post? He wasn't refering to Brokeback, just gays in the spotlight in general. I was using that as an example for the fact that the more we see something the more we accept it. I was trying to explain that a movie like hustle and flow is making the explotation of women more acceptable in general. When I was a kid, the word pimp was a bad word. Now it's slang for someone whos got it going on. And you don't see that as a bad thing?

Either you people are REALLY dense or your all messing with me. I just can't believe people are this dumb.

Your paragraph about James Dean you addressed specifically to me. It's new to me that pimp has now become a good word.

 

[SeattleRedBear]

Spoon -- All I need is a yes or no. Did you see Brokeback Mountain?

 

[janette]

were based on the other posts saying that the cowboys "had" to marry those women to save their very lives. And that that made it ok, it made it ok to enter into a marriage you aren't completely commited to, ok to commit adultery, ok to hurt your children, not because your gay, but because you cheated on their mother and lied to them about who you were.

No one said its okay, if anything the movie made it pretty obvious that it isn't. Brokeback doesn't have a happily ever after ending, I may not be as optimistic as some but I certainly didn't come away thinking that if only gay marriage was accepted things would have been different. One of the reasons I think I preferred Brokeback over Crash was that it just told a story. I found Crash to be more manipulative in their portrayal with an obvious agenda of racism.

 

[Dakota_Lynn]

I was very glad "Crash" won Best Picture over "Brokeback Mountain."

I don't condone the gay lifestyle at all and for "Brokeback" to win Best Picture would be further proof of the decline in morals and values in people. I know more and more people are accepting the gay lifestyle, but just because people are accepting it doesn't make it right.

I would get banned if I commented as I want to.

As it is, you may not like us, but we're HERE and we are not going anywhere. You understand? I go out in public with my lesbian partner. I do not and will not ever hide in shame. We hold hands and we go to Disneyland with our kid and you know what? You're just going to have to live with it. We ARE as visible as you are and we are going to stay that way no matter how much you disaprove. If you would just live YOUR life and mind your own damned business, then what gay and lesbian people do with their lives wouldn't upset you so much.

Your post just invigorated me. I have always fought hard for my rights and the rights of other gay and lesbian people. But my 14 year old daughter who is also a lesbian will have to face people like you. I, at this moment, am rededicating myself to fight the battle against the likes of you. You will not dictate to my child who she can marry and how she will live her life. She will live her life with the same freedom as heterosexuals if it takes every last breath in me to fight this battle and WIN it.

We're here to stay. I suggest you learn to live with it.

And to those of you who would like to say my post is too harsh; imagine coming to the DIS and being told that your life lacks morals and values and that it is not "right." Imagine being told that your life with your heterosexual partner is a "lifestyle" and an unacceptable one at that. It's all a bunch of bull and I am here to say her post is insulting and offensive. A racist wouldn't get on the DIS board and make negative comments about the group they hate; if they did they would be banned in the beat of a heart. So why then is it ok to come on here and say that many of the DIS posters are living immoral lives? I will not apologize for my post. I will not relax. I will not chill. And I will not take a pill. I am pissed off that she is allowed to make such comments regarding dozens of people in the DIS community but if I spoke my honest opinion about her, I would be banned.

And in order to stay on topic, I thought Brokeback Mountain was very good but not excellent. The first third was WAY too slow. I'll say this; you put two lesbians on a mountain in paradise and I guarantee you'll see a lot more action than those boys had going. Yikes. That aside, the story was excellent and it was told very well. My big problem was I just didn't feel convinced by the two main characters. Their chemistry wasn't very convincing to me. Having not seen Crash yet, I have no idea if it was a better movie. I Netflixed it so I'll watch it next week and then post again.

 

[bubie2.5]

I was shocked that Crash won--and was surprised when it was even nominated.

While I loved the film when I first saw it, I saw it as way too obvious to have serious artistic merit, and it's unabashedly didactic (teaching/ preaching) in a simplistic sort of way. So much so, that I showed it to my college students last semester during a unit on the myths of diversity. Ironically, I'm showing it again this semester and had to buy the dang thing because it was all checked out at the video stores after its big win

I think it's an enjoyable film to watch because it uses a lot of over the top techniques to pull at audiences hearts and tear ducts, and it's useful for simplifying racial issues because it spells them out, but from an artistic or literary standpoint, I just can't buy the brillance in having characters routinely say such bigoted remarks to other characters as if it's commonplace--it's so artificial--even a cliche of artificial. Does anyone NOT remember they are watching a movie when Sandra Bullock yells about homies in front of the locksmith she is complaining about--does anyone do this?? Movies don't have to be realistic to be good--there is plenty of evidence for this--but when the movie pretends to be real on the obvious use of smoke and mirrors--that's when you question it's integrity. And yes, I'm from LA and even work sometimes in the movie business doing short-term freelance stuff (like the kind of people who were supposed to be swayed by the fact that Crash was about LA themes)--and while I liked the film, the best picture nod made me question the integrity of the outcome.

ITA!!

BTW, I think I was the only one rooting for "Good Night, And Good Luck".