Crash beats Brokeback!!! Yay!

[spoon full of sugar]

No one has a logical arguement to these statements? I guess you could just go back to name calling and irrelevent personal attacks.

 

[dis ms.]

No one has a logical arguement to these statements? I guess you could just go back to name calling and irrelevent personal attacks.

Quite frankly, it's hard to come up with an argument for your statements because they are just all over the place. I consider myself reasonably intelligent, but I don't even know how to begin to respond to your stream of consciousness postings, other than to make smarta** jokes. You don't seem to appreciate those, though, so...

 

[JennyMominRI]

No one has a logical arguement to these statements? I guess you could just go back to name calling and irrelevent personal attacks.

Well,this stuff wasn't *hidden* in the 50'd because it was wrong..The nasty sexism was right out in the open with things like Ricky threatening to spank Lucy..It was part of the moral fabric of society.
BTW Stocholm syndrome is a very specific thing and it means that someone identifies with their kidnapper..Patty Hearst would be the most famous example... You still haven't said how people are *condoning* adultery by watching Brokeback mountain or condoning Pimps by watching hustle and flow..Most of us see them as what they are movies..
What ,exactly, it has to do with being able to let your kids go outside and walk around at night in the 50's,I have no clueAnd guess what most human being can be selfish,self centered and emotionally juvenile..It's part of the nature of being human
The last part of your statement,about gay people hiding it from themselves,I feel sad about it more than angry..
I don't know if I would call it *dishonest*,I'd call it more of a survival mechanism. I've watched a lot of people live their lives like that and it's pretty sad... There is a reason why gay teenagers are much more likely to kill themselves than heterosexual ones

 

[Chuck S]

Chuck S I'm guessing your not a big John Wayne fan . Cowboys have ALWAYS been portrayed in American mythology as loners. Every cowboy book you read has the bachelor for life character in it. This wasn't considered strange, hell no real man wants to be tied down to some woman and a passle of kids. So, it wasn't necessary for them to marry to hide their secret from the world so they weren't murdered , they married to hide it from themselves. To prove to themselves that they weren't "some damn queer". That is supremely selfish and dishonest. Why do you keep making excuses for it?

I think John Wayne cowboys were just as much a work of fiction as any other movie, don't you? I think you are confusing John Wayne's romantic and fictional represention of what was supposed to be cowboy life in the mid- 1800s to the fictional representation of what was supposed to be cowboy life based in the 1960s. In the 1960s there were few "open ranges" and wild west saloon towns. They were written about completely different eras in American history. Why do you keep trying to compare apples to oranges? Times change.

 

[spoon full of sugar]

OK

 

[va32h]

No one has a logical arguement to these statements?

Your statements defy logic.

Good people can sometimes do bad things. This does not make them intrinsically evil. It makes them flawed human beings, just like the rest of us.

Adultery does not make someone irreedemably evil and undeserving of sympathy ever, for any reason.

Selfishness (something which we have all been guilty of at some point in our lives) does not make us permanently and fatally flawed.

And if "being a *******" were a crime, 90% of the world's population would be in jail at one time or another, leaving only toddlers and babies to run the world.

Acknowledging that essentially good people can sometimes do very terrible things does not mean that we condone the behavior, approve of it, are desensitized to it, or have learned to accept it. It means we accept that our human nature is such that sometimes essentially good people can sometimes do very terrible things.

You have said some mean-spirited things in this thread. However, that does not necessarily mean you are a mean person. You're just flawed like the rest of us.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Your statements defy logic.

Good people can sometimes do bad things. This does not make them intrinsically evil. It makes them flawed human beings, just like the rest of us.

Adultery does not make someone irreedemably evil and undeserving of sympathy ever, for any reason.

Selfishness (something which we have all been guilty of at some point in our lives) does not make us permanently and fatally flawed.

And if "being a *******" were a crime, 90% of the world's population would be in jail at one time or another, leaving only toddlers and babies to run the world.

Acknowledging that essentially good people can sometimes do very terrible things does not mean that we condone the behavior, approve of it, are desensitized to it, or have learned to accept it. It means we accept that our human nature is such that sometimes essentially good people can sometimes do very terrible things.

You have said some mean-spirited things in this thread. However, that does not necessarily mean you are a mean person. You're just flawed like the rest of us.

Thanks for saying what I was trying to say

 

[hubby_of_newtodisney]

I got a really different story from Brokeback than the OP....I thought it was about the repression of society, and the extreme means that we go to to "fit in" in all areas of our life....even lying to ourselves. I thought it was a tragic story about finding (or, not finding) acceptance for differences...especially the differences in ourselves.



Beca

I don't disagree (gosh I love those double negatives), but if you are gonna live the lie, then live the lie. Once you have other people depending on you and trusting you, you only have two choices. The two characters were NOT WILLING TO PUT THERE OWN FEELINGS ASIDE. In my mind, they were selfish.

Most of the people on this board are females. Just for a second, put aside the point of view that the director gave you. My point is, imagine yourself as the wife of one of the leads.

 

[hubby_of_newtodisney]

I thought an Oscar is awarded for excellence in a film. Not the topic

Umm, I think that the topic must come into play. You think if Titanic had been a story about a rowboat sinking....

 

[hubby_of_newtodisney]

, I just said infidility is wrong in all situations, there is no justification for it. If you are not being fulfilled in your relationship, leave. Those men didn't have to be in a relationshipwith women. There are lots of single cowboys. Everybody didn't assume they were gay just cause they aren't married.

Der is my point! Infidelity is wrong, but hiding it over a long period of time, presenting yourself as one thing, and not considering the effect is the true sin. The ability to understand that our actions affect others is what makes us human. To act without thinking is a mistake. To repeatedly act without regard for the effect on others is a major problem.

 

[RobinMarie]

I completely disagree with you about homosexuality---I believe that it is natural and completely appropriate for homosexuals. No one chooses a homosexual orientation and it is simply another natural human condition. Period.

As for a decline in morals and values, I question how accurate that is. Every era has had its problems and controversies. Many people look back longingly on the 1950s as a period of morality, but was it moral when minorities were forced to sit in the back of the bus? Was it moral when people were denied opportunities for advancement simply because of the color of their skin? Was the forced sterilization of disabled people in the 1930s moral? Was it moral when intellectually challenged people were lobotomized? How about when homosexuals were sent to mental hospitals? Was that moral?

The arguement about declining moral values could more appropriately be regarded as a loss of power. White heterosexual Christians have lost some of their power in America because they must now share power with others who were wrongfully denied the opportunity to fully participate in our democratic society. And while most people believe in God or a higher power, the Constitution, with its promise of freedom for all, is still the highest law in our land.

There are plenty of things that I don't care for in today's America. However, I also see Americans opening their hearts and wallets to people recovering from natual disasters at home and abroad. Americans generously give their time and money to charity and to helping their neighbors. Millions of Americans toil in government, education, and the scientific community to improve life for their fellow human beings. Our society, while still havings its faults, is far from immoral or lacking in values.

I love the USA.

If you ran for office, I'd vote for you! Nicely written!

 

[spoon full of sugar]

I never said that these people were evil and underserving of any sympathy. I just said that adultery is wrong and there can be no excuse for it. That is not condemning that person in totality, just certain acts of theirs. But, having said that I have to say that your insistance that all people are flawed and we should just accept that is what scares me.

The way someone CHOOSES to act is a reflection of their character, behaviour is always a choice. I will not support the bad choices of others, any more than I make excuses for my own bad choices. It just insures that people will go out and do hurtful things to others and themselves again. Most of the people on this thread have been making excuses for the "bad choices" of these characters, that is enabling this type of behaviour.

By the way, people on this thread were saying "mean spirited" things before I ever posted. I was just reacting to their close minded intolerance of other peoples opinions. It's funny that when your opinoins are regected that person is a biggot and hatemonger, but when you regect someone elses, you are of course RIGHT.

 

[Mercy]

In CSI the murderers are the bad guys. In hustle and flow, the pimp is portrayed as a sympathitic character. In Brokeback the sympathitic characters are cheating on their wives, not a first for Hollywierd, but I didn't like Bridges of Madison county either, as one poster stated a movie where hetero sympathetic characters cheat. In fact, I don't like characters in any movie that are selfish, self centered emotionally juvenile *********. HATED Wuthering Hieghts and Cathcher in the Rye for those exact same reasons. I wasn't even a teen when I read those books, but I still wanted to smack the snot out of the characters and tell them to grow up. These characterazations being popularized in our culture are what is bringing it down. When you sympathize with the wrongdoer so much that you begin excusing their behaviour, than your accepting that behaviour. It's called Stockholm Syndrom and America has it bad.

Example everyone here saying what's so bad about a movie about prostitution and pimps. It's just a movie. If it was a movie showing the bad side of these issues I would agree, but it's a movie that jokes about it, jokes about the enslavement and brutalization of women. And you accept that cause it's just a movie and you've been desensitized to it. Many here said that women had it terrible in the 50's, in many was they did. But I can't remember any movie from that era that joked about it. They at least had the decency to hide it, BECAUSE THEY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING WAS WRONG. If we joke about this type of behaviour now, what monstrosities are we hiding from ourselves now? We no longer know right from wrong. Only what is popular thought.

Chuck S I'm guessing your not a big John Wayne fan . Cowboys have ALWAYS been portrayed in American mythology as loners. Every cowboy book you read has the bachelor for life character in it. This wasn't considered strange, hell no real man wants to be tied down to some woman and a passle of kids. So, it wasn't necessary for them to marry to hide their secret from the world so they weren't murdered , they married to hide it from themselves. To prove to themselves that they weren't "some damn queer". That is supremely selfish and dishonest. Why do you keep making excuses for it?

I know I'm chiming in here late, but I am also glad that Crash beat out Brokeback Mountain.

 

[spoon full of sugar]

Thanks hubby of newtodisney! I'm glad there is one person here who can cut through all my menral wandering (all who wander are not lost ) and understand the important bit.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I never said that these people were evil and underserving of any sympathy. I just said that adultery is wrong and there can be no excuse for it. That is not condemning that person in totality, just certain acts of theirs. But, having said that I have to say that your insistance that all people are flawed and we should just accept that is what scares me.

The way someone CHOOSES to act is a reflection of their character, behaviour is always a choice. I will not support the bad choices of others, any more than I make excuses for my own bad choices. It just insures that people will go out and do hurtful things to others and themselves again. Most of the people on this thread have been making excuses for the "bad choices" of these characters, that is enabling this type of behaviour.

By the way, people on this thread were saying "mean spirited" things before I ever posted. I was just reacting to their close minded intolerance of other peoples opinions. It's funny that when your opinoins are regected that person is a biggot and hatemonger, but when you regect someone elses, you are of course RIGHT.

I'm not sure where anyone said it's Ok to do these things..I don't see where anyone said it is not a reflection of ones character..Where we differ is you won't watch it on screen and see doing so as condoning the actions in front of you. I see it as watching a movie. For the record,I NEVER caqlled you a biggot or hate mongerer..
I think maybe my perspective is a bit different as, I'm not sitting her judging from my armchair..I in fact lived the life of a woman finding out the man she married likes men.. And as much as I often hate and despise that man ,I manage to feel pity for him It took me many years to come to that point but I have..

 

[gina2000]

Quite frankly, the Oscars aren't about the morality or ethics of a film. The award is all about the quality of the film, the realistic character portrayal and the honesty of the story line. You may not like the story and it may offend your sense of right but that doesn't mean the film should be pushed aside for another film which agrees with your sensibilities.

 

[eclectics]

Quite frankly, the Oscars aren't about the morality or ethics of a film. The award is all about the quality of the film, the realistic character portrayal and the honesty of the story line. You may not like the story and it may offend your sense of right but that doesn't mean the film should be pushed aside for another film which agrees with your sensibilities.

Exactly! Well said. The Oscars were never meant to be a popularity contest. The award goes to the film that excelled in it's particular catagory, regardless of box office sales, political swaying, or morality. That's the way it's supposed to be anyway, and usually is.

 

[mtemm]

So Michael, let me get this straight, you are saying that movies like Chicago, The English Patient, and Out of Africa should never have won best picture Oscars?

 

[toto2]

Boy ! I leave for a few hours , and tons of things get said !

Spoon , I understand a lot of things you are saying and feel we could be on the same plan on many things.

For me , Brokeback montain is exactly what you talking about ! it is a tragedi in the "greek tragedy " sense. Evrything come to this terrible conclusion . It is not because we are seing this film that we condonne what the caracteres are doing, far from it ! I spend the whole movie wanting to sceam at the screen: go with the guy , be happy , you dont have to be conflicted like that , you will be allright !

We can have moral standards all we want , people are flawed , and this is what makes movies an amazing experience. We can have one note in a caractere , but it the caractere that are symphonies that are , interesting and chalenging and help us understanding our own life ( wow , I am writting all that ?) I feel like you can come out of Brokeback mountain with ton of things to disect and understand and make you a better person , more than , lets say , Freaky Friday , or Pirates of the Carrabeens ( wich i loved , by the way , but it wont change anyones lifes )

 

[hubby_of_newtodisney]

So Michael, let me get this straight, you are saying that movies like Chicago, The English Patient, and Out of Africa should never have won best picture Oscars?

Ummm, wisdom says I don't debate my D S-I-L!!! Seacrest out!