Crash beats Brokeback!!! Yay!

Maleficent13 said:
FYI, Jewish is a religion AND a race.
Jewish is not a race..There are black Jews,White Jews Asians Jews..Non Jews can chose to become Jews like I have... If A Non-Jewish mother and a Jewish Father have a child,that child is not,in accordance with Jewish law,Jewish ..After conversion one does not check a new *race* box on the census..Jewish is more of a Nationhood..One can be born a Jew,or one can choose to make it there home.
 
Maleficent13 said:
My mistake...I am not Jewish but I thought I remembered from college that it was...plus I was sure I remembered that it was recognized as a race by the Supreme Court...but my poor google skills make me unable to back that up.

Anyway, continue on...

Your right about the supreme ct... But that was not a decision supported by Most Jew

From Judaism 101

Are Jews a Race?
In the 1980s, the United States Supreme Court ruled that Jews are a race, at least for purposes of certain anti-discrimination laws. Their reasoning: at the time these laws were passed, people routinely spoke of the "Jewish race" or the "Italian race" as well as the "Negro race," so that is what the legislators intended to protect.

But many Jews were deeply offended by that decision, offended by any hint that Jews could be considered a race. The idea of Jews as a race brings to mind nightmarish visions of Nazi Germany, where Jews were declared to be not just a race, but an inferior race that had to be rounded up into ghettos and exterminated like vermin.

But setting aside the emotional issues, Jews are clearly not a race.

Race is a genetic distinction, and refers to people with shared ancestry and shared genetic traits. You can't change your race; it's in your DNA. I could never become black or Asian no matter how much I might want to.

Common ancestry is not required to be a Jew. Many Jews worldwide share common ancestry, as shown by genetic research; however, you can be a Jew without sharing this common ancestry, for example, by converting. Thus, although I could never become black or Asian, blacks and Asians have become Jews (Sammy Davis Jr. and Connie Chung).

Is It a Culture or Ethnic Group?
Most secular American Jews think of their Jewishness as a matter of culture or ethnicity. When they think of Jewish culture, they think of the food, of the Yiddish language, of some limited holiday observances, and of cultural values like the emphasis on education.

Those secular American Jews would probably be surprised to learn that much of what they think of as Jewish culture is really just Ashkenazic Jewish culture, the culture of Jews whose ancestors come from one part of the world. Jews have lived in many parts of the world and have developed many different traditions. As a Sephardic friend likes to remind me, Yiddish is not part of his culture, nor are bagels and lox, chopped liver, latkes, gefilte fish or matzah ball soup. His idea of Jewish cooking includes bourekas, phyllo dough pastries filled with cheese or spinach. His ancestors probably wouldn't know what to do with a dreidel.

There are certainly cultural traits and behaviors that are shared by many Jews, that make us feel more comfortable with other Jews. Jews in many parts of the world share many of those cultural aspects. However, that culture is not shared by all Jews all over the world, and people who do not share that culture are no less Jews because of it. Thus, Judaism must be something more than a culture or an ethnic group.

Are the Jews a Nation?
The traditional explanation, and the one given in the Torah, is that the Jews are a nation. The Hebrew word, believe it or not, is "goy." The Torah and the rabbis used this term not in the modern sense meaning a territorial and political entity, but in the ancient sense meaning a group of people with a common history, a common destiny, and a sense that we are all connected to each other.

Unfortunately, in modern times, the term "nation" has become too contaminated by ugly, jingoistic notions of a country obsessed with its own superiority and bent on world domination. Because of this notion of "nationhood," Jews are often falsely accused of being disloyal to their own country in favor of their loyalty to the Jewish "nation," of being more loyal to Israel than to their home country. Some have gone so far as to use this distorted interpretation of "nationhood" to prove that Jews do, or seek to, control the world. In fact, a surprising number of antisemitic websites and newsgroup postings linked to this page (in an earlier form) as proof of their antisemitic delusions that Jews are nationalistic, that Israel is a colonial power and so forth.

Because of the inaccurate connotations that have attached themselves to the term "nation," the term can no longer be used to accurately describe the Jewish people
 
LukenDC said:
It may be because Jews tend to marry people from within their own religious and social groups. For centuries, they could not do otherwise due to civil and religious laws that prevented inter-faith marriages. Marrying within one's own race or ethnic/social/ religious group limits the diversity with the gene pool.

This is exactly right..In fact Tay-Sachs is confined to a certain type of Jew..Ashkenazi..Jews who came from Eastern Europe who lives in very small communities an married withing their community..There are other similar groups with a Tay Sachs issue..I'm not sure which country.something like Norway,and it also occurs within specific french canadian groups
 
JennyMominRI said:
This is exactly right..In fact Tay-Sachs is confined to a certain type of Jew..Ashkenazi..Jews who came from Eastern Europe who lives in very small communities an married withing their community..There are other similar groups with a Tay Sachs issue..I'm not sure which country.something like Norway,and it also occurs within specific french canadian groups


Thanks for posting that, I had found that info as well on three posts above. The most recent census (2000) only gave 6 choices:
* White
* Black, African American Or Negro
* American Indian or Alaska Native
* Asian, including Asian Indian, Chinese, Filipino, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, and other Asian
* Native Hawaiian, Guamanian or Chamorro, Samoan and other Pacific Islander
* Some other race


You just have to love "some Other race"
 

Tigger&Belle said:
:teeth: Glad you liked that one and thanks for the kitty comment--and I like your signature pics! I almost added that I might be able to handle a steak eating pool boy from another thread, though. ;)

Hehe, thankies, that's just me. :thumbsup2

How long have you been Vegitarian, are you Vegan, or other variant? I'm a diehard Omnivour. *grins*


Oh and as to why they won't answer your questions is because the answers they give are based solely on FEELINGS not on any facts or figures. Here's someone who says that while people may be MADE Gay, they shouldn't ACT on their feelings(because they were made immorally). They should effectively live alone and be miserable, rather than live as they were made.
 
UrsulasMyHero said:
Hehe, thankies, that's just me. :thumbsup2

How long have you been Vegitarian, are you Vegan, or other variant? I'm a diehard Omnivour. *grins*


Oh and as to why they won't answer your questions is because the answers they give are based solely on FEELINGS not on any facts or figures. Here's someone who says that while people may be MADE Gay, they shouldn't ACT on their feelings(because they were made immorally). They should effectively live alone and be miserable, rather than live as they were made.

I've been lacto-ovo for 25 years, basically all of my adult life. All of our kids are and my mom really had more problems with my DH being vegie rather than Jewish. Maybe she should have said that she'd disown me if I married a vegie, but I'm sure in a million years she never imagined that possibility! :rotfl:

Even the most religious people don't always have such a hard and fast stand against gays, though. My sister is a strict, observent LDS and she really likes my gay BIL and he likes her a lot. You never would have "thunk" it! But the few times that they have been together they have had a blast together, mainly because they are so much alike. Again, who someone sleeps with does not define them as a person.
 
Random story: In one branch of my family the daughter went off to college and came back with two changes (1) she no longer hid the fact that she was gay, and (2) she was a vegetarian.

Well, I guess subconsciously her parents didn't want to deal with the whole gay issue, so they transferred all their emotions onto her being a vegetarian. The blamed the college for turning her into a vegetarian. They knew she couldn't be a real vegetarian since she ate meat in high school. They were worried about possible grandkids since its better for kids to be raised with meat in the house. Etc.

When the rest of us tell these stories, we put in lots of finger quotes and try hard not to laugh at all the possible meaning of "meat". But her parents were in some sort of denial and never seemed to realize what they were doing.

Things have calmed down, and the parents have accepted that they daughter really is a "vegetarian". But forever in our family "vegetarian" is not only a dietary choice, it's a sexual preference.
 
LOL, maybe that's what my mom was doing!!! :rotfl2: Love it!

My sisters love the story when my mom was visiting one of them when I had just had my first born child (and was not visiting) and they were all sitting around the dinner table and my mother, in all seriousness, asked if they thought that we would raise our children as vegetarians. My sister answered in disbelief, "Why would they go out and buy the baby meat when they don't eat meat?". :rotfl: I wish that I could hav ebeen a fly on the wall... :teeth:
 
UrsulasMyHero said:
* Black, African American Or Negro

Why do they list black AND African American? Huh? Aren't they the same thing :confused3

I have to admit I was also jealous of the kids who were "[Country/Continent Name]-American." I never really knew what that meant -- parents were from the country or the child was from the country?
 
Free4Life11 said:
Why do they list black AND African American? Huh? Aren't they the same thing :confused3

I have to admit I was also jealous of the kids who were "[Country/Continent Name]-American." I never really knew what that meant -- parents were from the country or the child was from the country?


my best guess? To be as politically correct as possible
 
JennyMominRI said:
Those secular American Jews would probably be surprised to learn that much of what they think of as Jewish culture is really just Ashkenazic Jewish culture, the culture of Jews whose ancestors come from one part of the world. Jews have lived in many parts of the world and have developed many different traditions. As a Sephardic friend likes to remind me, Yiddish is not part of his culture, nor are bagels and lox, chopped liver, latkes, gefilte fish or matzah ball soup. His idea of Jewish cooking includes bourekas, phyllo dough pastries filled with cheese or spinach. His ancestors probably wouldn't know what to do with a dreidel.

This is totally off topic but I'm going to print out what you wrote and mail it to DH's uncle. He questioned if I was really Jewish because I didn't know what a blintz was! I know Jews from Lebanon, Italy, Morocco, and Egypt and they don't know about blintzes either. I'm learning quickly but I still don't get the appeal of the matza ball :confused3
 
Notice that both of the vociferous holier-than-thous ignored my question about choosing to be homosexual if their religion required it....as usual.

Maybe someday someone will have the guts to give an honest answer.....NOT!!
 
They both ran away because they couldn't give you an answer hon. they were afraid of being called to the carpet, so to speak. Their argument doesn't hold water, and they're seeing the holes, I think.
 
Free4Life11 said:
Why do they list black AND African American? Huh? Aren't they the same thing :confused3

I have to admit I was also jealous of the kids who were "[Country/Continent Name]-American." I never really knew what that meant -- parents were from the country or the child was from the country?
I would assume someone who is Black can be from any country,but only someone from the Us is an African American..I doubt Black people in the UK call them African American.
 
princess pooh said:
This is totally off topic but I'm going to print out what you wrote and mail it to DH's uncle. He questioned if I was really Jewish because I didn't know what a blintz was! I know Jews from Lebanon, Italy, Morocco, and Egypt and they don't know about blintzes either. I'm learning quickly but I still don't get the appeal of the matza ball :confused3
I used to make them myself..Then I got some that came from a Manishewitz mix and they were awesome..
 
UrsulasMyHero said:
They both ran away because they couldn't give you an answer hon. they were afraid of being called to the carpet, so to speak. Their argument doesn't hold water, and they're seeing the holes, I think.

I am simply tired of defending my position, that's all.

I will not change any of your minds, and none of you will change mine, so I don't see the point in continuing.

As for my opinion being based on my "feelings" as another poster put it, nope, it's based on God and the Bible.
 
Chattyaholic said:
I am simply tired of defending my position, that's all.

I will not change any of your minds, and none of you will change mine, so I don't see the point in continuing.

As for my opinion being based on my "feelings" as another poster put it, nope, it's based on God and the Bible.

Defending your position? It was a question. If God spoke to you right now and said to get into heaven you would have to become a lesbian, could you do it? Would it make you happy?
 
LoraJ said:
Defending your position? It was a question. If God spoke to you right now and said to get into heaven you would have to become a lesbian, could you do it? Would it make you happy?
Thank you Lora. I'll have to remember to this.

The only problem with asking the question is that you're expecting a dogmatic to answer a hypothetical question....something that is not possible for many of them to do.
 
Chattyaholic said:
I am simply tired of defending my position, that's all.

I will not change any of your minds, and none of you will change mine, so I don't see the point in continuing.

As for my opinion being based on my "feelings" as another poster put it, nope, it's based on God and the Bible.


After reading the majority of this thread....well said on your part.
 












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