Crash beats Brokeback!!! Yay!

[spoon full of sugar]

Jenny are you serious? It's hard out there for a pimp?!?!! What? It's hard out there for a man that enslaves and brutalizes women? What planet are you people from?

 

[JennyMominRI]

Jenny are you serious? It's hard out there for a pimp?!?!! What? It's hard out there for a man that enslaves and brutalizes women? What planet are you people from?

NO,LOL...It's the name of the song that won the Oscar on Sunday..My answer was Tongue in Cheek..I really have no clue that you get the idea any of us condone the idea of pimps in the first place.

 

[pearlieq]

I'd love to expand on this, but I'm late for an afternoon of trick-turning. Can't disappoint my pimp. It's hard enough out here for him as it is.

 

[spoon full of sugar]

OK Dis Ms. I'll let you slide on that one . By the way, your kids are adorable, hope you don't take that the wrong way from someone you think is .

 

[JennyMominRI]

Ahem...

I was just wondering how she knew who was a minority and who was *white* COnsidering most Jews are white..
You would think someone who was *part* Jewish would know that.
BTW,If your mother was a Jew your a Jew..If you have converted to Judaism in accordance with Jewish law,you are a Jew

 

[dis ms.]

OK Dis Ms. I'll let you slide on that one . By the way, your kids are adorable, hope you don't take that the wrong way from someone you think is .

That's the most sane thing you've said yet!

Thanks, BTW!

 

[spoon full of sugar]

Gee, now that you mention it, my jewish grandfather did look kind of white after his yearly bath . I was refering to my grammy the red indian. If you think it's ok to poke fun at prostitution, why isn't it ok to poke fun at abusing and murdering gays, or jews or american indians or blacks? It's ok to abuse women just not anyone else, yea,we've come real far since the fifties.

 

[tiff211]

So, how about 'dem Yankees?!

 

[toto2]

So many interesting things on that thread !

First , I did not see "Crash " , so I cannot talk about it, but I think ( and the guy in the paper thinks the same as me ) that brokeback wasnot "hollywood "enough: no happy ending , no "oscar moment" like in Shindlers list when the hero complain about not saving enough people. Brokeback is a big sad , no hope movie. The only hope there is , is from realising in our own life thet we do all we can not miss our life ! ( and it can be comforting)


Movie are mostly entertainment , but they can be something else : Philadelphia , Look who's comming for dinner, the Passion of the Christ ( not my cup of tea , but still). Fils can be a comment on society , a wish for the future , or an opening on another culture. "Life is beautifull" is a fantastic comedy , but much more than that.

For those claiming that Brokeback is a sign of the decline of morals in America should maybe see the film to understand the anguish some people go through with there homosexuality , and to learn that , if they are true in the sentiment of "love the sinner , hate the sin " , gay people who stuggle deserve at least some compassion. And that only two lifes would have been destroyed intead of two families , if the two guys from the movie could have lived there life ( I dont think there lives would have been destroyed if they would have lived there gay life)

Now , as far as the gay agenda , I have been gay like , forever , and I was never given the gay agenda by anyone. Not by e-mail , not as a gift , not in anyway...because it does not exist ! The crimes commoited by gay people are jsut as bad , and here in Canada , just as present in the media , when they happen. They happend a lot less often because there are alot less of us in the world. There are lot molested childreen , beaten women , killed people in America , and no one gets the price for the most represented in the media for there shamefull act. Maybe there was a crime commited at the same time as the Mattew Sheppard lynching that we did not hear about here in Canada ( I am sur e you dont here about most our crimes in the USA), but the Sheppard crime ignites the imagination for the hate it countains and were it happened. The other crime is just as terrible ( and the thousands of other rapes commited by heterosexual men that dont go reported in the media) , it just doesn't have the same impact.

 

[Miss Jasmine]

And I think it's a real joke that YOU middle class white people are telling me about discrimination .

How do you know what everyone's ethnicity, class or religion is around here?

 

[spoon full of sugar]

toto2 Like I said, I wouldn't have a problem with a movie about two gay cowboys. Why should I care? The only problem I had was they didn't need to ruin the lives of the women they were involved with. Period. No excuses. What's wrong is wrong. Infidility is wrong, bringing children into the world for a lie is wrong. That opinoin.

I didn't mean that all gay people have an agenda, (like the right wing conspiracy ) I'm saying the media chooses which stories to cover based on what that station is trying to promote. If you don't believe me just ask any liberial about Fox news .

As for Mathew Sheppard, that was a horrible sick thing, but I don't think it equals the rape and murder of a child. Anything bad that happens to any child is always more henious than something that happens to any adult. As to the rapes of women everyday by hetero men, yes, it is terrible. It is actually every bit as much of a HATE CRIME as when it happens to a gay man. And should be punished accordingly. But it is not, in our society women have less legal equality than black men, or gay men for that matter. If you don't believe that, look it up, women don't have equal rights under the constitution.

 

[JennyMominRI]

toto2 Like I said, I wouldn't have a problem with a movie about two gay cowboys. Why should I care? The only problem I had was they didn't need to ruin the lives of the women they were involved with. Period. No excuses. What's wrong is wrong. Infidility is wrong, bringing children into the world for a lie is wrong. That opinoin.



:

I'm guessing you haven't been to my web-page..I'm probably the last person you should preach to about gay men ruining the lives of their wives..My bisexual cheating husband gave me AIDS in case you dont know..So you might want to spare me your preaching..This is a movie,a movie about conflicted human beings.I haven't seen it,nor have I seen hustle and flow ,crash or the other 2 moves that were up for oscars. I can't judge all gay an bisexual men by my ex..In fact,maybe had he not been so far in the closet he wouldn't have married me.I don't think pushing homosexuality back to the dark ages helps things

 

[HOGFAN]

Count me in as another who was glad Crash won.

 

[Chuck S]

The only problem I had was they didn't need to ruin the lives of the women they were involved with.

But did they, really? Did you see the movie?

Ennis' wife remarried, he was still a father to his daughters, she seemed pretty happy with her new hubby, and he obviously made more $$ being a store manager than Ennis did being a cowboy.

Jack's wife was a pretty darned spoiled rich Daddy's Girl, and one that was pretty much a "honky tonk honey" at that. This woman's life would have had the same result if Jack, or any other man, had divorced her, if he had been killed in a "manly" bar room brawl or simply been killed in a tractor accident. She didn't seem terribly torn up over the "tire incident." Certainly not as pure as the driven snow.

If the roles had been reversed, and a woman had "ruined the life" of her husband, would that have been better? Marriages end all the time, some for infidelity, some just because the "magic" isn't there any more.

It was a movie, and to a certain extent, based on fact according to the author, though she would not elaborate further on the "fact." And since you're decrying the fact that it "ruined" women's lives, don't forget that the short story WAS written by a woman.

 

[buddy&wooz]

Now , as far as the gay agenda , I have been gay like , forever , and I was never given the gay agenda by anyone. Not by e-mail , not as a gift , not in anyway...because it does not exist !

I hope you at least got the toaster when you signed up .

 

[spoon full of sugar]

Jenny first of all I'm sorry for your pain and struggle. But, if you had read the post I wasn't addressing you, I was responding to toto2's post. Anyway I hope I don't shock you to much when I say, I actually agree with you on this. People shouldn't get involved in relationships where they feel they have to go outside that relationship for any reason. My only point is, like I said in my original post, those men didn't have to get married, they choose that, and that was a bad, dishonest choice. It hurt them, their wives and their children. I don't judge every gay person, I don't know every gay person on earth, how can I judge them? I can make a judgement about the behavoiur of these fictional characters that have had their fictional life story spread across the screen though.

Making that statement doesn't push homosexuality back to the dark ages. How does it? Saying gay men shouldn't lie about their sexual orientation and marry women is pushing acceptance of gays back to the dark ages? How? I didn't make any statement about the validity of homosexuality, I just said infidility is wrong in all situations, there is no justification for it. If you are not being fulfilled in your relationship, leave. Those men didn't have to be in a relationshipwith women. There are lots of single cowboys. Everybody didn't assume they were gay just cause they aren't married.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Jenny first of all I'm sorry for your pain and struggle. But, if you had read the post I wasn't addressing you, I was responding to toto2's post. Anyway I hope I don't shock you to much when I say, I actually agree with you on this. People shouldn't get involved in relationships where they feel they have to go outside that relationship for any reason. My only point is, like I said in my original post, those men didn't have to get married, they choose that, and that was a bad, dishonest choice. It hurt them, their wives and their children. I don't judge every gay person, I don't know every gay person on earth, how can I judge them? I can make a judgement about the behavoiur of these fictional characters that have had their fictional life story spread across the screen though.

Making that statement doesn't push homosexuality back to the dark ages. How does it? Saying gay men shouldn't lie about their sexual orientation and marry women is pushing acceptance of gays back to the dark ages? How? I didn't make any statement about the validity of homosexuality, I just said infidility is wrong in all situations, there is no justification for it. If you are not being fulfilled in your relationship, leave. Those men didn't have to be in a relationshipwith women. There are lots of single cowboys. Everybody didn't assume they were gay just cause they aren't married.

tehn why the big long post about evil society for going to see these movies..How does liking Brokeback Mountain or Hustle and flow show that one supports adultery,or pimping or any of the varried other things you mentioned in your very long post.. I'm really having a tought time getiing the point your making. What exactly does any of it have to do with these movies.

If I watch CSI,which is about murderers,does that make me a supporter of murder? Does it make CSI unworthy of praise and awards?

 

[Chuck S]

You keep saying they didn't have to be in a relationship with women. It was the 1960s in rural America. Perception was everything. People were killed just for being "different", whether it was race, sexuality, religious beliefs...whatever. If hiding the "real you" wasn't important for any number of reasons during that time, why did the studios arrange very public relationships between stars whenever one may have been perceived to be gay?

 

[va32h]

Those men didn't have to be in a relationshipwith women.

Those men are not real. Let's not forget that. We are talking about a work of fiction. Are their men who have been in the same sort of situation? Probably.

But the original post in this thread was to cheer because a movie didn't win a certain award. Which is supposed to be some sort of "victory" for people who don't like the movie...to which I can only say - whatever, because "Brokeback Mountain" NOT winning an Oscar isn't going to change anything, and is hardly a harbinger of a return to 1950's values.

When Dan Quayle tried to take a stand against single motherhood using the fictional character of Murphy Brown, it was silly. And this debate is silly too. Arguing over what two fictional men should or should not have done is pointless.

 

[spoon full of sugar]

In CSI the murderers are the bad guys. In hustle and flow, the pimp is portrayed as a sympathitic character. In Brokeback the sympathitic characters are cheating on their wives, not a first for Hollywierd, but I didn't like Bridges of Madison county either, as one poster stated a movie where hetero sympathetic characters cheat. In fact, I don't like characters in any movie that are selfish, self centered emotionally juvenile *********. HATED Wuthering Hieghts and Cathcher in the Rye for those exact same reasons. I wasn't even a teen when I read those books, but I still wanted to smack the snot out of the characters and tell them to grow up. These characterazations being popularized in our culture are what is bringing it down. When you sympathize with the wrongdoer so much that you begin excusing their behaviour, than your accepting that behaviour. It's called Stockholm Syndrom and America has it bad.

Example everyone here saying what's so bad about a movie about prostitution and pimps. It's just a movie. If it was a movie showing the bad side of these issues I would agree, but it's a movie that jokes about it, jokes about the enslavement and brutalization of women. And you accept that cause it's just a movie and you've been desensitized to it. Many here said that women had it terrible in the 50's, in many was they did. But I can't remember any movie from that era that joked about it. They at least had the decency to hide it, BECAUSE THEY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING WAS WRONG. If we joke about this type of behaviour now, what monstrosities are we hiding from ourselves now? We no longer know right from wrong. Only what is popular thought.

Chuck S I'm guessing your not a big John Wayne fan . Cowboys have ALWAYS been portrayed in American mythology as loners. Every cowboy book you read has the bachelor for life character in it. This wasn't considered strange, hell no real man wants to be tied down to some woman and a passle of kids. So, it wasn't necessary for them to marry to hide their secret from the world so they weren't murdered , they married to hide it from themselves. To prove to themselves that they weren't "some damn queer". That is supremely selfish and dishonest. Why do you keep making excuses for it?