Every Wish That We Put Into Motion.... (comments welcome!)

Honestly, in the absence of someone just as good closer, I would make the extra effort to get to the "really good one." You might be able to minimize your visits - I know that my PT's office offers telehealth visits - but particularly for diagnosis and setting up an initial treatment plan, you want to the best that you can find.

Also, you mentioned your insurance - my insurance doesn't actually cover physical therapy unless the result of me actually being hospitalized. What I found was that my PT was incredibly accommodating for me to pay out of pocket (they see it all of the time) and the visits weren't prohibitively expensive. Considering what I was going to spend on runDisney weekend, the few hundred dollars that I spent at my PT is well worth it.



The reality is that now is the BEST time to deal with it - and if that means taking a break, so be it. What you don't want to have happen is to keep running now and have to take even more time off during the middle of the actual Dopey training. If you have to spend some time on the bike now (and spoiler alert you probably are) to stay on the road later, that seems like the best scenario.

I know that my PT tells a story about he's actually trained people to run FAST marathons using what he calls a "s**t ton of biking." These were people that just couldn't stay healthy doing the volume of running that they needed to do to reach their goals and it worked. It's not what you want to aim for, but it is possible. That's why finding a PT that deals with runners is so important because they know how to balance injury recovery with training for X race. Plus having someone that understands the runner mentality is crucial.



Oh, I don't want to give the impression that what I went through was easy. I was out of running for 4-6 weeks in November and December (if I recall correctly) during my Princess training plan (so late February race) and could only walk, bike, or elliptical. I also put in a LOT of strength work and very diligent stretching to correct the problem. Fixing physical problems never seems to be quick or easy, but postponing dealing with it doesn't help either. My PT uses the rule that for every week/month that you've been dealing with the problem, that's approximately how long it's going to take to fix it. His point is, of course, if you catch the problem quick and deal with it right away, you will get back on the road faster. But most runners don't which is why he has a thriving practice and side business.
I know about the one PT because the XC/Track coaches mentioned him (we have an elite runner at our hs who is basically going to have his choice of D1 colleges after he graduates next year that was seeing him over the summer) and the phrase "one of, if not the best running PT in the state" back in the fall. I'm assuming there would be a lengthy waitlist to get in there, and spending 2 hours in the car for a 30min appointment on top of everything else AND 4 kids going into summer break is just not something that is in any way feasible. I know my insurance covers PT if the doctor writes a prescription for it; I did pelvic floor PT last summer and it just has to be submitted and approved.

I've been taking a break (sneaking up on 2 months now), but I'm ready to be done taking a break. And my ankle disagrees.
 
My husband took his on a more day by day basis. He calculated his TDEE at sedentary and subtracted from that to get his base. He then ate back any calories he burned from exercise. So from day to day his calories were pretty variable whereas I had a steady number that averaged out over the week.

This is the method I use. The TDEE calculated for me is 2200 when I say inactivity (no exercise). Then I subtract 500 as my maximal limit on a deficit to get 1700. So on non-exercise days I aim for 1700. If I do a workout that is estimated to burn 800 calories then I consume 1700+800 = 2500. So my goal number varies day to day based on the level of activity I had. That’s what helped me drop most of my 100 pounds when I went from max to min. These days I hang around the 80 total lost from max. That was 10 years ago now.
 
Oh, I get that going to the person an hour away might not be feasible. But if there is a way to make it happen...

I also wouldn't assume that you couldn't get an appointment. My PT is also probably considered one of "the best" in our area for runners and I was able to get my initial appointment in days. He is part of a high volume clinic (which has it's good points and not so good points) so that keeps the wait times low.

I don't know if you saw this information on the Running thread, but my PT made his injury recovery protocol available through 5/10 (I think) and it outlines quite well the usual way runners deal with injuries (taking a break, running less, spacing runs out) and why they don't work - and what actually does. If you want to take a look at it, I copied the links below. Usually this is part of his paid program so having it available for free is very rare.

The video introduction is here:

https://fb.watch/cDRZBzDTLs/

And the link to get the information emailed to you is here:

https://runsmartapp.com/protocol-5

It might be helpful.
 


Oh, I need this plan haha. I like cycling so much more than running.

No, you probably wouldn't want to do it. Because:

a) It sounds like it requires A LOT of time on the bike. When he says "a ___ ton of biking," I don't think he's exaggerating. The rule of thumb that I got was that you need 30% more time on a bike to get the same workout as running. So a 45 minute run is almost an hour. Do the math and you start to realize what a commitment it is.
b) It is super tricky to build up enough strength in your legs to do the distance without actually doing all of the running/time on your feet. You would probably need a coach that's done it before to make sure that the plan is constructed properly. The fallout if you don't do enough could be catastrophic - either you wind up not getting the results that you want or worse injured.
c) I imagine that there is a lot, lot, LOT of strength work involved. I can't even imagine the lunges, squats, step-ups, etc.

But that might just be me. I will admit that I'm prejudiced because I have a strong dislike for the bike because I've spent a lot of time tied to it over the past two training cycles. Give me a long training run any day of the week.
 
I agree with @DopeyBadger above with the recommendation to limit your deficit to 500 cal/day. That is also the target I had for my weight loss and it was slow going (took a year to lose those 50lbs) but I wasn't hungry or tired and have been able to maintain that loss easily. If your TDEE is at 2200-2300 and that is close to the estimate you are getting from your garmin, you probably estimated your exercise pretty well. So take 500 cals from that to get your new range. This method does require you to be aware of and honest about your activity levels. If your exercise drops and you don't adjust your range you could easily be eating at your maintenance calories.
My husband took his on a more day by day basis. He calculated his TDEE at sedentary and subtracted from that to get his base. He then ate back any calories he burned from exercise. So from day to day his calories were pretty variable whereas I had a steady number that averaged out over the week.

And it didn't hinder your ability to exercise?

I've tried reducing my caloric intake in the fall, and I was always ravenous. I didn't feel I had enough energy during my runs. 500 cals less a day seems like a lot, but if both you and Billy did it, it must work.
 
And it didn't hinder your ability to exercise?

I've tried reducing my caloric intake in the fall, and I was always ravenous. I didn't feel I had enough energy during my runs. 500 cals less a day seems like a lot, but if both you and Billy did it, it must work.
I think the key is starting with accurate numbers. When people try to lose weight, a lot of us fall victim to the idea that if a little of something is good, more is better. So I think people cut more than they really intended to or don’t accurately eat back calories.
Also, different bodies respond better to different styles of eating. I don’t get too in the weeds on macros but I noticed anecdotally that my body likes protein. I feel full longer when I am eating more protein Vs a higher carb diet. I actually have to put real effort to add carbs in as my mileage increases because I know I need those carbs but they just don’t satisfy in the same way. Don’t get me wrong, I love carbs but calorie for calorie, they just don’t work for me as well as protein. The carbs I eat regularly are complex, like oats, quinoa, some rice. I save stuff like pasta for saturday (when I don’t prep/plan) because I know I will want a huge bowl and then be hungry a couple of hours later.
I also need bulk. A small calorie dense meal doesn’t work for me. Even if I’m not hungry after, I just don’t feel satisfied. My meals have a lot of veggies and fruits. I know people who struggle to eat volumes of food when they are exercising a lot and they rely on more calorie dense foods to fill the gap, like peanut butter, extra olive oil for cooking/dressings, cheese, etc. I go the other way. I cut down cooking oil a little so I can add in like an entire additional bell pepper or drop a couple ounces of cheese in a recipe so I can make it 4 huge servings instead of 5 Smaller ones.
Last, I need snacks and dessert. I plan for a 2-300 calories afternoon snack and a little dessert every night. I love ice cream, so I use popsicles like Yasso and enlightened for my dessert. 100ish calories and tons of flavor options. And a decent amount of protein.
You mentioned feeling low energy during runs. I would consider when you are taking in your calories and how your body responds to that. YMMV but this is my strategy. I eat something small before basically every run, even short ones. Anything less than 6 miles, I have these bars that have a little caffeine (I run in the morning and it keeps the headaches at bay until I can get coffee) and are just 90 cals of energy. Then I eat breakfast within an hour of my run. If I run in the afternoon I time my snack to be before my run then it’s usually just about dinner time when I am finished.
Last but not least, I would avoid trying to lose weight during a training cycle if you can. It’s one thing to be at a slight deficit for a long period of time when losing large amounts of weight like dopeybadger and I did. It’s another thing to make a short-term diet adjustment to drop 10-20 lbs. Long-term goals require long-term adjustments and your body has plenty of fuel to burn to make up for the deficit. The less weight you have to lose, the less extra fuel you are carrying around and the calorie deficit is harder on your body. You will feel the hunger more. Adding that into a training plan where your mileage is likely increasing regularly and you have hard workouts adds to the body stress. For a smaller weight loss I would target a time where you are in maintenance running and your mileage is pretty steady. Less of a moving target so to speak.
Sorry this is so long. Probably way more info than you were wanting but it’s a complex topic.
 


Probably way more info than you were wanting but it’s a complex topic.

Actually it was exactly the info I was looking for.
I love carbs and sweets, but like you said, high protein meals do make me last longer between meals.

(Sorry for hijacking your thread herding_cats)
 
And it didn't hinder your ability to exercise?

I've tried reducing my caloric intake in the fall, and I was always ravenous. I didn't feel I had enough energy during my runs. 500 cals less a day seems like a lot, but if both you and Billy did it, it must work.

Last but not least, I would avoid trying to lose weight during a training cycle if you can. It’s one thing to be at a slight deficit for a long period of time when losing large amounts of weight like dopeybadger and I did. It’s another thing to make a short-term diet adjustment to drop 10-20 lbs. Long-term goals require long-term adjustments and your body has plenty of fuel to burn to make up for the deficit. The less weight you have to lose, the less extra fuel you are carrying around and the calorie deficit is harder on your body. You will feel the hunger more. Adding that into a training plan where your mileage is likely increasing regularly and you have hard workouts adds to the body stress.

Yep this is the same point I was going to make. It's tough to train well and lose weight simultaneously. It's a tightrope walk that I have done a few times, but more often has left me injured or underperformed. So the best time to try and lose some weight is when you aren't specifically training for an "A" race. Once your runs consistently are cresting over 60 min is when you're going to need to make sure you go back into maintaining weight and fueling the training. Of course, I don't always follow my own advice and sometimes pay the price.
 
The month of May is officially a dumpster fire. I basically haven’t run at all. I haven’t gotten in any workouts. My foot continues to randomly flare up. (Doc appt on Monday will address that.) I have 2 weeks of baseball season left (well...more like a week and a half, but close enough.)

And for the cherry on top...

On Thursday night, at a baseball game an hour from our house (about 60 miles away for you city people) my oldest fractured his hip trying to steal home. We are very much a “there needs to be a bone sticking out of you” family when it comes to sports injuries, so when DS texted me saying “Dad thinks you need to take me to the doctor” I organized the rest of the kids for the night and jumped in the car. All of the nearby urgent cares were closed by the time I got to him, so I ended up taking him to the ER, which was a first for me as a parent. I’ve had to take DH to the ER but never one of the kids. He follows up with the orthopedist on Tuesday (yes. 4 days after the injury occurred, apparently because it’s stable enough to wait that long, not that ANYONE told me that on Thursday night) and now we are all tasked with keeping our tornado of a 2 year old from touching her favorite brother.

So I guess what I’m training this month is my patience.
 
I also keep talking myself out of the idea of getting up early Monday morning and doing a run so my ankle is irritated for my appointment. 😬🤭
 
Wow, scary!! I’m sure your son is bummed he will be missing the end of the season. I hope he heals up quickly and without complications.
 
Wow, scary!! I’m sure your son is bummed he will be missing the end of the season. I hope he heals up quickly and without complications.
Yeah I did some googling, and it looks like he’s going to be non-weight-bearing for at least 6-8 weeks (which gets us into July) which means this is also going to affect his cross country season, and rule him out of summer basketball as well. It also means he probably won’t be working this summer.
 
Sorry to hear about your son!

I also keep talking myself out of the idea of getting up early Monday morning and doing a run so my ankle is irritated for my appointment. 😬🤭

I've actually taken a Sharpie and drawn an "X" on the spot where it hurts when it is actually hurting so that I could pinpoint where the pain was at my next PT appointment. In my case, it was a new/different spot than I had been struggling with. I'll admit that it was a bit unconventional (and made my PT laugh), but it worked.
 
Update time! Runs completed since my last post: 0.

Be shocked.

Last week was trying to say the least, but it had some bright spots too. After DS busted his pelvis, my 6/7th grade team coach texted to let me know that his oldest son had tested positive for 'rona, and he and his wife were at the office also getting tested and he would let me know when they got the results. That was Friday. Initial test was negative, but the next day he was sick and tested positive. Quickly emailed our athletic director to figure out when he would be allowed to come back and coach because I do not have enough room on my plate to coach TWO MS baseball teams with everything else going on. The answer was: next week. Super. So I got to coach games on Monday and Tuesday, DH had a (JV) game on Wednesday, and I was scheduled for games Thursday and Friday. Thankfully I had a great group of parents volunteer to run practices on days I had to coach the 8th grade team games, and my assistant coach ran practices on the days I had to coach the 6/7th grade team games. Friday got rained out, (there was a F3 tornado about 2 hours away from us, in the same storm system, that did some major damage) which meant that every day was a "go until 8 or 9pm" day.

Bright spots: the 6/7th team won a couple of games (their first of the year!), DS got good news at the orthopedist (further down), and we decided to put in a garden this year after taking the last couple of summers off. So I got to make about 5 trips to the greenhouse, which is one of my happy places.

Physical: I have paperwork from my doc to get my thyroid and ferratin serum checked, AND a script for PT for my ankle. She mentioned that it might be a gait issue, but IDK because I've only run like 2 or 3x in the last 2 months and it's not getting any better. I obviously did not manage to get the bloodwork NOR the PT set up last week. She was completely unconcerned with my weight gain (I'm technically up 7# since last year's appointment weight, but I had gone on to lose 10# during the summer, which I since gained back, plus the 7.) She did suggest that if my tiredness persists, and my bloodwork comes back normal, AND if DD starts sleeping better, that I consider a sleep study since apnea runs in my family. Now, for most, if not all of them, the apnea is heavily influenced by being overweight. So that's another motivator for me to get my weight back down, but since my brother also had surgery for his apnea, the possibility for structurally-influenced apnea is there as well. One thing at a time though.

DS's hip: Saw the Orthopedist on Tuesday. Basically he's about as good as it gets for someone with this type of injury. Everything is lined up really, really well, and he won't need surgery unless something crazy happens. He remains 100% non-weight-bearing (we rented a wheelchair for a month) until his next appointment, and depending on what shows up on xrays, they may allow him to start walking on it. That will be 3 weeks post-fracture and a HUGE difference from what google was saying, which was 6-8wks no-weight and then re-evaluate. Our XC coaches are so nice too; our boys coach reached out this morning asking if DS would possibly be able to use an elliptical-style bike over the summer since it would be very low-impact as they are considering purchasing one for the team. I'm hoping he CAN use it because that would allow him to attend and participate in the summer running program, have some sort of cardio conditioning, and be able to socialize/bond with his team. Definitely on the list of things to ask the doc in a week and a half.

Goals for the week:

-Drop off the referral and schedule PT for myself.
-Get my bloodwork done
-Get on the spin bike 3x (my 8th grade team finishes their season on Tuesday, so nap time can go back to "normal" and I can hopefully start getting workouts in again.)
-Start tracking food in MFP. Ugh. Not looking forward to this.
 
Goals for the week:

-Drop off the referral and schedule PT for myself.
Check. Need to call tomorrow and make sure they put me with the PT I want because I was scrambling to make it back to the school on time for a baseball game when I dropped it off. The tech who did my blood draw took almost 40min to do that *sigh*

-Get my bloodwork done
Check

-Get on the spin bike 3x (my 8th grade team finishes their season on Tuesday, so nap time can go back to "normal" and I can hopefully start getting workouts in again.)
HAHAHAHAHAHHA! Yeah. Didn't happen. None of it, including a normal nap schedule.

-Start tracking food in MFP. Ugh. Not looking forward to this.
I did part of one day and quit. I really, really, really dislike doing this. If I could get myself organized to meal-prep it would be a lot easier because then I could just select a "meal" to add on a regular basis. So maybe that needs to be the goal first. Plus, DH's birthday was this weekend, we did a LOT of running around for other stuff now that baseball is finished (for me) and ended up eating a lot of "convenience" foods this past week as we attempted to get to all of the places and do all of the things.
DH looked at his medal rack yesterday and commented on how he wants "more" on it. (He also send me the link for the summer series a couple of weeks ago, as if it were something I didn't know about and I happily informed him that I had already signed up for it.) And then after he saw someone on his FB feed talking about the race they did yesterday (which was the half SIL and I did last year and DH and BIL ran the 10k) he told me "we should have done that." So who knows, maybe I'll end up being able to get him out on some runs with me semi-regularly this summer. And after he gets paid for a few jobs he just finished up maybe I'll sign him up for the virtual W&D challenge since it's a Genie medal.


This is the part where I'm starting to prematurely freak out: I haven't run in basically 2 months, and I'm signed up for Dopey. I am starting to get nervous about the training, and fitting it in to everything that's going on, and "doing justice" to the challenge since I know there were sooooo many people who weren't able to get registered. Logically I know that I have lots of time, but there's that little part of my brain that's starting to say hey, you really need to start actually doing some stuff here or you're going to majorly suffer in January. (And the logical part of my brain also knows there was no way of knowing that this ankle issue would still be a thing after taking an extended break, that DS would break his pelvis, or all of the other stuff that sort of snow-balled this spring to eat up all of my "free time.") I very much want to grab a training plan and get started on it, but I also think that I need to get into my first PT appointment before I make any plans for that kind of stuff.

TENTATIVELY, I think SIL and I are going to try to do the Sept 18th "trail" race that's local (15 weeks-ish). I say "trail" because that only means that it's not paved, it's a rail-trail so it's completely flat and mostly straight. We are also discussing running something for Sleeping Bear on Oct 1st (17 weeks-ish) instead because we really like the shirt and the medal, but the timing isn't great for my schedule because of XC, but maybe we could do the 5k if DS1 isn't competing. It's a long drive to the meet for DS2 to run for <20min.

I may also run the Firecracker 5k, but not for time (not sure what the plan is for me working this summer now because of DS1....will probably know more on Thursday when he has his follow-up appointment.)

Goals for the week:
-Get at least 3 runs completed
-Meal prep lunch stuff that I can use regularly for ease of use in MFP
-Double check which PT they scheduled me with
 
I totally understand the freak out. If I were in your boat, I would be freaking out too. But, you are right. You have time. I know you would prefer to be doing more right now, but the smart play is to see the PT and not potentially do any further harm. Once you have a better handle on the ankle it will be easier to come up with a game plan. I also understand the desire to do justice to the challenge since so many who wanted it couldn’t register. Use that desire to get you through the days you aren’t feeling like running for the rest of the year leading up to Dopey. You can definitely do it!
 

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