Covid And The Rest of Us

[NFLDERS]

No thanks.

The offering is from a Canadian surgeon whom points out the younger adults tune into these mediums, they are not watching the news or listening in general.

 

[godisney14]

I agree with it. We don't need to lockdown again. What we should be doing is finding away to get to the under 40 crowd. That's where the cases are now. A wedding in Durham had 8 cases traced back to it. There is probably more but people won't say who all was there.

At least according to CDC data, there has not been a significant shift in age distribution. Maybe a few %’s here and there. Not saying that is insignificant, though.

Here’s a chart from CDC for June, July, and August.

 

[ronandannette]

The offering is from a Canadian surgeon whom points out the younger adults tune into these mediums, they are not watching the news or listening in general.

He should have stuck with Insta or SnapChat. There are serious and legitimate concerns about the security and ideology of TikTok and WeChat.

 

[bavaria]

He should have stuck with Insta or SnapChat. There are serious and legitimate concerns about the security and ideology of TikTok and WeChat.

And I would think that especially in Canada, with a large HK diaspora, these concerns would be known by the general public. Then again, there is a large CCP supported faction which also distorts messaging.

(On a side note, did anyone here get the CCP cut and pate 'we are ok' message in January/February? This was a standard message everyone in China was apparently supposed to add to any email, Etsy purchase, work inquiry, etc going outside China, and they were given a cut and paste message to use in various languages. I have some younger colleagues in China who dutifully did so, and every purchase I made from China had the same message with the same wording. Yet my older Chinese colleague who has shown a lot of skepticism and critical thought did not use the standard message, and even sent me a few messages which I think were trying to pass a different opinion.)

 

[bavaria]

How does everyone feel about this? Melbourne won't allow indoor dining until 14 consecutive days of zero cases. I've said before that I think that is an unachievable target (and what happens if they reopen and there is a case?)

Granted, it is coming into summer, and Melbourne has a lot of outdoor dining and terraces, but I'm sure the vast majority of small operations do not and cannot provide outdoor dining.

In Germany there is a new rule that people who provide false data at restaurants can be fined (not sure how that is monitored; I always forget my phone number for instance, and unless one is using the name Angela Merkel or Mickey Mouse not sure how they can track)

Outside of Bavaria the various states are generally more open about rules (not that many in Bavaria to begin with) and yesterday I was told a few times 'you can remove your mask you know'. Yet deaths are still pretty much flat since the spring, even with rising cases.

Weddings are an issue here too. Every time I hear a report of COVID spread due to a wedding, I stop for a moment because Germans don't really have those! A few people at the town hall for a civil ceremony, and photos, is the norm. But these weddings. like the one in Hamm infected 232 people, are often being hosted by our Muslim or Turkish fellow residents. It's a difficult topic, and Mrs Merkel was very clear in her Easter message that we must consider all religions and all cultures which make up the society here.

 

[bavaria]

And on a final note, as we are coming up to the 30th anniversary of reunification this weekend, let me add the words of our Bundestag President, who managed the negotiations 30 years ago to reunify the country.... And back in the spring he already spoke out that saving lives at all costs should not be the primary goal.

In view of the massive restrictions on fundamental rights in the Corona crisis, Bundestag President Wolfgang Schäuble (CDU) has warned against subordinating everything to the protection of life. 'If there is any absolute value in the Basic Law, then it is human dignity'

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutsch...s-vor-dem-Schutz-von-Leben-zuruecktreten.html

 

[ronandannette]

And I would think that especially in Canada, with a large HK diaspora, these concerns would be known by the general public. Then again, there is a large CCP supported faction which also distorts messaging.

(On a side note, did anyone here get the CCP cut and pate 'we are ok' message in January/February? This was a standard message everyone in China was apparently supposed to add to any email, Etsy purchase, work inquiry, etc going outside China, and they were given a cut and paste message to use in various languages. I have some younger colleagues in China who dutifully did so, and every purchase I made from China had the same message with the same wording. Yet my older Chinese colleague who has shown a lot of skepticism and critical thought did not use the standard message, and even sent me a few messages which I think were trying to pass a different opinion.)

Sometimes it’s surprising what people don’t know. The phrase “Free the Michaels” (which should be the heartcry of every Canadian) draws a blank stare from many here. While practically everyone can discuss the ridiculous spectacle of the US presidential debate many are unaware of the position Canada has been forced into by America’s demand that we continue to detain Meng Wanzhou. Many have not heard of our predicament regarding vaccines when our huge investment in a joint venture with the Chinese government was exploited and betrayed.

All things that personally affect each one of us. Let alone the larger geopolitical implications of the insidious over-reach of such an oppressive regime or the conditions under which the people live. There was even misguided praise on these very boards for the Xinjiang camps as a way to contain Covid, which is totally not what they are about.

 

[ronandannette]

How does everyone feel about this? Melbourne won't allow indoor dining until 14 consecutive days of zero cases. I've said before that I think that is an unachievable target (and what happens if they reopen and there is a case?)...

...Weddings are an issue here too. Every time I hear a report of COVID spread due to a wedding, I stop for a moment because Germans don't really have those! A few people at the town hall for a civil ceremony, and photos, is the norm. But these weddings. like the one in Hamm infected 232 people, are often being hosted by our Muslim or Turkish fellow residents. It's a difficult topic, and Mrs Merkel was very clear in her Easter message that we must consider all religions and all cultures which make up the society here.

I think I’ve made my views on the futility of zero-cases as a goal, and the resultant revolving-door shut-downs quite clear.

As for the issue of diverse cultural practices, it hasn’t become much of an issue, at least here in Alberta. All religious institutions and people of every creed are subject to the same restrictions. Mosques and temples have gone on-line just like churches and there is no exemption for their gatherings.

 

[bavaria]

I think I’ve made my views on the futility of zero-cases as a goal, and the resultant revolving-door shut-downs quite clear.

As for the issue of diverse cultural practices, it hasn’t become much of an issue, at least here in Alberta. All religious institutions and people of every creed are subject to the same restrictions. Mosques and temples have gone on-line just like churches and there is no exemption for their gatherings.

I think that more and more, there are politicians and epidemiologists starting to speak up that lock downs are not realistic and do not produce the desired results. Nor is a zero case goal realistic. Countries with harsh lock downs have not been able to eliminate the virus, and are not having better results than countries which are fairly or almost entirely open. And figures continue to show that deaths are not as projected in most of the world.

From the UK:
"Data from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) shows that last week ten times as many people died from the flu and pneumonia than of Covid-19."

"The ONS states that 12.6 per cent of deaths were caused by flu and pneumonia, against 1.1 per cent that were caused by Covid-19. Last month the ONS revealed that conditions such as dementia and heart disease had overtaken the virus. Data from the ONS also revealed that deaths not involving Covid-19 increased above the five-year average for the third consecutive week."

 

[Karin1984]

Our blood bank in NL has announced that they have developed medication for people with a weak immune system to temporarily create antibodies against coronavirus Late October they will start testing, they are already in discussion with the Health department.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Melbourne won't allow indoor dining until 14 consecutive days of zero cases. I've said before that I think that is an unachievable target (and what happens if they reopen and there is a case?)

I'm much more comfortable about eating outside myself. Fall is quickly approaching here but I do know restaurants have been trying to get heat lamps more (which are somewhat on a shortage) so we can sit outside longer into the year than normal. The ventilation inside is my concern and that won't necessarily matter how many people are in the inside. But I don't think that no indoor dining under those circumstances of no cases for 14 days seems reasonable to me.

Australia and New Zealand IDK they worry me on the front of these ups and downs. My impression, which can be completely wrong, is they act like the virus is just up and gone every time they get the case load to null or very teensy tiny. I mean this with absolutely no ill will or offense meant but from an outsider's perspective it almost comes across that the measures are a punishment when cases reemerge which we know almost assuredly they will reemerge. I already have times of hopelessness that pop up every now and then but I think knowing myself I would feel that so much more if I was in a situation where it was lock down so severely at a moment's notice, such tight restrictions and at least my impression of feeling like it's my fault that a case was found and now indoor dining (among many other things it would appear) can't be done until that's back to zero cases and for 2 weeks.

 

[elphaba91]

How does everyone feel about this? Melbourne won't allow indoor dining until 14 consecutive days of zero cases. I've said before that I think that is an unachievable target (and what happens if they reopen and there is a case?)

Granted, it is coming into summer, and Melbourne has a lot of outdoor dining and terraces, but I'm sure the vast majority of small operations do not and cannot provide outdoor dining.

That is incorrect. Indoor dining is permitted under step 3 of reopening, which has already occurred in regional Victoria and is on track to happen by 19 October in Melbourne (a week ahead of the original schedule). There are limits of up to 50 patrons outdoors with a 2 square metre rule and up to 10 per indoor space with up to 2 spaces per restaurant with a 4 square metre rule. https://www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/cafes-and-restaurants-regional-victoria-third-step-covid-19

After 14 days of zero cases there are up to 50 patrons permitted indoors.

To assist businesses they are going to open up outdoor dining areas on footpaths, in laneways, in car parks, etc, give cash grants and also assist with outdoor dining permits.https://www.theage.com.au/national/...outdoor-dining-precincts-20201001-p560z2.html

Our Chief Health Officer has also indicated that his department may allow some flexibility with the reopening targets if the sources of the cases are known and clusters seem to be contained. We will see what the Premier says about that though.

As a Melburnian my feelings on our restrictions go up and down. At times it seems absurd that we are on such a long and tough lockdown when practically everywhere else in the world has much higher numbers than us and much more freedom. But then you look at the other states and see how much more freedom they have after really knocking this virus on the head and it definitely is good motivation to keep going.

And on a final note, as we are coming up to the 30th anniversary of reunification this weekend, let me add the words of our Bundestag President, who managed the negotiations 30 years ago to reunify the country.... And back in the spring he already spoke out that saving lives at all costs should not be the primary goal.
https://www.welt.de/politik/deutsch...s-vor-dem-Schutz-von-Leben-zuruecktreten.html

Funnily, reunification of OUR country is the biggest motivation for Victoria at the moment. If we are to see our friends and family interstate then we have no choice but to get down to zero cases or close.

Weddings are an issue here too. Every time I hear a report of COVID spread due to a wedding, I stop for a moment because Germans don't really have those! A few people at the town hall for a civil ceremony, and photos, is the norm. But these weddings. like the one in Hamm infected 232 people, are often being hosted by our Muslim or Turkish fellow residents. It's a difficult topic, and Mrs Merkel was very clear in her Easter message that we must consider all religions and all cultures which make up the society here.

In Melbourne we have definitely had issues with people from certain cultures and religions. A few months ago there were lots of cases linked to people illegally gathering to celebrate a religious holiday and just recently there were cases amongst a group of households from a particular ethnic background who were again breaching the rules (but weren’t fined).

We get told that it’s unfair, that they aren’t being consulted and the messaging doesn’t take into account their particular needs. Then when the Chief Health Officer (who has previously lived in the country where these most recent families are from) offers to speak to the community personally, he is forced to apologise for targeting them! It is a very tricky problem and hard to separate out the actual cultural and language barriers (and I’m sure sheer bad luck in some cases) from those who are just out and out breaking the rules and I’m sure frustrating the members of their religious and cultural communities just as much.

 

[MommyinHonduras]

Our land borders open this month. Everyone entering needs a negative covid test done within 72 hours to be allowed to enter.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

That is incorrect.

Though I'm not the poster you quoted thanks for clarification.

But then you look at the other states and see how much more freedom they have after really knocking this virus on the head and it definitely is good motivation to keep going.

Motivation would be great!..if the issue was we know how to eradicate the virus, we're on the last step and just need a little oomph to get there. As is there's nothing out there that gives an indication that the virus is eradicated, and we know the pathway in that region of the world is towards eradication, so it just seems like a never-ending cycle. And it sounds more and more like a punishment to you as you mentioned you see the freedoms the other states in your country has and you want that. I know you may not at all see it as a punishment and I'm not trying to say you should. It just really seems like that, you have to bear the brunt of a virus that isn't behaving in a way that your measures being done think it is. In a way that's why it's even more interesting to me the letter from the doctors in Canada. This is all in the spirit of discussion, I'm not in any way trying to disparage your country

 

[Karin1984]

Remember that we had the first big musical theatre show back in action early September? They had to close for two weeks, 15 people in the cast got Corona (that's 40% of the cast All mild symptoms. Initially they had to close the show for a few days as there were no understudies in certain parts, by then it became clear that that one cough was more than just a cough.

 

[NFLDERS]

He should have stuck with Insta or SnapChat. There are serious and legitimate concerns about the security and ideology of TikTok and WeChat.

I see, oh... I thought this was a Trump(ed) up situation.

 

[ronandannette]

I see, oh... I thought this was a Trump(ed) up situation.

No, it honestly isn't. The Americans are much bolder though in putting their foot down. The (very) short version is that the internet and social media platforms in China are censored (no FaceBook or Twitter there) and the approved ones such as TikTok and WeChat are monitored by the government.

 

[Karin1984]

So, while the government is still working out how to do a mask mandate, I had to run some errands this morning. And I was surprised how many masks I already saw, my rough guess would be 40-50% of the people were wearing a mask. All age groups. So, that is looking good.

We have a student protest today. University and college students are protesting to get more in-person-education. Yesterday it was announced that highschools will get a mask mandate but university and colleges have more options to keep distance.

Our MP wishes the US President a speedy recovery.

Our airline has finally reached a compromise with the unions representing ground staff, cabin crew and most importantly the captains regarding pay cuts etc.
This was a condition from our government to get 3.4 billion euro support.

One supermarket had 60 (about 50%) of their shopping trolleys stolen over the course of the last few weeks. People take them home so they have their own personal trolley... Only supermarkets use the trolley to measure how many people are inside ;-) So now they are trying to get them back.

 

[ronandannette]

So, while the government is still working out how to do a mask mandate, I had to run some errands this morning. And I was surprised how many masks I already saw, my rough guess would be 40-50% of the people were wasing a mask. All age groups. So, that is looking good.

We have a student protest today. University and college students are protesting to get more in-person-education. Yesterday it was announced that highschools will get a mask mandate but university and colleges have more options to keep distance.

Our MP wishes the US President a speedy recovery.

Our airline has finally reached a compromise with the unions representing ground staff, cabin crew and most importantly the captains regarding pay cuts etc.
This was a condition from our government to get 3.4 billion euro support.

One supermarket had 60 (about 50%) of their shopping trolleys stolen over the course of the last few weeks. People take them home so they have their own personal trolley... Only supermarkets use the trolley to measure how many people are inside ;-) So now they are trying to get them back.

 

[ronandannette]

Education in Canada is a provincial jurisdiction so it may be different in other parts of the country. Here in Alberta our K-12 students have the choice between in-class, on-line learning or home schooling. All schools at that level are open for those who want to attend. Post-secondary though is 100% distance-learning. The college and university campuses have not re-opened and have no target for doing so. It’s a very unfortunate situation.