Couple Arrested for Refusing to Pay Tip

[kaytieeldr]

Sorry--but I am sensing HEAVY ENTITLEMENT issues here and it peeves me off that a server behaves as if they can make no error and if they ever did, it was someone elses fault and their tip should not be compromised.

Reading the article, it doesn't appear the server had any issue with the lack of service charge. The person who took the check and the money - i.e. the bartender - did, and is the one who called the police when the customer refused to provide enough money to cover the entire check total.

 

[kaytieeldr]

They got arrested for not tipping!

I'm sure that didn't happen to any parties of 5 or less that evening.

Of course it didn't. Parties of five or fewer are not subject to a restaurant's mandatory service charge for larger groups. Their check reflects only the food and beverage ordered. Tip in that case is optional and to be determined by the diner.

Parties of six (eight) or more, the mandatory service charge stated on the menu (not on the subsequent bill/check) IS part of the bill.

 

[JOCAmom]

Maybe I missed it in the article, but did it say why only 2 out of the 8 people were arrested?

 

[kaytieeldr]

When you go in usually on the menu it will usually say groups of 6 or more 15% w ill be add to your bill. I think when you read that and still stay there then you agree to the terms of the resturant

It usually also says that it's added for your convenience and that you do not have to pay it if you aren't happy.

I've never seen a menu that states "An 18% service charge will be added to parties of six or more*" that also states what you claim - that it's for convenience and you don't have to pay it if you don't want. You're probably thinking of the check at the end of the meal.

*"18%" and "six" used for convenience - the percentage may be different and the minimum number of diners may be higher.

 

[kaytieeldr]

It just doesn't make sense that the restaurant would call the cops on the tip if they had already offered to comp the meal.

But it would be reasonable to surmise that the comp offer was made some time during the hour the party waited (and possibly complained, or possibly the server let management know there was a problem, or maybe there was a problem in the kitchen...) and were turned down. So they ate, they got their check, and went to pay it with only enough money for the food and tax.

 

[wic0721]

Wait time on food NOT the server's fault.

Silverware, napkins and drinks are the servers responsibilities though! I am a former waitress, and tips are optional....TIP (To Insure Promptness). I have left a few dirty upsidedown pennies (that's considered an insult) for other waitstaff when I was not given good service. In this economy, no establishment should be providing paying customers bad service.

I can't believe they called the police over a tip, talk about chasing away your customers!

 

[Papa Deuce]

Of course it didn't. Parties of five or fewer are not subject to a restaurant's mandatory service charge for larger groups. Their check reflects only the food and beverage ordered. Tip in that case is optional and to be determined by the diner.

Parties of six (eight) or more, the mandatory service charge stated on the menu (not on the subsequent bill/check) IS part of the bill.

No. We are not talking about a service charge. We are talking about a GRATUITY.

BTW, does anybody else see this happening? 8 people go into a restaurant and ask for 2 tables, side by side, so that they can have 2 different checks and avoid all the 18% gratuity nonsense that is not imposed on tables of 4?

BTW, I have tipped as high as 50%. I have also tipped 0%. But what my mother told me - she was a waitress for 25 years - is the best way to show your server that you didn't like the service was to leave 1 or 2 cents.

 

[N.Bailey]

Makes sense to me.
Even when a meal is discounted or free (examples: coupon, gift certificate, bogo, bogoho...) the diner is still expected to tip on the menu price of the items selected and eaten.
And without even seeing the menu, I'm confident in saying there is a line at the bottom of each page of the menu stating "An 18% service charge will be added to parties of six (eight) or more". Service charge. Not tip, not gratuity. Service charge. (not addressed to the quoted poster, but to posters calling this a tip and claiming the restaurant can't demand it.

Actually, I looked into this as best I could last night and did indeed say a gratuity, not a service charge.

A service charge would become the property of the establishment, and in no way is a server entitled to it. If the establishment is willing to claim it as part of their daily intake of funds, by all means, let them ask for it and let them pay the tax on it. If however they want to turn around and hand it to a server, they are committing fraud at that point. They are bypassing the law to defraud their customers. Now, no court has ruled on this part of it yet, but IMO, it's only a matter of time.

The courts have said a restaurant cannot mandate customers tip X amount.

If the restaurant wants to go that route, they are free to raise menu prices by 18% (or whatever % they feel is justified), and raise their server's wages to fall in line.

A gratuity is a gift and in the eyes of the law, it will remain that way.

 

[N.Bailey]

Restaurant industry in the U.S. as a whole has determined that, generally, large parties undertip. Everybody thinks somebody else got the tip, or when they split the bill either people undercalculate the tip or just don't take it into account, etc. Mandatory service charge listed on each - or even just one - menu page, with its conditions, is designed to avoid this problem.

Just as when one orders a $7 appetizer or a $16 entree or a $2 soda or a market-price lobster, one expects to have pay the amount listed on the menu or quoted by the server, parties consisting of the indicated number of diners or more should reasonably expect to have to pay the posted percentage as the service charge.

I don't think there was a conspiracy out there that declared large parties don't tip or under tip. It's also not the restaurant industry's job to create laws.

Having said that, I believe there is so much work involved in waiting on a large party that if they didn't tip, the server would really suffer a financial hardship. It's not out of a belief that they won't tip, but rather, a fact if they don't tip, it will effect that server's wage significantly. It's easier to rebound if you're stiffed on a 2 top rather than a 10 top.

As a former waitress, I "get" the theory of it and I am appalled that some people just choose not to tip for no reason whatsoever, other than they are just too dang cheap.

That still doesn't mean the restaurant has the right to impose the automatic gratuity.

The same could be said that if a person is waiting on too many tables when a party comes in, they might be too busy to give good service. I feel bad for the waitress under these circumstances, but a tip is indeed based on services rendered. No guest should have an obligation to tip if they received little to no service, or worse, downright rude service. By the very definition, it's a gift.

 

[CathrynRose]

No. We are not talking about a service charge. We are talking about a GRATUITY.

BTW, does anybody else see this happening? 8 people go into a restaurant and ask for 2 tables, side by side, so that they can have 2 different checks and avoid all the 18% gratuity nonsense that is not imposed on tables of 4?

BTW, I have tipped as high as 50%. I have also tipped 0%. But what my mother told me - she was a waitress for 25 years - is the best way to show your server that you didn't like the service was to leave 1 or 2 cents.

Go ahead and do that. Just as I stated in my first post on this thread, that's what my party did. They were still a party, and the gratuity was still added.

And the penny thing really grosses me out. Thanks for the handy tip (no pun intended) on how to insult a server. Two of you have now posted this.

FTR - I served for about 8 or so years, and never heard this 'dirty, upside penny' thing, nor have I ever received one.

How about - if your service is so terrible, you speak with a manager about it. and not dig through your change to find your dirtiest penny, to leave upside down for your server?

 

[N.Bailey]

Of course it didn't. Parties of five or fewer are not subject to a restaurant's mandatory service charge for larger groups. Their check reflects only the food and beverage ordered. Tip in that case is optional and to be determined by the diner.

Parties of six (eight) or more, the mandatory service charge stated on the menu (not on the subsequent bill/check) IS part of the bill.

Yes, but you keep working under a false assumption that the restaurant ever had a legal ability to impose such charges. They simply do not.

 

[N.Bailey]

But it would be reasonable to surmise that the comp offer was made some time during the hour the party waited (and possibly complained, or possibly the server let management know there was a problem, or maybe there was a problem in the kitchen...) and were turned down. So they ate, they got their check, and went to pay it with only enough money for the food and tax.

Speculate much? Where did you even come up with that? Out of thin air? Wow, tell that story in a courtroom.

 

[Papa Deuce]

BTW, we went out to dinner tonight. My bill INCLUDING tax was $42.33. I left a $7.77 tip. ( 6% tax ) ... so I don't know what that works out to, but more than 15%, I am sure.

 

[N.Bailey]

Go ahead and do that. Just as I stated in my first post on this thread, that's what my party did. They were still a party, and the gratuity was still added.

And the penny thing really grosses me out. Thanks for the handy tip (no pun intended) on how to insult a server. Two of you have now posted this.

FTR - I served for about 8 or so years, and never heard this 'dirty, upside penny' thing, nor have I ever received one.

How about - if your service is so terrible, you speak with a manager about it. and not dig through your change to find your dirtiest penny, to leave upside down for your server?

I do agree it would be nice if they'd speak to the manager, but again, the law can't mandate the customer do that.

Every case I have ever heard of where a guest complained about the service, the manager has always taken it off the bill. It's really the best thing one can do when dealing with the public. It won't stand up on the legalities, but more important than that, you need to keep good customer relations.

I do feel the restaurants have good intentions and are trying to look out for their waitstaff when they try to impose these gratuities, but ultimately, they can't be enforced. One just hopes that most people just pay it. That's exactly what they should do if they received good service (and maybe leave more on the table if it were exceptional service).

 

[disneyfav4ever]

If I ever have a major problem with service, I would be talking to a manager. If it's bad enough to leave no tip, or only a few cents, then I think it's worth talking to managment.

 

[AKLBeauty]

If I ever have a major problem with service, I would be talking to a manager. If it's bad enough to leave no tip, or only a few cents, then I think it's worth talking to managment.

While that is ideal, some people do NOT like causing a scene (and if a manager comes over, even unobtrusively, that can cause discomfort for some) and would rather just not tip and leave. That is ok.

 

[Papa Deuce]

While that is ideal, some people do NOT like causing a scene (and if a manager comes over, even unobtrusively, that can cause discomfort for some) and would rather just not tip and leave. That is ok.

Now there is a question for happygirl.... as a server, would you rather be stiffed, or have the manager pulled aside to say you gave poor service... personally, if it was me, I would rather be stiffed.

 

[disneylandkitkat]

If you’re frustrated by poor service at a restaurant, think twice before you decide to not tip. You may be in for a bit more than just a dirty look from the waiter.

"Nobody, nobody wants to be forced to pay a tip or be arrested for terrible service," Leslie Pope said when her happy hour ended in handcuffs.

Pope and John Wagner were hauled away by police and charged with theft for not paying the mandatory 18 percent gratuity totaling $16 after eating at the Lehigh Pub in Bethlehem, Pa. with six friends.

Pope claimed that they had to wait nearly an hour for their order and that she had to get napkins and silverware for the table herself.

“At this point I became very annoyed because I had already gone up to the bar myself to have my soda refilled because the waitress never came back,” Pope said.

After the $73 bill came, the group paid for food, drinks, and tax but refused to pay the tip. After explaining the bad service to the bartender in charge, Pope claimed he took their money and called police. The couple was handcuffed and placed in the back of a police car.

“I understand that, you know, we didn’t pay the gratuity, but it was a gratuity, it wasn’t something that was required,” said Wagner.

The owner admitted that the group waited unusually long for their food, but said the pub was extremely busy that night. He said managers offered to comp the food, a claim the couple denies ever happened.

“Obviously we would have liked for the patron and the establishment to have worked this out without getting the police involved,” said Deputy Police Commissioner Stuart Bedics.

Police charged them with theft since the gratuity was part of the actual bill. However, it is doubtful that the charges will hold up in front of a judge. The couple is scheduled to appear in court next month.

This might make for an interesting conversation. Can a restaurant make a gratuity mandatory, under penalty of law?? Why would a restaurant risk negative publicity for $16?

I have to go make dinner... I expect this thread to be at seven pages within an hour. [/QUOTE]

that's crazy... tip are earned not given

 

[Papa Deuce]

I'm still at a loss as to why it was $16. As I mentioned earlier, the "tip" should have been just about $13.


18% of $73 is $13.14....

 

[N.Bailey]

I'm still at a loss as to why it was $16. As I mentioned earlier, the "tip" should have been just about $13.


18% of $73 is $13.14....

Me too, and if the person who said they thought some of the bill might have been comped is correct, it would imply that they did indeed speak with management.

It just doesn't make much sense. The bottom line for me is, while they may be cheap (assuming they lied about everything and I'm not conceding that at all), this is simply not enforceable and it's very bad PR.

They're wasting the court's time, just like they wasted the taxpayers money by calling the police in the first place.