Couple Arrested for Refusing to Pay Tip

[dbriggsq]

ummm, I think you should read my posts. I think you're misinterpreting something I might have said. I am 100% against mandatory tipping and will quote the law to back my position up if need be.

Sorry - I was just going by this post.

Please see my post 271 for my thoughts.

 

[happygirl]

Nope that was me! Post 243 to 246 if you're interested.

I really don't care what post it was. If you are going to say I said something please quote me correctly

 

[MIGrandma]

Maybe someone would like to start a "general" tipping thread - not to be confused or jaded by the news article that started this whole conversation..

Personally I think it's fascinating - the various view points..

There used to be a web site devoted to tipping. I went there several times, but this was years ago and I'm not even sure the site even exists now but you could google and maybe find it, I don't know.

It was amazing the "discussions" between wait staff/and non-wait staff. Wow. Some people could get nasty. It was...interesting, though.

 

[merryweather20]

I really don't care what post it was. If you are going to say I said something please quote me correctly

If you want me to do that you can start out by fixing your own posts 243 to 246 where you grossly mischaracterized one of my posts.

 

[CathrynRose]

If you want me to do that you can start out by fixing your own posts 243 to 246 where you grossly mischaracterized one of my posts.

Are you talking about this:

I don't think anybody is talking about fantastic service here. I think most people here agree the large table that stiffed you are jerks.

But happygirl posted that she'd pretty much spit in a waitress's face before she'd leave no tip. If someone gives me no service again, like the no-cuttlery waitress, I have no problem leaving them no tip. I would never spit in someone's face.

That's what you said, that upset her. I think.

 

[curious3069]

My .02 cents. I go to a sit down restaurant to be waited on. Not to get my own silverware, refill my own drinks, etc etc etc. It's really not my fault if the restaurant is busy, management should have a plan for that and the plan isn't "you should go elsewhere so it's your fault if you stay" Um, no, if I stay, that means I'm willing to wait and then expect you to server me when I get a table.

A gratuity is for service, not to keep someone from spitting in your food. (not quite sure how that works as the tip comes at the end of the meal, after I've eaten?) No service means no gratuity. It's pretty simple and the excuses I keep hearing for not giving service makes me wonder how people stay employed.

For the record, I've had horrible service before and I've never ever not left a tip. Just because the wait staff are bad doesn't mean the bus person, etc. are.

 

[merryweather20]

Are you talking about this:



That's what you said, that upset her. I think.

I'm saying I'm indifferent about her concerns with that post because she said I wanted Johnny on the spot perfection and I thought waitresses were pond scum, when I posted that I wanted bare bones service like a napkin, and cutlery.

SHe doesn't seem to concerned about upsetting me

 

[OceanAnnie]

Maybe someone would like to start a "general" tipping thread - not to be confused or jaded by the news article that started this whole conversation..

Personally I think it's fascinating - the various view points..

Indeed.

 

[SanFranciscan]

Maybe if they put a buzzer on the table like they do on airplanes--then the servers can just sit aside until we call them. But then dinner may be limited to a small bag of honey roasted peanuts and a small cup filled with glaciers and a few drops of soda.

That buzzer actually sounds like an excellent idea. I remember going to refill coffee cups, water glasses, etc. and had customers glare at me because they were talking. Their conversation was of no interest to me, but they seemed to assume that I was eavesdropping. I didn't ask why they were discussing something embarrassing to them in a public place, but you know that I was thinking it.

I don't know whose side to take in this particular case being discussed here, but it is not hard to figure out why more restaurants have gone to counter service only. I have been neglected by servers long enough that I have gotten up and walked out without ordering anything so I am not the sort of person who thinks that a server can do no wrong. Yet, if I owned a restaurant, it would not be a table service restaurant because it is not worth the headache. I would not want to have tipped employees because while I could fire a terrible server who just didn't care, I couldn't protect those who did from customers who deserve to be fired because they are too cheap to leave a tip and complain about their food after they have practically licked their plates clean. At counter service, customers who don't bring the food back uneaten don't get their money back.

 

[MIGrandma]

It's really not my fault if the restaurant is busy, management should have a plan for that and the plan isn't "you should go elsewhere so it's your fault if you stay" Um, no, if I stay, that means I'm willing to wait and then expect you to server me when I get a table. /QUOTE]

Yes, management should have a plan for a busy restaurant, but they don't always do. I worked one night a week alone. No other waitress. Just me. And for a long time it was just me, and not even a hostess. Many times the restaurant got very, very busy. I tried many times telling the owner that she should have a second waitress there, like we did every other night (sometimes three, on Fridays and Sundays). She didn't listen to me. So I had absolutely no help. Until she finally scheduled a hostess so then I at least did have someone to bus tables, answer the phone and seat people.

But when I was completely by myself and there were 50-60 people in the restaurant do you honestly think I could give great service to everyone? Many times it was just not possible, and I hated it.

I did have a few customers like you, that didn't care that the restaurant was busy. Like someone else said, those customers looked at only their plate and their glass and if they weren't full there was a problem.

But most of my customers were super kind and understanding. They could hardly believe I was trying to take care of everyone by myself. And they tipped well, even if I couldn't give them stellar service.

But yes, management should do better to staff correctly. But they don't always, and then there are those, like you, who then blame the server for everything that doesn't go well during your dining experience.

 

[curious3069]

Wow, you are really extrapolating a whole lot from my post. Pretty sure I didn't say that I blamed the server for everything. Keep reading and you'll find that I've never stiffed anyone out of their tip, regardless of service. I know the vast majority of servers work their tails off and unfortunately, there are people who are too stingy to tip well and sometimes there are just jerks in this world who get off on acting like that.


Sorry you had a bad work experience, and frankly it sounds like it was awful for you, but that is an exceptional experience. Don't paint me with that painbrush just because I expect decent service.

 

[Took]

It's really not my fault if the restaurant is busy, management should have a plan for that and the plan isn't "you should go elsewhere so it's your fault if you stay" Um, no, if I stay, that means I'm willing to wait and then expect you to server me when I get a table. /QUOTE]

Yes, management should have a plan for a busy restaurant, but they don't always do. I worked one night a week alone. No other waitress. Just me. And for a long time it was just me, and not even a hostess. Many times the restaurant got very, very busy. I tried many times telling the owner that she should have a second waitress there, like we did every other night (sometimes three, on Fridays and Sundays). She didn't listen to me. So I had absolutely no help. Until she finally scheduled a hostess so then I at least did have someone to bus tables, answer the phone and seat people.

But when I was completely by myself and there were 50-60 people in the restaurant do you honestly think I could give great service to everyone? Many times it was just not possible, and I hated it.

I did have a few customers like you, that didn't care that the restaurant was busy. Like someone else said, those customers looked at only their plate and their glass and if they weren't full there was a problem.

But most of my customers were super kind and understanding. They could hardly believe I was trying to take care of everyone by myself. And they tipped well, even if I couldn't give them stellar service.

But yes, management should do better to staff correctly. But they don't always, and then there are those, like you, who then blame the server for everything that doesn't go well during your dining experience.

So why did you keep working in such a bad situation? Just curious.

 

[Dachman]

I can't image stiffing a server they would have to spit on my face and call me every name in the book and then some, for me not to leave them something

Well happygril you are happy but I fear you are clearly should not be speaking on this subject. If it takes a server spitting in your face for not to leave a tip then you should excuse yourself from this conversation.

I am also wondering do you show this much grace to those in other professions? When you go to the department store and the person helping you cant answer any questions then disapears never to return to help you do you just shrug your shoulders and skip off to find the next employee?

Or you have an estimate to have your car repaired and you show up and it is a bill for $2000 instead of $500, what do you say aww shucks you tried. I guess the cost of the parts changed or labor rates must have gone up......

 

[shrubber]

What is this gratuity you all speak of?

I have googled every recipe site I can find and no luck........

 

[Stacerita]

I bet the people who wait on you wish you did go to McDonalds I want to know how you know the server didn't let them know about delays, being a server for many many years, I know a little about how resturants run I don't think we are hearing the whole story about this incident, If the police arrested them there was more to the story then this. I don't know any manager who wouldn't have taken it off, I know that sometimes waitress get busy and don't get drinks filled the second you empty them, sometimes the forget silverware. BIG DEAL I have never meet a server who wouldn't bring them as soon as you ask, You expect for server to be perfect and never make mistakes, I can't image stiffing a server they would have to spit on my face and call me every name in the book and then some, for me not to leave them something

Yikes.....Im sorry, I have too much self esteem to let someone do this to me before I refuse to tip.

Are you joking me C Ann this lady isn't a great tipper, she thinks it okay not to leave a tip if the server isn't Johnny on the spot any mistakes and there goes the tip. This poster give off the impression that server are just below pond scum on the totom pole.

I don't recall this ever being stated.

Maybe someone would like to start a "general" tipping thread - not to be confused or jaded by the news article that started this whole conversation..

Personally I think it's fascinating - the various view points..

Yes it is facinating.

 

[kaytieeldr]

If the restaurant offered to comp the meal (as they claim), why not instead let the couple pay the $73 bill (which they did) and then give the $16 tip to the waiter from that money? Then the restaurant could keep the remaining $57 and come out ahead.

This story makes no sense to me.

Makes sense to me.
Even when a meal is discounted or free (examples: coupon, gift certificate, bogo, bogoho...) the diner is still expected to tip on the menu price of the items selected and eaten.
And without even seeing the menu, I'm confident in saying there is a line at the bottom of each page of the menu stating "An 18% service charge will be added to parties of six (eight) or more". Service charge. Not tip, not gratuity. Service charge. (not addressed to the quoted poster, but to posters calling this a tip and claiming the restaurant can't demand it.

 

[MIGrandma]

So why did you keep working in such a bad situation? Just curious.

Because I enjoyed my job the rest of the time. It was just that one night each week that I started hating. I even tried to give the night up, told her I didn't want them anymore. My boss wouldn't let me give them up. She said she didn't have anyone else with enough training/experience to take them.

I suppose I could have quit, and found another job. But I really did enjoy working there, most of the time.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Still awaiting the statute from the state that says that the restaurant can legally require this.

And why it is only for larger groups? I'm sure other patrons didn't leave an 18% tip, and noone got arrested.

Sounds like discrimination.

Restaurant industry in the U.S. as a whole has determined that, generally, large parties undertip. Everybody thinks somebody else got the tip, or when they split the bill either people undercalculate the tip or just don't take it into account, etc. Mandatory service charge listed on each - or even just one - menu page, with its conditions, is designed to avoid this problem.

Just as when one orders a $7 appetizer or a $16 entree or a $2 soda or a market-price lobster, one expects to have pay the amount listed on the menu or quoted by the server, parties consisting of the indicated number of diners or more should reasonably expect to have to pay the posted percentage as the service charge.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Have you ever read where the bill says "For YOUR CONVENIENCE" the bill reflects an 18% gratuity charge"?

BTW, I have been in MANY a restaurant, where they list a gratuity charge but also inform you that you are not obligated to pay it if you are unhappy with the service. They state it right on the bill, and request that you speak to a manager in this instance.

But in this case - at all restaurants with similar policies - and without even seeing the menu, THIS 18% service charge for large parties is printed on the menu. The diners see it before they order; by being part of a large party and ordering from the menu, the diners agree to the service charge.

 

[shrubber]

So if a restaurant prints on its menu that
Parties of 8 or more will have a mandatory apple pie added to their bill

Then I gotta eat it right?