Costa Concordia Runs Aground / Deaths Reported

[MCourtney]

\ A Cat 1 with sustained winds for 24 hours equals the damage of a Cat 4. We were not able to leave due to the storm continuing for so long, and wou

After moving to Tampa have gone thru Charley, Frances, Josephine, Ivan, Jeanne. I get it. Believe me. Ever been to DW when they issue a hurricane watch? Only Floridians there, and no lines. Had to leave the Contemporary because of Jeanne.

Enough of the hurricane debate. Back to Costa.

 

[MRAven]

I was just wandering if in a worst case scenario like this of the Costa Concordia emergency would one get different attention or compensation after the event wether if you have cruise insurance or not ?

I've always booked DCL with insurance but mostly for a personal medical situation or for a non-show situation but must confess I've never given the thought of capsizing ship situation. "

I don't remember reading a clause saying Ïf the ship sinks.......

 

[mellers]

I was just wandering if in a worst case scenario like this of the Costa Concordia emergency would one get different attention or compensation after the event wether if you have cruise insurance or not ?

I've always booked DCL with insurance but mostly for a personal medical situation or for a non-show situation but must confess I've never given the thought of capsizing ship situation. "

I don't remember reading a clause saying Ïf the ship sinks.......

As I recall, with my cruise insurance, there was an emergency provision regarding help replacing lost credit cards and passports, as well as emergency hotel rooms if you miss a connection, if you called a special number--I assume that would still be in effect if you were in a shipwreck.

 

[malacajo]

Wondering how long it'll take to find out exact reasons why this happened? Is it known to be fact that captain was to blame? I'm ashamed to say that I think I was "one of those" that assumed that in this day and age, with all of our technology, this would be almost impossible..Just so sad....

 

[SoCaOC-Mom]

Yes. By maritime law, every ship must carry 100% of its total occupancy on each side. The actual number maybe closer to 150%. I dont remembe off hand, but I do know its at least 100% on each side.

That's good to know, I remember when I first looked into take a cruise counting the life boats and factoring in how many passengers including crew that were on board; I didn't think it looked like enough then. I guess the size and capacity for those life boats are deceiving.

 

[stitchlovestink]

I'm seriously wondering if this Captain knows he was at fault in some way. One of the articles I was reading earlier was talking about him calling his mother and his brother (who was also a sailor) and telling his mother there had been a terrible tragedy and he probably wouldn't be able to talk to her for awhile. Makes me wonder if he knows that he made some serious mistakes??
And how on Earth could He leave the ship full well knowing there were still passengers on board??!!
He should be tried for that crime!!

 

[Seahunt]

An Australian who was onboard with her 12 year old has posted an account of what they went through over on cruisecritic under "Costa Concordia - I survived":

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1548951

Yikes.
Many prayers to all involved.

 

[clten]

From the discussion here about not wanting to take the time to bring the kids from the clubs to their life boat station or just wanting to get on the closest life boat, I'm not sure people understand that when the abandon ship signal is given, they don't start loading all the lifeboats immediately. They don't all get launched at the same time and there would be chaos if you could just pick a lifeboat -- everyone is going to want to be in the first one launched. If you listen to what they actually tell you at the lifeboat drill, they will tell you that assembling and taking attendance is not delaying you at all. During that time there are separate teams that are preparing the life boats to launch. Yes, you may have to walk from one end of the ship to the other, but the people who would be preparing the lifeboats have to walk/run from somewhere too.

And as far as not taking anything from the room, they do tell you to take your needed medication with you. So if your pills are in the safe and you grab your passport that's in there too, you aren't really going to cause jeopardy to yourself, your family or others. Searching the stateroom for them is a whole different story. But that is why I leave a photocopy of them at home. If I'm stuck overseas and my passport is lost, it makes it a little easier to get an emergency passport issued. (Lesson learned from experience.)

As far as DCL and their safety standards, I have to say, one of the things I like to see when we are on a DCL cruise, is the practice we often watch of the crew and the lifeboats at different ports of call. We have watched a lot of different drills. In fact on the Magic about a month or so ago, watched them practicing manuevering the lifeboat to practice retreiving a man overboard. Don't recall other cruiselines where we have seen as many drills as DCL does in port.

PS the captain calling his mother, he may just be aware of Italian law that says they can be detained for several days just for inquiry. He is being held, they haven't determined if he is going to be arrested yet. Not defending him but don't want to rush to judge him either.

 

[Onkel Hans]

Wondering how long it'll take to find out exact reasons why this happened? Is it known to be fact that captain was to blame? I'm ashamed to say that I think I was "one of those" that assumed that in this day and age, with all of our technology, this would be almost impossible..Just so sad....

I think it will be quite a while before all the facts are known. I do not take the fact that the Captain has been arrested as any indication that there was malfeasance--not all courts of law assume that someone is innocent until proven guilty, and it is possible that in Italy the captain could be held just for being involved with the shipwreck.

There is a lot of contradictory information about, and I don't think that things will become clearer any time soon, especially to those of us making sense of it from across the globe with third hand information.

 

[Seahunt]

Also from cruisecritic, this shows a replay of the Costa ship's movements from the AIS (Automated Identification System) transponders onboard :

http://www.shipcruise.org/cruise-articles/435-costa-concordia-accident

Is the boat in front the Pilot boat? Then look around :13 when the Costa ship starts the left turn - and after with all the boats going to help after the collision.

Edited to add: watching again that was apparently not the Pilot, or if it was he just continued on.

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

I was just wandering if in a worst case scenario like this of the Costa Concordia emergency would one get different attention or compensation after the event wether if you have cruise insurance or not ?

I've always booked DCL with insurance but mostly for a personal medical situation or for a non-show situation but must confess I've never given the thought of capsizing ship situation. "

I don't remember reading a clause saying Ïf the ship sinks.......

I would like to think Costa will do something special for these passengers. What, I can't imagine but I think technically from an insurance perspective, this would fall under trip interruption. I'm no insurance expert by any means so this is just a guess. This is the coverage that kicks in if say you become sick mid cruise and are quarrentined to your cabin or if you disembark in FL but there's a foot of snow back home & your flights get canceled & you need to quickly book a hotel, get laundry done, etc. til you can fly home.

 

[Onkel Hans]

Chart of area
It is unclear to this landlubber what they could have struck.

 

[remorse]

Yes. By maritime law, every ship must carry 100% of its total occupancy on each side. The actual number maybe closer to 150%. I dont remembe off hand, but I do know its at least 100% on each side.

With respect I believe that while this is correct for cargo ships the requirements are not the same for passenger ships simply because it is considered impractical to provide enough boats on board for 8000+ people. I'm afraid that I do not have my copy of SOLAS with me so I cannot quote chapter and verse but I am pretty certain that the requirements for passenger ships are as follows:

1. Lifeboats sufficient to carry a minimum of 37.5% of the ships capacity on each side (so 75% in total - considering the normal ratio of 1 crew member per 2 or 3 passengers this should be enough for all passengers to have a space in a lifeboat).
2. Liferafts to make this capacity up to 100% split equally on each side.
3. Liferafts to carry an ADDITIONAL 25% of the ships capacity split equally on each side.

However, considering the reason for the cargo ship rules is to make sure you can always get everyone off in the lifeboats no matter the angle of list there are additional requirements for passenger ships to try to ensure that such an angle of list never develops. Modern passenger ships are required to have "cross-flooding ducts" so that if a watertight compartment on one side of the ship is flooded the equivalent compartment on the opposite side will also be flooded to ensure that the ship sinks on an even keel, so allowing lifeboats on both sides to be used.

Further, if such an angle of list is experienced lifeboats and davits on passenger ships are required to be able to launch at an angle of list of up to 20 degrees - in either direction.

Unfortunately it appears to me in this situation that the ship was essentially sitting on the rock at the end (even if a significant portion was still underwater I do not believe that she can really be said to have been afloat) and at this point if the land she is sitting on is sloping in one direction or the other the vessel is likely to seriously list and even fall over as in this case.

 

[StephenKay]

Hi there,

Having looked at this accident it looks as if the liner was lucky that the loss of life could be a lot worse and any loss is a terrible tragic loss. A recent poster has shown the AIS tracker system video which shows the liner going off course by either losing the steering gear or delibrately heading to shallower waters having first hit the rock and embodied this into it's hull below the waterline. This ship was docked next to the Magic at Palermo and Cititavechia during our June 11 Med Cruise, and I can vouch that see is a large vessel and to think of lying on it's side makes you wonder. Hopefully all passengers and crew will soon safely be accounted for. Fingers crossed.

Can't think Disney will announce any Med in the next week or so.

 

[Onkel Hans]

With respect I believe that while this is correct for cargo ships the requirements are not the same for passenger ships simply because it is considered impractical to provide enough boats on board for 8000+ people. I'm afraid that I do not have my copy of SOLAS with me so I cannot quote chapter and verse but I am pretty certain that the requirements for passenger ships are as follows:

1. Lifeboats sufficient to carry a minimum of 37.5% of the ships capacity on each side (so 75% in total - considering the normal ratio of 1 crew member per 2 or 3 passengers this should be enough for all passengers to have a space in a lifeboat).
2. Liferafts to make this capacity up to 100% split equally on each side.
3. Liferafts to carry an ADDITIONAL 25% of the ships capacity split equally on each side.

However, considering the reason for the cargo ship rules is to make sure you can always get everyone off in the lifeboats no matter the angle of list there are additional requirements for passenger ships to try to ensure that such an angle of list never develops. Modern passenger ships are required to have "cross-flooding ducts" so that if a watertight compartment on one side of the ship is flooded the equivalent compartment on the opposite side will also be flooded to ensure that the ship sinks on an even keel, so allowing lifeboats on both sides to be used.

Further, if such an angle of list is experienced lifeboats and davits on passenger ships are required to be able to launch at an angle of list of up to 20 degrees - in either direction.

Unfortunately it appears to me in this situation that the ship was essentially sitting on the rock at the end (even if a significant portion was still underwater I do not believe that she can really be said to have been afloat) and at this point if the land she is sitting on is sloping in one direction or the other the vessel is likely to seriously list and even fall over as in this case.

Your recollection is spot on, according to http://www.captainsvoyage-forum.com...requirement-of-lifeboats-on-passenger-vessels

If my calculations are correct, Disney Cruise Line exceeds the minimum requirements. There are 20 lifeboats, and I have read in several places that their capacity are 150 pax, giving a total of 3000 spots in the boats. Passengers and crew are about 3450 (2400+950) so most would have a space on the boats rather than the rafts.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Some reports say she hit a sandbar but looking at the hull damage that's quite a large puncture. What do you think Skipper?

Hi Insureman,

I was away most of yesterday..........but that is no sandbar damage. There are some sandbars in the Med, but that is a hard hit and along to lower side and likely from hitting rocks...130' long and did internal damage to double bottom tanks and inner compartments.

AKK

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

I'm seriously wondering if this Captain knows he was at fault in some way. One of the articles I was reading earlier was talking about him calling his mother and his brother (who was also a sailor) and telling his mother there had been a terrible tragedy and he probably wouldn't be able to talk to her for awhile. Makes me wonder if he knows that he made some serious mistakes??
And how on Earth could He leave the ship full well knowing there were still passengers on board??!!
He should be tried for that crime!!

Please folks..........this is not the time to beleive any reports about how/why this happened. If the Captian left the ship early or not or who was at fault.....If the world today the news is more interested in be sensational that be true.

It will take time to find out the truth.


AKK

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

With respect I believe that while this is correct for cargo ships the requirements are not the same for passenger ships simply because it is considered impractical to provide enough boats on board for 8000+ people. I'm afraid that I do not have my copy of SOLAS with me so I cannot quote chapter and verse but I am pretty certain that the requirements for passenger ships are as follows:

1. Lifeboats sufficient to carry a minimum of 37.5% of the ships capacity on each side (so 75% in total - considering the normal ratio of 1 crew member per 2 or 3 passengers this should be enough for all passengers to have a space in a lifeboat).
2. Liferafts to make this capacity up to 100% split equally on each side.
3. Liferafts to carry an ADDITIONAL 25% of the ships capacity split equally on each side.

However, considering the reason for the cargo ship rules is to make sure you can always get everyone off in the lifeboats no matter the angle of list there are additional requirements for passenger ships to try to ensure that such an angle of list never develops. Modern passenger ships are required to have "cross-flooding ducts" so that if a watertight compartment on one side of the ship is flooded the equivalent compartment on the opposite side will also be flooded to ensure that the ship sinks on an even keel, so allowing lifeboats on both sides to be used.

Further, if such an angle of list is experienced lifeboats and davits on passenger ships are required to be able to launch at an angle of list of up to 20 degrees - in either direction.

Unfortunately it appears to me in this situation that the ship was essentially sitting on the rock at the end (even if a significant portion was still underwater I do not believe that she can really be said to have been afloat) and at this point if the land she is sitting on is sloping in one direction or the other the vessel is likely to seriously list and even fall over as in this case.

Well posted Remorse

It has been along time since I studied the regs on lifeboat capacities and they change. I believe you are correct in the above listed 1, 2 and 3. All major lines will easily cover the regulation reqiurements with a healthy over the top%.

Some double/ballast tanks are fitted with port ot stbd/athwartship flooding to help keep the vessel up right with a minmium list to assit launching lifeboats. ( This is one reason the Andrea Doria sank is that the valave on her 50 years ago would not open or could not be opened and she flooded her port side.)


Looking at the photoes available now.......she is definitely hard on the bottom.

We will not know what happened (why and how) for awhile......there are alot of possibilities.

AKK

 

[truck1]

With respect I believe that while this is correct for cargo ships the requirements are not the same for passenger ships simply because it is considered impractical to provide enough boats on board for 8000+ people. I'm afraid that I do not have my copy of SOLAS with me so I cannot quote chapter and verse but I am pretty certain that the requirements for passenger ships are as follows:

1. Lifeboats sufficient to carry a minimum of 37.5% of the ships capacity on each side (so 75% in total - considering the normal ratio of 1 crew member per 2 or 3 passengers this should be enough for all passengers to have a space in a lifeboat).
2. Liferafts to make this capacity up to 100% split equally on each side.
3. Liferafts to carry an ADDITIONAL 25% of the ships capacity split equally on each side.

However, considering the reason for the cargo ship rules is to make sure you can always get everyone off in the lifeboats no matter the angle of list there are additional requirements for passenger ships to try to ensure that such an angle of list never develops. Modern passenger ships are required to have "cross-flooding ducts" so that if a watertight compartment on one side of the ship is flooded the equivalent compartment on the opposite side will also be flooded to ensure that the ship sinks on an even keel, so allowing lifeboats on both sides to be used.

Further, if such an angle of list is experienced lifeboats and davits on passenger ships are required to be able to launch at an angle of list of up to 20 degrees - in either direction.

Unfortunately it appears to me in this situation that the ship was essentially sitting on the rock at the end (even if a significant portion was still underwater I do not believe that she can really be said to have been afloat) and at this point if the land she is sitting on is sloping in one direction or the other the vessel is likely to seriously list and even fall over as in this case.

Its not just the yellow life boats but the white cannister life rafts thats included in the seat count. Thats where the additional comes in. Its one of those provisions that came about after the Andera Doria.

 

[MRAven]

As I recall, with my cruise insurance, there was an emergency provision regarding help replacing lost credit cards and passports, as well as emergency hotel rooms if you miss a connection, if you called a special number--I assume that would still be in effect if you were in a shipwreck.

Yes those are the main reasosn among others why I get the insurance, but under a shipwreck situation it's totally different expectations.

I would like to think Costa will do something special for these passengers. What, I can't imagine but I think technically from an insurance perspective, this would fall under trip interruption. I'm no insurance expert by any means so this is just a guess. This is the coverage that kicks in if say you become sick mid cruise and are quarrentined to your cabin or if you disembark in FL but there's a foot of snow back home & your flights get canceled & you need to quickly book a hotel, get laundry done, etc. til you can fly home.

Yes, Trip interruption I remember readding. I'm defenatly going to pay better attention to the fine print in the future. It's good that one receives the insurance booklet plenty o time before the cruise.