Copyright infrigement...Now what do I do? Little bit of an update.

[jann1033]

so even if you gave them a cd and had the conversation about the credit,you would still assume that wasn't giving permission to print them? not saying it is but it would seem to me that would have been the implication.....it seems odd to me that they wouldn't have had you sign something about what you would receive but i'll tell you what an attorney told us..."a contract is only as good as the 2 parties it's between",,,if someone doesn't want to pay up with a contract you can't really force them( small claims only says they have to pay and unless it's a big enough amount you pay more in fees to pursue it, been there, not doing that again ) so i think you'd be up a creek without a contract. meanwhile, i might head to the library and see if they have a barberton phone book

 

[SharonLowe]

I respectfully disagree with this, you can hand cds of pics to anyone you want, that doesn't grant them the rights to print/publish, or profit from those photos..


photographers often give discs{digital proofs} to people so they can choose the shots they want to buy, or get the rights to..

Any disc I hand out comes with my copyright notice and very detailed information stating they are not allowed to print, etc. I also use computer printable CDs/DVDs so my copyright is on the disc itself in case someone tries to take it to Walmart. Also, the proofs are low enough resolution that they would not make good prints. Finally, all my clients sign a contract so we both know what we can and cannot do with the photos.

On the other hand, she was asked to provide her photos for publishing and she did, in whatever form. That to me counts as giving permission.

 

[SharonLowe]

Sharon,

At work we have a "shared file" on our computer server, so others can view reports, documents, photos, etc. These photos were taken with my own equipment, on my own time and I posted them there for other city employees to enjoy. Could AT & T argue that, because they were posted publicly, they were availlable for their own personal use? I don't know what they will try to say.

TC

No, but you gave them the photos to use and you spoke to them. That is where they can say you authorized them to use them. And unfortunately, you did not get anything in writing so it is your word against theirs. A judge might rule on your side because he/she could feel AT&T took advantage of you, but without a contract, the opinion could go the other way.

 

[MICKEY88]

Any disc I hand out comes with my copyright notice and very detailed information stating they are not allowed to print, etc. I also use computer printable CDs/DVDs so my copyright is on the disc itself in case someone tries to take it to Walmart. Also, the proofs are low enough resolution that they would not make good prints. Finally, all my clients sign a contract so we both know what we can and cannot do with the photos.

On the other hand, she was asked to provide her photos for publishing and she did, in whatever form. That to me counts as giving permission.

all good measures, however anyone with half a clue would upload to walmart rather than taking the disk into the store...


after rereading the reply from ATT, I think the OP has a good case, they acknowledge giving photo credits in other cases, that shows that they are clearly aware of what should have been done, and rather than asking for the info, they went ahead with publishing, any judge worth his or her gavel would rule against the corporate monster..
they admit making a mistake, therefore they should pay for it..

 

[SharonLowe]

all good measures, however anyone with half a clue would upload to walmart rather than taking the disk into the store...

I forgot to add, all my proofs are watermarked too so no luck in uploading either.

 

[MICKEY88]

I forgot to add, all my proofs are watermarked too so no luck in uploading either.

 

[Tuffcookie]

Sharon, Thanks for all your input. I really do appreciate it. Sometimes I will post things here and then others will share their experiences/knowledge...things a layperson, such as myself, would not even think about.
I will give A T & T a week to respond to my last e-mail. I know a lawyer that will send a "friendly" letter to them asking for payment.
Now, all I have to do is get actual names and addresses of who to send my letter(s) to. Being it's the phone company and it's so easy to talk to a real person there , that should be a trip!

TC

 

[MICKEY88]

Sharon, Thanks for all your input. I really do appreciate it. Sometimes I will post things here and then others will share their experiences/knowledge...things a layperson, such as myself, would not even think about.
I will give A T & T a week to respond to my last e-mail. I know a lawyer that will send a "friendly" letter to them asking for payment.
Now, all I have to do is get actual names and addresses of who to send my letter(s) to. Being it's the phone company and it's so easy to talk to a real person there , that should be a trip!

TC

one question who is ***** that the ATT person references, if she gave them the disk for you and told them they could use them, pushing the issue could jeopardize her job if she is the one that messed up

 

[jann1033]

i looked at my lake/geauga at&t book and no place is there any acknowledgment as to who took the cover photo and i do not think it's a stock photo as it is a local park and doesn't look like it's a pro photo, same with another local shot, local book,...so not sure that is "routinely" done by at&t or some other places...windstream on the other hand has a local photo with acknowledgment in side the front cover

 

[MICKEY88]

i looked at my lake/geauga at&t book and no place is there any acknowledgment as to who took the cover photo and i do not think it's a stock photo as it is a local park and doesn't look like it's a pro photo, same with another local shot, local book,...so not sure that is "routinely" done by at&t or some other places...windstream on the other hand has a local photo with acknowledgment in side the front cover

it may be a regional thing. or in some cases they may just get pics from employees that are happy to have their pics published and don't request recognition,

however...

in this case the ATT person mentioned giving photo credit in another case, so they were aware of such a thing..

If you would choose to submit photos for the next issue (January 09), I would be happy to put a photo credit on the cover photo itself as we did on the Akron directory.

 

[MICKEY88]

Sharon, Thanks for all your input. I really do appreciate it. Sometimes I will post things here and then others will share their experiences/knowledge...things a layperson, such as myself, would not even think about.
I will give A T & T a week to respond to my last e-mail. I know a lawyer that will send a "friendly" letter to them asking for payment.
Now, all I have to do is get actual names and addresses of who to send my letter(s) to. Being it's the phone company and it's so easy to talk to a real person there , that should be a trip!

TC

in addition to all the great advice from Sharon, I would ad another thought, in the future in addition to getting a contract, be specific with a contract, such as granting one time usage rights... as opposed to just giving them the right to use the pics.... that way they can only use them for one year, if they want to use them in another year they would have to pay again...

I would watermark my pics with the credit I want and tell them the pics must be published with that on them..

 

[Tuffcookie]

I checked with our law dept and human resource dept today and there is no policy on shared files thru the cities' computer server.

The lady at our city building that told AT & T they could use them, told me, in her e-mail, that she told AT & T I wanted an acknowledged for the pictures. I believe her and she is such a valuable and well-liked employee she would not lose her job over this. However, the Regional Marketing Manager, IMHO, should have gotten written permission.

TC

 

[steery1]

Tuffcookie, hope you get sorted out with your payment for your work.
Any chance of a link to where I can view these pics?

 

[Tuffcookie]

steery1, I bumped my original thread to the first page of photography board for you.

TC

 

[steery1]

Thanks Tuffcookie.

I see why they wanted them and well worth at least the $500.

 

[Tuffcookie]

Thanks!

 

[jann1033]

it may be a regional thing....

that was the point i was trying to make barberton isn't that far away from me so it could be the acknowledgment isn't common with them here, and why no one would have caught nothing was signed etc...weird way to do business but....

 

[MICKEY88]

that was the point i was trying to make barberton isn't that far away from me so it could be the acknowledgment isn't common with them here, and why no one would have caught nothing was signed etc...weird way to do business but....

you missed the other part of my post, the ATT person said they gave credit for another directory, so they are obviously familiar with the concept, why would they not ask rather than assuming no credit was due..

 

[Tuffcookie]

No word from the AT & T lady.

For what it's worth, I have put together a very nice letter, stating the facts as they happened. I attached a copy of all the e-mails that transpired between myself, the City computer person, and the AT & T Regional Marketing Manager. I enclosed a copy of the new 2008 phone directory with my pictures on the cover and politely requested payment for the photos that were used. I will send these items out certified mail to AT & T's Executive Office in Indianapolis, IN (I did finally find an address) tomorrow and see what happens!

If I do not hear anything, I will take 10 deep cleansing breaths and let it go.
(After that I will cancel my AT & T phone service and sign up with Time/Warner cable! )

TC

 

[Tuffcookie]

bumping.