Considering putting my dog down...are we right?

[Poohbear123]

Second Opinion and Acupuncture! 4 is way to young to put down, my PW was paralized, had back surgery, and Acupuncture all at 6, and lived to be 16.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

In searching for some info for you, it seems pretty clear that seizures in dogs are often very tricky to manage, and that sometimes it takes a while to find the right combination of medications or therapeutic levels, just as happens in humans. I like Dr. Mike on www.vetinfo.com, this was part of an answer he gave to someone, to illustrate how tricky it can be.

A: Prudence- The combination of phenobarbital and potassium bromide is considered to be pretty effective by most of the neurologists I have corresponded with. It is important to adjust phenobarbital levels based on the blood levels of the medication rather than by the starting dosage guidelines. Some dogs need significantly higher dosages than the the recommended guidelines for starting therapy. It is also important to monitor both the peak and the trough dosages of phenobarbital (just after the pill and just before the next pill) in order to assess what is happening when the medication is not working well. If potassium bromide has already been started please remember to be patient about its effects. It produces an appearance of drunkenness that lasts a couple of weeks and it takes up to 25 days to achieve stable blood levels so you have to give it some time to work while putting up with its side effects. These usually go away once the dog adjusts. If phenobarbital and potassium bromide don't work well other choices include felbamate, clonazepam and clorazepate for seizure control (usually used in combination with phenobarbital or even with phenobarbital, potassium bromide and one of these choices). It is very difficult to figure out the prognosis in seizure disorders when the underlying cause can not be established. I wish I could help with that aspect of your question but it just doesn't seem possible to do so. The neurologists at Virginia Tech are very good, in my opinion. If there is a way to help I really think they will find it if you keep in contact with them and let them know how things are progressing -- which is also very important to do with your local vet, too! Seizures require a lot of teamwork and a good level of communication between the owner and the veterinarians treating the case when they are not easily controlled.

Mike Richards, DVM

In another response he said that often the drug levels need to be in a "high therapeutic" range, not just "therapeutic range" (e.g. if therapeutic range is 5-10, it should be more toward 10 than 5 to see the best results). It could be a simple as adjusting the medications a bit and giving them more time. I'd still consult a neurologist, but I wouldn't give up hope just yet.

A: It is disheartening when seizure medications don't work well. I can not tell from your letter if this has been done, but checking the blood level of the phenobarbital is often the most reliable way to determine if effective levels are being reached in the bloodstream. Some dogs do require more phenobarbital than the maximum recommended dosages in order to achieve sufficient blood levels. If the phenobarbital blood levels are not within the therapeutic range, increasing it is OK.

Seizures may not be controlled even if the phenobarbital level is in the range in which it normally would work. Potassium bromide (KBr) is the medication most commonly used to supplement the effect of phenobarbital in that case. When you first put your dog on the KBr you will see almost all the things that first happened with phenobarbital -- the "drunken" appearance, falling, running into things, etc. This can go on for about 3 weeks and then the dog adjusts to the dosage. It is an effective combination and once your dog adjusts it doesn't seem to depress overall personality traits much.

Mike Richards, DVM

 

[noseybuddy]

I would get a second opinion. Local Vets only know and can do so much. When my one dog got sick I spent $1000 dollar at the Vet and they still didn't know what was wrong with her. That was the BIG mistake I made. I took her to the HUP Vet Hospital where I should have gone from the very beginning and within a day they knew what was wrong with her. Maybe your vet is doing the right thing, but a second opinion can't hurt. Good luck!

 

[Rajah]

I would say, based on the dogs age, not just a second opinion. If the second traditional vet isn't able to find a solution, go for a *third* opinion but this time with a holistic vet. 99% of the time I prefer the standard vet, but every once in a while a holistic vet can do something the usual vets can't.

Keep us posted!

 

[Jennasis]

Was talking to Dh before. We are the same distance from NC State and VA Tech. After we get the blood work donw Monday, it looks like we'll have a two hour drive ahead of us to the university hospital. Want to be armed with as much info as possible. We've had all her seizures documented (when they occurred and how long they lasted, how severe they were and how long it took to regain "normalcy".) My vet was the one who suggested going to NC State for further testing. She isn't a "podunk" vet, but she knows her own limits.

Keep your fingers crossed, Pixie Dust too!

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Excellent! Make sure you bring the dosages of the drugs she's on, and be able to list any past medical history. You may want to check and see if she still needs blood drawn locally, perhaps they didn't realize you were going elsewhere when they scheduled that. Chances are good the specialist will want to draw some, too. Good luck tomorrow.

 

[kmp1191]

Lots of Pixie Dust coming your way!!
hang in there....

 

[Magickndm]

Is your vet Greyhound savvy? They really are a different breed and sometimes conventional meds react differently to their systems.
If you've never read there, please post your problem on www.greytalk.com
You'll be amazed at all the other greys there who also have epilepsy. I'm sure someone there can give great advice too.
Best of luck.

 

[2Xited4Disney]

 

[Jennasis]

Is your vet Greyhound savvy? They really are a different breed and sometimes conventional meds react differently to their systems.
If you've never read there, please post your problem on www.greytalk.com
You'll be amazed at all the other greys there who also have epilepsy. I'm sure someone there can give great advice too.
Best of luck.

Always nice to see another grey lover! One of our biggest concerns with our two greyhounds is making sure we have a vet who is familiar with the breed as they are very different when it comes to things like tranquilizer, flea and tick meds, dewormer etc..

Our first grey (who is turning 8 this year) came from a group on Long Island (terrific organization!) We did tons of research before we got her (got the "dummies" book, read everything online we could find) and found a terrific vet. Then down here in NC we were worried about finding a new vet...our current small animal vet has her office/clinic about 30 seconds from my front door at the end of our block. It also turned out that she had done lots of work with a local greyhound rescue group with a kennel about 5 miles from our house! That's where we got our second grey (Kimya) from.

I am also going to mention this whole scenario to my Large animal vet (the one who serves my horses). She's coming out tomorrow morning for spring vaccines. I will pick her brain a bit and see if she has any thoughts.

FYI, Kimya was bright eyed and bushy tailed (well..."whip-tailed", as all greys are) today. The thought of putting her to sleep makes me absolutely sick to my stomache. She is FINE, aside from these (now) violent seizures 2-3 times a month.


Think happy thoughts...think happy thoughts.....

 

[LittleRydia]

many hugs to you and your family. for sadly i lost my dog baby to seizures.

she inherited hers from her grandfather (we found out they skip a generation) which was oblistic seizures? (spell cheak) were they occured once every other week for a few months. stoped for a couple of weeks and then came back. she had her first seizure when she was just a little over a year old. for 2 and half years we fought with them. but then she the seizures got worst, at least 3 times a week. till it caused her to have a stroke, she went paralized the wasit back and lost use of her bladder etc. we waited for days to see if she could go the bathroom. for i had built her a cart.. so she could move around. but no, after a few days no matter what we did she would not go. its been almost 3 years.. and to this day i still cry missing her.
sorry as i am now, we could not afford then to take her to a vet. no we did not get any help and i wish i could of done something. now having a job i can take care of my animals better. so very good of you to try and help your loved one, i really hope they find out something for you.

my only adive is.. if they get worst, or more often to seek help asap. also what happens? im not sure if all seizures happen the same way i did some research on mine on the computer before and found it was not curable and nothing could actully stop hers. I just pray you dont go through what i did.

 

[Belle0101]

Your post affects me in so many ways. My heart is with greys. We lost Italy a couple years back and I still get upset around the time she passed. We also had a whippet, Miranda, that lived to be just shy of 17 years old.

Anyhow, like the other posters, I agree with a second opinion. If nothing else, you will have peace of mind in knowing that you did all you could and you can't put a price on that.

I also agree not to be impressed with the big fancy offices. Miranda (twice) and Italy (once) had each been told that all that could be done for them had been done for them. My girls proved them wrong because they didn't die from what was supposed to have been death sentences.

to your family and Kimya

 

[Jennasis]

Well, normally her seizures include her lying on the floor, convulcing (trembling all over) paddling her feet, and drooling/foaming. She often urinates during and episode. We usually leave her alone for them because when she had her first one ever I tried to restrain her and she snapped at me. My first dog (a Dalmatian) had seizures that made him fling himself around but he would always let me hold him down without a problem. The seizures last anywhere from 30 seconds on a "good night", to 5 minutes when she first started having them (before we medicated).

LAst night she had a 30 second mini-seizure, followed by a 1 minute long regular seizure, then immediately went into the violent flinging about the room thing.

Our appointment is in an hour with the vet for blood work. I also got the name of another vet practice in greensboro (about 45 min away) that does all the work for the greyhound resuce group there. They sound like a very progressive clinic, so we may try them before carting ourselves off to the university vet hospital.

 

[Chicago526]

Has your vet ruled out food alergies? My friend had a dog that had seizures, turns out he was allergic to his food. They switched brands and he was fine.

My dog Missy has seizures, but only about twice a year. The vet just found that her thyroid output is low (hypo-thyroidism) and she said that low thyroid can also trigger seizures. I'd get a second opinion if possible before making any decision.

Good luck!

 

[Jennasis]

HAd Kimya to the vet with Dh this morning. Not thrilled about a few things but we'll know more when the bloo results come back in a day or two. I made DH request a thyroid panel. Vet didn't think it was necessary as a thyroid dysfunction was "unlikely", but she did it anyway. Let's be aggressive in our search here lady! Let's rule it all out before we chalk it up to in inoperable brain tumor!

We bumped her phenobarbitol up to an additional 1/2 pill twice a day so now she gets 150mg twice a day. The Potassium stays the same at 5.2 ml. Fingers crossed!

PS...an MRI at the state university hospital (NC State) is $1100 according to the vet.

 

[noseybuddy]

HAd Kimya to the vet with Dh this morning. Not thrilled about a few things but we'll know more when the bloo results come back in a day or two. I made DH request a thyroid panel. Vet didn't think it was necessary as a thyroid dysfunction was "unlikely", but she did it anyway. Let's be aggressive in our search here lady! Let's rule it all out before we chalk it up to in inoperable brain tumor!

We bumped her phenobarbitol up to an additional 1/2 pill twice a day so now she gets 150mg twice a day. The Potassium stays the same at 5.2 ml. Fingers crossed!

PS...an MRI at the state university hospital (NC State) is $1100 according to the vet.

The University Hospitals can be expensive. The one I went to had a fee for just walking through the door. I spent $3000 there and had already spent $1000 at the vet. But the money I spent at the Hospital was worth every penny. From the minute my dog was there they immediately went to work on her and she got the best care. Sending more pixie dust your way.

 

[Disney-Kim]

I also had a fur-baby that suffered from seizures. I am glad you are getting the blood work done, and the phenobarb is being up'd. I would really increase those phenobarb levels and the potassium too...until you can lower the occurence of the seizures.
our vet kept up'ing the amts until we were seizure free, but then my baby was "stoned" and loopy...so we gradually lowered the amts. But we did control the seizures to a point where he was seziure free and not stoned/loopy.

We were able to take our dog off the phenobarb and go purely with potassium but his seizures were not as bad as your baby's.
remember to get his liver enzyme levels checked after 6 mos. Phenobarb causes liver damage, as I am sure your vet told you.
The potassium doesn't cause the liver damage and is a better alternative, but may not work for your doggie.
My baby did die of liver cancer...but his quality of life was seizure free for 7 yrs and he lived to be 12.
Good luck !!!

ps...I would be hestiant on spending $1000's on fancy tests. We considered all those tests too...when the liver cancer came...but they would only confirm the cancer. there was no curing it. so....we didn't do them...and did everything else possible to keep him healthy and happy. We were given 3-4 mos at our prognosis...but he was around for 9 more months.
I am just saying that the tests may only confirm the worst and there may be nothing you can do....my dog is my baby...so please know that I completely understand where you are right now.