Confused
- Thread starter denman007
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RobDoc
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You might start by reading our <a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dvc/faq.shtml">DVCFAQ</a>, which will answer many of your questions and possibly raise others.
Basically, the initial purchase is a one time event. Thereafter, by paying an annual maintenance fee, the number of points purchased is renewed each year to be used for DVC reservations.
Once you've reviewed the information above, please feel free to ask more questions right here.
If you haven't already done so, call 1-800-800-9100 and request the free DVC video and information packet.
Enjoy!
Basically, the initial purchase is a one time event. Thereafter, by paying an annual maintenance fee, the number of points purchased is renewed each year to be used for DVC reservations.
Once you've reviewed the information above, please feel free to ask more questions right here.
If you haven't already done so, call 1-800-800-9100 and request the free DVC video and information packet.
Enjoy!
Your total cost of buying 150 points, over a long period of time, might work out to say $1,500 per year (depending on how you finance your purchase, how much interest you could have earned on the money you spent on DVC, your tax bracket, how much maintenance fees change, etc.). EVERY YEAR (until 2042) you will then get 150 new points to use...about 10 nights in a studio room lets say. So, over that long period of time, you could stay in a room on Disney property which is comparable to a "Deluxe" hotel room at Disney....for an average cost of about $150/night (and no hotel taxes). While that's a pretty good deal now, it will no doubt be an even better deal in 10 years.
You get this "deal" by agreeing to spend that $1,500 per year....and if you aren't going to Disney in a particular year, you could bank your points for use the following year or "rent" them to others (e.g. family, other members, whomever).
(Don't cheat, though. Check out the FAQ.)
You get this "deal" by agreeing to spend that $1,500 per year....and if you aren't going to Disney in a particular year, you could bank your points for use the following year or "rent" them to others (e.g. family, other members, whomever).
(Don't cheat, though. Check out the FAQ.)
The BC calculated to 190 points for a 7 night stay in Sept.
It would seem not to matter if the point values stay the same if the maint fees could keep going up.
Are UPH passes included in these stays at Disney?
I think I'll pass for now. I would need to see the video to better explain things.
It would seem not to matter if the point values stay the same if the maint fees could keep going up.
Are UPH passes included in these stays at Disney?
I think I'll pass for now. I would need to see the video to better explain things.
Firefighter Mickey
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2000
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- 970
Maintenance fees generally do go up each year, though the last few years they actually went down slightly at a few of the DVC resorts. However, when you compare the increase in maintenance fees against the increase that general hotel rooms have seen, I'll stick with the maintenance fees.
Passes are no longer included. Park passes were originally provided as a sales incentive when DVC first started out, but no longer. You can get a 10% discount on the length of stay pass though.
Passes are no longer included. Park passes were originally provided as a sales incentive when DVC first started out, but no longer. You can get a 10% discount on the length of stay pass though.
Yes. Main. fees will keep going up. Over the last 10 years they appear to go up at about the rate of inflation. So in 2002 you might pay around $550 in such fees. Maybe increases $15 or so a year. That means in 10 years you'll be paying $700-$800 to get your 150 points. A STUDIO might average 15 points per night....so in 10 years your cost would be about $75/night for a "Deluxe" quality room. These go for $200-$300 today.
Assuming you pay upfront (and don't take out a loan), you would pay $11,250 in year one (actually, $10,500 with the incentive currently in effect). Then just the maintenance fees. $550 this year...$650 in say 5 years....etc. Over say 20 years that is similar to paying say $1,500/year every year (rounding just for a clear example). In other words, $11,050 in year one ($10,500 one-time purchase and main. fees), $565 in year 2, $580 in year 3, etc. is similar to $1,500 in year 1, $1,500 in year 2, $1,500 in year 3, etc. when you compare it over a long period of time.
You mention "190 points for a week at BC". I assume you are talking about a 1 Bedroom. This is a 700+ square foot 1 bedroom suite with a full kitchen, washer & dryer, living room. Not even comparable to a regular hotel room. It's cost is like $500+/night if you're paying cash.
So maybe your 150 points gets you 5 nights in such a room for your $1,500 per year. Averages out to about $300/night for this room. That's like paying $270 + 11% tax on a "regular" hotel room at the Beach Club. Which is 300-something square feet. 15 years from now, $300 for a 700 square foot suite steps from Epcot will be an even better deal.
One more way to look at it....
Purchase price of 150 points: $10,500
20 years of main. fees: $15,200 (assumes 3% inflation in dues per year...$565 in year 1, $992 in year 20)
Total cost over 20 years: $10,500 + $15,200 = $25,700.
$25,700 / 20 years = $1,285/year.
For an average cost of $1,285 (ignoring the "cost of money"), you could get 10 nights in a room about the size of a regular hotel room or 5 nights in a 1 bedroom suite. An average cost per night of $128.50 for the "studio" and $257 per night for the one bedroom. Less than half of what you would average paying "cash". Much less than half would be my guess.
And in 2022 you would still own DVC, with the right to get your 150 points per year for just the maintenance fee. It's resale value would no doubt still be several thousand dollars. Maybe even over $10,000.
For all of this to "make sense" for you, you'd have to be willing to spend $250-$300/night for a 1 bedroom suite on Disney property (or $125-$150 for a studio), and you'd have to travel to Disney fairly frequently or go through the hassle of "renting" your points to others.
It's not for everyone, but for those who plan on going to Disney fairly regularly and are willing to pay the rates I mention, it is a good value.
Assuming you pay upfront (and don't take out a loan), you would pay $11,250 in year one (actually, $10,500 with the incentive currently in effect). Then just the maintenance fees. $550 this year...$650 in say 5 years....etc. Over say 20 years that is similar to paying say $1,500/year every year (rounding just for a clear example). In other words, $11,050 in year one ($10,500 one-time purchase and main. fees), $565 in year 2, $580 in year 3, etc. is similar to $1,500 in year 1, $1,500 in year 2, $1,500 in year 3, etc. when you compare it over a long period of time.
You mention "190 points for a week at BC". I assume you are talking about a 1 Bedroom. This is a 700+ square foot 1 bedroom suite with a full kitchen, washer & dryer, living room. Not even comparable to a regular hotel room. It's cost is like $500+/night if you're paying cash.
So maybe your 150 points gets you 5 nights in such a room for your $1,500 per year. Averages out to about $300/night for this room. That's like paying $270 + 11% tax on a "regular" hotel room at the Beach Club. Which is 300-something square feet. 15 years from now, $300 for a 700 square foot suite steps from Epcot will be an even better deal.
One more way to look at it....
Purchase price of 150 points: $10,500
20 years of main. fees: $15,200 (assumes 3% inflation in dues per year...$565 in year 1, $992 in year 20)
Total cost over 20 years: $10,500 + $15,200 = $25,700.
$25,700 / 20 years = $1,285/year.
For an average cost of $1,285 (ignoring the "cost of money"), you could get 10 nights in a room about the size of a regular hotel room or 5 nights in a 1 bedroom suite. An average cost per night of $128.50 for the "studio" and $257 per night for the one bedroom. Less than half of what you would average paying "cash". Much less than half would be my guess.
And in 2022 you would still own DVC, with the right to get your 150 points per year for just the maintenance fee. It's resale value would no doubt still be several thousand dollars. Maybe even over $10,000.
For all of this to "make sense" for you, you'd have to be willing to spend $250-$300/night for a 1 bedroom suite on Disney property (or $125-$150 for a studio), and you'd have to travel to Disney fairly frequently or go through the hassle of "renting" your points to others.
It's not for everyone, but for those who plan on going to Disney fairly regularly and are willing to pay the rates I mention, it is a good value.
Just to give you an idea of how the dues have gone up....
OKW has gone up 25% or $.65 per point since 1993. A lot of this increase took place in the early years of DVC. Over the last 5 years (since 1997), dues have increased 2% or $.07 per point. There's no guarantee that this level will be maintained but, on the other hand, there's no reason to not expect similar increases. Rooms at Disney have increased significantly more than 2% over the last 5 years.
A look at the rack rate prices for a studio at OKW comparing 1997 to 2002 shows an increase of 22% or $50 per night during regular season and a 47% or $115 per night increase for the Christmas Holiday Week.
/
JeffreyH
Thanks for the info! I do understand it now. If you compare DVC against rack rates, then yes it is a much better offer. However, no one ever pays rack rate anymore.
Here is a comparison of my May trip. Please tell me if I got something wrong.
DVC calculator for 8 nights at CBR = 231pts for a studio room
http://www.wdwinfo.com/resort/dvcpoint.cfm
(Boardwalk same time frame was only 133 pts)
My actual cost for 8 nights at CBR Water View room = $832
For someone in the DVC who goes quite often I would think they would be AP holders. Non DVC AP holders get a standard 30% off rack rates - all the time(as far as I know)
It looks like the DVC has a much better value when you stay in their resorts. Is that true?
Thanks for the info! I do understand it now. If you compare DVC against rack rates, then yes it is a much better offer. However, no one ever pays rack rate anymore.
Here is a comparison of my May trip. Please tell me if I got something wrong.
DVC calculator for 8 nights at CBR = 231pts for a studio room
http://www.wdwinfo.com/resort/dvcpoint.cfm
(Boardwalk same time frame was only 133 pts)
My actual cost for 8 nights at CBR Water View room = $832
For someone in the DVC who goes quite often I would think they would be AP holders. Non DVC AP holders get a standard 30% off rack rates - all the time(as far as I know)
It looks like the DVC has a much better value when you stay in their resorts. Is that true?
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Your example of using points to stay at a non-DVC WDW resort is like comparing apples to oranges, especially to a moderate resort like CBR. The value of points is in staying at DVC properties. If your main interest is staying at non-DVC resorts, then the program is probably not for you. If you have never stayed at a DVC resort, do so before you make a final decision.
You are right - DVC is not a good purchase if you stay in resorts not owned by the DVC. However, if you stay in the DVC resorts, it is a tremendous bargain. A room at the Poly is about the same cost in points as a 2 bedroom at the BW and there is no comparison between the two rooms. The 2 bedroom allows a large family to stay comfortably and you get a kitchen and laundry facilities to boot. I am very muh a worrier after I make a large purchase. In the case of the DVC, I have never, ever regretted it - on the contrary I often mention to my wife that it has been a wonderful purchase for our family. Since joining, I have even made two add-ons to my home resort.
But back to your origianl point - if you want to stay in the non-DVC resorts or if you (mistakenly) think that off-site is the same as on-site, then the DVC is not for you.
But back to your origianl point - if you want to stay in the non-DVC resorts or if you (mistakenly) think that off-site is the same as on-site, then the DVC is not for you.
Yes. Your points "go further" when you are staying at a DVC resort. A DVC owner could have "rented" 83 of their 2002 points for $10 each (getting $830) and used that money to stay at Caribbean Beach (that's what CBR is, right?) in May. I'm not too familiar with the resorts, but that is classified as a "Moderate" hotel, I believe. Boardwalk and the Beach Club, for instance, are classified as "Deluxe". I guess that is mainly due to location, and I believe I have heard that the rooms are a little bigger.
Anyway, you are right....you can stay "at Disney" cheaper than DVC. But your room will be a little smaller, and your distance from the parks is a little further. I don't know if this is true, but I would guess Beach Club was around $200 per night at that time. And keep in mind, we're comparing nightly rates during the biggest downturn in travel in over a decade.
You said your cost is $832 for 8 nights. Does this include the 11% tax? I'll assume it does. That means you're getting your room for $94 + tax per night, or $104/night. A great rate...no doubt cheaper than it was last year would be my guess. But what will it be in 5 years? 10? I think we have to assume it will increase slowly over time (as Pam's post points out). So...lets say you pay $104/night in 2002. In 2003 you pay $3 more per night. And for 20 years you go, paying 3% more each year. Your average cost over those 20 years would be $140 per night. For about that same average cost per night you could have joined DVC and stayed at the Beach Club or Boardwalk in a Studio room (slightly larger than a normal hotel room, has a small fridge, sink). And that price would be much less subject to spikes....awhile ago I saw that one Deluxe used to have a minimum rack rate of $29...now 30 years later or so it is like $249. While most people may not pay the rack rate, they pay some fairly consistent percentage of it (with today being on the low end).
As I mentioned before, I think the "average" cost per year over a long time period is ABOUT $1,500 per year for a 150 point purchase (depending on a lot of variables). That comes out to about $10/point used over the entire period. 8 days at a certain time at the Beach Club you said was 133 points. That means for an average cost of about $166 per night (133 points x $10 per point / 8 nights) you could stay in a Beach Club or Boardwalk studio. That's lower than the rate you can get today, and I'm REALLY confident that is lower than what the actual cash rate will be in 2012 or 2022 (not to mention 2032). That "locking in" the price over a long period of time is an advantage of joining DVC.
Anyway, you are right....you can stay "at Disney" cheaper than DVC. But your room will be a little smaller, and your distance from the parks is a little further. I don't know if this is true, but I would guess Beach Club was around $200 per night at that time. And keep in mind, we're comparing nightly rates during the biggest downturn in travel in over a decade.
You said your cost is $832 for 8 nights. Does this include the 11% tax? I'll assume it does. That means you're getting your room for $94 + tax per night, or $104/night. A great rate...no doubt cheaper than it was last year would be my guess. But what will it be in 5 years? 10? I think we have to assume it will increase slowly over time (as Pam's post points out). So...lets say you pay $104/night in 2002. In 2003 you pay $3 more per night. And for 20 years you go, paying 3% more each year. Your average cost over those 20 years would be $140 per night. For about that same average cost per night you could have joined DVC and stayed at the Beach Club or Boardwalk in a Studio room (slightly larger than a normal hotel room, has a small fridge, sink). And that price would be much less subject to spikes....awhile ago I saw that one Deluxe used to have a minimum rack rate of $29...now 30 years later or so it is like $249. While most people may not pay the rack rate, they pay some fairly consistent percentage of it (with today being on the low end).
As I mentioned before, I think the "average" cost per year over a long time period is ABOUT $1,500 per year for a 150 point purchase (depending on a lot of variables). That comes out to about $10/point used over the entire period. 8 days at a certain time at the Beach Club you said was 133 points. That means for an average cost of about $166 per night (133 points x $10 per point / 8 nights) you could stay in a Beach Club or Boardwalk studio. That's lower than the rate you can get today, and I'm REALLY confident that is lower than what the actual cash rate will be in 2012 or 2022 (not to mention 2032). That "locking in" the price over a long period of time is an advantage of joining DVC.
AP Holders don't get 30% off "all the time". In fact, they must play a waiting game to see when the discounts will be offered and then jump in to get the rooms. The last year or so have been highly unusual in the number and amount of discounts available. There is no expectation that these types of discounts will continue indefinetly. The rates will also continue to increase even when discounts are offered.
Using DVC to stay at CBR is not a good idea. The option is there so we don't feel "cut off" from our old favorite resorts but a premium is paid. However, DVC is an excellent way to take the cost of staying at a moderate and use it to stay in far more luxurious DVC resorts, either in studios or one-bedrooms at roughly the same cost.
The analogy I've used for myself is to a car -- A Honda Civic is a very nice car and will get you where you want to go. A Mercedes does the same thing in getting you from Point A to Point B but provides you with a lot more luxury. DVC is like buying the Mercedes.
Thanks guys!
I loved the BC and now that BCV is part of the network, I will have to check it out. The BW is an excellent location too.
I plan on visiting many of the Disney resorts this trip just to check them out.
I've only ever stayed at FW in '79, AS Sports in '00 and BC in '01.
The last 2 were for business and a wedding(not mine), so I can't say we really had a vacation in Disney resort. I really fell in love with the BC and the boardwalk area. ESPN was shooting baseball tonight, live and some of the guys were staying at the BC.
I loved the BC and now that BCV is part of the network, I will have to check it out. The BW is an excellent location too.
I plan on visiting many of the Disney resorts this trip just to check them out.
I've only ever stayed at FW in '79, AS Sports in '00 and BC in '01.
The last 2 were for business and a wedding(not mine), so I can't say we really had a vacation in Disney resort. I really fell in love with the BC and the boardwalk area. ESPN was shooting baseball tonight, live and some of the guys were staying at the BC.
Here's some other thoughts to consider Denman007.
Heres a simplistic look at things. Im not accounting for financing, differences if the money were invested instead of spent on DVC, etc., etc. I took the $75 per point cost and divided it by 40 to get the yearly cost of a point. (You also are aware that 150 points is the minimum purchase.) I then added the 2002 dues per point for BCV to get a rough idea of what a point costs an owner. This works out to $1.88 per point plus $3.77 for dues for a total of $5.65 per point in 2002.
I then took the dates Saturday, Sept. 14- Sunday, Sept. 21, 2002 to use for our stay. Heres a comparison of costs for DVC and for several resorts with both a Value Season rack rate and a 20% discount. I used the BWV pricing for BCV as it is not yet available on the WDW site.
Rack Rate 20% Discount
BCV Water View Room $2,602.95 $2,082.36
BCV Studio $2,245.43 $1,796.42
BCV 1 Bedroom $2,991.45 $2,393.16
CBR WaterView $1,149.46 $919.97
DVC Cost to Member
Points $ Cost Per Night
BCV Studio 104 $587.08 $83.87
BCV 1 Bedroom 200 $1,129.00 $161.29
If you eliminate the higher point cost Friday and Saturday night stays, you could bring your costs down even further.
Heres a simplistic look at things. Im not accounting for financing, differences if the money were invested instead of spent on DVC, etc., etc. I took the $75 per point cost and divided it by 40 to get the yearly cost of a point. (You also are aware that 150 points is the minimum purchase.) I then added the 2002 dues per point for BCV to get a rough idea of what a point costs an owner. This works out to $1.88 per point plus $3.77 for dues for a total of $5.65 per point in 2002.
I then took the dates Saturday, Sept. 14- Sunday, Sept. 21, 2002 to use for our stay. Heres a comparison of costs for DVC and for several resorts with both a Value Season rack rate and a 20% discount. I used the BWV pricing for BCV as it is not yet available on the WDW site.
Rack Rate 20% Discount
BCV Water View Room $2,602.95 $2,082.36
BCV Studio $2,245.43 $1,796.42
BCV 1 Bedroom $2,991.45 $2,393.16
CBR WaterView $1,149.46 $919.97
DVC Cost to Member
Points $ Cost Per Night
BCV Studio 104 $587.08 $83.87
BCV 1 Bedroom 200 $1,129.00 $161.29
If you eliminate the higher point cost Friday and Saturday night stays, you could bring your costs down even further.
yesdisneyfool
<font color=blue>I won't grow up!<br><font color=r
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After staying in a DVC a Non-DVC is just like you say - Honda vs Mercedes. I like that analogy, thanks PamOKW.
We love our home, OKW and are patiently waiting for an addon. Hope it won't take too long. NEED MORE POINTS.
To bank points you must call (or e-mail) Member Services and let them know. They will then give you a confirmation number to keep for your records. There are some limits as to how many points you can bank. Currently, it's 100% for the first six months of your Use Year, 50% for the next 3 months, 25% for the next month and none during the last 2 months of your Use Year. They are banked forward into the next Use Year cycle and must be used by the end of that cycle. Example, Use Year of August. Bank your August 2002 points into 2003. They must be used between August 2003 and July 31, 2004.
Chances are that the points for a stay in May '02 will be the same in May '25. If they are not, it is because something else has gone up or down to match the change. The total number of points will not change but they can make adjustments up and down. This has only happened once at OKW in 10 years. Holidays are also adjusted every year (Thanksgiving, Christmas) and if your stay bridges two "seasons" there can sometimes be a change. For example, the first week of May some years could include a day or two in April. April is higher points wise than May.
Points used at non-DVC resorts can fluctuate up and down.
Chances are that the points for a stay in May '02 will be the same in May '25. If they are not, it is because something else has gone up or down to match the change. The total number of points will not change but they can make adjustments up and down. This has only happened once at OKW in 10 years. Holidays are also adjusted every year (Thanksgiving, Christmas) and if your stay bridges two "seasons" there can sometimes be a change. For example, the first week of May some years could include a day or two in April. April is higher points wise than May.
Points used at non-DVC resorts can fluctuate up and down.
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