Concerned about kids club

[Kenny1113]

I know this is a little off topic...I am going to present another point of view for those calling people concerned with a child with known violent tendencies who hurts a child insensitive.
(To be clear I do not think the OP should leave child locked up in room either, I am just presenting the other side of the situation...the kid who is hurt by the kids who cannot control himself)

There is a child in my sons class who sounds similar to the OP. The teachers do not tell him what to do because it causes a meltdown. This child has taken turns treating different kids like his punching bag. My son is the child who follows every rule to the t and would not use violence to retaliate against the child. So my son was singled out for a period of time. He threw my son to the ground and choked him, slapped him in front of teachers, attempted to break his arm. I tried to get the school to intervene. Told my son that he was allowed to defend himself (although he was in great turmoil to the point of tears because the administration at the school told him that if he were to hit the kid back he would get in trouble, yet this child could repeatedly hurt him. )

 

[Little Doe]

Only a family that had a child with a disability can understand your hurt and doubts. I had two sons with ADHD and learning disabilities. Your son is like one of them. I also have an ADHD granddaughter. I went to the open house with her. Then the first time she was in the club by herself, I told her that I would stay outside the door for a while. That calmed her and helped her to try. She ended up loving the activities.

You know your son and how he is. Maybe you can try this. Take him to open house, talk to the cast staff, stay there during open house letting him run and play and see how it goes.

From my observations at the children's activities, the cast try their best to keep the peace and work with the children. Talk to them and try.

You are not the first mom with this issue. My heart goes out to you as I see myself in your place 20 years ago. I pray all goes well.

 

[k3chantal]

Hi everyone. My 7 year old son and I are getting ready to set sail next month on the fantasy, and I'm starting to get a little worried about the kids clubs. My son is very sociable and loves to play, I know he will have a great time and make lots of friends....my concern is about what (if any?) discipline procedures are used in the clubs.

My son is very sweet and sociable most of the time but he has ADHD, is very impulsive and has a temper. If he gets upset by something (normally this someone taking a toy from him, telling him he can't have a turn, and if they are beating him at a game he will say they are lying or cheating) he will throw a fit like he is 3 years old. Nicholas will scream and cry, hit, knock things over, etc. When he does this I (and his schools as well) will put him in time out. He will continue his fit and will get more upset and claim he didn't do anything wrong but he WILL come to time out (ie he doesn't run off or refuse to sit) and generally will calm down in a minute or two. After he finishes time out (we do 7 minutes for his age) he will readily apologize and pick up any mess he made from knocking things over or throwing things.

He is used to being away from me, I am a single mom and a nurse who works 10 hour shifts. My son is in daycare/school from 6:00am to 5:00pm Monday-Thursday and just school 7:30-2:30 on Fridays. He has these kinds of fits 2-3 times per week, more frequently at daycare since there is more play time there and that's generally when he gets upset.

He has come a long way...in the past I never would have even considered something like this. I'm just concerned since there is so much play in the kids clubs that this will happen and I'm unsure of how it will be handled. Will the kids clubs do a time out for him, just let him be/calm down on his own, or call me to handle it? Just letting it he is what worries me, we were attending a church that did that...every time I asked about his behavior when picking him up they would tell me he was fine, which wasn't the case. Once my son realized there weren't consequences for his behavior he escalated and ended up really injuring another child. But that was the first I ever heard of an incident from the childcare workers when really he'd been having difficulties every week. This was awhile ago and he has come a long way since but I don't want that to happen again.

Anyway can anyone tell me how discipline issues like this are handled in the clubs?? Thank you so much.

I just registered my kids for our next cruise and I did notice that when I registered I was agreeing to their policy which stated that they have a zero tolerance policy for hitting or other inappropriate behavior.

 

[Dug720]

I know this is a little off topic...I am going to present another point of view for those calling people concerned with a child with known violent tendencies who hurts a child insensitive.
(To be clear I do not think the OP should leave child locked up in room either, I am just presenting the other side of the situation...the kid who is hurt by the kids who cannot control himself)

There is a child in my sons class who sounds similar to the OP. The teachers do not tell him what to do because it causes a meltdown. This child has taken turns treating different kids like his punching bag. My son is the child who follows every rule to the t and would not use violence to retaliate against the child. So my son was singled out for a period of time. He threw my son to the ground and choked him, slapped him in front of teachers, attempted to break his arm. I tried to get the school to intervene. Told my son that he was allowed to defend himself (although he was in great turmoil to the point of tears because the administration at the school told him that if he were to hit the kid back he would get in trouble, yet this child could repeatedly hurt him. )

I teach special ed (children with autism), and every time something happens requiring a trip to the nurse and occurrence report, we all end up having a discussion about "preventable accidents". We're pretty lucky that right now it is things like ensuring the kiddos keep their eyes open when walking so they avoid door frames, or holding the hands of the ones who aren't so stable on stairs and/or are known to be runners.

But we are about to get a child in our school who due to violent outbursts is to have a crisis management paraprofessional with him at all times. If he were allowed to be in the school without that CMP with our knowledge that he has been violent in the past and another child were to be hurt, that would be considered a preventable accident.

Yes, any child can act out at any time, but when there is a history of violence, I'm sorry, but I do agree with those who say in this case the rights of many to be safe outweigh the rights of one to attend at non-open house times. I am NOT saying he should be locked in the cabin, but he should only be allowed in potentially volatile situations with a parent who CAN discipline him.

 

[disneydreaminA115]

I have a child, and I feel that if a parent leaves a child in a situation like the kids clubs where they KNOW their child has the potential to be uncontrollable and seriously injure other children, and they KNOW there is little the adults in charge are allowed to actually do to control unruly behavior that they do bear the responsibility when their child does harm to another child. The counselors in the club aren't going to stop it, they are only going to call the parents AFTER it happens. They cannot punish a child for misbehaving, and won't call a parent unless they are completely irrational, hurt another child seriously, or ask for their parent. It is NOT an environment to leave a potentially violent kid in. She says this kid has seriously injured someone in the past when his behavior wasn't corrected. I don't think the kids club is going to play out well for him, given what I have witnessed there as far as how the counselors are required to handle problem kids. There really isn't anything they can do about misbehavior, it is loud, chaotic, and there is a lot of running, pushing, shoving, ect. Sounds like a recipe for disaster with a volatile child.

So if you look back at the original post, it mentions that the posters child seriously injured another child.... I don't need to know the details but, Yes it is safe to say that if my children were seriously hurt by another child regardless of any other factors as was posted "there would be hell to pay". Yes special needs or not children have the capacity to act out... But let me ask you if your child was pushed off of the slide and broke her arm would you have been as forgiving? Or if the mother didn't handle it... And what if you found out this child had done the same thing the week before and the week before that to other kids....Bc knowingly putting your child in situations that could cause harm to others is the parents responsibility if you knowingly know your child has a tendency.

Now this is not to say children of special needs don't deserve to be treated equally and experience things, but likewise that doesn't excuse their actions and demand special treatment from facing the consequences after the fact..... As adults it is the parents responsibility to understand that your right to do something doesn't mean you have the right to but other people at risk. It is the parents job to understand your own child, And to take steps to minimize the risk special needs or not.....Knowing how to introduce a new environment to get the child acclimated as others have mentioned through open houses and talking to the cm's... Is the smart thing to do....

My child got a concussion once at a museum of play when an older boy ran her over because he wasn't paying attention. So yes, I get it, and unfortunately it's a risk we take when we choose to bring our children into public places with other children. Clearly the OP is concerned about doing the right thing because she's the one trying to figure out how to make it work. She has paid for her pass just like anyone else, and that gives her the right to utilize the facilities there. If her son wants to play in the kids clubs that's her right, and she's doing what she can to preemptively prepare. Now IF her son loses control, then ok, suggesting he stays away from the clubs is a reasonable response. However, I don't think it's right to put a blockade across it no ifs ands or buts. She's obviously trying to be responsible. The comment I responded to was both unhelpful and insensitive. We don't get to treat special needs children like they're carrying the plague and ban them from everything "just in case".

 

[eeyoreandtink]

My child got a concussion once at a museum of play when an older boy ran her over because he wasn't paying attention. So yes, I get it, and unfortunately it's a risk we take when we choose to bring our children into public places with other children. Clearly the OP is concerned about doing the right thing because she's the one trying to figure out how to make it work. She has paid for her pass just like anyone else, and that gives her the right to utilize the facilities there. If her son wants to play in the kids clubs that's her right, and she's doing what she can to preemptively prepare. Now IF her son loses control, then ok, suggesting he stays away from the clubs is a reasonable response. However, I don't think it's right to put a blockade across it no ifs ands or buts. She's obviously trying to be responsible. The comment I responded to was both unhelpful and insensitive. We don't get to treat special needs children like they're carrying the plague and ban them from everything "just in case".

But it's not "just in case" if you KNOW that environment is likely going to lead to your child acting out and hurting someone. I think it is irresponsible to knowingly put a child into a situation where they are likely to hurt other children just because "they paid for it too". I'm sorry, but that argument just doesn't fly with me. No one has a right to run roughshod over others, special needs or not. It doesn't give her the right to utilize the facilities if that means her kid injures someone else. He shouldn't have to hurt someone to prove it is a bad idea. If you KNOW your child has gotten violent in a similar situation in the past, common sense would say you avoid that situation in the future.as it said before, they should try open houses where mom is there to supervise, and if that goes well, then try short periods without supervision. If he cannot handle it and acts out, then he shouldn't be allowed to put other children at risk. I would say the same if it were my own child. My rights don't trump the rights of others to personal safety.

 

[gumbypee]

Wow. Well I'm glad there are some level headed people in this post that understand what I said.

I was never rude. I simply answeredthe op question in a way she didn't like. My personal opinion. Who ever said anything about locking kid up?!?!

Violence in kids is not a given either as one poster suggested. I never hit someone as a chid. My sister never hit someone as a child. My brother never hit someone as a child

I stand by what I said.

 

[disneydreaminA115]

Hi everyone. My 7 year old son and I are getting ready to set sail next month on the fantasy, and I'm starting to get a little worried about the kids clubs. My son is very sociable and loves to play, I know he will have a great time and make lots of friends....my concern is about what (if any?) discipline procedures are used in the clubs.

My son is very sweet and sociable most of the time but he has ADHD, is very impulsive and has a temper. If he gets upset by something (normally this someone taking a toy from him, telling him he can't have a turn, and if they are beating him at a game he will say they are lying or cheating) he will throw a fit like he is 3 years old. Nicholas will scream and cry, hit, knock things over, etc. When he does this I (and his schools as well) will put him in time out. He will continue his fit and will get more upset and claim he didn't do anything wrong but he WILL come to time out (ie he doesn't run off or refuse to sit) and generally will calm down in a minute or two. After he finishes time out (we do 7 minutes for his age) he will readily apologize and pick up any mess he made from knocking things over or throwing things.

He is used to being away from me, I am a single mom and a nurse who works 10 hour shifts. My son is in daycare/school from 6:00am to 5:00pm Monday-Thursday and just school 7:30-2:30 on Fridays. He has these kinds of fits 2-3 times per week, more frequently at daycare since there is more play time there and that's generally when he gets upset.

He has come a long way...in the past I never would have even considered something like this. I'm just concerned since there is so much play in the kids clubs that this will happen and I'm unsure of how it will be handled. Will the kids clubs do a time out for him, just let him be/calm down on his own, or call me to handle it? Just letting it he is what worries me, we were attending a church that did that...every time I asked about his behavior when picking him up they would tell me he was fine, which wasn't the case. Once my son realized there weren't consequences for his behavior he escalated and ended up really injuring another child. But that was the first I ever heard of an incident from the childcare workers when really he'd been having difficulties every week. This was awhile ago and he has come a long way since but I don't want that to happen again.

Anyway can anyone tell me how discipline issues like this are handled in the clubs?? Thank you so much.

But it's not "just in case" if you KNOW that environment is likely going to lead to your child acting out and hurting someone. I think it is irresponsible to knowingly put a child into a situation where they are likely to hurt other children just because "they paid for it too". I'm sorry, but that argument just doesn't fly with me. No one has a right to run roughshod over others, special needs or not. It doesn't give her the right to utilize the facilities if that means her kid injures someone else. He shouldn't have to hurt someone to prove it is a bad idea. If you KNOW your child has gotten violent in a similar situation in the past, common sense would say you avoid that situation in the future.as it said before, they should try open houses where mom is there to supervise, and if that goes well, then try short periods without supervision. If he cannot handle it and acts out, then he shouldn't be allowed to put other children at risk. I would say the same if it were my own child. My rights don't trump the rights of others to personal safety.

So, I've referenced the OP here because it really seems like you are completely glossing over what she said. In review:

- My son is very sociable and loves to play, I know he will have a great time and make lots of friends

- My son is very sweet and sociable most of the time

- that was the first I ever heard of an incident from the childcare workers when really he'd been having difficulties every week. This was awhile ago

- He has come a long way...in the past I never would have even considered something like this.

This is a far cry from being "likely to hurt someone" - she's simply not ignorant about the possibility in such a chaotic environment where there are other kids who might not play nicely (unless you're some of the other posters here who probably ALWAYS played nicely and NEVER hit or pushed or pinched or misbehaved in any way) and could set off his ADHD. Is it their fault he has special needs? No, of course not. But it's not his fault either. The OP is the mother and I believe that she seems intelligent enough to be able to ***** the situation for her own son. She doesn't need some random stranger telling her child what he should and shouldn't do. She asked to hear about the discipline procedures on the ship, the end. Every other decision lies with her - the only one who actually knows her son's struggles and abilities first hand.

 

[eeyoreandtink]

So, I've referenced the OP here because it really seems like you are completely glossing over what she said. In review: - My son is very sociable and loves to play, I know he will have a great time and make lots of friends - My son is very sweet and sociable most of the time - that was the first I ever heard of an incident from the childcare workers when really he'd been having difficulties every week. This was awhile ago - He has come a long way...in the past I never would have even considered something like this. This is a far cry from being "likely to hurt someone" - she's simply not ignorant about the possibility in such a chaotic environment where there are other kids who might not play nicely (unless you're some of the other posters here who probably ALWAYS played nicely and NEVER hit or pushed or pinched or misbehaved in any way) and could set off his ADHD. Is it their fault he has special needs? No, of course not. But it's not his fault either. The OP is the mother and I believe that she seems intelligent enough to be able to ***** the situation for her own son. She doesn't need some random stranger telling her child what he should and shouldn't do. She asked to hear about the discipline procedures on the ship, the end. Every other decision lies with her - the only one who actually knows her son's struggles and abilities first hand.

I think you are choosing to hear the good and glossing over the bad. She also said that currently, when he doesn't get his way, someone takes a toy from him, ect he will scream, cry, hit, and knock things over. That sounds to me like he is likely to hurt another child if they do something he doesn't like. My child has never, hit, pinched, or pushed another child that I know of since she was out of diapers. That is NOT normal behavior for a school aged child. You are right that she makes the decision, but all we were saying is that in light of the lack of discipline in the clubs, they might not be the environment for him. You cannot post on a message board that your child is potentially violent and uncontrollable to the point that he hits and throws things when he doesn't get his way, and you want the kids club counselor to put him In time out and not expect others with kids to react.

 

[MadTownKatz]

I am sorry I missed this post, but hopefully, the information can provide benefit to other families who might be nervous about behaviors on the cruise.

I would suggest spending time prior to the cruise to "rehearse" situations. For example, nowadays, one can go on Youtube and find dozens of videos that showcase families enjoying Disney cruises. I would sit down with Junior and watch several of those videos, and discuss what elements of the cruise they are looking forward to seeing and/or doing...and what elements are YOU looking forward to seeing and/or doing.

Go on the Disney Cruise Line page, and check out the videos and pictures...again, with the idea of helping your child gain familiarity with what they will be seeing and what they will be doing. Go over "the expectations" for the week, but I would suggest keeping things very simple. For example, in our household, the three basic rules are "Respect Yourself, Respect Others, and Respect Property." Pretty much all of Life's situations can be applied to those rules, and they are easy to remember.

Discuss how "respecting others" might look on the Cruise....discuss how "respecting yourself" might look, etc. etc. The point of all of this is to build a sense of predictability, a sense of consistency, and a sense of expectation/wonder. Sometimes, all that is required to help the child through these family events is spending the time and preparing the child for these family events....

Good luck, and happy cruising!

 

[disneydreaminA115]

I think you are choosing to hear the good and glossing over the bad. She also said that currently, when he doesn't get his way, someone takes a toy from him, ect he will scream, cry, hit, and knock things over. That sounds to me like he is likely to hurt another child if they do something he doesn't like. My child has never, hit, pinched, or pushed another child that I know of since she was out of diapers. That is NOT normal behavior for a school aged child. You are right that she makes the decision, but all we were saying is that in light of the lack of discipline in the clubs, they might not be the environment for him. You cannot post on a message board that your child is potentially violent and uncontrollable to the point that he hits and throws things when he doesn't get his way, and you want the kids club counselor to put him In time out and not expect others with kids to react.

No, I'm not glossing over it at all. Some of the other posters have made great helpful practical suggestions, like trying the open house, which I think is wise. Others - including those without kids - have been completely unhelpful in their comments, choosing only to try and guilt the OP for even considering letting her son participate. There is a very big difference.

 

[RollysMum]

Avoiding the controversy....My biggest concern with the kids club period is the wide age range. A 3 year old and a 10 year old are on a different level.

My child is almost 2, but when we return and he is 3, I highly doubt after reading all of this that we will allow him to go to the kids club until he is old enough to communicate very, very well.

 

[eeyoreandtink]

No, I'm not glossing over it at all. Some of the other posters have made great helpful practical suggestions, like trying the open house, which I think is wise. Others - including those without kids - have been completely unhelpful in their comments, choosing only to try and guilt the OP for even considering letting her son participate. There is a very big difference.

I haven't seen any posts that seem to be saying that to me, or tying to guilt anyone. I think you are taking some people's post the wrong way. The question was posed as to why even bother trying if you know there are likely to be issues.I read it as just that, a question. Not an indictment. No one except you referenced things like locking him away, ect. You are correct, several of us have suggested open house as an option, but bottom line, the CMs are not going to discipline anyone, so if he needs that secure programming may not be a good idea.

 

[bumbershoot]

Avoiding the controversy....My biggest concern with the kids club period is the wide age range. A 3 year old and a 10 year old are on a different level.

My child is almost 2, but when we return and he is 3, I highly doubt after reading all of this that we will allow him to go to the kids club until he is old enough to communicate very, very well.

The older kids really do self-segregate into older groups. They keep away from the youngers. Youngers might be all over the place, but DS has only been there as an older kid, and rarely even *sees* the younger kids. And since on Dream Club and Lab are one big space with an open hallways in between, if the youngers were all together with the olders I would have heard about it.

And when I go in to get DS I never see the younger kids in the older kid areas, or at least not so I really notice it.

 

[eeyoreandtink]

The older kids really do self-segregate into older groups. They keep away from the youngers. Youngers might be all over the place, but DS has only been there as an older kid, and rarely even *sees* the younger kids. And since on Dream Club and Lab are one big space with an open hallways in between, if the youngers were all together with the olders I would have heard about it. And when I go in to get DS I never see the younger kids in the older kid areas, or at least not so I really notice it.

We have had just the opposite experience on both the Dream and Magic. Littles were definitely in the older areas, and participating in the lab activities on a large scale. The result was that many things were "dumbed down" to accommodate.

 

[Kenny1113]

We have had just the opposite experience on both the Dream and Magic. Littles were definitely in the older areas, and participating in the lab activities on a large scale. The result was that many things were "dumbed down" to accommodate.

Yes! DS10 complained of this on our cruise in March. he was able to go to edge bc of his brother, but really didn't relate go the Tweens in there either. Put him in an in between stage where neither club really worked for him. :/

 

[eeyoreandtink]

Yes! DS10 complained of this on our cruise in March. he was able to go to edge bc of his brother, but really didn't relate go the Tweens in there either. Put him in an in between stage where neither club really worked for him. :/

My 10 year old aged up to the edge last cruise and had a blast with it, but she spends a lot of time with 12-13 year olds because she dances up an age group and is at the studio pretty much constantly.

 

[Tiffylv]

.

 

[mevelandry]

I don't have kids but one of my close friends has a kid with ADHD(impulsivity). So... Some of the comments here broke my heart... They are human with rights too. They should be allowed to play and socialize just like other kids.

There is absolutely no way a kid is gonna progress if you remove him for "normal activities".

IMO it is fear caused by ignorance. Just because it happened in the past does not mean it is absolutely going to happen again during the few days of the cruise. Yes, they need a little more attention than other children. But they can be just as nice, fun and loving as the other kids. I'm sure you could cross one of these kids path and you wouldn't even know.

And I'm convinced Tiffylv did her best to work with the CMs to make sure that everybody was safe and had a good time. She's obviously lucid and smart and wants to do the right thing. Maybe you should give her a little credit instead of assuming that her kid will injure someone!

 

[Terrena]

My daughter does not go in there unsupervised by at least one parent anymore. She was being bullied by other girls there and the counselors did not do anything about that. I am not sure what they can do, but they did nothing. She will go to the kids' area but only on open house times and with her dad.