Completely at a loss - 3 year old son caution long

[jcc0621]

OMG.. This is so us with DS's daycare. I got a phone call last week that he was disruping the class. When I asked how, the director says to me well, he doesn't want to paint Aaaaannnnnd? Well, becasue he didn't want to paint we told him he had to sit against the wall and wait for the other kids to finish. After sitting there for a few minutes he started peeling the decorations off the wall. Me: Did you give him something else to occupy him while the other kids were painting (i.e. a book or a puzzle). Her: No, he was placed in time out. She then goes on to say that if it continues I would have to go pick him up and he would be suspended for the next day And if he is suspended 3 times he is kicked out of daycare It should be noted that all of this started after I filed a complaint with the corporate office about the center and the way they ran the breakfast program...that is another long story.

----Friday was his last day at that particular daycare

 

[connorlevismom]

Abnormal for a 3 year old? Doesn't sound like it to me. BTW- a young 3 or an old 3? He sounds very normal, however, if it were my child, I would take steps to attempt to make him more agreeable in this type of 'classroom' setting.

I too have a wonderful babysitter and my chilren have only been 'bad' (according to her reports) about 2 times in the 4 - 5 years they have been going there - yeah right - my kids are NOT angels. However, I figured it out quickly - she is babysitting them - so they pretty much get to 'do' whatever they feel like (as long as they are well behaved) - they want to color for 30 seconds followed by getting out the blocks for 60 seconds followed by throwing a ball in the garage for 5 minutes - well, she lets them do that. And that's why it is a much different story at home where they have to follow a lot more rules (it's time to take a bath, it's time to clean your room, etc.). SO, what I'm saying is that he can be a normal boy who has not had enough exposure to following group setting rules. Maybe you could try going to some story hours at the library. We have a music school near here and we were able to get our kids into a preschool music class - a very good learning experience for child-teacher relationships and having to do what the whole class is doing instead of whatever the moment's desire is.

Definitely sounds like you should start trying some new experiences for him so that when he does go to preschool he is more used to that type of setting. But I certainly wouldn't worry about it - he is still young.

That is the thing though, he goes to a daycare center so his whole day revolves around structure and he seems to do just fine there. I have never had the teacher tell me that he does not get involved or won't participate, but I plan on asking her about it tomorrow.

I agree with those who think that kids need to know the world does not revolve around them. I am a first time mom and so it is hard to know what is normal or not. But I certainly try and teach my child that the world does not revolve around him and he is expected to do group things at daycare and I have never heard anything about the fact that he wont. So that is where I get confused.

Kristine

 

[java]

First off he is 3. To expect a 3 to sit through Sunday school after a week of daycare? I think that is expecting quite a bit from him. How much down time does he get? Structure structure structure may be too much for him. He sounds like a normal 3 year old boy to me(I have 3 boys and 1 girl) My now 4 year old could be great in school but church- that's a different story. To have to be so quiet for so long. Oh he hated it. I had to keep him entertained and I think that is normal. Why not let him play a little more?
Know that he is not that different from my boys. They would be right there with him on some days not wanting to listen at Sunday school. Ours doesn't start until 5 anyway.
And on the world revolving around him. He is 3! They will understand that the world doesn't revolve around them soon enough. Let him be king of his world one day a week.

 

[Honeymooner04]

I think your son sounds normal. I also think it sounds like this particular Sunday School class isn't suited for him. An hour of crafts seems like a lot for this age group and if the teacher is like I and a few other posters suspect is just a volunteer with no classroom training then she probably doesn't know how to connect with the wide variety of three year olds out there. There's a wide range of behaviors at age 3 that are normal and especially since he seems to get along well at his daycare I think it says a lot more about the poor structure of the Sunday school class and the lack of experience of the teacher than of your son.

Good luck finding a solution!

 

[deedeetoo]

I have to agree with others that the program should be more varied, or at least not that structured.

I also teach toddler (age 2&3) Sunday School. We have two adults and one teen in the class with about 15 kids. We are all volunteer with no formal training. Though we do have a "Bible Story of the Week" which we read and try to talk to the kids about, there are always some who have no interest. We let them play. We also have kids church music playing, and church related pictures to color, puzzles to do, etc. There is alot to keep the kids occupied and still aware that they are at church rather than just being babysat. But I have to admit most of them just want to play with the toys. We don't try to do crafts. They start that in the 4 year old class.

 

[emma'smom]

We have a preschool SS in our church that uses an approach called "Godly Play". During the hour, the kids play with the activities, have circle time, story time, snack time, and more play time (with a craft option), and then closing circle/singing time. We are mostly just moms who volunteer.

My suggestion would be to think about actually volunteering to be a helper in Sunday School. This way you can see your son in action and get a sense of how he does (in comparison with the other children, etc) while also spending some quality time with him and helping out at the same time.

As a working mom, I am always looking for ways that I spend extra time with my kids. One reason I signed up to help with SS in the first place was to be involved in something with my dd. Also, I think that, if my kid is in something...then I need to step up to the plate to support it (although I know that not everyone is comfortable teaching, etc).

But to address your original question----you son sounds like a young (But typical) 3...maybe he needs time to learn the classroom routines and/or extra one-on-one support to remind him of the rules. If you are fine with the nursery, maybe give him a break and start him again in a few months when you feel he is more ready.

 

[PA Princess]

I have to agree with others that your son sounds very normal to me. I was a first time mom to a very active son and I had similar worries. At 12 my son is still excitable at times, but he has learned with age to appropriately channel his enthusiasm.

At 3 my son would not have enjoyed the type of Sunday School class you describe, and honesyly I do not think it is what I would have wanted for him. At our church we do a some singing and a weekly Bible story with 2 and 3 year olds, but it is very low key and they participate to the extent that they are interested. At 4 they move to a more structured class with crafts and such and no toy playing time.

I woulld encourage you to be asking yourself what you hope your child will gain from Sunday School, and then decide the best place for him based on that.

For me I want all of my kids (we now have 4...2 boys and 2 girls) to just feel a part of church activties and to view it as a place they enjoy going and where they feel loved. The likelihood that Sunday School class instruction or craft projects would have any lasting impact on a 2 or 3 year old is pretty remote. Better that a sense of joy and love be communicated, in my opinion.

In addition to mom experience in regards to this issue, I have also been a Sunday School teacher for the last 12 years (I teach older kids), and my dh has taught the 2 and 3 year old class for the last 10 years. Plus, I have taught the 3 year old class at VBS for many, many years.

 

[PrincessHeart]

I guess you haven't been in many kindergarten rooms lately. Every room for kids I have ever visited or taught in has toys in it. It isn't practical to have separate rooms. Rooms generally have a play area and a work area, kids know the difference. Kids also need to learn to ignore things sometimes and to follow instructions. and as another poster said that sometimes you have to do things with the group even tho you may not especially want to. Kids need to learn the world doesn't revolve around them and their wants. (all the time)

Um - he's 3 not 5 and there is a huge developmental difference between the ability of a 3 year old and a 5 year old to delay gratification. There are things that are just beyond the ability of a 3 year old - like doing crafts for an hour while there are toys in the room. I think we need to not generalize the behavior to older children. I think that many toddlers have days where they are out of sorts and need better direction from a trained teacher. A volunteer at church may not be trained on what is developmentally appropriate. Also the curriculum or lack of may be the cause of the problem.

 

[Hannathy]

I was just saying kindergarten but our pre-school rooms at the Y when I taught there also had toys in the room. There was a play area and a story area and a work area all in one big room. Most Day cares have toys in the room but still bring the kids to tables for projects and expect them to focus on what they are doing. Toys are played with when you are in the toy area and not when you are in the work area. 3 is not to young to be expected to work in a group and follow instructions. Our Sunday School rooms for the 3-4 yr olds have NO toys they are expected to sit in a circle and listen and sing and do a craft if the don't like the craft they can sit there or work on a story box which is pieces from a bible story that is used in teaching.

If it is so unusual for 3 yr olds to be able to behave in this program then please explain why the other children were able to handle the class? And I do believe she did say she has been called from daycare for behavior 3 times and the child is only 3 yrs old. So things aren't 100% at day care either.

 

[fakereadhed]

I just want to know if my sons behavior is abnormal for a 3 year old.

Kristine

He wanted to play with toys in a room that was full of them. I'd say that's pretty normal for 3.

I think that while kids may have the ability to sit thru lessons and crafts at 3, they can't always do it on cue, every time until they are older. Maybe he had an off day, or just needed to let off some steam that day.

If the teacher spent most of her time in the hall trying to reason with a 3 yo I think she's the one with the problem.

 

[Karel]

Kindergarten is different than 3 year olds, although I don't really find putting things out to tempt children that they can't use developmentally appropriate practice.

I worked in a 3 and 4 year old preschool class and the shelves were covered with toys all around the room, as a good classroom should be. One of the first things we taught the kids is that there are times to play and there are times to sit and listen to the teacher.

Sitting and listening is an important skill to learn.

I just wanted to add for the OP: your child just may not be ready for an organized Sunday School class. As some have suggested, Sunday school is totally different than an organized daycare situation. You can't compare them. I've taught Sunday school and I'm a certified teacher. Teaching SS is very difficult.

I also want to add that I'm somewhat disturbed by your term, 'wrong'. If in fact there is ADD involved, and it's way too early to think about that, it's not wrong and it's not bad. It's just the way he is. Please don't suggest to him that something is 'wrong' with him.

 

[hsmamato2]

I haven't read the whole thread....but I have a STRONG opinion here....your son is being a 3 year old! He's barely out of toddlerhood,he has his own interests,and it's 100% normal for him to want to move his body and play! Just b/c so many 3 year olds can be corraled and coerced into sitting still,doesn't mean that they too wouldn't rather just be moving in one way or another..... let him play in the nursery if he's happy there,trust me,as the mother of energetic boys....he'll be able to sit and color in the lines nicely by the time he's college age!
I mean,unless you have a real strong need/reason that a 3 year old has to know how to shut up and sit still,and know how to squash down all his needs to move,then why worry?
IMO,kids learn better when they're allowed to move.....and forcing "interest" is never successful,sure they may sit still,but they're not really listening....
Just another mom of 2 very active boys...who are doing just fine......

 

[hsmamato2]

oh...please oh please don't immdeiately fall into the trap of 'labeling' a perfectly normal active child! Our society is so happy to instantly categorize and label such young kids.....it's so easy for someone to say "ADD,ADHD" or whatever....yes,kids all should learn boundaries,but each kid will learn them on their own timetable,just b/c they're thrust into a situation where they're 'expected' to know this at a certain age doesn't make it right.....

 

[meandtheguys2]

I have a little guy like that in my 3-5 class. He is just not a sit still kind of guy. Not abnormal in any manner. If there is another option for him, it might be good to use. So much in life is developmental in nature. More than likely, he'll learn to sit and do what he dislikes, just like most kids! A young 3 with a teacher who is lacking is a case-study in trouble, though. Especially if she is inclined to be legalistic.

 

[camdensmom]

I apologize because I have not read through the others replies so forgive me if I am repeating...

My 1st question is where does he fall on the 3 year old spectrum. There is a big difference between 36 months and 48 months. If he is responsive to established structure then I wouldn't be concerned. The true test is when he is in a structured environment that he is familiar with and is not able to be controlled.

The other suggestion would be to take an honest look at your parenting style. You certainly don't need to respond or comment on it, but if you are consistent and following through (as is your significant other) and he is not listening to you there may be cause for concern. If you know in your heart that you lack consistency then he is just being 3. I'm certainly not judging you and I hope this doesn't come across as if I (a stranger) feel you aren't parenting well. My intent is simply to give you a point to ponder and act as needed since none of us know you or your actual child it is hard to say that he may have behavioral issues that need to be addressed or that he is just being 3.

As a teacher, I am a huge advocate for early intervention and feel there is no harm in examining all options as soon as possible so that his time in actual school is happy and productive.

Lots of luck!

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I think your son sounds normal. I also think it sounds like this particular Sunday School class isn't suited for him. An hour of crafts seems like a lot for this age group and if the teacher is like I and a few other posters suspect is just a volunteer with no classroom training then she probably doesn't know how to connect with the wide variety of three year olds out there. There's a wide range of behaviors at age 3 that are normal and especially since he seems to get along well at his daycare I think it says a lot more about the poor structure of the Sunday school class and the lack of experience of the teacher than of your son.

Good luck finding a solution!

I think this is it perfectly. Yes, I think 3 year olds are capable of following instruction and should do it. BUT- teachers need to know how to connect with each child. Some need a little more coaxing or a different way to look at something to get them going so to speak. Some like quiet while others love it when you are super excited! Some are sensitive, some are easy going, some are not. I didn't realize that it was an hour of crafts. That is too much even for a 5 year old. 10 minutes is the max in my opinion that they should be expected to do any one project. They just don't have the capability to pay attention for much longer than that at that age. Some kids do but most do not. My kids may play with playdoh for a half hour but maybe color for 5 minutes. It depends on their mood. Don't beat yourself up over it but try to see what is going on in the class by watching without him knowing. Then you can see if he is being fresh or just bored. This class may not be for him. There is nothing wrong with putting him in the nursery if he is not ready. Personally I think 3 is too young for SS. JMO of course. Oh and to those who think the room should be stripped of toys I do not agree. Kids can learn that it is not time to do certain things and at 3 that is what they do in pre-school. Again. JMHO and experience.

 

[ASFCurly]

If they were doing crafts for maybe 15 or 20 minutes and not longer I can see the teacher expecting the child to sit and participate and say they are causing problems if they don't. But very few 3 year olds are going to be able to sit for any longer than that, especially if it is something they don't want to do, and hour is unreasonable.

 

[PrincessParty]

I just wanted to give you a hug. I am the Mom of one of "THOSE" children and it is hard, but I wouldn't trade it for the world. Some days are harder than others and I don't have any answers as each child is different. Hang in there! The advice I would give is to pick and choose your battles, is this one that is very important to you? (I do not mean the religious aspect, but is it a must that he attend Sunday School.) If yes, options might be for you to attend with him or hire a "helper" (babysitter) for the class for the 1:1 ratio. My DD just made her First Holy Communion this past year and for her Communion pictures I don't know who is happier, my DD that CCD was over for the year or Sister because CCD was over for the year. We have chosen not to medicate or label DD, because I believe they don't outgrow the symptoms, they just learn what works for them to deal/cope. I am not anti medicine, it is just a choice for my DD at this point in time. When she is older and feels she needs it, we will discuss it at that time. Sorry this post is so long, again, just hang in there!!!!! Again, these are just my opinions and I don't want to start any debates, just wanted to let you know that you are not alone.

 

[Camno's Mama]

While I do not have a degree in EC, I do have one in elementary and have worked in day care and preschool for years. I also taught three-year-old Sunday School last year. Lots of kids just want to play with the toys. I would always give them some time to do that, and then I had less of a hard time when it came down to doing the craft or coloring. If they didn't want to do it, I just had them read in the circle area.

Kids that age are unpredictable and not all the same. Someone more unqualified might get more freaked out by that than other people. I would say that the biggest problem is the running out of the room. We had a kid that did that, and there just isn't enough staff to handle that kind of behavior. Try to talk to him about that and remind him to be sweet and use his pleases and thank yous! I've found that they can get away with pretty much whatever if they're a sweetie. Also, make sure you tell the teachers how much he LOVES it there and talks about it at home. If they are just unqualified volunteers, that encouragement goes a long way, too. It will make them more patient when he's not doing what they want him to do.

Sounds to me like he's pretty normal. I have a wild one myself, and I get worried sometimes, too. I know deep down that he's just having fun, and I have to just be patient and listen to the criticisms from the teacher, and just do my best to work with him. And then just let it all roll off of me because I know he's sweet and I know he'll turn out great!

Good luck!

 

[PrincessHeart]

While I do not have a degree in EC, I do have one in elementary and have worked in day care and preschool for years. I also taught three-year-old Sunday School last year. Lots of kids just want to play with the toys. I would always give them some time to do that, and then I had less of a hard time when it came down to doing the craft or coloring. If they didn't want to do it, I just had them read in the circle area.

Kids that age are unpredictable and not all the same. Someone more unqualified might get more freaked out by that than other people. I would say that the biggest problem is the running out of the room. We had a kid that did that, and there just isn't enough staff to handle that kind of behavior. Try to talk to him about that and remind him to be sweet and use his pleases and thank yous! I've found that they can get away with pretty much whatever if they're a sweetie. Also, make sure you tell the teachers how much he LOVES it there and talks about it at home. If they are just unqualified volunteers, that encouragement goes a long way, too. It will make them more patient when he's not doing what they want him to do.

Sounds to me like he's pretty normal. I have a wild one myself, and I get worried sometimes, too. I know deep down that he's just having fun, and I have to just be patient and listen to the criticisms from the teacher, and just do my best to work with him. And then just let it all roll off of me because I know he's sweet and I know he'll turn out great!

Good luck!

This is great advice! I think one huge problem is that the OP stated that they are never allowed to play with the toys. That's just asking for trouble IMHO. If they could play with them at first like PP suggested, then he would probably be more willing to transition into another activity. My DD, from age 18 months, had a little boy in her sunday school class that's seems to be a lot like how you describe your son. He's in first grade now - at the same school and same class. He doing very well and does not have a "behavior problem". Some boys just need more time to mature.