...Colorblind and all that is wrong with it.

[wilkeliza]

I normally don't comment on these conversations here because this is not why I come to these boards. But, I just want to add that as a person who teaches small children they do notice differences; they just don't judge people by them. I am not the same race as most of my students and they comment about it sometimes. But, it has never been with malice. It is usually out of pure observation or curiosity. This is what makes "color blind" a hard one for me to accept. The kids of today are more accepting of people that are different from them not because they ignore it, but because they know it is okay to be different from each other. I really think rather than calling it being "PC" people really need to just respect each other. Nobody ever said we all have to agree; but the least we can do is be respectful.

On another note I have a student this year who truly believed that my skin would be green when he heard my name was Mrs. Green. On the very first day of school he looks at and me says with complete wonderment in eyes "You are brown everywhere aren't ya!" And, I said "Yes I am." Then he said "That's good. Because I had never seen a green person before."

Thank you for your insight. That does make sense. We aren't color blind because we see and acknowledge a difference but we don't let it affect our interaction or judgement of a person. So thinking of it that way I do see where colorblind is not a good term. I thought about how we don't say we are blind to other "differences" so it doesn't make sense to say we are color blind. I'll try to remember that in my own on going journey of growth.

 

[lovelygirl1975]

Thank you for your insight. That does make sense. We aren't color blind because we see an acknowledge a difference but we don't let it affect our interaction or judgement of a person. So thinking of it that way I do see where colorblind is not a good term. I thought about how we don't say we are blind to other "differences" so it doesn't make sense to say we are color blind. I'll try to remember that in the own going journey of growth.

Your comments touched me. And you worded what I meant better than I did.

 

[Yumi696]

It's not really elegant though when one totally ignores facts from an opposing viewpoint.

But this isn't opposing viewpoint as in...I think this show sucks or this show is better than another show. This is an opposing viewpoint as in...people of color would like to be respected in this manner and other people just saying no.

I agree with Nikki. I'll add my thought which is this: people evolve at different paces. There's not one person on this podcast that wants to hurt people. You had a podcast member in this thread learning and asking questions. Cultural appropriation is a hard concept for a lot of people to grasp, I give them credit for wanting to learn and making it clear that they don't want to hurt anyone. With so much intentional and blatant discrimination that goes on, I think their intent matters; and in my opinion, their intentions are good. But if you're not comfortable listening to the podcast, I understand.

That's the good thing is that people are learning from these discussions. But yeah I'll think about it...maybe when more time has passed I can come back to the podcast...

Perhaps the phrase people are looking for is more "color neutral" than "color blind". It is what I try to teach my kids at least. Yes, we are all different in many ways, but we should all be treated the same.

I like that! I wonder if we can make that a thing...

I have a lot of strong opinions on this topic, so I probably should avoid posting in the first place, but I will share my thoughts because I hope it contributes to the dialogue. Some things to know about me - I am a white female mother of a biracial child. I also work in higher education so these are conversations I have with college students all of the time. Many times I think the problem when we get down to the heart of the issue is that individuals may feel that because they (as an individual) are "colorblind" then they do not contribute to the problem of continued racial injustice in the country (or may not believe racial injustice is still a problem), however the issues that affect people of color are not issues they may have ever encountered so it is difficult for them to empathize / understand from the other persons' perspective how systemic racism (or racism that is of the larger society, not racism of an individual) continues to affect people of color.

Colorblind in some communities is a code word for "I don't as an individual discriminate against people who are racially different from me." In other communities "colorblind" is a code word for someone who does not believe racism continues to be an issue in this country. It also assumes (in my opinion) the requirement that those people of color who have better assimilated into the majority culture (i.e. taken on the cultural norms of the majority culture) are the "good" people of color. Some while the "intent" of someone using the word colorblind might be to show that they are not racist, the impact for some people is actually an indicator that the person does not believe racism exists or does not feel like they (as a white person) have a role to play in overcoming systemic racism in our country.

What most people of color want (from my perspective) is to be acknowledged and listened to when these topics come up as opposed to being immediately dismissed. It's what anyone wants when they are feeling like others don't understand or try to understand their perspective. I also think it's important that everyone of all races has a role to play in overcoming the issues that continue to plague our country as it applies to race and racial injustice/racial oppression -- but if we cannot as a collective agree that there is a problem, than we are all just banging our heads against a wall in frustration with no hope of change.

Slow claps. I mean, just...yes. All of this. Thank you so much.

 

[megster1123]

But this isn't opposing viewpoint as in...I think this show sucks or this show is better than another show. This is an opposing viewpoint as in...people of color would like to be respected in this manner and other people just saying no.

That's not exactly what I was referring to. The OP made some very strongly worded comments and I called the validity of one into question. Rather than address the point of view I presented and expand on her thought process, she just outright ignored my question. I don't really care for people that cherry pick points of a discussion and speak to only the ones that fit their point of view.

 

[gmboy95]

I know that saying you “don’t see color” or kids don't see color seems ok BUT it is not. I don’t think Pete knows or realizes how offensive it is to a person of color to hear those words. By saying you don’t see color you are washing away peoples struggle, history. People of color want you to see race, we just don’t want you to use it against us. There is a big difference. Do you notice the difference between a rose and violet? Would you be flower blind? Its sickening to hear Theresa say her children are colorblind, after her defense of the Confederate flag.

As for the idea that apportion is ludicrous? Marc Jacobs could have used models, black models with colored dread-locks. Did he? no. Why not? Why is the hairstyle of the people ok to use but not the people themselves?

When you're so privileged you don't see the issue with saying you don't see color. I don't think that Disney meant anything by having this costume. I also think people need to understand its not about them.

I think you are spot on with this.....it reminds me of a song i heard the other day that had a line in it "I guess you can say it aint racial, I dont know cause i aint black".....it is simplistic as hell, but so true nonetheless....Its no different when i turn on a talk show and watch a panel full of all men discuss womens health issues or abortion. I'm sorry but the term "indian style" was something that needed to be eliminated only for the reason that it makes us better people not to speak that way. So the discussion this past week was uncomfortable for me. If for the only reason there was no person of color to lend any perspective

 

[gmboy95]

I will be honest i was uncomfortable listening to the show just now on this subject. I have zero feedback on the dreadlock issue, because i think it buries the lead......the real issue is that we had a group of white folks in a room discussing race issues, and i was left with a thought that maybe thats something as the podcast moves forward could be an area that we see some thought around, because these issues are important

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I will be honest i was uncomfortable listening to the show just now on this subject. I have zero feedback on the dreadlock issue, because i think it buries the lead......the real issue is that we had a group of white folks in a room discussing race issues, and i was left with a thought that maybe thats something as the podcast moves forward could be an area that we see some thought around, because these issues are important

I fail to see why the races of the people on the podcast mean certain topics are off limits.

I don't get easily offended but really your statement of "we had a group of white folks in a room discussing race issues" along with that being the real issue in your opinion does actually offend me. Any person of any race with any background should be able to discuss things and not have their race determine if their topic has merit.

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

I fail to see why the races of the people on the podcast mean certain topics are off limits.

I don't get easily offended but really your statement of "we had a group of white folks in a room discussing race issues" along with that being the real issue in your opinion does actually offend me. Any person of any race with any background should be able to discuss things and not have their race determine if their topic has merit.

Not off limits but there is also something to be said when there isn't any one POC able to speak as someone who is affected. Yes, everyone can have empathy this is true but there needs to be someone other than one majority. Its the same issue I had when the conversation about theConfederate flag was had. There was a small group of white southern woman saying its no big deal...

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Not off limits but there is also something to be said when their isn't any one POC able to speak as someone who is affected. Yes, everyone can have empathy this is true but there needs to be someone other than one majority. Its the same issue I had when the conversation about theConfederate flag was had. There was a small group of white southern woman saying its no big deal...

hmm..guess I didn't realize the podcast turned into a race against race issue..guess I'm just one of those people who prefer to talk about things rather than invalidating someone's opinion or thoughts because of their race.

In your situation regarding the confederate flag it, at least in my opinion in this day and age, should have read "There was a small group of people saying its no big deal" not "There was a small group of white southern woman saying its no big deal"

 

[DisneyKevin]

Not off limits but there is also something to be said when their isn't any one POC able to speak as someone who is affected. Yes, everyone can have empathy this is true but there needs to be someone other than one majority. Its the same issue I had when the conversation about theConfederate flag was had. There was a small group of white southern woman saying its no big deal...

As has been pointed out previously, Kathy is from Pittsburgh Pennsylvania and Teresa is from Illinois.

As for not being racially diverse enough to hold a conversation...if it upsets you or makes you uncomfortable, turn it off.

We are who we are. We can't change that, but that doesn't mean our opinions (notice I said opinions) aren't valid,

if they do not match your opinion or your reality, you can discuss that. There is a forum in place (this is it) where you are welcome to discuss whatever you wish to discuss...good, bad indifferent.

As I have explained before, I try to learn and better myself every day, but I (nor anyone else on the show) am not perfect.

As you are black Mother, you have a very different history and experience than I do. But as a fat, gay white kid...my experience is very different than yours and it's still socially okay to shame fat kids and gay kids.

The idea that we can't hold any discussion is in my opinion silly. You may not like or agree with what you hear. All I have to do is turn on the news and I often hear things I don't like and don't agree with, but it doesn't mean I don't want to hear whats being said. Thats how we learn and grow. You can't teach and change minds and opinions unless you know what the opinions and ideas are.

If you only want to hear things that you like and agree with...I am certain there is a podcast out there for you.

By the way...the conversation started as a discussion about removing a costume because it was deemed offensive.

 

[disneysteve]

There was a small group of white southern woman

Why do you persist in saying this? There is ONE white southern woman on the podcast - Julie. Nobody else is from the south.

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

Why would an all white group of people discussing Disney make me uncomfortable? I live in a predominately all white area and my child is one of 15 african american students in a school of 250. All white everything is kinda my norm however it doesn't make me any less observant of the fact that as much as I love listening to you guys, there is not an abundant amount of racial diversity at the table.

Sorry, I consider Florida the south so knowing they live there makes me say "Southern woman." Which is a valid distinction to make when discussing the Confederate Flag IMO.

I did not say that anyones opinion weren't valid only that there is one majority giving an opinion. I'm just suggesting people be mindful of how they may view a topic when it comes to another race. I think it can be easy to lose sight of the fact that all minorities want is to be represented in a positive light and even more so just want to be respected.

 

[disneyland_is_magic]

I wanted to give the podcast some credit for something that hasn't been mentioned. Last week someone stated and others agreed that "polyface" was a bad play on words. They thought it was disrespectful to Black Americans, their history and diminished the true offensiveness of the term blackface. All Americans are capable of being sensitive to all other Americans.
Do you not believe that a group of friends, with no one listening can truly be decent people? If a white person can not achieve acceptance, love, compassion and sensitivity without a POC constantly present to monitor their opinions, then this country has zero hope.

Kevin and the rest of the gang are very decent people, (sure give them a little feedback) but my goodness have more faith in people.

 

[disneysteve]

Sorry, I consider Florida the south so knowing they live there makes me say "Southern woman."

We'll have to agree to disagree on that point.

To me, saying someone is "southern" has to do with where they were born and raised, not where they happen to live at the moment. You won't find an abundance of people in Florida over the age of 40 or so who were raised there. Most are transplants, like Kathy and Teresa and Jackie, and Pete and John and Kevin and Craig.... I have a cousin who was born and raised in Maryland. He currently lives in England. Does that somehow make him British rather than American? Of course not.

 

[DisneyKevin]

Why would an all white group of people discussing Disney make me uncomfortable? I live in a predominately all white area and my child is one of 15 african american students in a school of 250. All white everything is kinda my norm however it doesn't make me any less observant of the fact that as much as I love listening to you guys, there is not an abundant amount of racial diversity at the table.

Sorry, I consider Florida the south so knowing they live there makes me say "Southern woman." Which is a valid distinction to make when discussing the Confederate Flag IMO.

I did not say that anyones opinion weren't valid only that there is one majority giving an opinion. I'm just suggesting people be mindful of how they may view a topic when it comes to another race. I think it can be easy to lose sight of the fact that all minorities want is to be represented in a positive light and even more so just want to be respected.

I think we agree a lot more than it seems we do.

You didnt say "Souther woman'. You said "Southern white women".

I live in Florida. I am from New York. I have chosen to live in the South. I am not Southern. I do not have a Southern history except for the last 20 years.

Because you didn't like what they said, you categorized them as "Southern white women". You are doing what you don't want others to do to you. Two of them are not Southern, although labeling them that works in your explanation of your feelings.

Stereotypes work in every direction.

There is not a lot of racial diversity at our table. As the VAST majority of what we talk about is Disney...would race make a difference. Is someone's race important to in the discussion of Disney? Most of us at the table have been with the DIS and Dreams for quite a while. The rest applied for the jobs available and Pete hired the person he thought most qualified for the job. Should someone be hired because of their race? If you know someone racially different than those at the table and they have the skills required for the next job opening, I would strongly suggest that you encourage them to apply.

Finally...my remarks about not listening if it makes you "uncomfortable" were not directed at you specifically. They were directed at anyone that felt uncomfortable with our discussion.

Our discussions are Disney based (at least most of the time). This discussion was initiated by Disney removing a costume deemed racially insensitive. As the topic was topical and current, finding an African American, a Pacific Islander and anyone else that anyone thinks should have been involved would have proven almost impossible. The only person that knew we were going to discuss this costume removal was the person that wrote the news story and even that person didn't know where the discussion would go. We don't prepare for our discussions. They are organic and happen at the table.

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

I agree, I think we do agree on more than we likely know! Maybe thats because I'm a New Yorker too. When I pointed out Southern white women its because some white southerners have a very different view of the confederate flag than say some Southern Black women. They are used to the "good ol' boys", family and friends,waving them on the back of their trucks or having tee shirts, etc. So to me, that was an important distinction to make. I say this as someone who had parents grow up in the "deep south" during segregation. I know the fear and ideas that are felt from seeing that flag.

Back on topic!

In my opinion, even though the conversation is Disney specific diversity just brings to the table a view point that may not be heard or an awareness that may not be there, constantly. Notice i said may not. Will it change the conversation? Maybe for the worse of better I don't know. I would like to think for the better. I don't think this will be the last time Disney does something before thinking it really through.

I do have faith in you guys, especially you.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I agree, I think we do agree on more than we likely know! Maybe thats because I'm a New Yorker too. When I pointed out Southern white women its because some white southerners have a very different view of the confederate flag than say some Southern Black women. They are used to the "good ol' boys", family and friends,waving them on the back of their trucks or having tee shirts, etc. So to me, that was an important distinction to make. I say this as someone who had parents grow up in the "deep south" during segregation. I know the fear and ideas that are felt from seeing that flag.

Quite honestly I know we will need to agree to disagree here but I think you missed my point at least regarding race.

Instead of stating that there was a difference in viewpoint regarding the confederate flag you called attention to a person's race and a stereotype of that (white and southern=indifference of the confederate flag when you could have easily said people/person who has an indifference towards the conferate flag).

In your statement above you also called attention to race when you could have simply said a person or persons/people: "some white southerners have a very different view of the confederate flag than say some Southern Black women."

It's a fundamental difference in the way, at least it seems, that you have regarding topics in general but it's def. a big difference.

This is with absolutely no offense meant but I sincerely hope that those I associate with see me as a human being not a white midwestern female.

Somehow I get the impression that there is at least one person out there who has never watched the podcast, nor knows the faces of those on the podcast, and instead just listens and may be completely unaware what race the podcasters are. I'd like to think that they can listen and form their own opinion without needing to know the race of those voices they are hearing.

 

[disneyland_is_magic]

I decided to share something personal but changed my mind. It's time to agree to disagree.

 

[DSNYDREAMER]

I don't have anything to really add to the conversation, but felt I needed to say it has made me stop and take pause. While some posts have made me shake my head, the spirit of the thread has taught me something I didn't know or understand before. Thank you.

 

[Jobie]

I used to say I was "colored blind", but after discussions with friends, reading, and listening to others, I have found that many find this approach as offensive. At first I was shocked that it was offensive. I thought I was attempting to take the correct approach: to not see the color of the person, but to just see the person. To many though, this approach seems as if we are ignoring the fact they have a different fight than me. For me to ignore the color of a person, would me that I also do not recognize that the person is treated differently by many in society. That I was ignoring the fight and struggle they have compared to me. It was a real eye opener to me, and I have attempted to readjust myself on this.

Earlier this year, another podcast I listen to, The Liturgusts, had a really good episode called Racism in America. They had an honest and frank discussion that opened my eyes even more. The podcast does carry a Christian perspective, but it really tries to position itself to be thought provoking to all audiences. It is a really powerful episode, and I have recommended it to many of friends to listen to. If you want to check it out, you can here: http://www.theliturgists.com/podcast/2016/3/29/episode-34-black-and-white-racism-in-america.

There are still many things I do not understand or agree with, but I think conversations are healthy and a good way to learn from one another. I have a hard time understanding why models wearing dreadlocks would be offensive, but I do see why the term "colored blind" could be.

Intent does matter when using words, but understanding how someone interprets the words could carry even more weight.