...Colorblind and all that is wrong with it.

[disneysteve]

I have a hard time understanding why models wearing dreadlocks would be offensive

Same here. I also know white people who wear dreadlocks so I really don't get what the issue actually is with that.

 

[UKYRob29]

 

[*NikkiBell*]

In my opinion, even though the conversation is Disney specific diversity just brings to the table a view point that may not be heard or an awareness that may not be there, constantly. Notice i said may not. Will it change the conversation? Maybe for the worse of better I don't know. I would like to think for the better. I don't think this will be the last time Disney does something before thinking it really through.

I do have faith in you guys, especially you.

So, should Pete specifically seek out a person of color because there's not one at the table? I find it particularity grating (think nails on a chalkboard) when it's suggested companies should hire someone just to fill the chair and be "diverse." The best candidates should be chosen based on their skills, not what they look like.

 

[Yumi696]

So, should Pete specifically seek out a person of color because there's not one at the table? I find it particularity grating (think nails on a chalkboard) when it's suggested companies should hire someone just to fill the chair and be "diverse." The best candidates should be chosen based on their skills, not what they look like.

I'm gonna address the second part of the statement here which talks about affirmative action. Here's a link talking about affirmative action, free for consumption.
http://www.understandingprejudice.org/readroom/articles/affirm.htm

Affirmative action is about correcting decades and centuries of institutionalized discrimination that has left significant portions of certain types of minorities living without opportunities for growth, living in poorer neighborhoods and being sent to schools that are not that great. And real affirmative action does not mean giving someone unqualified the job, as is stated in the link above.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I'm gonna address the second part of the statement here which talks about affirmative action. Here's a link talking about affirmative action, free for consumption.
http://www.understandingprejudice.org/readroom/articles/affirm.htm

Affirmative action is about correcting decades and centuries of institutionalized discrimination that has left significant portions of certain types of minorities living without opportunities for growth, living in poorer neighborhoods and being sent to schools that are not that great. And real affirmative action does not mean giving someone unqualified the job, as is stated in the link above.

I can't speak on Nikkibell's part really (and I aplogize if I'm stepping on toes by responding here) but I somehow doubt she was she was meaning affirmative action in the sense that you brought up.

The poster, who Nikkibell was responding to, stated: "..there is also something to be said when their isn't any one POC able to speak as someone who is affected". That statement along with the statement that Nikkibell responded to implies that Pete should hire someone of a different ethnitcity simply so in the off-chance something comes up that person is able to provide perspective (which mind you I don't think race should determine that but anywho) rather than based on merit.

 

[gmboy95]

I fail to see why the races of the people on the podcast mean certain topics are off limits.

I don't get easily offended but really your statement of "we had a group of white folks in a room discussing race issues" along with that being the real issue in your opinion does actually offend me. Any person of any race with any background should be able to discuss things and not have their race determine if their topic has merit.

It doesn't, but pointing out a lack of diversity anywhere should never be a bad thing

 

[gmboy95]

So, should Pete specifically seek out a person of color because there's not one at the table? I find it particularity grating (think nails on a chalkboard) when it's suggested companies should hire someone just to fill the chair and be "diverse." The best candidates should be chosen based on their skills, not what they look like.

I think having a person of color in the podcast would be great for the podcast!!!!....so yeah, I think having that perspective may have made a conversation like that a bit more substantive...I see nothing wrong with advocating for that

 

[gmboy95]

So, should Pete specifically seek out a person of color because there's not one at the table? I find it particularity grating (think nails on a chalkboard) when it's suggested companies should hire someone just to fill the chair and be "diverse." The best candidates should be chosen based on their skills, not what they look like.

Companies shouldn't hire people to fill a quota, they should hire people to reflect the community they serve, and most companies like Disney , serve a diverse multi cultural audience....if it makes you uncomfortable, that's probably a good thing!

 

[gmboy95]

I can't speak on Nikkibell's part really (and I aplogize if I'm stepping on toes by responding here) but I somehow doubt she was she was meaning affirmative action in the sense that you brought up.

The poster, who Nikkibell was responding to, stated: "..there is also something to be said when their isn't any one POC able to speak as someone who is affected". That statement along with the statement that Nikkibell responded to implies that Pete should hire someone of a different ethnitcity simply so in the off-chance something comes up that person is able to provide perspective (which mind you I don't think race should determine that but anywho) rather than based on merit.

No....it would be nice to have some diversity on the podcast to get a different perspective ...that is all, no more no less

 

[gmboy95]

As has been pointed out previously, Kathy is from Pittsburgh Pennsylvania and Teresa is from Illinois.

As for not being racially diverse enough to hold a conversation...if it upsets you or makes you uncomfortable, turn it off.

We are who we are. We can't change that, but that doesn't mean our opinions (notice I said opinions) aren't valid,

if they do not match your opinion or your reality, you can discuss that. There is a forum in place (this is it) where you are welcome to discuss whatever you wish to discuss...good, bad indifferent.

As I have explained before, I try to learn and better myself every day, but I (nor anyone else on the show) am not perfect.

As you are black Mother, you have a very different history and experience than I do. But as a fat, gay white kid...my experience is very different than yours and it's still socially okay to shame fat kids and gay kids.

The idea that we can't hold any discussion is in my opinion silly. You may not like or agree with what you hear. All I have to do is turn on the news and I often hear things I don't like and don't agree with, but it doesn't mean I don't want to hear whats being said. Thats how we learn and grow. You can't teach and change minds and opinions unless you know what the opinions and ideas are.

If you only want to hear things that you like and agree with...I am certain there is a podcast out there for you.

By the way...the conversation started as a discussion about removing a costume because it was deemed offensive.

Not to be difficult....but can you point out the part where someone advocated for NOT having a discussion...you are trying to frame this as a suppression of speech issue, and that is 180 degree opposite of what some folks are saying...they are saying that the discussion may be too narrow, and are advocating for expanding the perspectives ...I enjoy the discussion, but let's be willing to meet each other in the middle and not warp anyone's meaning

 

[disneyland_is_magic]

I hope I am not stepping on Mackenzie's toes but this wasn't someone pointing out diversity (or lack thereof). This was someone making whole northern white women vs southern white women stereotype. I tried to think of a justifiable reason for making a statement about "black northern women" and I am nothing short of horrified with myself!

It goes beyond that, the OP was asking us to expand our sensitivity. She has been now told several times that her statements about "white southern women" are offensive. Where are the apologies? I feel like I am banging my head against a wall but you can't ask people to adjust THEIR vocabulary when you make frankly racially based statements in the same thread!

Statements made by the OP are far more racist in nature then ANYTHING the podcasters have ever said. They are decent people, the ONE white southern women Julie is absolutely brilliant. I have never seen her to be anything but kind and well spoken.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Companies shouldn't hire people to fill a quota, they should hire people to reflect the community they serve, and most companies like Disney , serve a diverse multi cultural audience....if it makes you uncomfortable, that's probably a good thing!

No they should not hire based on the communities they serve..that would be discrimination if they chose not to hire someone because it didn't fit with their target or main demographic. That's like saying a company in a nice area with high income earners should only hire those that also live in that nice area and came from a high earning job or on the flip side that a company in a not so nice area with low income earners should only hire those that also live in that not so nice area and only came from a low earning job because heck both of those fit in their respective communities..that is discrimination.

I think having a person of color in the podcast would be great for the podcast!!!!....so yeah, I think having that perspective may have made a conversation like that a bit more substantive...I see nothing wrong with advocating for that

If the podcast disatisfies you in regards to diversity I suggest you either A} find a podcast(s) that have/has the diversity you want B} speak directly, not in a thread, with the persons involved with hiring and inquire as to their hiring practices if you truly believe they purposefully do not hire the way you think they should hire. I'm all for discussion absolutely but when you have internal questions on the ethical practices of those responsible for the forum you are actually discussing on it's time for a private one-on-one discussion.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I hope I am not stepping on Mackenzie's toes but this wasn't someone pointing out diversity (or lack thereof). This was someone making whole northern white women vs southern white women stereotype. I tried to think of a justifiable reason for making a statement about "black northern women" and I am nothing short of horrified with myself!

It goes beyond that, the OP was asking us to expand our sensitivity. She has been now told several times that her statements about "white southern women" are offensive. Where are the apologies? I feel like I am banging my head against a wall but you can't ask people to adjust THEIR vocabulary when you make frankly racially based statements in the same thread!

Statements made by the OP are far more racist in nature then ANYTHING the podcasters have ever said. They are decent people, the ONE white southern women Julie is absolutely brilliant. I have never seen her to be anything but kind and well spoken.

Rest assured you were not stepping on my toes.

I do also agree with your points.

 

[DisneyKevin]

Not to be difficult....but can you point out the part where someone advocated for NOT having a discussion...you are trying to frame this as a suppression of speech issue, and that is 180 degree opposite of what some folks are saying...they are saying that the discussion may be too narrow, and are advocating for expanding the perspectives ...I enjoy the discussion, but let's be willing to meet each other in the middle and not warp anyone's meaning

A "suppression of speech"?

I find this laughable.

You said it made you uncomfortable.

I suggested that if it made you uncomfortable, you might want to not listen.

No one wants you to be uncomfortable.

You said what you felt necessary. I said what I felt necessary.

I'm uncertain as to where the "warping" took place.

Anyone interested has voiced their opinion and it's been an informative and educational conversation.

As long as DIS Board policies are followed, your opinion is welcome...as are those that disagree.

 

[DisneyKevin]

I think having a person of color in the podcast would be great for the podcast!!!!....so yeah, I think having that perspective may have made a conversation like that a bit more substantive...I see nothing wrong with advocating for that

No....it would be nice to have some diversity on the podcast to get a different perspective ...that is all, no more no less

As stated earlier....if you know of someone with the skills required for the next job opening, you should urge them to apply.

 

[Tonyz]

You ready for the storm, Kevin?

 

[Jfsag123]

I almost came to post a thread on this topic when I heard the podcast, then decided against it as I figured it would degenerate into insults and arguing and no one would really walk away any better - just angry. I'm encouraged to see that, while there have been some issues, that hasn't happened. Full disclosure: I am biracial (black/white), but am frequently assumed to just be white based on my appearance.

When I hear the word "colorblind" used in conversations about race I cringe. Not because I am so incredibly offended, but because I know that many people of color are likely to be and that the person using the word likely had nothing but the best of intentions. All I see are two people who want to understand each other having a breakdown in communication. We need to be patient with one another instead of biting someone's head off for making what is typically just an innocent, if uninformed, mistake. I want to commend the podcast team for being brave enough to have these kinds of conversations in the first place, as it takes a lot of guts to put yourself out there on an issue which is currently (and historically) so emotionally charged. This poster articulated my thoughts on the matter and, in my opinion, said it very well:

I used to say I was "colored blind", but after discussions with friends, reading, and listening to others, I have found that many find this approach as offensive. At first I was shocked that it was offensive. I thought I was attempting to take the correct approach: to not see the color of the person, but to just see the person. To many though, this approach seems as if we are ignoring the fact they have a different fight than me. For me to ignore the color of a person, would me that I also do not recognize that the person is treated differently by many in society.

This is why so many people of color find the word "colorblind" to be so hurtful. To deny my color is to deny the fact that my life experiences have been different from yours as a result of the difference in our race. My race is not all that I am, but it is a significant part of who I am, as the experiences I have had and witnessed around race have helped to shape the person I became. Likewise, I would never say I "don't see sexuality". I would say that I don't make judgments based on a person's sexuality, but to fail to even acknowledge that I have had different (and in several ways, privileged) experiences as a straight person in this country compared to a gay person would be insulting. Due to my racial background, I have experienced both white and black America. There is a difference. So don't judge me by my race, but also please don't fail to take it into account if you want to actually get to know and understand me.

 

[gmboy95]

A "suppression of speech"?

I find this laughable.

You said it made you uncomfortable.

I suggested that if it made you uncomfortable, you might want to not listen.

No one wants you to be uncomfortable.

You said what you felt necessary. I said what I felt necessary.

I'm uncertain as to where the "warping" took place.

Anyone interested has voiced their opinion and it's been an informative and educational conversation.

As long as DIS Board policies are followed, your opinion is welcome...as are those that disagree.

I used the term "suppression of speech" in response to your post that said folks like myself were advocating a position that people not be allowed to speak about issues of race or culture if they where not diverse.. That could not be further from the truth....I have zero problem with any discussion at any time with whatever group of people that wish to have it. However, it should also be OK to point out some areas where we could be better. Diversity can be an uncomfortable topic and thats OK....As far as sending over a qualified candidate for a job opening, I guess I am learning something new today. I was not aware that the podcast in and of itself was made up of exclusively employees of Dreams unlimited / TheDis, or that folks on it were employees. My impression was that it was a show of like minded folks that sprung from there affiliation with Dreams Unlimited?...that being said, I think it unfair that this be framed as me criticizing your hiring practices, as that certainly wasn't my intention. I hope you can see the differentiation there

 

[gmboy95]

No they should not hire based on the communities they serve..that would be discrimination if they chose not to hire someone because it didn't fit with their target or main demographic. That's like saying a company in a nice area with high income earners should only hire those that also live in that nice area and came from a high earning job or on the flip side that a company in a not so nice area with low income earners should only hire those that also live in that not so nice area and only came from a low earning job because heck both of those fit in their respective communities..that is discrimination.

If the podcast dissatisfies you in regards to diversity I suggest you either A} find a podcast(s) that have/has the diversity you want B} speak directly, not in a thread, with the persons involved with hiring and inquire as to their hiring practices if you truly believe they purposefully do not hire the way you think they should hire. I'm all for discussion absolutely but when you have internal questions on the ethical practices of those responsible for the forum you are actually discussing on it's time for a private one-on-one discussion.

Again...I have no idea how to have a discussion if the meaning and intentions of my comments are framed in this fashion...how suggesting some thought be given to more diverse opinions on a show about peoples experiences related to Disney could be interpreted as my questioning the hiring practices of anyone is beyond me and unfair. Diversity, IMO, is a subject we should always embrace. If you are referring to my post about how companies should hire; I was answering a question someone posed to me regarding hiring practices in general. We will just have to disagree on that one.

I also dont understand the whole "if it makes you uncomfortable dont listen" ....I have been listening to the podcast since its inception, and been a member of these boards since 2001. If being uncomfortable or disagreeing with something I heard or read was the measure for whether I should continue to listen or read, then i would argue neither I nor any of us would be here very long. Telling someone who gives you feedback you dont like, or that doesnt fit into your reality that they should stop watching or listening does zero to advance discussion or dialogue....its the love it or leave it argument....I love the podcast, love the disboards. I have gotten much enjoyment over the past 15 years participating. However, i do believe that I ought to be able to say some particular discussion made me uncomfortable without folks inviting me to leave

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Again...I have no idea how to have a discussion if the meaning and intentions of my comments are framed in this fashion...how suggesting some thought be given to more diverse opinions on a show about peoples experiences related to Disney could be interpreted as my questioning the hiring practices of anyone is beyond me and unfair. Diversity, IMO, is a subject we should always embrace. If you are referring to my post about how companies should hire; I was answering a question someone posed to me regarding hiring practices in general. We will just have to disagree on that one.

I also dont understand the whole "if it makes you uncomfortable dont listen" ....I have been listening to the podcast since its inception, and been a member of these boards since 2001. If being uncomfortable or disagreeing with something I heard or read was the measure for whether I should continue to listen or read, then i would argue neither I nor any of us would be here very long. Telling someone who gives you feedback you dont like, or that doesnt fit into your reality that they should stop watching or listening does zero to advance discussion or dialogue....its the love it or leave it argument....I love the podcast, love the disboards. I have gotten much enjoyment over the past 15 years participating. However, i do believe that I ought to be able to say some particular discussion made me uncomfortable without folks inviting me to leave

I didn't say if watching the podcasts makes you uncomfortable..that is your terminology that you have used on this thread and another one as well. I said if the podcast disatisfies you. This whole "if this makes you uncomfortable..{insert things like "then you're part of the problem, then that's a good things, etc}" is all the rage right now. No the podcast doesn't make me uncomfortable, no the hard topics that sometimes get talked about on the podcast and on this forum do not make me uncomfortable. As I said before little actually offends me and the reason why I said I was offended earlier is because you said the real problem from the podcast is that there is a group of "white folks in a room discussing race issues"..I don't see them as a group of white folks..I see them as a group of human beings which is how I responded again when the other poster described a member of the podcast as a "white southern woman".

There is actually diversity on the podcast but it's not appearantly the diversity you are looking for..which is based on race. I suggested you speak directly with the powers that be regarding your concerns. You are absolutelly allowed to have concerns on this topic but IMO it would be far more productive to actually have a private one on one discussion. Also generally when I've seen "lack of racial diversity" because really that is what people mean when they say lack of diversity here considering they are a diverse group otherwise the answer given is..if you know someone who is qualified....

In any case I'm finished sparring off with you. We don't need to see eye to eye by any means but we also don't need to continue to go back and forth when it's obvious we don't have the same outlook after sharing our opinions. But please have a good rest of your day.