CIA 'running secret terror jails'

[djcruz4fun]

That may be your opinion, but it's 100% wrong. As Mom pointed out, the bipartisan 911 Commision rated our terror preparedness an F, with many safety mechanisms not kicking in until President Bush has long been out of office in the next decade. As far as rembering 911...um, I was here when the Twin Towers came down, I drive by Ground Zero almost daily, and I'm quite aware of what happened. I just have a problem with this Administration selling American's soul by making torture and the bullying of our allies commomplace. We all should expect more out of our leaders!!

Forget about mom's opinion, and get your own opinion.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

Forget about mom's opinion, and get your own opinion.

Wow!! Incredible debate point!!

FYI, it's not mine...or Mom's opinion...it the opinion of the bipartisan 9-11 Commission. Sorry if they are telling you something that you don't want to hear, but a facts a fact. You might want to pick up a newspaper tomorrow morning and read all about it. It's no wonder that President Bush didn't want this commission set up in the first place...he didn't want America to see that outside of the invasion of Iraq and taking away nail files from little old ladies on commercial flights, he hasn't done jack to fix any of our weaknesses. Of course, the Bush apologists will always have some sort of positive spin on it...like "Hey...an F's not so bad...it could be an F minus!!" or some kind of drivel like that. As long as America continues to lower it's expectations of leadership, President Bush has nothing to lose...

 

[frozone]

Vengence? I call it self defence, I hope the next daisy cutter they see detonating will make them think twice about killing any more Americans. We have been attacked over and over, turning the other cheek didn't work for the past 30+ years sow now we'll see how the sword works.

And are you ready to pick up that sword? Or would you be willing to inflict torture?

 

[lyeag]

Funny, when they strike again, and they WILL strike again, they aren't going to care who they kill. How will you feel if it is in your backyard? The bleeding heart liberals aren't going to be spared by the terrorists. Face to face with these people, your compassion for their rights won't mean squat to them.


Face reality. They kill innocents. Muslim, Christian, Jew, and gender, any age- it doesn't matter. History of these groups prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt. They sacrifice their own family members for their cause. It's called being fanatics. You cannot reason with them, debate them, or rationalize with them. You can either appease them or kill them. I prefer not to appease them.

 

[frozone]

Funny, when they strike again, and they WILL strike again, they aren't going to care who they kill. How will you feel if it is in your backyard? The bleeding heart liberals aren't going to be spared by the terrorists. Face to face with these people, your compassion for their rights won't mean squat to them.


Face reality. They kill innocents. Muslim, Christian, Jew, and gender, any age- it doesn't matter. History of these groups prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt. They sacrifice their own family members for their cause. It's called being fanatics. You cannot reason with them, debate them, or rationalize with them. You can either appease them or kill them. I prefer not to appease them.

You all have to realize that this isn't about protecting the rights of terrorists. This is a really short-sighted argument. It's about the international credibility of the U.S. government. This is an age of globalization and we can't isolate ourselves. We are a civilized nation and need to behave as such, or we will write ourselves out of the global economy.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

Vengence? I call it self defence, I hope the next daisy cutter they see detonating will make them think twice about killing any more Americans. We have been attacked over and over, turning the other cheek didn't work for the past 30+ years sow now we'll see how the sword works.

Amen!

 

[lyeag]

You all have to realize that this isn't about protecting the rights of terrorists. This is a really short-sighted argument. It's about the international credibility of the U.S. government. This is an age of globalization and we can't isolate ourselves. We are a civilized nation and need to behave as such, or we will write ourselves out of the global economy.

You can call it whatever you want. What will globalization mean if we have already been decimated????? We should worry more about what others think of us than protecting ourselves???? O yeah, the terrorists will look up to us just like the rest of the civilized world will?

 

[frozone]

You can call it whatever you want. What will globalization mean if we have already been decimated????? We should worry more about what others think of us than protecting ourselves???? O yeah, the terrorists will look up to us just like the rest of the civilized world will?

You call it "worring about what others think of us", I call it diplomacy, and believe it or not diplomacy IS about protecting ourselves. The world is a really big place and we can't fight all of it.

It's really astounding to me that people here aren't willing to think beyond 4 year election cycles. The U.S. is currently laying the groundwork for an international policy that, in the long run, could be immensely more destructive to our citizens and our way of life.

I leave you to your fantasies of violence and vengence.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

I leave you to your fantasies of violence and vengence.

And you can retire to your fantasies of appeasement and surrender.

True diplomacy is not an "either/or" situation. It is knowing when to use the appropriate resources at the appropriate time. Sometimes discussion will work; other times action is essential.

 

[TnKrBeLlA012]

Funny, when they strike again, and they WILL strike again, they aren't going to care who they kill. How will you feel if it is in your backyard? The bleeding heart liberals aren't going to be spared by the terrorists. Face to face with these people, your compassion for their rights won't mean squat to them.


Face reality. They kill innocents. Muslim, Christian, Jew, and gender, any age- it doesn't matter. History of these groups prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt. They sacrifice their own family members for their cause. It's called being fanatics. You cannot reason with them, debate them, or rationalize with them. You can either appease them or kill them. I prefer not to appease them.

Very well said! When you let your guard down or think to rationalize with them that is when they strike to kill. I'm glad we have a leader who will not bow down to these killers. The bleeding heart liberals are laughed at by these terrorists. Just like Saddam. He wants the world to see the bad Americans lied and invaded his country. The worst part of this is " Dumb Americans" give him more fuel.

 

[CheshireVal]

Ah, this is one of the debate cases this year (for high school debate). Straight from the evidence files:

IN SPITE OF ITS QUESTIONABLE LEGALITY, THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION HAS GIVEN THE CIA THE AUTHORITY TO USE EXTRAORDINARY RENDITION, WHICH IS THE PRACTICE OF KIDNAPPING SUSPECTED TERRORISTS AND SENDING THEM WITHOUT TRIAL TO FOREIGN PRISONS WHERE THEY WILL BE TORTURED.

The Washington Times, March 21, 2005 (“Torture Doublespeak,” p.L/N)

“The war against terrorism,” Mr. Markey continued, “is a war against those who engage in torture. If we fight our enemy using the same inhumane and morally bankrupt techniques that we are trying to stop, we will simply become what we have beheld. I call on President Bush to stop the outsourcing of torture immediately, in deed as well as word.” On ABC-TV’s “World News Tonight,” Mr. Markey said hopefully: “Like Abu Ghraib, it took a while for the outrage to build. The more the American people find out we are allowing other countries to torture in our name, there is going to be an outcry in this country.” I am listening hard, but I don’t hear that outcry yet, certainly not among the Republican leadership in Congress, which refuses to authorize an independent investigation of the CIA’s “renditions.” One of the CIA’s jets transporting suspected terrorists made 10 trips to Uzbekistan. Craig Murray, the former British ambassador to that country, told Mr. Pelley about the techniques of Uzbek interrogators: “drowning and suffocation, rape was used... also the insertion of limbs in boiling liquid... it’s quite common.” Mr. Murray also told Brian Ross of ABC News that he received photos of one prisoner who was actually boiled to death. That corpse may not have been a person the CIA kidnapped, but how do we know? In a March 6 New York Times story on these horrifying renditions, a CIA official “would not discuss any legal directive under which the agency operated, but said that the CIA has existing authorities to lawfully conduct these operations.” The authority came directly from the president in a Sept. 17, 2001 “memorandum of notification.” Then why doesn’t the president let us and Congress see this directive? Meanwhile, Fox News reports that Attorney General Alberto Gonzales says “the United States would never send terrorism suspects to countries where they would be tortured.” But he did admit that once they had been sent, “the U.S. government didn’t have control over how they were tortured.” Isn’t this manipulation of words what George Orwell chillingly called “doublespeak”?

 

[What the Heck]

Ok, I'll play - who is Mr. Markey?

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

So the F grades from the 9-11 Commission mean nothing to those of you who so strongly support protecting America at any cost? I just don't get it...not even one of you mentioned the bipartisan report in your posts. It just goes to show that a vast majority of you are more concerned with protecting the boy King and his flunkies than standing up for your so-called principles. Keep the bombs dropping and "Long live the King!!"

 

[What the Heck]

So the F grades from the 9-11 Commission mean nothing to those of you who so strongly support protecting America at any cost? I just don't get it...not even one of you mentioned the bipartisan report in your posts. It just goes to show that a vast majority of you are more concerned with protecting the boy King and his flunkies than standing up for your so-called principles. Keep the bombs dropping and "Long live the King!!"

For some reason I'm thinking of "How I came to Love the Bomb"

To me the F grades are bothersome, and they need to improve. Yes I wish we had a better president (Reagon in his first term would be very nice), but I've been wishing for a better president since 1992.

 

[CheshireVal]

Ok, I'll play - who is Mr. Markey?

Edward Markey, a congressman trying to stop the practice of extraordinary renditions.

 

[What the Heck]

Thanks Val.

 

[dcentity2000]

I'm back!

Just wanted to ask: why would anyone support a tactic that is Stalin-esque at best in the name of a "war on terror" that seemed not to popularily exist prior to 9/11 despite a long and bloodied history?



Rich::

 

[lyeag]

I'm back!

Just wanted to ask: why would anyone support a tactic that is Stalin-esque at best in the name of a "war on terror" that seemed not to popularily exist prior to 9/11 despite a long and bloodied history?



Rich::

Because I like breathing and would like to keep doing it for as long as possible.

Really though, have these terror groups stopped when we didn't respond strongly to them? USS Cole comes to mind. Has tempered responses gained their respect? Has it lessoned their desire to attack those they differ with? Hardly. They attack soft targets with no compassion, and I am not just speaking of the US. I really can't say for certainty what is happening in these jails, nor can anyone on these boards, but I will say that whatever it is, if it has saved innocent lives anywhere, then I can accept it.

Don't think for one minute that the outcry of people in this country who hate Bush will protect anyone from them taking an opportunity to attack.


Ideals are a great thing to strive for as much as possible. We should all aim high, no doubt about that, but sometimes reality smacks you in the face and you do what must be done. It is called survival.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

So the F grades from the 9-11 Commission mean nothing to those of you who so strongly support protecting America at any cost? I just don't get it...not even one of you mentioned the bipartisan report in your posts. It just goes to show that a vast majority of you are more concerned with protecting the boy King and his flunkies than standing up for your so-called principles. Keep the bombs dropping and "Long live the King!!"

Why mention a report that has the sole purpose of bashing the country and is simply another fine example of what Charles Krauthammer calls the "Bush Derangement Syndrome" (the acute onset of paranoia in otherwise normal people in reaction to the policies, the presidency - nay - the very existence of George W. Bush)? I know that many in the MSM loved this report because it gave them yet another tidbit of bad news to report. It'd been a tough few days for them what with the economy roaring and Iraqi elections near to find some bit of bad/sad news to glom over.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

Why mention a report that has the sole purpose of bashing the country and is simply another fine example of what Charles Krauthammer calls the "Bush Derangement Syndrome" (the acute onset of paranoia in otherwise normal people in reaction to the policies, the presidency - nay - the very existence of George W. Bush)? I know that many in the MSM loved this report because it gave them yet another tidbit of bad news to report. It'd been a tough few days for them what with the economy roaring and Iraqi elections near to find some bit of bad/sad news to glom over.

You have got to be kidding me! I'll tell you what T_M, for what you lack in principle, you more than make up for in blind loyalty. To paraphrase a poster from the past, you really can't make this stuff up!!!