Christians suing for the right to be intolerant

[Saxsoon]

I apoligize, I was caught up in the moment. I am sorry for what I said, please forgive me.

I am not trying to flame bait here, but I must ask, why do they continue to do those things if they are that firm in their belief.

 

[VickiVM]

I apoligize, I was caught up in the moment. I am sorry for what I said, please forgive me.

I am not trying to flame bait here, but I must ask, why do they continue to do those things if they are that firm in their belief.

Even Christians falter and sin (GASP!!!) I know because I'm that kind of Christian. I am no perfect than the next person - gay, hetero, Jewish, Christian, etc.

As Christians we get nowhere judging and condemning one another. That just doesn't wash with Jesus' new commandment to love your neighbor as yourself. Jesus knew that the sinner is more receptive to love and acceptance. That doesn't imply that we have to embrace choices others make. Just that through us, we can reflect God's love and acceptance and impact our world more effectively.


So when our inclination as Christians is to judge behavior and choices, I have to stop and look at my own life and my own faith walk to put myself in check. My poor choices as a Christian are no worse that anyone else's. And my God's forgiveness and mercy is available to everyone. My purpose is to walk in my faith and be an outward reflection of God's love.

So, back on topic - Even though this young lady may have good intentions (I have to give her the benefit of the doubt) about how to express her faith, I know that there are way more Christians and non-Christians alike that feel that love and kindness is a more effective approach to changing attitudes.

I wish you all a wonderful Easter weekend.

Shalom,
Vicki

 

[ead79]

I was just thinking the same thing of your responses towards me.

The statement was quite innocent. It said "many", not "all", and your repeated questioning of me reeks pretty badly given I never say all.

All one has to do is look at the stats everybody gives form another direction and you see it must be true. Those stats of how many Christians there are cannot be disconnected from the stats you don't want to be true. For example, the stats on the number of unwed early 20 mothers is staggering. Given the stats, the majority of them have to be people who would check off Christian on those surveys.

There was also that recent Girls Gone Wild thread. Once again those high precentages don't go away, in fact if we are talking a Southern beach, it's likely a large percentage went back to church on Sunday and kept their vacation activities secret.

And then you have the many, many, church retreats me and my cousins have been to. What do you think is the draw for MANY of those young people? There were some 100% "good" people there, but there were MANY people doing things they wouldn't have wanted to get caught doing.

I’m sorry that you feel that way, cardaway, and I mean that sincerely. I am not trying to bait you in any way. I just feel that sometimes (and both sides of an argument are guilty of this) there is a tendency to paint with a very broad brush.

You are 100% correct that you did not say that all conservative Christians are out doing these things. We’ll just have to agree to disagree over whether or not most are doing it.

In terms of the statistics, I do have a thought about that as well. Given that in America Christianity is the majority religion in terms of people’s backgrounds and exposure, it would make sense to me that most people would attest to being Christians if surveyed. However, that doesn’t mean that they are necessarily actively participating in the religion. For instance, if the survey was taken in India instead of the US, the “default” answer would likely be Hinduism due to people’s heritage and backgrounds. Now, let me be clear that I’m not saying that these people are not Christians (that is between them and God, not them and me), just that perhaps that is more of a default answer here in the US, as in people who are not actively another faith or atheist or agnostic might default answer Christian as their religion.

I’m certainly not denying that there are plenty of people who are conservative Christians who make mistakes and still show up at church on Sunday. I myself am one of them. I do feel very bothered by those who try to “ride the fence” by showing up at church then actively choosing again and again to get drunk or sleep around. However, church is a hospital for sinners, not a hotel for saints. I want everyone to be welcomed at church, even if they spent their spring break doing things that would make most people faint. I certainly don’t doubt your experiences with youth events, but mine were very different. Most of the kids at my church were wholesome, good kids. I realize it’s not that way everywhere.

 

[cardaway]

I apoligize, I was caught up in the moment. I am sorry for what I said, please forgive me.

I am not trying to flame bait here, but I must ask, why do they continue to do those things if they are that firm in their belief.

All sins can be forgiven.

 

[cardaway]

I’m sorry that you feel that way, cardaway, and I mean that sincerely. I am not trying to bait you in any way. I just feel that sometimes (and both sides of an argument are guilty of this) there is a tendency to paint with a very broad brush.

And many times (this case as the perfect example) the poster didn't pick up a brush, the person responding put it there.

You are 100% correct that you did not say that all conservative Christians are out doing these things. We’ll just have to agree to disagree over whether or not most are doing it.

One last time... the word used was MANY.

However, that doesn’t mean that they are necessarily actively participating in the religion. For instance, if the survey was taken in India instead of the US, the “default” answer would likely be Hinduism due to people’s heritage and backgrounds. Now, let me be clear that I’m not saying that these people are not Christians (that is between them and God, not them and me), just that perhaps that is more of a default answer here in the US, as in people who are not actively another faith or atheist or agnostic might default answer Christian as their religion.

That is exactly the way that reads. Who can say, other than the actual person, who is actively participating and who is not? That attitude is one of the reasons MANY people (including me) now check a different box on surveys.

 

[Sylvester McBean]

I wish you all a wonderful Easter weekend.
i

easter's this weekend? crap, I need to go buy eggs to color.

 

[ead79]

And many times (this case as the perfect example) the poster didn't pick up a brush, the person responding put it there.

Well, we’ll just have to agree to disagree about this point. I know that you think I read with a broad brush, and I feel that sometimes you paint with one. I think we just see things through our own unique “filters” when it comes to this.

One last time... the word used was MANY.

Oops, you are right, the word was many. I still disagree that it’s “many” conservative Christians, but this is another area we’ve just had very different experiences with. I’m truly saddened that the church(es) you went to had youth groups with so many issues. I know it happens, and it makes me sad/disappointed.

That is exactly the way that reads. Who can say, other than the actual person, who is actively participating and who is not? That attitude is one of the reasons MANY people (including me) now check a different box on surveys.

I’ll be honest—I don’t understand how my post reads that way at all. I expressly said that only God and that person know whether or not they are sincere in their faith and that it’s not my job to determine whether they are or not. I was merely pointing out that a person who has never set foot in a church of any type might identify themselves as Christian in a survey since that is statistically likely to be their frame of reference in the US. I was not making judgments about whether or not their faith is sincere, whether or not they have ever entered a church.

I know there are people who are anxious to condemn others and point the finger rather than focusing on their own lives, and I try very hard to never be or represent myself as one of those people. Please don’t lump me into a group with those people when I am careful not to have that same attitude.

 

[cardaway]

I know there are people who are anxious to condemn others and point the finger rather than focusing on their own lives, and I try very hard to never be or represent myself as one of those people. Please don’t lump me into a group with those people when I am careful not to have that same attitude.

I "lump" you based on your posts and they read exactly like that. Usually preceeded with a statment saying you don't do isoemthing, followed by you doing it.

Feel free to disagree, but I make sure I use the word that best represents the brush I want to use. Like this time when I used many and it wasn't on me that people read something else.

Until this thread I had left you alone for a reason. Not sure why every one of you posts has to end with a backhanded shot at me so it's obvious it's best to just keep our distance.

 

[dadto1]

Until this thread I had left you alone for a reason. Not sure why every one of you posts has to end with a backhanded shot at me so it's obvious it's best to just keep our distance.

Once again hey pot, its the kettle!

 

[ead79]

PM on the way. I honestly don’t mean to offend you at all. Truly.

 

[cardaway]

Once again hey pot, its the kettle!

Yes, we see you taking another shot.

 

[dadto1]

Yes, we see you taking another shot.

Well this is the way I see it. Youself and several other posters on this thread take liberty to insult, degrade, and pretty much talk down to other posters. However if anyone so much as implies disagreement with your opinions they are intolerant barbarians. I find it quite hilarious!

 

[ead79]

I sent a PM to you, cardaway.

I did want to publicly post an apology for any back-handed shots. I know you have nothing but my word on this, but I never intended anything I said to be a back-handed shot at you or anyone else. I am so sorry if I came across this way, as it was 100% not my intent.

 

[Sylvester McBean]

Well this is the way I see it. Youself and several other posters on this thread take liberty to insult, degrade, and pretty much talk down to other posters. However if anyone so much as implies disagreement with your opinions they are intolerant barbarians. I find it quite hilarious!

well, we need to defend ourselves, God isn't going to...

We are without God.

"Whosoever ... abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God." -- 2 John 9

We are all antichrists.

"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist." -- 2 John 7

We should be shunned. Neither marry nor be friends with us.

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? ... Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord." -- 2 Cor.6:14-17

We should be killed.

"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you ... Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die." -- Dt.13:6-10

 

[cardaway]

Well this is the way I see it. Youself and several other posters on this thread take liberty to insult, degrade, and pretty much talk down to other posters. However if anyone so much as implies disagreement with your opinions they are intolerant barbarians. I find it quite hilarious!

Yes, me and those "several others" have to actually speak for ourselves rather than hide behind a book and take every shot with a well selected bible quote. They can say we said some things and turn around and say all they did was quote the bible. The bible quoting is seen as equally insulting, degrading, and bascially talking down to the peoople being responded to, believe it.

 

[dadto1]

Yes, me and those "several others" have to actually speak for ourselves rather than hide behind a book and take every shot with a well selected bible quote. They can say we said some things and turn around and say all they did was quote the bible. The bible quoting is seen as equally insulting, degrading, and bascially talking down to the peoople being responded to, believe it.

 

[Disney Doll]

Now kids...paly nice or you're going to get the thread locked.

Not that it shouldn't be...we have beaten the horse and it is dead and decomposing at this point.

I am not sure why we continue these religious discussions, as they always degenerate into this.

One would think that by now the non-believers would realize that the believers believe no matter what, and the believers would realize that the non-believers won't believe no matter what.

I guess that makes us all stupid, huh? Fighting a fight that can't be won.

 

[arminnie]

Obviously , we are not only defined by who we sleep with ! And I hope that people dont define me by my sex life. But being gay is more than just your sex life

That is the type of opinion that comes when people only equate homosexuality with a mere sexual act.

It's not. It's a way of life and loving that should be embraced rather than discriminated against.

I truly am not trying to be contentious here, but I really don't know what you mean when you say being gay is more than who you sleep with. My thoughts are that's all that it is - period. I don't really see how you are any different from heteros.

I lived in the San Francisco area for about 20 years total. I worked at a company that had a large number of gays and knew several others socially.

The people that I knew who were gay were very much individuals. Really the only thing that I think was different about them was who they picked for dating and settling down with.

I know gays who are in long-term relationships, gays who date around a lot, and gays who don't date much at all - pretty much the way I would describe heteros. Some are parents and grandparents - some aren't.

I know some men who are on the effeminate side and some women who are pretty butch - but guess what not all of them are gay.

Perhaps some gays prefer the company and friendship of only other gay people (discriminatory probably), and that might make them different. But most gays socialize, work and interact with straights pretty often.

I've been at a few parties where I was the only straight person there, but I don't think there was any secret ritual they didn't perform that night because of my presence.

What is this "way of life" that I am not recognizing? If you talking about having to deal with discrimination then you are talking about how other people are different (not in a good way) not how you yourselves are different.

 

[toto2]

All your saying is true and exactly what I mean ! It just that some people seem to think that being gay is only the sex part , and that if you just dont act on the "sex"urges , then everything will be allright. Who you decide to spend your life with is s big deal for everyone , gay , staight and everything else , and the sexual act has little to do with it. If it would be just the sex , most gay men and women would spend therelife with the opposing sex , but we do fall in love with some one of our own gender. We seek intimacy with our own gender. Anf if an heterosexual person tells me that the only reason they are with there spouse is sex...

 

[arminnie]

All your saying is true and exactly what I mean ! It just that some people seem to think that being gay is only the sex part , and that if you just dont act on the "sex"urges , then everything will be allright. Who you decide to spend your life with is s big deal for everyone , gay , staight and everything else , and the sexual act has little to do with it. If it would be just the sex , most gay men and women would spend therelife with the opposing sex , but we do fall in love with some one of our own gender. We seek intimacy with our own gender. Anf if an heterosexual person tells me that the only reason they are with there spouse is sex...

Thank you for your reply - and I think I understand what you are saying. I thought you were saying that you were inherently different from non-gays, and I couldn't agree with that.