Chivalry is dead.

[bluejasmine]

I noticed that last yr, I make my teens (boy and girl) get up for ppl with small children or older ppl. It all goes to how you were raised Im a firm believer..

 

[si-am]

I really am surprised at the responses here. I was actually frightened one time while I was standing on a rocking bus from DTD back to the BC at night with a sleeping baby in my arms.

It didn't occur to me to wait for another bus or rent a car. I suppose that is an option. Honestly it's not something I ever think about unless I am actually IN the situation, and then I am always surprised.

I think "got there first" is a fine sentiment as long as you aren't dealing with a NEED and I'm sorry, but I think the little ones need some extra care and compassion. I don't care if they're mine or someone else's.

And you often can't tell when you're in a line boarding a bus jsut how crowded it actually will be.

Now I just know not to expect it. I still am pleased when I do see concern for other people in action - women with children, the elderly, small children, the disabled or injured. I just think "hey lady, you should have rented a car if you wanted a seat" or "if you bring your kids on your vacation, that's your problem" are a pretty sad reflection on our society.

But if it's a NEED, then you need to make accommodations for yourself; don't expect other people to do it for you, right thing or not.

If I had a baby, I would think ahead, before my trip, about the buses and how I would handle a standing-up situation. I think once you have kids, the carefree days of not thinking ahead on vacations are kind of over. Until they're older, anyway.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

As a healthy woman in my 30s I don't expect anyone to give up their seat for me. We've all been in the parks all, we're all tired. Even if I had kids I wouldn't expect it. Traveling with little ones who need strollers and fall asleep and have to be held was your choice. That sounds really harsh when I type it, but it is true. Wait till your kids are old enuff that they will remember the trip in the first place and you won't have that problem, lol. My parents didn't take us till we were 9 and 12. No strollers, no babes in arms. And I still don't remember 99% of that trip.

I will get up and so will my DH for an elderly person or handicapped in some way, I'm not rude. (DH is nicer than me, btw!) And I've even gotten softer in my old age and may even get up for some one with baby in arms, but I don't see that it's fair or the right thing to do. I like chivalry - doing the right thing. But entitlement is another thing all together. My best friend's hubby fusses at me if I get out of the car before he can open the door. Drives me nuts. I can get out quicker myself than waiting for him to "let" her out first, then opening my door. But I like them both, so I put up with it, .

WOW, this thread had degraded quickly. Some of my best memories are of when my kids were young at WDW. My youngest had his first haircut at the Harmony Barbershop. My oldest two were 5 and 3 on their first visit and were in awe of everything at WDW. Nothing in the world can replace those memories that my wife and I have of those visits with our young kids!! It is harsh of you to suggest that you should wait until your kids are old enough to remember it. What about the parents memories?

BTW -- I'm glad you're getting soft in your old age and would consider giving up a seat to a parent holding a sleeping child. For a moment, I did think you were simply rude.

Agree, get a car or at least wait for another bus. BTW driver was totally off line or first day at work.

As I mentioned, I have heard many times on Disney buses a recording that states that available seating should be given to the elder, pregnant women, young children and those that need it. Obviously, the bus driver heard it as well and was following the instructions because there were too many people like you on the bus.

Waiting for a bus doesn't always work. As I have also mentioned, sometimes that bus arrives full of people already and you may have to wait 20, 40 or 80 minutes for a bus with a seat available. All waiting does is guarantees that you'll stand in line for another 20 minutes holding a sleeping child. Plus, if you're at DTD you have to just mob onto the bus and pray you even get a spot on the bus itself. A seat is even more of a miracle as there is no queue for the buses at DTD.

Sometimes simple logic like what you espoused doesn't always mirror reality.

 

[si-am]

As I mentioned, I have heard many times on Disney buses a recording that states that available seating should be given to the elder, pregnant women, young children and those that need it. Obviously, the bus driver heard it as well and was following the instructions because there were too many people like you on the bus.

I have never heard such a recording. If it's there, it must be brand new. I know some seats are labeled "reserved" for wheelchair bound or ECV guests, but I've never seen anything about elderly or pregnant women or kids.

How do you define elderly? Or pregnant for that matter? Or those who otherwise need it? If I'm 2 months pregnant, can I demand a seat?

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

I don't think polite manners are gender specific; I think it's need based, not sex based.

If somebody needs a seat, I give it to them.

That being said, we avoid the busses like the plague and stick with our car and the boats...

 

[1hero2princesses]

I can't look at these threads anymore. Sorry but some people just don't seem to have much empathy. To the poster who just told me "I should have rented a car " - I hadn't been to Disney in about 12 years when I went last year. Didn't know exactly how many seats were on a bus. Didn't know how crowded it was going to be. Had no idea how crazy the lines might be. I have learned a lot since then. We saved for 8 years for that trip. We could not afford the extra money for a rental van to fit the 5 of us. As I mentioned I would have gotten off if I could, but I could not. In retrospect we would have sent people ahead of us but in the craziness I didn't count how many had gotten on. We did not do it on purpose. I am happy that someone helped us and in the future I will attempt to help others whenever I can. I call it being nice. Years ago I was carjacked - in full view of about 10 witnesses. Only one young college girl asked me if I needed help as I was screaming and kicking and fighting as I was being beat up. She ran to call 911. I may be alive today because she cared enough to help. I have said many times I will do the same if ever given the chance. I will, if I need to, risk my life for someone else. Someone risked their safety for me and I won't forget it. It is a tough world and we all need to do things to help each other, some may be small, others may be big. This year we have been lucky enough to go again. My kids are a little bigger now and can sit on a seat together. If need be, I will stand and will be happy to give my seat to anyone who might need it male or female, young or old. I am healthy 41 year old female and I think maybe we need a new version of "chivalry" - one that says give up your seat, open a door etc. for those who need help - whomever they are.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

This is a weird thread to read. Maybe its a cultural thing (or maybe its because I'm one of those non-lady scary feminists ) but its not a thing here in the part of Canada I live in to give up your seat to someone just because they're female.

Myself and my friends have been taught to be polite to everyone, gender has nothing to do with it. You see an older person, you offer your seat. You're sitting in the reserved seating, you give up your seat. A parent with children, you give up your seat.

I would never expect someone to give up their seat to me just because I have ovaries.

So maybe the reason some people don't get up for able looking women is based on where they come from.

Also, to Indiana Rose Lee This isn't meant to be flaming, so I hope you don't take it as such (its just a personal area of interest) however, this opens a bit of a can of worms. If you're going to get in depth in this area, unfortunately women are still paid less than men for comparable work even when you're not averaging across all employment. You also have to look at things like historicaly lower wages for traditionally female jobs, various cultural/educational attitudes that push women out of certain fields, hiring practices, etc. Its complicated stuff.

Those stats were made up using the information for all available jobs. What scews them is that many jobs that attract more men pay more, such as garbage collectors, and the small percentage of those in the top 2% of the workforce. Currently more women are going into fields traditionally held by men (science, engineering) due to biased educational practices, and funding, entering college at greater numbers than men, etc. I think i can work through all that complicated stuff, lol. Well, if some dumb old female with a PhD in Sociology can figure them out.

 

[SanFranciscan]

I know me and my family always give up seats to people that need them so its not completely dead.Though sometime you never know what a person wants.Some ladies hate it if you show them chivalry.Why are they so confusing

Pecobill, you have my deepest of sympathies if you are a man treated badly by a woman you helped with a pure heart. To be honest I am suspicious myself of any stranger, male or female, who is too friendly because we do live in a world full of hustlers and conns who have learned that the way to close in on people is to be too polite to spook them immediately. I am sorry, but my guard is doubly high around men.

I don't drink alcohol, but here is an example of gender relations. The man who says that he wants to buy a woman a drink says that he is being a gentleman. Would he go into the aisle of a supermarket and offer to buy that same woman some some produce so that she would like him instead of that intoxicating substance that could cloud her judgment? Of course not. As sexist as it may sound, who is that liquor he wants her to drink really being bought for?

Since we have talked considerably about seats on a bus here, I have found that if a man offers a woman his seat it is not because he thinks she needs it. It is because she is attractive and he plans to stay near her and see how far he can get with her in exchange for having offered his seat, whether or not she takes it. If a woman is rude to you for offering her a seat, she has probably encountered such a man at least once and does not want to repeat that scenario again.

I got rather snippity myself with a man who followed me off of a streetcar (yeah, as a matter of fact, I did stand the whole way) after he persisted in trying to make conversation I was not interested in. I did not want an escort home. I wanted to lose this guy before he found out where I lived because I could tell that he was so hormonal that I would prefer that he go call a professional escort for himself than keep any pretense of caring whether I got where I was going safe.

Chivalry is not what we do but the motive for which we do it.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

I have never heard such a recording. If it's there, it must be brand new. I know some seats are labeled "reserved" for wheelchair bound or ECV guests, but I've never seen anything about elderly or pregnant women or kids.

How do you define elderly? Or pregnant for that matter? Or those who otherwise need it? If I'm 2 months pregnant, can I demand a seat?

Ummm...pregnant means pregnant, perhaps.

 

[Spoodleink]

Another hot topic today!!!

Have you read other threads on this topic? Those men and boys had every right to sit there as they were there first. They all had silent disabilities. Oh, the mom holding the child should have waited until the next bus and should stop giving everyone seated the evil eye.

Seriously, 90% of the time we witnessed this, someone offered the Mom (or Dad) the seat. Often times, I saw the seat turned down. There were other times, where I could tell that someone really needed a seat but everyone seated just stared at their shoes. Our boys did give up their seats (as did I) many times. I have yet to find a reasonable argument for not giving up a seat to someone who clearly needs it, but only if you're capable. I even heard an announcement a few times on the buses that available seating should be given to the elderly, pregnant women, small children and others who need it. I know there are legitimate reasons for specific individuals not giving up a seat, but an entire bus? Waiting for the next bus doesn't work many times. I can't tell you how many times we waited for a bus and when it arrived, all the seats were already taken. Just because you were at the TL busstop with a small child and not at DTD, does it mean you don't have a right to a seat? Plus, we generally waited up to 20 minutes for a bus and we weren't going to wait another 20 minutes to take a chance on an elusive seat. I'm sure that the Mom (or Dad) holding a small sleeping child just wanted to get back to the resort. Finally, I never saw the Mom (or Dad) holding a child ask for a seat or give anyone the evil eye. I think those who think people are giving you the evil eye have a guilty conscience.

Flame on.

I give people the evil eye all the time.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

Actually there is enough male samples stored away that if all men went sterile today, it would be 100's of years before there would no longer be children, but that's not here nor there

So, just kill off the little boys, or physically castrate them? Might as well, since so many want to emotionally do so.

 

[si-am]

Ummm...pregnant means pregnant, perhaps.

So, if I get a positive pregnancy test a week before my trip, I am entitled to a seat automatically, just based on that? Cool!

 

[Scurvy]

I really am surprised at the responses here. I was actually frightened one time while I was standing on a rocking bus from DTD back to the BC at night with a sleeping baby in my arms.

It didn't occur to me to wait for another bus or rent a car. I suppose that is an option. Honestly it's not something I ever think about unless I am actually IN the situation, and then I am always surprised.

I can definitely understand that you might not realize that sometimes the buses only have standing room if it's your first trip to Disney World. A bus ride holding a sleeping baby while standing up wouldn't be something I'd be comfortable doing - I can see why you'd be afraid. I think in a case like that I would try to get off the bus, and failing in that I'd ask if anyone would mind giving me their seat. However, after that first ride you know that there might be no place to sit. In that case, if you feel it's unsafe to stand while holding your child, then I think it is your responsibility to find another option that will work for you. Maybe you could rent a car, maybe you could drive your own car, maybe call a cab, or wait for the next bus or hang around until the lines die down. There are lots of options available - but I don't think it's reasonable (or realistic) to consider it an option to crowd onto an already full bus and expect to take someone else's seat.

I think "got there first" is a fine sentiment as long as you aren't dealing with a NEED and I'm sorry, but I think the little ones need some extra care and compassion. I don't care if they're mine or someone else's.

And you often can't tell when you're in a line boarding a bus jsut how crowded it actually will be.

If can be hard sometimes to estimate right when it comes to the number of people in line versus the number of seats. I have found that it tends to work better if I hang back if there's any doubt that I will get a seat. I'd rather be one of the first people on the bus than one of the last - then there isn't a question of whether I will be able to find an open seat. Of course on my last couple of trips we didn't rely on the buses for just this reason - we wanted to be sure of having seats and so we drove.

If you have a need for a seat, it really is your responsibility to deal with it. Maybe everyone on the bus has a need also. You have no way of knowing, and you can't assume that they do not.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

So, if I get a positive pregnancy test a week before my trip, I am entitled to a seat automatically, just based on that? Cool!

Actually, you owuld be more than welcome to our seats. I was sicker than a dog my first three months. If someone looked me in the eye, and said they were in need, then I would assume it to be so. And, far too often the timing was random. And the exhaustion was at its worst then, also. Come to think of it, I'd even let you out of line to go pee! That was a drag those first few months, also.

 

[KellyNY]

Obviously, the bus driver heard it as well and was following the instructions because there were too many people like you on the bus.

First of all, please do not make personal attacks at me with yours "people like you", OK?

Second, I always wait for another bus if it is full so I know exactly how long it takes.

And last but not least, it is your choice to wear off your kid in park so he/she is falling asleep. It is nice if someone will give a seat but do not expect it, no way.

 

[Disneyadore]

I was raised to stand up and give me seat to some one who needed it.
I saw many many "children" from 6 till .............. taking up a seat in the buses,playing with there DS ore other computer game.
Not one of them gave their place to a elderly person,a pregnant lady or a mum with a little child in her arms. Not one of the parents told there children to stand up,I just saw dirty looks stating :"we payed a lot for this place".

If this is the random standard children are raised I wonder how our society will look in a few years.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

I really am surprised at the responses here. I was actually frightened one time while I was standing on a rocking bus from DTD back to the BC at night with a sleeping baby in my arms.

It didn't occur to me to wait for another bus or rent a car. I suppose that is an option. Honestly it's not something I ever think about unless I am actually IN the situation, and then I am always surprised.

I think "got there first" is a fine sentiment as long as you aren't dealing with a NEED and I'm sorry, but I think the little ones need some extra care and compassion. I don't care if they're mine or someone else's.

And you often can't tell when you're in a line boarding a bus jsut how crowded it actually will be.

Now I just know not to expect it. I still am pleased when I do see concern for other people in action - women with children, the elderly, small children, the disabled or injured. I just think "hey lady, you should have rented a car if you wanted a seat" or "if you bring your kids on your vacation, that's your problem" are a pretty sad reflection on our society.

ITA with the words I highlighted.

You can argue until you're blue in the face and it won't change anyone's mind. It is a simplistic argument to say "wait for the next bus" or "wait until your kids are older" or "rent a car". I feel sorry for those with this mentality and am glad that my DW and I agree that we will do our best to raise our children to not have this attitude. If they do, they we will consider ourselves at having to have failed as parents even if they are "successful" in their chosen careers.

Honestly, this thread is one of the many reasons why we will rent a car from now on. We made the huge mistake of using Disney transportation on our last trip. In addition to this issue, we dealt with long waits for buses, lack of courtesy at the DTD bus stop, and finding most buses full already as we were the second or third stop.

I have never heard such a recording. If it's there, it must be brand new. I know some seats are labeled "reserved" for wheelchair bound or ECV guests, but I've never seen anything about elderly or pregnant women or kids.

How do you define elderly? Or pregnant for that matter? Or those who otherwise need it? If I'm 2 months pregnant, can I demand a seat?

The recording wasn't played every time. I heard it mostly on the older buses that don't have the new scrolling announcement board. Just because it isn't played everytime doesn't mean it's not common sense. Someone at Disney at one time felt it was important enough to state.

Do you really need a written policy to know who needs a seat and who doesn't? Do you work for the government or in a large bureaucracy where common sense can't be applied to a given situation?

I don't recall anyone ever "demanding" a seat because of their situation. Quite the opposite, those that stand do so humbly and without complaint. They know not to expect a seat, even if they know if someone did, it would be quite nice or courteous. I find it amusing that many on this board presume that a parent standing with a sleeping child presumes that they deserve a seat. I think that those who don't think a parent with a sleeping child deserves a seat are the ones who are presumptuous. Those standing do so because they know it's part of being a parent. It's usually those sitting that think they're being given the evil eye because they feel guilty for sitting knowing someone else is struggling. (even though it's obviously that person's own fault they are struggling).

Well, this is it on this thread for me. This topic has been discussed ad naseum and I don't think anyone will change their mind on this topic. This is one of those topics that is as akin to a heated political discussion as you can get on the DIS.

 

[mbanks21]

I think its insensitive to say that just because someone is male and 18-35 they dont deserve to have a seat. Im 27 and I have 3 slipped discs in my spine and take painkillers and anti-inflammatory pills otherwise I cant get up. Should I give up my seat to a perfectly healthy woman?

 

[nyfinfan]

On our trip in August I gave up my seat many times for kids. It doesn't bother me in the least. I saw lots of men sitting in their seats while women stood. I couldn't do that. At least offer your seat even if they turn it down.

One late night on the monorail after Wishes, we get on and their are 3 people spread out on a bench with all their bags on the seat and they just sit there while my kids (8 and 6) are standing there. I have to ask them to put their stuff on the floor and move together so my kids could sit. I can't imagine being that clueless about your surroundings. After they moved their was enough room for my wife and kids and no one was squeezed together. I found it absurd that I even had to ask them.

 

[Bagheera23608]

WOW, this thread had degraded quickly. Some of my best memories are of when my kids were young at WDW. My youngest had his first haircut at the Harmony Barbershop. My oldest two were 5 and 3 on their first visit and were in awe of everything at WDW. Nothing in the world can replace those memories that my wife and I have of those visits with our young kids!! It is harsh of you to suggest that you should wait until your kids are old enough to remember it. What about the parents memories?

BTW -- I'm glad you're getting soft in your old age and would consider giving up a seat to a parent holding a sleeping child. For a moment, I did think you were simply rude.

Maybe it's not about your memories? Maybe it's about your kids and their trip? Lugging around all the stuff little ones need AND the little ones themselves is asking ALOT of everyone involved; parents, kids and perfect strangers. Wearing the kids out to utter exhaustion and therefore having to tote him or her on the bus isn't anybodies idea of a good time. Since I enjoy standing on the bus (I think it's fun, go figure) I don't mind giving up my seat. And I'm one of the most polite people I know. I was raised in the South myself. We all have to live with the choices we make. You chose to take your kids to the parks when they were very small, you choose to deal with busses, etc. I choose to give up my seat to someone who needs it if I want. As someone mentioned, it's not about gender - it's about need.