Childless vs family with children

[ticktock]

To OP, just wanted to say a BIG THANK YOU! to you and you DH for his service and sacrifice, I appreciate it greatly.

My DH is a firefighter, so he has to work this Christmas too. DS (who still believes in Santa) said "I'll just get up really early, before Daddy goes to work, and he can see me open my presents" So we'll all be up at 5:00 am.

You usually get to sleep later then 5? Lucky.

I agree with Russian in Kansas, Christmas is really important for KIDS. Now I have more Xmas decorations then anyone I know. The largest closet in my house is full of Xmas stuff not clothes, I love Christmas. But I would delay my celebrations to let a parent with kids spend their Christmas together. Sorry I just think kids deserve special treatment in this area. Remember the way we celebrate Christmas was invented by the Victorians for children. Before then christians marked Jesus's birth with fasting and prayer. Adult fun, woohoo.

As for fundraisers I give to no one. Not even my DS. I will donate cash to his Boy Scout troop or his school for specific needs but I don't give to the BSA or county school system. I don't know where that money is going and probably wouldn't approve if I did. I also don't need any tacky knickknacks or over priced wrapping paper. Thanks but NO.

 

[disbridemimi]

I feel your pain. Of course I understand people with children need to leave early for appointments and when they get sick at school etc, but giving me a crappy shift because I do not have children is not fair at all. An d I always trade with people on halloween etc so they can take their kids out.

Back in 2001, I actually got a letter from an employer stating that they went ahead an scheduled all of us "single" people for Christmas eve, Christmas and Thanksgiving so that people with families could enjoy the holiday. I had to file a grievance with the Union to get my holidays back, as we had a rotation system and the people who had UNFAIRLY gotten those holidays off didn't speak to me for months since "I" made them have to work on Chrismtas even though with the rotation, it was their holiday to work!!They knew that before the schedule came out! So it made me look like the bad guy. It still makes me mad. Not to mention that I always traded shifts with people when they asked, and I stopped doing that with those that felt I SHOULD work on the holidays. Just because I have no children does not mean that i do not celebrate Christmas with my family, nieces and nephews!

The company blamed it all on a new scheduler. How could anyone think that is ok?

 

[ticktock]

Just wanted to add I think it is overkill asking your DH to work Xmas eve AND day. One or the other should be more then sufficient. I would also expect those who benefit from him working holidays to recipricate in some fashion but I still think holidays are for kids.

 

[DVC Sadie]

Don't count on other people recipricating after you have children.

I am retired AF and worked in the hospital (mental health ward) which had to be covered 24/7.

When I was stationed overseas I had no problem volunteering to work Christmas so others who had children could take their extended leave usually to go stateside to visit family.

When I was stateside the requests I received to work Christmas (and other holidays) was constant and I did swap out until I had my own child.

Let me just say that the requests never stopped and some of the comments were just rude, such as; "Well your baby is only 2months old (or 14 months old) and won't remember his 1st (2nd) Christmas anyway so you can switch, or I have 3, 4 or 5 kids who will be so disappointed if I'm not there on Christmas.

Needless to say that after the response they received from me they did not ask again. Sometimes other people mistake a person's kindness for weakness, and that is a reality.

My best to you and your DH in your endeavors.

ETA: As for all of the fundraisers I would just say no, so that way no one is offended. It does help keep the peace in the long run.

 

[C.Ann]

No - you are not less important.. You are a "family" too..

When my DD was still working, she worked in a 24/7 residential facility - group home for troubled teenage girls.. My DD has one child - many of her staff had no children.. However, they always worked out some kind of "rotation" so that it was fair for everyone.. My DD would work Christmas Eve so she would have Christmas Day off - or vice versa.. She ALWAYS worked New Year's Eve because she and her DH aren't "party" people.. She would work one Thanksgiving and the following year one of her staff would.. One year they worked it out so that each person only worked a 2-hour shift on Christmas Day..

It's a matter of being fair - to everyone - with or without children.. Does your DH have the option of suggesting anything like this?

Love your idea about the $20 first come, first serve purchase..

 

[MickeySP]

I agree it sucks without some reciprocity at some point.

Here is my take, I am now the parent of a grown child (25), when he was in Santa, Easter Bunny etc mode alot of people with older or no kids covered me so I could have the holidays with him. Now 20 years later I am paying it forward. I have worked Xmas, Xmas Eve, even on kids birthdays so Mom or Dad can enjoy their child.

You say you are working on it, so keep in mind that the karma/good deed you do now may be rewarded in the long run. We don't always get payback quickly but I do believe you will when you need it.

 

[NHdisneylover]

You do count and should count Of course, so do the kids (and I know you know that and believe that too--not saying you do not at all).

My dad was a DJ. He ALWAYS worked every holiday (often double or triple shifts--a standard DJ shift being 4-5 hours) when I was little. I routienly got up at 4:00 in the morning so I could see waht Santa brought while he was there to watch the joy in my little face. He made it work because he had to and it was okay. That said, by the time I was a teen he was working at a station with a policy allowing each DJ to take off the day for one of the three winter holidays (Thanksgiving, New Years or Christmas). There was a system where a combination of seniority and "priority of shift (morning drive DJs being highest) decided who got to pick first. 1/3 of the jocks got each holiday. By then he was top of the list (having the most seniority and being the morning drive DJ), but I was well past the Santa stage. He figured it is always good to be kind so he ALWAYS took Thanksgiving to leave Christmas for the parents and New Years for the singel partiers. People really appreiciated this and he still got his day off. Actually, he was able to negotiate a bit and get the entire long weekend off (grateful paretns and party goers were happy to fill in a little extra Thanksgiving weekend to have their special days left available) and then Thanksgiving became our family's big holiday for those years. I do think he would have been less likely to be accomidating if it had been expected and taken for granted.

As far as fundraisers--I promise you they annoy the heck out of everyone. really they do. I agree that if you have nieces and nephews the easiest thing to do is jsut say you already bought from them. Personally I would jsut say no thank you and if they say something else (like you have plenty of money) look totally shocked at their rudeness and come up with something you are saving for "actually we are saving up to have children if you MUST know."

 

[punkin]

Different people have different needs and it is nice if they cover for each other. My husband used to work Christmas every single year. He also came in on Easter Sunday if necessary. We are Jewish and he did not care. However, his coworkers better not expect him in on Yom Kippur even if the whole world comes crashing down.

If your H's "higher ups" expect him to do all the covering, then it is not fair and he should say something. I am sure you had reasons to choose not to have children. It is not your responsibility to continually "subsidize" people who made other choices. It is not a child/childless thing. It is a respect thing.

 

[nicolita3]

I get that all the time at work, "oh you can cover for so and so since you have no kids, halloween is for kids anyways or christmas is mainly for kids blah, blah, blah" I hate the discrimination that people give to childless couples. Whenever they try to get me to work holidays or thing like that now I tell them that yeah I dont have kids but I am someones child and they are looking forward to me attending the holiday event. It does suck being a childless couple at work because some people just think they are better than you.

 

[NHdisneylover]

punkin said it perfectly

I came back to post what I have actually done about fundraisers (except GS cookies--I ALWAYS bought tons of those from my DD and sent at least one box from any troop who asked to soldiers overseas--if a troop was not participating in that, well then I just said sorry I already bought from DD, I have also occasionally bought magazines or oher items that I wanted to buy anyway). I tell the solicitor that I do not need/want whatever they are selling but like to help organizations and ask the name and address of where I can send a direct donation check to. A few people tell me and I do send a small check (usually $5 and it is usually more than the school/organization would have made from my purchase otherwise). Most people do not tell me. They tend to say something about how they will have to find out and then "forget" about it. I suspect most people really want their kids to get some prize for top sales and are not that concerned about the actual fundraising. I do not think it is my job to make sure little Johnny has more sales than little Julie whose parents do not solicit for her or who does not have a big family to ask, etc.

 

[castleview]

As in any workplace situation, what goes around comes around. You are the better people and will be rewarded eventually. I used to get some lousy hours and workload (pre-kids) because the other woman in the office was a single mom with an absent ex. Don't get me wrong, I didn't mind making things more convenient for her at all. But often, she took advantage of it and palmed extra work off on me. I wanted to scream "It's not my fault, you married a loser crack head and have no one to help you with your kid!"...truth, be told I might have said that when she was out of listening range.

 

[LuvOrlando]

People stink. I do have kids so the offenses I get aren't exactly the same but as a SAHM I get lots of similar nonsense because my time is somehow up for grabs. People say and do mean things all the time. My personal favorite are the digs over my education being 'wasted'. I don't get why anyone cares about other people's business anyway

 

[NotUrsula]

When this comes up I always remember a situation that happened to me back in 1993. I was managing a public library at the time, and while I was married, we were still childless. I also live nearly 900 miles from my nearest family, though DH's family is local here. My children's librarian at the time was older than I was, and she had five children who ranged in age from 5 to 15. Both her husband's family and hers were local -- no one in her extended family lived more than an hour's drive away.

I had been managing the library for 3 years at that point. For the previous two years I'd taken the supervisory duty for Xmas eve and Dec. 26th, letting her take the week off so that she could "be with her family." (Those are traditionally two HUGELY busy days for public libraries because people drop off their kids while they shop, which is another issue entirely . Xmas Day we were naturally closed.)

In 93' one of my nieces was scheduled to be married on Dec. 28th; I was standing in the wedding and a major family reunion was being held for the occasion. I put a request in with my director in August for Xmas week off and was granted it, so when November rolled around and my staff started putting in their leave requests, I told them that I would not be around to cover Xmas week because I was travelling out of town, and that the 2 senior people would have to trade off supervisory duty to cover the week this year: I gave them the opportunity to settle it themselves and let me know who was taking which days. (The reference librarian was also married but childless, and a year or two younger than me, and her family was also local.)

The children's librarian threw the hissy fit of all time and went to the Director when I refused to sacrifice my own leave so that she could "be with her family" over the entire Christmas week. I had to point out that I had been unable to spend holidays with my family AT ALL for 3 years because of her previous leave requests, and it had been nearly a year since I'd been able to visit my own mother, who was 80 years old and unable to travel. When I asked my employee what family she would be seeing over the holiday, she told me she was speaking of her children. Her children, who she spent at least 12 hours with every single day of the year? Sorry, no -- I'm not backing down for that.

We ALL have families, and no one's desire to be with theirs automatically trumps anyone else's. My personal feeling is that if leave and school schedules mean that the only time that a person will have enough off days to travel to see extended family, then that person deserves some consideration for that, not necessarily every year, but in turns. My kids won't be scarred for life if they open some gifts at 6 pm instead of 6 am, but an elderly parent who hasn't seen an adult child in a full year might not have a lot of Christmases left. My mother saw my son ONCE, on Christmas Eve of 1997, after we drove 12 hours to get there when he was 7 months old. She suddenly came down with pneumonia the next day and was dead on December 29th.

So, my opinion? It's nice to be able to take the shift if you don't have special plans of your own, but if you do want to make plans, stand your ground at least some of the time. Your family is just as important as theirs is, even if everyone is an adult.

 

[alizesmom]

In your situation you deserve the time together more than a lot of others. Having children is not a reason to demand special priveleges. As to the fundraising, I don't think the kids are learning anything when mom or dad does all of the work. I will not buy from a parent.

 

[bumbershoot]

What makes it worse is that we actually WANT to have kids, but are having difficulties, so it's totally a double punishment when they say things like "you don't have kids, you don't understand."

I can't claim I totally understand, but I get the "you only have one, you don't understand", but if it had been up to us, we would have had at least 2 more by now... It sucks.

NHdisneylover I'm now reading your blog.


OP...if your hubby wants to give up his time, that's great. But try to help him not feel guilty about it if he does NOT want to give it up.

When I was single and working, even when I was engaged and working, we didn't have a problem giving up holidays, but that's mainly b/c we didn't care about the holidays. DH's family "celebrated" xmas on the 26th once, and it didn't matter, b/c they are all Buddhist, but celebrated xmas as an homage to (now late) FIL's Catholic background. Hubby and I have thought for *years* now that we should just celebrate Yule a few days after the 25th, so we could buy stuff in the big post-holidays sales and save quite a few bucks. The dates just don't matter.

And if some families with kids benefited, that was great, but we didn't sacrifice ANYTHING from our OWN family, even when our family was just the two of us.

Even now hubby will still work some holidays that he wouldn't normally, just b/c the extra money is nice and we're flexible. But if we were NOT flexible, unless we were desperate for the money, he likely wouldn't.

Doing things first come first serve, or in a proper rotation, is the only fair way to do things.

Try to help him not feel guilty. I mean, when you guys have kids, are you planning to ask childfree people to cover for you? No, I didn't think so. You don't seem to be that type of people. So definitely toss the "maybe others will reciprocate in the future" thought, b/c you probably would never ask the question.


As for fundraisers...we homeschool and always planned to, so the taxes that our landlady pays with our rent (her mortgage) payment go towards something we don't use already. I don't feel the need to cover the shortcomings and bad budgeting of the schools by buying silly things. If I felt moved to donate to a school, I'd just give cash, and lose the middleman.

I did once buy two things...it took about 4 months for the kid to get them to me. I bought them because I wanted the items (first aid flip chart that came in handy when DS got burned, and a recipe box), not because I wanted to get a few pennies to his school. I turned down every other kid who came by. I feel for the kids, but I don't want to buy into such a flawed system, just so a kid can win a competition.

Obviously, I would want you to not feel guilty about not doing the fundraising stuff (unless you truly want the items), either.

 

[bigbabyblues]

To OP, just wanted to say a BIG THANK YOU! to you and you DH for his service and sacrifice, I appreciate it greatly.

My DH is a firefighter, so he has to work this Christmas too. DS (who still believes in Santa) said "I'll just get up really early, before Daddy goes to work, and he can see me open my presents" So we'll all be up at 5:00 am.

My DH is a paramedic and he had to work Christmas last year. Santa knew about that, and he came a night early last year, with a note to explain. Just an idea.....

Tina, I have children, but I would not expect someone else to constantly make accommodations for me because of it.

 

[Nik's Mom]

Tina, I'm sorry that you and your dh are having difficulty getting pregnant. I will say a prayer for you both.

It's totally not right that people expect you to fork out money because you don't have children. It sounds like the people around you are being thoughtless and rude. If you do have the money to give, then feel free to contribute. But don't feel obligated to, and don't make then pressure you either. That isn't right.